NESRGB board available now

[eightbitminiboss]

are you using composite video as your sync? try the CS pad instead.

Is CS regarded to be better then?

CS# is just PPUV through an EL1881 as Tim mentioned earlier in this thread. Unfortunately the XRGB-mini doesn't work well with CS# on the second batch of kits, so PPUV is actually best. Using luma (Y) for sync causes other problems.

If you're using an unshielded cable, then sure, you'll likely get artifacts when using composite video as sync!

It does? I'm on luma for sync and I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary.

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, sorry if this has been covered already, but 80 pages is too many to read them all. Anyhow, I was looking at the instructions for mixing in Famicom audio by cr4zymanz0r on p.23, which says to run the NESRGB audio output (point O) and the Famicom audio from the expansion slot pin 40 both through 1.2k resistors and then connected together.

Is this still the accepted method? Has anyone confirmed that these are the exact resistor values for the correct audio balance?

I'll be using real famicom carts with a 60-72 pin adapter (straight connection from Famicom pin 46 to NES pin 18, also as instructed by cr4zymanz0r on p.23).

[Skips]

are you using composite video as your sync? try the CS pad instead.

Is CS regarded to be better then?

CS# is just PPUV through an EL1881 as Tim mentioned earlier in this thread. Unfortunately the XRGB-mini doesn't work well with CS# on the second batch of kits, so PPUV is actually best. Using luma (Y) for sync causes other problems.

If you're using an unshielded cable, then sure, you'll likely get artifacts when using composite video as sync!

I just did an RGB mod a month ago for a client that is currently using an XRGB Mini and a 2nd batch PCB. I wired sync using CS# and It is working flawlessly on his XRGB-mini (on the most recent firmware). He did not even have to adjust the XRGB out of the box to get it working with the NES (which I think came with firmware 1.08 or 07). He has no issues, no funny sync problems. The picture is 100% stable with no problems and looks great.

[mickcris]

I just did an RGB mod a month ago for a client that is currently using an XRGB Mini and a 2nd batch PCB. I wired sync using CS# and It is working flawlessly on his XRGB-mini (on the most recent firmware). He did not even have to adjust the XRGB out of the box to get it working with the NES (which I think came with firmware 1.08 or 07). He has no issues, no funny sync problems. The picture is 100% stable with no problems and looks great.

It only seems to be on some boards or an issue with some consoles. Both keropi and I have the issue on our AV Famicoms:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49677

[keropi]

^ yes I confirm that CS# does not work for me with the framemeister. I really think it's because of the famicomAV revision or something...

[Shining]

Keropi and mickcris, could you post your pcb board revisions of your AV Famicoms? I think there are two known revisions of the AV Famicom: HVCN-CPU-01 and -02. Here's a comparison pic snagged from nfggames-com:

"The only things I notice are some changed transistors an added electrolytic cap at C14 (6.3V 47μF) along with some minor cosmetic changes." /Salamander

[Skips]

I have tried both revisions of the AV Famicom with the XRGB mini and they both worked fine using the CS# pin for sync. Both PCB's had the second run of the kits in them. If something is not working it could be your NES RGB Kit or your XRGB Mini/Specific setup. Both revisions of the AV Famicom worked fine with two different XRGB minis. I even wired Phonedork's first run PCB this way in his AV Famicom and it worked as well.

[mickcris]

Not sure what revision mine is, but if Skips did both then its maybe not an issue. I am not at home right now but will try to pull it apart soon to check. Like I said in the other thread though, my 1st batch board installed in a NES toploader works fine with CS#. Both of my boards were installed by game-tech-us so I doubt it is an installation issue.

[mvsfan]

are people ONLY having this problem on A/V famicoms?

Ive wired a nes toploader and two frontloaders using composite sync and theyve worked fine.

never done a famicom.

might be a good reason for me to consider putting in that on on on switch in the frontloaders though.

that way if someone gets one and it doesnt work he can just flip the switch for a different type of sync.

