Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Captain]

More from where that came from

[davyK]

Have been messing about with the built in games in Dezaemon 2 for Ssturn. It looks like high scores are not saved which seems a bit of a pity...is this the case or am I doing something wrong? Seems odd to go to the bother of having a hi-score screen with name entry and not save it.

[soprano1]

I played a credit of G-Darius on MAME 0.153 (using mameuifx32). The game speed seems to have improved, but the music seems too quiet now. Was that something they updated, or it's some option i forgot to turn on/off?

[mastermx]

Are there shmups whose gameplay completely depend on reflex, and do not rely on memory at all? I know certain eighties arcade games are like that, and some twin stick shooters which rely on rng, but are there any verts like that?

[ACSeraph]

Are there shmups whose gameplay completely depend on reflex, and do not rely on memory at all? I know certain eighties arcade games are like that, and some twin stick shooters which rely on rng, but are there any verts like that?

Short of being completely random there's no way a game would involve zero memorization. But there are shmups that have a lot of random elements, leading to a combination of reflexes and memorization. Touhou comes to mind.

I guess if a game was really easy you could beat it without memoriation, but that's not to say there wouldn't be portions that would become even easier once you memorized them.

Manic memo game that requires memo or die:

Darius II
R Type
Salamander (literally 100% memorization)

Games without many random elements where reflex can sometimes give you a pass on memorization:

Most of Cave's stuff

Static patterns combined with random elements that requires both memorization and reflex:

2hu
Darius Extra (or vanilla)

Non-random game that is stupid easy so you don't really even need memo to survive:

Deathsmiles IIX
Otomedius

---

So to conclude, it really depends on the game how much memo versus reflex is required, and it also depends on player skill. In Cave stuff if your reflexive ability is very high you can avoid needing memo in a lot of sections, but if your reflexes are low you can use memo to make up for it. In old manic shit the memo is often stuff that just cant be avoided via relex, cheap instant kills and such. Play Salamander if you want to see what I mean.

A reflex only game would be really frustrating I think, since it would mean the whole things is random, and inevitably you would get fucked over sometimes no matter how good you are. It would ruin the scoring too I think.

[LordHypnos]

Parsec 47 (not sure if I got that name totally right) Seems to be basically entirely RNG. That's a Kenta Cho game. that should basically be all reflex. Noiz2sa endless modes also, but Parsec improves upon pretty much all elements of noiz2sa IMO. except maybe the art design (noiz2sa looks really nice, to me, Parsec is a bit more meh). rRootage, also by Kenta Cho has random stages you can play to practice random dodging, but it's all patterns that are randomized, so playing on one particular level (e.g. 5R), you eventually start seeing repeated patterns. Still pretty good. Of those, rRootage is the most danmaku-like, but it's a boss rush game. Parsec and Noiz2sa have some danmaku, as well, but IIRC, it's a lot more fast sparse patterns, especially Parsec.

[Patashu]

Are there shmups whose gameplay completely depend on reflex, and do not rely on memory at all? I know certain eighties arcade games are like that, and some twin stick shooters which rely on rng, but are there any verts like that?

I remember hearing about an abstract shmup that is RNG-generated every time you play. I think it might be this one? http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/windows/rr_e.html

[M.Knight]

@LordHypnos : It is Parsec47.

Being inspired by Dangun Feveron, Parsec47's patterns are indeed fast and not too dense.
I am not sure how powerful is the randomness in the game, but it definitely does not rely on memorisation, as enemy waves and bullet patterns vary from one run to another.
I discovered this game quite recently and I like it a lot, its pace is very stimulating for the mind and the randomness make it harder to be burned out.

[LordHypnos]

Are there shmups whose gameplay completely depend on reflex, and do not rely on memory at all? I know certain eighties arcade games are like that, and some twin stick shooters which rely on rng, but are there any verts like that?

I remember hearing about an abstract shmup that is RNG-generated every time you play. I think it might be this one? http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/windows/rr_e.html

Yeah, that's some rRootage. It randomizes patterns, but eventually you notice the same patterns if you play one random level enough times. There are also a bunch of static levels. Great game, though, it's like danmaku 101.

@M.Knight: Thanks. It's good to know someone else here has come across Parsec 47. I might try playing it again, soon, as it's fun times, and it's been a while.

[ACSeraph]

It randomizes patterns, but eventually you notice the same patterns if you play one random level enough times.

So it's not like the patters are literally random bullets, rather it's randomly drawing from a large pool of premade patterns?

[LordHypnos]

It randomizes patterns, but eventually you notice the same patterns if you play one random level enough times.

So it's not like the patters are literally random bullets, rather it's randomly drawing from a large pool of premade patterns?

This is what it seems like both from what's going on in the game, and the terminal output which has a bunch of stuff like Psyvariar.xml and Progear.xml and stuff.

[mastermx]

Never heard of these games. I'm gonna need to check them out. Bosconian was the only reflex shmup I knew about.

[Squire Grooktook]

A reflex only game would be really frustrating I think, since it would mean the whole things is random, and inevitably you would get fucked over sometimes no matter how good you are. It would ruin the scoring too I think.

For me, the ideal is just enough static elements so that each pattern has its own strategic variety and "flavor", but just enough random elements so that you have to dodge and sight read differently each time.

So Touhou, basically. Or Eschatos.

[mastermx]

So Touhou, basically. Or Eschatos.

There are many touhous, which one would you rank as having a good mix.

[Squire Grooktook]

So Touhou, basically. Or Eschatos.

There are many touhous, which one would you rank as having a good mix.

