Just me or is Daifukkatsu poorly balanced for survival?

[Erppo]

That's a lot of CAVE games.

But SDOJ is the only one where scoring too much in the earlier stages will actually hurt your score in the last stage, thanks to the rank being kind of dumb. That's the main thing I don't like about the game.

There's also very little to do in terms of scoring in the other stages when you compare them to 5, especially in stage 4.

[Formless God]

I did not say that

You did. Twice. I just went with the most recent post since the contents were nearly identical. Every time you mention SDOJ, you bring up the Dress system even when nobody said a damn thing about it, while completely missing the point of it.

And also, on it being a synonym for "difficulty select", both DOJ and DFK managed without loli's in swimsuits

And that is three times.

And it was said in context to skykids reply

You clearly have no idea what the context is then, as Skykid wasn't referring to "chicks in swimsuits" when he said "dress system".

See how irritating it is to talk to people incapable of thinking any further than the aesthetics on the surface?

[nasty_wolverine]

I did not say that

You did. Twice. I just went with the most recent post since the contents were nearly identical.

original sentence

I did not say that, the quote clearly says "fewer innovations", not "no innovations" and in the context of comparison to DFK, which was radically different from any DDP game.

I think I was taken out of context again. I never said there is nothing new in SDOJ, there is, I even mentioned I actually like the game. I was not talking about the dress system here.

Every time you mention SDOJ, you bring up the Dress system even when nobody said a damn thing about it, while completely missing the point of it.

And what is the point of the dress system. I am curious, I want to know.

You clearly have no idea what the context is then, as Skykid wasn't referring to "chicks in swimsuits" when he said "dress system".

But the "dress system" is "chicks in swimsuit" layered over a difficulty select. Otherwise a completely unnecessary addition to the game. I dont know how it adds to the game.

Anyway, this thread was about DFK, and I never want to multi-quote anything ever again (fucking tiring). I will make it clear again, I like SDOJ (but i think it can do with a traditional DOJ-DFK/BL style difficulty select screen), and think its a really good game. And I also think that DFK/BL is a good game too.

[Squire Grooktook]

What I've gathered from this thread is that people had legitimate grievances for both the concept and execution of DFK and it's not merely "oh, people are afraid of change".

But the "dress system" is "chicks in swimsuit" layered over a difficulty select. Otherwise a completely unnecessary addition to the game. I dont know how it adds to the game.

It's not an addition, or innovation, or anything that adds to the game. It's just an aesthetic repackaging of something that was already there. You might as well say that changing the title "difficulty select" to "challenge select" is an "addition to the game". It's just aesthetic.

[Formless God]

The dress system is "two loops split into two selectable difficulties at the beginning of the game", which people wanted for a long time.
I don't care if you like SDOJ or not. The fact that a programmer is unable to think in terms of mechanics is very disturbing.

It's just an aesthetic repackaging of something that was already there.

Pretty sure it wasn't there in both DOJ and DFK.

[nasty_wolverine]

The dress system is "two loops split into two selectable difficulties at the beginning of the game", which people wanted for a long time.
I don't care if you like SDOJ or not. The fact that a programmer is unable to think in terms of mechanics is very disturbing.

It's just an aesthetic repackaging of something that was already there.

Pretty sure it wasn't there in both DOJ and DFK.

Its there in DFKBL, Strong mode is loop two, it uses ura loop patterns at high rank. And what's does the programmer thing have to.do with anything?

[ACSeraph]

Pretty sure it wasn't there in both DOJ and DFK.

Didn't DFK BL have much harder patterns for power style? Seems like SDOJ is just an evolution of that. Also 1 loop + selectable difficulty is the best thing that ever happened to DDP.

EDIT: beat me to it. It was strong though? I can never keep that shit straight. Swimsuit chick mode is much easier to remember

[endoKarb]

Also 1 loop + selectable difficulty is the best thing that ever happened to DDP.

Meanwhile, nobody plays SDOJ on Expert

[Icarus]

Meanwhile, nobody plays SDOJ on Expert

And everyone plays X360 Mode with Shot Type. :<

[Special World]

Also 1 loop + selectable difficulty is the best thing that ever happened to DDP.

Meanwhile, nobody plays SDOJ on Expert

well I mean it's crazy hard...

[ACSeraph]

That's mostly because SDOJ is hard as fuck even on Laser. I'd play Expert if my mustache was a bit curlier...

There are other games with similar options. Triggerheart Excelica DC Arrange is basically a second loop, and I love that mode. But I would never play it if it were an actual loop.

SDOJ Expert might be more enticing if it had a different arranged soundtrack and maybe also a different true ending after beating the TLB (does it have a different ending? I don't even know...)

[endoKarb]

For comparison: Dodonpachi

~80% of the DDP scores on the leaderboard are 2-loop scores.

The reason why selectable difficulty sucks is that it splits the leaderboard and splits the competition.
Reaching 2-3 in DDP feels like "Hey I'm seriously getting good at this". Reaching the third stage on EXPART? Meh.

Also, expert is a whole tier easier than most 2 loop games, probably even easier than Ketsui omote.

I can understand a lot of the criticism people have toward Dai Fukkatsu, but to me the one game where CAVE really missed the mark still seems to be SDOJ.

I'm feeling the SaiDaiOuJou meh.

[Skykid]

I'm feeling the SaiDaiOuJou meh.

