Mame 0.153 Cave SH-3 emulation

[mastermx]

Accidentally found this pic lol

Classic.

Maybe because it's a hoax

[trap15]

Except it's not. I don't lie lol. Especially when there's no reason to.

[cools]

On the other hand the Raizing trinity have so much lag that unless one of them is the only game I'm playing they make me want to throw the cabinet out of a window, it's revolting. If someone could fix Garegga/Batrider input lag on real hardware I'd be happy to pay them.

That would be a dream come true.

The only sensible response to this ridiculous notion is lrn2play.

Yeah, given a week with the game the lag becomes unnoticeable. Stop playing for a bit, it becomes unbearable.

[mastermx]

Except it's not. I don't lie lol. Especially when there's no reason to.

If that's true, then this moment reminds me of a scene from family guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jjDPZHQKYo

"Hey figure it out for yourself man!"

[trap15]

If you watch family guy then I doubt it's any point to argue with you. However I'm sure most people here understand that I actually know what I'm talking about; I've actually given MetalliC hints in IRC since he was kind enough to actually straight up ask.

[mastermx]

Off topic but, family guy is awesome.

Anyway I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm just saying this all seems a little suspicious. I hope you don't feel offended, but I don't believe every single claim written on the Internet.

[nasty_wolverine]

Anyway I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm just saying this all seems a little suspicious. I hope you don't feel offended, but I don't believe every single claim written on the Internet.

you are being suspicious about a guy knowing how to fix sh3 slowdown, the same guy who has made two rom hacks of cave games and who is also considered "the genius teen (maybe not anymore) hacker" around these parts.

your suspicion is unfounded. if he says mame has code to summon demons, i would probably believe him.

[Xyga]

Anyway I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm just saying this all seems a little suspicious. I hope you don't feel offended, but I don't believe every single claim written on the Internet.

you are being suspicious about a guy knowing how to fix sh3 slowdown, the same guy who has made two rom hacks of cave games and who is also considered "the genius teen (maybe not anymore) hacker" around these parts.

your suspicion is unfounded. if he says mame has code to summon demons, i would probably believe him.

Apparently so. I don't think trap15's skills are the issue though.

[mastermx]

your suspicion is unfounded. if he says mame has code to summon demons, i would probably believe him.

I don't know trap as much as you do. So to me having unwavering belief in him is also unfounded.

I don't know how skillful he is, most of my time on the forum, lurking or otherwise was spent reading about shmups. In fact this is the first time I'm hearing these things about trap. Perhaps I was too quick to judge. I withhold my belief about all claims when there is no proof of such claims. It's nothing against trap, it's just healthy scepticism.

[trap15]

Maybe I should have told MetalliC my hints here, so it would have been known that I actually do know what I'm talking about
(s-yagawa is me in this log)

Code: Select all

16:07 < s-yagawa> MetalliC: there are waitstates for accessing memory, and the clock is too high
16:08 < s-yagawa> (there is a divisor controlled by a pin)
16:18 <+MetalliC> s-yagawa: ok, need to look how BSC registers programmed, but iirc there was no wait
16:19 < s-yagawa> there are a bunch of things that affect the waitstates
16:19 < s-yagawa> and the divisor is an external pin
16:19 < s-yagawa> anyways, I have an ibara PCB and checked the CPU usage; it's definitely the main source of slowdown in that game
16:19 <@hap> heh, so mame runs the cpu twice too fast? :p
16:20 < s-yagawa> yup
16:20 < s-yagawa> and there's actual memory waitstates that are not insignificant
16:20 <@hap> those are hard to emulate tho :(
16:20 < s-yagawa> they're not that hard to emulate
16:20 <@hap> ok lemme word it differently
16:20 < s-yagawa> it's CPU-caused
16:20 < s-yagawa> not memory caused
16:20 <@hap> ah ok, then it's easier
16:21 < s-yagawa> I don't think SH has a /WAIT pin or whatever
16:21 <@hap> ok ok

EDIT: Of course, what I said will mean nothing to people who don't know anything about this sort of thing (probably the majority of people reading this)

[nasty_wolverine]

Of course, what I said will mean nothing to people who don't know anything about this sort of thing (probably the majority of people reading this)

So, if i am correct, few hardware params in mame are wrong, and its just about putting the right values in? (Have no clue about mame code base, never looked at it, so dont understand much)

[trap15]

No it's not that easy. It's nothing I could easily explain to someone who doesn't understand this at the low level.