[mickcris]

are people ONLY having this problem on A/V famicoms?

Ive wired a nes toploader and two frontloaders using composite sync and theyve worked fine.

never done a famicom.

might be a good reason for me to consider putting in that on on on switch in the frontloaders though.

that way if someone gets one and it doesnt work he can just flip the switch for a different type of sync.

AFAIK it's only keropi and I that have the sync issue (It may be more widespread but not everyone tries using CS# with an xrgb-mini). My XRGB mini works fine with everything else I own. Both my Toploader NES and AV Famicom have both CS# and composite video available from the multi out so I have just been using composite video with the AV famicom and not really given it much more thought.

[mvsfan]

rcade: connect pin 9 on the expansion port of the frontloader (or pin 51 on the cart slot in a toploader) to a wire. connect the wire to one leg of a 41k ohm resistor and solder the other leg of the resistor through the hole below the O pad it makes it easier. then hook a wire to the O pad and connect that to your audio connector (or multiout) along with a ground.

then your console is ready for expansion audio.

you will also have to modify your fla cart or famicom adapter.

[ApolloBoy]

AFAIK it's only keropi and I that have the sync issue

Do you guys have sync strippers in your SCART adapters?

[sazyario]

Why not feed PPUV into the sync pin and the NESRGB encoded composite to the composite pin?
The mini can handle using composite as sync. That was fixed in a fw upgrade a while ago.

[mickcris]

AFAIK it's only keropi and I that have the sync issue

Do you guys have sync strippers in your SCART adapters?

I don't use a sync stripper.

I just pulled my shell off and its an HVCN-CPU-02 that has the cs# issue. Here is a pic of the console:

[keropi]

AFAIK it's only keropi and I that have the sync issue

Do you guys have sync strippers in your SCART adapters?

No sync stripper, several pages back viletim gave me instructions to bypass the nesrgb's onboard stripper and build a repacement using the classic LM1881 chip, it made no difference in my setup.
I just use V as sync (nesrgb's composite) and it works fine.

[mvsfan]

when i did my first nesrgb i was going to use a turned pin socket, but i noticed that the socket was a little loose for the pins on the ppu. i could pull it out real easy although matching pin headers were very snug when plugged into it.

i soldered it in instead cause i didnt have another socket.

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, sorry if this has been covered already, but 80 pages is too many to read them all. Anyhow, I was looking at the instructions for mixing in Famicom audio by cr4zymanz0r on p.23, which says to run the NESRGB audio output (point O) and the Famicom audio from the expansion slot pin 40 both through 1.2k resistors and then connected together.

Is this still the accepted method? Has anyone confirmed that these are the exact resistor values for the correct audio balance?

I'll be using real famicom carts with a 60-72 pin adapter (straight connection from Famicom pin 46 to NES pin 18, also as instructed by cr4zymanz0r on p.23).

rcade: connect pin 9 on the expansion port of the frontloader (or pin 51 on the cart slot in a toploader) to a wire. connect the wire to one leg of a 41k ohm resistor and solder the other leg of the resistor through the hole below the O pad it makes it easier. then hook a wire to the O pad and connect that to your audio connector (or multiout) along with a ground.

then your console is ready for expansion audio.

you will also have to modify your fla cart or famicom adapter.

cr4zymanz0r on p.23 says to run both lines through 1.2k resistors, mvs fan is saying only a 41k resistor on the famicom audio; quite a discrepancy. ???

[CkRtech]

Should we start a FAQ?

....

(Translation: Should I start a FAQ?)

[rCadeGaming]

Yes? Not sure if sarcasm or just being helpful...

[rCadeGaming]

I'm playing with it right now. Gonna use some pots to mix it by ear.

[Artemio]

Should we start a FAQ?

....

(Translation: Should I start a FAQ?)

We could all add to a wiki page in the xrgb wiki: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/

[Voultar]

Should we start a FAQ?

....

(Translation: Should I start a FAQ?)