I've default cleared 7-12, and lunatic cleared 10 (Mountain of Faith), so I don't really consider myself an expert on the series yet. But I'd probably recommend Touhou 10: Mountain of Faith since it has some nice boss designs, fair number of random dodging patterns each boss, a simplified scoring system, and overall the bomb system is very forgiving for a newcomer and allows you to work your way up to your goals pretty smoothly while still being very challenging.

Pretty much all of them have a good amount of rng though. 7: Embodiment of Scarlet Devil has maybe a bit too much (?), and 9: Imperishable Night I often see noted as having a little bit less than the rest. The vs games (Phantasmagoria of Flower View) are also pretty much pure randomness but very fun.

[ACSeraph]

What is the difference between Espgaluda II Arcade Mode and Xbox 360 Mode? Also where is Omake? Do I have to unlock it/was it DLC?

[AntiFritz]

What is the difference between Espgaluda II Arcade Mode and Xbox 360 Mode? Also where is Omake? Do I have to unlock it/was it DLC?

You unlock it by clearing the game once I think.

[Squire Grooktook]

Does anyone know how chaining exactly effects score in eXceed 2nd Vampire Rex? According to the manual, you get bonus chain points for every enemy you kill while a chain is in progress. But what kind of bonus? Is it like a multiplier or...?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What is the difference between Espgaluda II Arcade Mode and Xbox 360 Mode?

Same with Futari: it just changes if you use the original or updated HD graphics. Gameplay is the same. The only Cave port I think where there's a gameplay change from Arcade to 360 Mode is Deathsmiles, in 360 Mode you can pick whatever level you want repeatedly as opposed to only being able to pick level 1 or 2 twice, tops, so it can be made easier than the arcade version.

[ACSeraph]

Awesome thanks for the answers guys, that clears everything up. I had no idea about those changes in Deathsmiles either.

[endoKarb]

There are also some differences in slowdown between Xbox 360 mode and Arcade mode.

Also in Espgaluda II xbox 360 mode the tutorial gem glitch is fixed IIRC.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot that glitch even existed, but yeah, it's no longer doable in 360 Mode as I recall. Where is the slowdown noticeably different though? As far as I can tell 360 Mode is more or less comparable to the Arcade one.

[endoKarb]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot that glitch even existed, but yeah, it's no longer doable in 360 Mode as I recall. Where is the slowdown noticeably different though? As far as I can tell 360 Mode is more or less comparable to the Arcade one.

In Deathsmiles there are a bunch of differences. They are detailed in Tyjet's guide.

No idea about Espgaluda II and Futari but I'd assume there are some there too?

[LordHypnos]

A reflex only game would be really frustrating I think, since it would mean the whole things is random, and inevitably you would get fucked over sometimes no matter how good you are. It would ruin the scoring too I think.

For me, the ideal is just enough static elements so that each pattern has its own strategic variety and "flavor", but just enough random elements so that you have to dodge and sight read differently each time.

So Touhou, basically. Or Eschatos.

FWIW, rRootage (r modes), from what I can tell, does this but in a different way. The patterns seem to be static, but randomized, and there are a lot of them, so it takes a lot of playing of one r level to start noticing the repetitions, so you have fair patterns, but you don't know what they are meaning you have to sightread / reflex dodge / reflex bomb to beat them

It's possible that there are points with overlapping patterns though, which could end up being unfair, but overlapping randomized patterns seems to be more what noiz2sa endless modes use. I'm not totally sure, though. Also, not really sure about Parsec47

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Is there a way to play Judgement Silversword and Cardinal Sins in tate mode? In Eschatos, there's screen rotate options, but JS and CS don't have any screen rotate options in the menus.

edit: found a source that mentions a patch if you go online, I'm guessing that's what they fixed with it (how'd they forget that in the first place though??)

[BulletMagnet]

Yeah, there was no tate mode for the bonus games originally, but they patched it in later.

[cave hermit]

-Does anyone know what the requirements are to fight the true final boss in Pink sweets 1.00?

-Any good tips in general for surviving a dense bullet wave during a boss battle? I tend to die a lot because when I see a really dense bullet cloud I have no clue what to do and get really nervous and twitchy (Tourettes and OCD both suck BTW)

-If I get my hands on a 1.01 code for Mushihimesama Futari, can that be redeemed on a US Xbox live account?

[BulletMagnet]

-If I get my hands on a 1.01 code for Mushihimesama Futari, can that be redeemed on a US Xbox live account?

I believe it can; IIRC I redeemed mine on my US account.

[Nali]

-Any good tips in general for surviving a dense bullet wave during a boss battle? I tend to die a lot because when I see a really dense bullet cloud I have no clue what to do and get really nervous and twitchy (Tourettes and OCD both suck BTW)

-If I get my hands on a 1.01 code for Mushihimesama Futari, can that be redeemed on a US Xbox live account?

1: Practice the boss patterns more. A lot of the time, there's gonna be some idea behind the chaos and knowing how to approach a pattern like that is key to getting through on the other side unscathed. Try different options. Maybe there are certain sections of the attack that is less dense, so move there. Maybe you can memorize bits of it. Maybe you can move around the dense cluster entirely. Try stuff and practice, that's really all there is to it.

2: I have no experience with that card in particular but when I went to redeem my Mushihimesama HD 1.5 card, I couldn't do that on my PAL account however making a Japanese account (which is really easy to make) solved my issue.

[Jonst]

This maybe kind of a stupid question...I know ketsui is brutal but how much harder is it to 1cc than say,progear?