Any jazzers on here?

[Never_Scurred]

Four years ago I decided I wanted to learn to play an instrument (for real, this time), so I quit school, took my tuition reimbursement check and bought a guitar and lessons from this hippie folk music dude. After a year, I realized I hated folk music and loved jazz so I told my instructor to go kick rocks and began studying music theory, classical piano and jazz improv at the local community college. Since then, my life has been consumed with the pursuit of musicianship. I don't even touch my shmups anymore, when I'm not at work, I'm clocking at least 3 hours a day with this damn Real Book and some Grant Green records. But heres the rub, though. In my local music scene, nearly all of the jazz musicians 40 and under have either went to a four-year university or been playing since before puberty. Can a late starter hope to advance in this artform or what? I'm not looking to be some super technical cat, I just wanna be able to play some good solo jazz guitar and jam with other musicians. I've been trying to get out there and mix it up with these jazz cats, but most of them be on some fuckboy shit if you didn't go to _______ University or know this guy or that guy. Damn, how do I advance if I can't get no one to play with?

[rancor]

You're gonna want to talk to this dude. From what I understand, he's quite good and in the scene pretty deep.

[Eaglet]

I used to play a lot of jazz guitar.
My high school program was probably the most serious one in Sweden for jazz musicians and did som semi-pro stuff after that. Mostly just café gigs with people i'd gotten to know.
Nowadays i just play for fun and write my own stuff which tends to be on the heavier side.
Improvising is super fun though.
The best way i found of improving was just playing with good musicians (which in your case might be hard) and finding some sort of mentor with a lot of experience to show you their perspective on improvisation, chords and harmony. It's alot easier to see what you yourself are doing wrong when you're shown someones own successful way of doing it.
Otherwise just work on your hearing with your instrument so you're able to immediately (or with as little lag as possible) transform your own "heard" ideas into sounds coming out of your guitar.
Aside from that, basic stuff like embracing the mistakes you do (because they will be made) and roll with them instead of freezing up. Use that "out" note as a startup to a phrase leading back into your pocket.
The results are usually pretty interesting.

[moh]

been playing saxophone for about a decade now, and guitar for about 6 years. Jazz guitar is a ton of fun to play alone, since you can comp chords + melody all by yourself. Playing sax alone is bullshit, you definitely need that accompaniment (piano, percussion, upright bass).

all in all, if you're sticking with guitar, you can tell the jazz scene to go fuck themselves, go sit in your room and write some classic shit.

[jonny5]

been playing saxophone for about a decade now, and guitar for about 6 years. Jazz guitar is a ton of fun to play alone, since you can comp chords + melody all by yourself. Playing sax alone is bullshit, you definitely need that accompaniment (piano, percussion, upright bass).

all in all, if you're sticking with guitar, you can tell the jazz scene to go fuck themselves, go sit in your room and write some classic shit.

How many times you have been to my house and you never mentioned you play?

Back on topic - I do 30 minutes of jazzercise every morning

[Never_Scurred]

Just finished up a lesson. We did a few choruses of Take the "A" Train, which I kinda had under control until I had to start comping...and my fingers stopped cooperating on a few of them chords. Back to the 'shed. Started Icarus, my teacher showed me some fingerstyle stuff to handle the chords and we went over rootless voicings. Damn, how do jazz guys remember all this stuff to be able to do it every key? Shit.

[Some-Mist]

I don't play jazz myself - I only played guitar for about 7 years self-taught and spent a year playing with a local traveling death metal band lol. But from how I see it.. if you really wanted, you could easily self-teach yourself to get deeper in the scene. granted they've been playing for a long time, but for instance... Tymon Kruidenier is primarily self-taught. he's one of my current favorite modern jazz/jazz fusion guitarist behind allan holdsworth (not so modern) and jonathan kreisberg. I'm not 100% sure, but I think allan holdsworth is self-taught too.

I'm sure that's not really the style you're looking to play, but there's a lot of great resources on the internet that you can use to help self-teach yourself in any genre/style. many guitarists like Tymon actually do web lessons. that's also probably why the established guys are such dicks... because they paid huge money (not worth it imo) to go to these schools and now they have to compete with someone who didn't have to sacrifice as much.

school would definitely help but imo isn't required.

[moh]

been playing saxophone for about a decade now, and guitar for about 6 years. Jazz guitar is a ton of fun to play alone, since you can comp chords + melody all by yourself. Playing sax alone is bullshit, you definitely need that accompaniment (piano, percussion, upright bass).

all in all, if you're sticking with guitar, you can tell the jazz scene to go fuck themselves, go sit in your room and write some classic shit.

How many times you have been to my house and you never mentioned you play?

Back on topic - I do 30 minutes of jazzercise every morning

The very first day I met you, I told you .____.

[beatsgo]

Can a late starter hope to advance in this artform or what? I'm not looking to be some super technical cat, I just wanna be able to play some good solo jazz guitar and jam with other musicians. I've been trying to get out there and mix it up with these jazz cats, but most of them be on some fuckboy shit if you didn't go to _______ University or know this guy or that guy. Damn, how do I advance if I can't get no one to play with?