I really love that that's a meme.

[nasty_wolverine]

I'm feeling the SaiDaiOuJou meh.

I really love that that's a meme.

And we have gone full circle...

[Bananamatic]

Also 1 loop + selectable difficulty is the best thing that ever happened to DDP.

Meanwhile, nobody plays SDOJ on Expert

I'm going to after I get at least a decent ketsui run

[cave hermit]

Saidaioujou actually has the opposite problem of DFK in my eyes: it's way too difficult way too quickly. Right away the enemies are firing off raiden style aimed shots en masse, and then the first level boss is just ridiculous when it starts doing that turret spin thing with the dense proto dishwasher patterns. SDOJ lacks a gradual difficulty curve...

[Skykid]

Saidaioujou actually has the opposite problem of DFK in my eyes: it's way too difficult way too quickly. Right away the enemies are firing off raiden style aimed shots en masse, and then the first level boss is just ridiculous when it starts doing that turret spin thing with the dense proto dishwasher patterns. SDOJ lacks a gradual difficulty curve...

Nah, it's got a good curve. I agree the stage one boss is well above average by most shmup standards, but he requires no bombs to beat. Stage two's is definitely harder, so I'd say the difficulty is graded well.

[ACSeraph]

Yeah I agree, the difficulty progression feels good in SDOJ, it's just that the starting difficulty is a lot higher than usual. Stage 1 feels more like your average stage 3, and keeps progressing until it reaches "gonna cut a bitch" difficulty by stage 5.

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually prefer it when shmups start out fairly brutal early on, so long as the curve to the final stage is a bit softer exchange (not the case with soj, ha ha). I like being forced to concentrate and focus to survive from the very beginning.

[endoKarb]

Saidaioujou actually has the opposite problem of DFK in my eyes: it's way too difficult way too quickly. Right away the enemies are firing off raiden style aimed shots en masse, and then the first level boss is just ridiculous when it starts doing that turret spin thing with the dense proto dishwasher patterns.

Yeah, SDOJ is very "Psikyo-like" in that regard. Fast, gimmicky bullet pattern that are hard to dodge on reaction.

I actually like that aspect on the game. Especially on expart, SDOJ has some of my favorite patterns.
It's just the game/scoring system as a whole that feels underwhelming to me.

[nasty_wolverine]

I actually like that aspect on the game. Especially on expart, SDOJ has some of my favorite patterns.

Yeah, expert is balls to the walls fun. but the thing that pisses me off is the mid boss patterns, straight off bullet barf for most of them.

[Bananamatic]

Stage 1 feels more like your average stage 3

bullshit

[Skykid]

Stage 1 feels more like your average stage 3

bullshit

Not very eloquent, but I agree that SDOJ stg1 is very easy, sidelining the boss.

SDOJ stage 3 feels closer to a stage 5 as long as we're talking about recent Cave (generally easier games) and discounting the likes of Ketsui and DOJ.

Stage four is a ball buster, but all the better for it.

[Bananamatic]

I got to stage 4 on my very first arcade credit, it's standard cave difficulty. 3 bombs every life+autobomb+hypers is a ton of stuff for survival play. Not to mention how much power and spread your shot has in shot style.

the real ball buster is stage 4 boss on expert, you can't practice the opener properly because it behaves differently in stage practice and the only reasonable way to no miss it is to have a lv6 hyper going into it. Which involves never dying or hypering in stage 4.

[mastermx]

Stage 1 feels more like your average stage 3

bullshit

If you can't disagree with someone respectfully. Then don't respond.

[Bananamatic]

there is nothing disrespectful about strong disagreement with something obviously wrong

stage 1 lasts 80 seconds and has a grand total of zero enemies that shoot something else than aimed shots
if that's your idea of an average stage 3 then you should stop playing daioujou no bullets mode

[ACSeraph]

Bananamatic just has dat fiery passion, I'm not offended.

I actually went back and played it again tonight for the first time in about 6 months (A friend had been borrowing my copy for an extended period). I remembered it being harder than it actually is. It's actually more like a very short stage 2 with a stage 2 boss, and the difficulty just spikes a lot higher than normal with each stage. Shits pretty brutal by stage 3, similar to Ketsui's stage 3 (even has a giant boat) but the bigger hitbox makes things extra difficult for me.

[mastermx]

Sometimes we say things in forums jokingly, and sometimes misunderstandings can happen and flame wars can spark up. Bananamatic made some good points when he went into more detail.

I'm not sure how I feel about the 2loop vs difficulty choice. I feel that when you give people a 1loop choice, they end up ignoring the other difficulty settings. They beat it in normal, and just ignore the expert. When it is 2loops though, the game is saying: the second loop is important, it's not just choice.

All of this comes down to what is "official" in the eyes of the developer and player. It's subjective. And players are all very different in that regard, an example of this would be whether a player uses a glitch because it's part of the game, or whether he considers it cheating and unintended.

I think we need a separate thread for 2loop games vs difficulty choice.

[Formless God]

They beat it in normal, and just ignore the expert.

I've never seen anyone who actually did this.

[Nali]

They beat it in normal, and just ignore the expert.

I've never seen anyone who actually did this.

Yeah, on the contrary, it seems much more likely that someone doesn't bother with a 2nd loop than a difficulty mode simply because of the considerably higher effort 2nd loops generally take in comparison.