Yes, I believe a general knowledge-base needs to be established.

I find it frustratingly annoying to read someone ask a question in this thread, and then read a facetious reply from someone claiming that their question was addressed on page XX. It's ridiculous to assume that someone is going to spend 30 minutes scanning over 80 pages of a very convoluted and often off-topic thread to ascertain the information that they're looking for.

[Artemio]

I'm playing with it right now. Gonna use some pots to mix it by ear.

I am also interested in this, I could help to find a balance with a scope. I only have Akumajo Densestu to test it with though.

[rCadeGaming]

I also only have Akumajo Densetsu.

After some tuning by ear, I found that I like to run the NES audio through a 1k ohm resistor and the Famicom audio through a 150 ohm resistor. I don't know what mvsfan is talking about. I don't think you'd be able to hear anything from the famicom audio if you ran it through a 41k resistor.

Artemio, I'd be interested to see what you find from your scope tests.

[Pasky]

So, I had some free time today and since a lot of people seem to be speculating about the Sync lines for the NESRGB, I decided to scope the sync line using this rom (Credits to Movax for making this for me):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/korhspmwsvzvdgd/colors.nes

At this screen:



So, scoping that screen, I took the signal from the PPUV, V, Y, & CS line:

CV:



PPUV:



Y:



CS:



You'll notice that Y, PPUV, & V all have a Vp-p of roughly ~1.2-1.8.

While CS has one within the 5V range. This is most likely the reason why some tv inputs don't like using CS (or vice versa, Y has a 1.2Vp-p which may be why some tvs dont like it etc...). As I stated earlier in this topic, the sync cleaner amps the Sync line, and some displays are sensitive to that so you need to put a voltage divider on the CS line and it should work. Just dial it in until you get a picture.

Hopefully this will get some insight on the issue and stop all the snake oil solutions.

[Artemio]

I also only have Akumajo Densetsu.

After some tuning by ear, I found that I like to run the NES audio through a 1k ohm resistor and the Famicom audio through a 150 ohm resistor. I don't know what mvsfan is talking about. I don't think you'd be able to hear anything from the famicom audio if you ran it through a 41k resistor.

Artemio, I'd be interested to see what you find from your scope tests.

I am starting by modding my adapter, and will add a pot for testing with the scope, and compare it to my modded Famicom in order to have a better understanding. It might take me some hours. BTW, did you read Villetim's response? http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 57#p964957 he recommends a 100k resistor and then mix it to C31 in the NESRGB (not the O point), based in the theory and differences between systems.

@Pasky Wow, now that is a scope, animated gifs and all. I am sure your work will help to frame this correctly.

[Artemio]

I modded my adapter with a simple wire as instructed in page 23, then took another wire from the expansion pin 40, and fed that to the scope in channel 1. Channel 2 is the "O" point in the NESRGB. Here are the results:



As you can see, the signal in the cart is around an order or magnitude higher than the output from the NESRGB.

Edit:

So, we can figure out the value to lower the signal to the same level, I still have to play with the potentiometer here. Or we can solder to the place Villetim will (?) add the input line to future revisions using a 100k resistor, however these being very small surface mount components you can easily ruin them.

I also compared the signal to the A and B input lines, and of course it is way off scale.



These are the spots.

[Ed Oscuro]

Kind of off-topic here, but Pasky, did you turn your Rigol into a 200MHz scope?

[keropi]

@Pasky

wow, thanks for taking the time to make these measurements but what do they mean to simple end-users that have CS# problems (like me) , what's the solution to them? Add a resistor on the CS# line?

[Pasky]

You need to put a voltage divider on the CS line.

Add a simple 10K potentiometer off the CS line and wire it like this:



You can use 2 resistors as well, using a voltage divider calculator:



http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electri ... ulator.htm

It's much more convenient to use a pot though, because you can dial it in if you decide to use a different display that may not accept the same signal, also much easier to determine how much division you'll need with a potentiometer.