These threads will make you feel better. My 2 cent with playing jazz: listen to a lot of jazz (appreciation), play a lot of it (discipline), and experiment at will (fun). It's never too late to learn, it's all about time, effort, and heart. I started playing a little bit of jazz on drums when I was 19 and it took awhile to grasp it, but now I can do it in my sleep. I'm in the same boat with you but with piano, but I know I can learn how to comp properly.

I'll leave this about playing wrong notes by the great Victor Wooten

[jonny5]

been playing saxophone for about a decade now, and guitar for about 6 years. Jazz guitar is a ton of fun to play alone, since you can comp chords + melody all by yourself. Playing sax alone is bullshit, you definitely need that accompaniment (piano, percussion, upright bass).

all in all, if you're sticking with guitar, you can tell the jazz scene to go fuck themselves, go sit in your room and write some classic shit.

How many times you have been to my house and you never mentioned you play?

Back on topic - I do 30 minutes of jazzercise every morning

The very first day I met you, I told you .____.

The moral of this story is I drink too much and don't jazzercise enough.

[moh]

pulled the words out of my mouth!

neither of those things are going to change anytime soon though

[pestro87]

I used to play a lot of jazz guitar.
My high school program was probably the most serious one in Sweden for jazz musicians and did som semi-pro stuff after that. Mostly just café gigs with people i'd gotten to know.
Nowadays i just play for fun and write my own stuff which tends to be on the heavier side.
Improvising is super fun though.
The best way i found of improving was just playing with good musicians (which in your case might be hard) and finding some sort of mentor with a lot of experience to show you their perspective on improvisation, chords and harmony. It's alot easier to see what you yourself are doing wrong when you're shown someones own successful way of doing it.
Otherwise just work on your hearing with your instrument so you're able to immediately (or with as little lag as possible) transform your own "heard" ideas into sounds coming out of your guitar.
Aside from that, basic stuff like embracing the mistakes you do (because they will be made) and roll with them instead of freezing up. Use that "out" note as a startup to a phrase leading back into your pocket.
The results are usually pretty interesting.

Bump for an amazing guitar player right here! You know, it must have been ~8 years ago that we did that gig at Tekniska, right? Geez man, time flies Also, dude, you missed the gig that me and Linus did with Guthrie Govan at Klubben!

[jasoncslaughter]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything Eaglet and beatsgo said. Listen, listen, listen, and keep shedding. Learning how to go with "wrong" notes is also something to practice (Miles Davis made a whole career of this). Good players have spent years mastering their craft. I didn't start playing jazz until I was 22, and I was learning my current instrument at the same time, so I definitely understand the feeling of trying to catch up quickly. And playing with other people is a must - if you're just on your own, it's easy to get stuck in a rut. I'm sure there are lots of jams in St. Louis, so just go to as many as you can until you find people you get along with.

As far as dealing with assholes, don't let it get to you too much. When I was starting out in Vegas, I got called for a nightly big band gig, and the first night I showed up, everyone in the band was talking shit to me the entire time. I left the show really pissed off and didn't want to go back, but I did, and the second night everyone treated me like I was an old friend. After the show, I basically asked everyone what the hell was going on the first night, and they said they just wanted to make sure I could handle the pressure. While I don't condone this kind of immature behavior, it still happens quite a bit, so just try to do your thing the best you can and don't get discouraged.

Also, when practicing on your own, I'd recommend using some sort of backing track - either Band in a Box or Smart Music, or you can usually find backing tracks for standards on YouTube. One of the important things to learn is how to hang on when the rhythm section isn't going to wait for you.

Anyhow, best of luck to you, and it's great to see that there are some other jazz players on here!

[BubbaMc]

I've never understood Jazz, don't think I ever will. I just don't think my diatonic ear can handle it.

Instrumental rock, metal and classical guitar though, that's my bag

Full respect though - just keep shedding as already mentioned, and record everything!

[Eaglet]

Bump for an amazing guitar player right here! You know, it must have been ~8 years ago that we did that gig at Tekniska, right? Geez man, time flies Also, dude, you missed the gig that me and Linus did with Guthrie Govan at Klubben!

Thanks dude!
Yeah, i seem to remember it as the autumn of 2006? Don't remember that much from the gig aside from being sick as a dog.
Yeah i know! Probably one of the worst mistakes i've done. Seeing you both play with Guthrie would have been absolutely amazing. Do you still keep in touch?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wasn't jazz in the US supposed to be dead in the water? The musicians living in Scandinavia and all that.

[beatsgo]

I wouldn't say it's dead, it adapted and evolved to incorporate other styles of music. The traditionally sense of jazz (swing feel) music is still there, but the swung/feel is preferred more often. The difference from other genres is applying concepts of comping and improv are still applicable, though you can argue more musicians are doing this in everthing.

Or you can see it this way: it went underground.

[Some-Mist]

Wasn't jazz in the US supposed to be dead in the water? The musicians living in Scandinavia and all that.

I know he's critically acclaimed and well known, but Jonathan Kreisberg (41 years old) that I mentioned before is still highly active in terms of releasing new material and performing with his quintet. I wouldn't doubt that he's pretty much dominating the US jazz scene.

also - mentioned by other users, jazz in the US is more or less incorporated into other genres right now with a more modern approach. personally, I still prefer to listen to modern jazz bands from outside the US. I went and saw Jaga Jazzist (Norway) in Chicago a couple years ago and it blew me away. I've also been waiting to see mouse on the keys (japan).

[BubbaMc]

Bump for an amazing guitar player right here! You know, it must have been ~8 years ago that we did that gig at Tekniska, right? Geez man, time flies Also, dude, you missed the gig that me and Linus did with Guthrie Govan at Klubben!

You've played with Guthrie?

Respect.

[jasoncslaughter]

I've never understood Jazz, don't think I ever will. I just don't think my diatonic ear can handle it.

Instrumental rock, metal and classical guitar though, that's my bag

Full respect though - just keep shedding as already mentioned, and record everything!

It might just be that you haven't found any jazz that resonates with you. Off the top of my head, I'd recommend checking out Charlie Hunter, Chris Potter, and the Vienna Art Orchestra (Swing and Affairs is a good one to start with).

Recording things is a great piece of advice. I still record myself on a regular basis, and it's always a humbling experience.

As far as jazz being dead, as a musicologist I'd like to point out that most jazz was never that popular (there are a few notable exceptions). What generally happens (this is true in all forms of music) is that the best music survives, while the music that is most popular at any given point is usually forgotten in a generation or two. Of course this isn't always the case, but it's true more often than not. I'm actually doing my dissertation on contemporary big bands, and although big bands supposedly died in the late 1940's, there are more active big bands today playing for more people than there ever have been, and the musical styles incorporated into modern big band tunes include almost anything you could imagine.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are plenty of people who support good music (in all genres), and while pop stars may sell more records for a short time based on publicity stunts and image, good music will survive. So get out there, make music, support music, and enjoy it!

[Mischief Maker]

Am I the only one who sees the word "jazzer" and interprets it as something unbelievably filthy?

[pestro87]

@OP I play drums so I don't have much to add in terms of guitar playing but maybe you'll find some of these tips useful:

- Control is key. Start slow and take your time with each rudiment. As soon as you feel that you start to strain/force your muscles, it's time to step back and decrease the BPM on your metronome. One typically wants to see the fruits of your labour but getting good takes time and you can achieve a lot by having realistic goals, patience and dedication.
- Don't spend too much time practicing things that you already know very well, instead, analyze what you need to get better at in order to achieve your goals and practice those things. Also, be creative. For example, instead of practicing the same rudiment over and over again, try practicing it backwards. Practicing rudiments is like building up a vocabulary.
- Pay attention to ergonomics and physics. Make sure that you move with your body and not against it (if that makes any sense). Also, try to reduce unnecessary movements. The best way to do this is to record a training session on film, watch it and analyze it.
- Capture your training sessions on audio every once in a while. Listen to them and analyze them.
- Make sure that you can play in-time over extended periods of time at different BPMs without slowly increasing/decreasing the tempo or rush certain sections. If you notice that you rush certain sections then you need to step back and practice those with a metronome. Also, make sure that you don't change the tempo when you play louder/softer.

There's a lot more that can be said about practicing technique but most of the things that I can think of are specific to drums so I won't get into those.

Other than that, pretty much everything that Eaglet and jasoncslaughter said. I also can't stress enough how important it is to find a good mentor. Keep in mind that a good mentor is no guarantee to success - you are the one who will have to put in the countless hours of practice - but a good mentor can make sure that you are on the right path. Also, try to watch as many instructional videos as you can by good musicians and analyze them and practice with them. Everyone has their own playing style and everyone puts more/less emphasize on certain aspects so it's good to get input from different people.

Bump for an amazing guitar player right here! You know, it must have been ~8 years ago that we did that gig at Tekniska, right? Geez man, time flies Also, dude, you missed the gig that me and Linus did with Guthrie Govan at Klubben!

Thanks dude!
Yeah, i seem to remember it as the autumn of 2006? Don't remember that much from the gig aside from being sick as a dog.
Yeah i know! Probably one of the worst mistakes i've done. Seeing you both play with Guthrie would have been absolutely amazing. Do you still keep in touch?

It's all good man I didn't keep in touch with Guthrie (I probably should have, lol) but I kept in touch with Linus pretty frequently up until I moved to Canada (we also did a SFII meetup right before I left).

You've played with Guthrie?

Respect.

Thanks man It was a crazy experience but it was fun. I had two weeks to learn ~10 songs so I basically locked myself up in a cave and practiced 24/7.