[Patashu]

Btw, is shmupmame going to bring in SH3 emulation, if it's still being updated?

[Xyga]

Even if most people will only get little of it it is still interesting to read about, so thank you for sharing.
It's the though that counts when you share some of your experience and knowledge.

You know, going around criticizing the work of other coders and making statements is fine, but saying you can't stand people who talk about stuff they don't know at the same time is kind of asking for people to doubt you.

Or maybe you're the kind who thinks 'I have knowledge and reputation, I don't need to explain myself or to be liked' ?
Like mastermx I'm a noob here so I don't know much about what you have done these past years, only bits caught here and there reading these forums... I also read about quite a bit of your agressive and contemptuous responses to people.

Why ? If ignorant people get on your nerves don't give them anything to ask about then.

[jepjepjep]

On the other hand the Raizing trinity have so much lag that unless one of them is the only game I'm playing they make me want to throw the cabinet out of a window, it's revolting. If someone could fix Garegga/Batrider input lag on real hardware I'd be happy to pay them.

That would be a dream come true.

The only sensible response to this ridiculous notion is lrn2play.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p1002095

[casualcoder]

I don't know what's happening to this thread but it's making everyone look bad. I think it's safe to abandon this entire thread at this point.

[Cagar]

Trap15, you always somewhat sound like an edgy teenager in these threads.
I'm saying this as a friendly suggestion, you should totally write a longer thing about your mame-rage.
Just use lots of metaphors so that even your mother could understand it.
I'm really curious about this subject

[trap15]

Yes, I'm fully intending to do that at some point. Give me a few months

[Andypc]

I would like to thank Trap15 for sharing information with MetalliC. I understand that a lot goes on behind the scene's and when lots of people are involved in developing an emulator it gets complicated, but as a Mame user any support that helps improve the accuracy of the emulation should be applauded. The emulation scene relies on people committing lots of time and effort in development and I for one am extremely grateful to all the Devs.

[xMetalliCx]

ughh, no actual information was shared, well probably because trap15 havent real ideas , just banal "its waitstates" or miserious "divider pin", and as was already said on IRC - no, its not RAM waitstates, and not because MD0-2 pins.
SH3 Area3 (c000000) is set to SDRAM mode -> its exclusive CPU's area -> /WAIT signal ignored.
bus clock is 50Mhz, 32 bit wide, plus CPU have cache -> IMHO its more than enough for CPU running at fullspeed.

about divider: (actually x1/x4 input clock multiplier) I've already explained on IRC - if freq will be changed - timers will be changed too, eg fucked up music, so...

I've already examined all this things ~2,5years ago, and explained/shared it too, but people probably forgot this.

[trap15]

And I've explained already that the only way to get the CPU 'usage' gauge in Ibara correct to my PCB was to implement the waitstates and cut the input clock in half. Do I need to take another look at the datasheet and point the registers out?

Admittedly, the gauge isn't perfectly accurate since it can only go through like 30 units, but it's enough to tell that the CPU is entirely wrong in MAME. Almost all of the slowdown in Ibara is caused by the CPU, I've tested this many times myself since I was surprised by it.

[Ed Oscuro]

hae gaiz, when can mame emulate amulet

should be reel soon, now

you don't even have to plug in any cycles! amazing

[Magma Dragoon]

Hello.

I must be missing something, because I've downloaded the latest MAMEUI32 build, but cavesh3 doesn't appear on it's list.

[mastermx]

Have you tried the official MAME build?

[Magma Dragoon]

As in regular mame32? No, because I prefer mameui, since I don't have to compile anything. By the way, I got the last version from Progettosnaps.

[Xyga]

Try the latest UME.

[mastermx]

Not mame32. As in MAME, just mame. I believe you can use a ui with it, you just have to designate the exe file in the ui itself. I'm away from my pc at the moment, but I'll let you know some good ui's to use with mame once I get back to it. There are so many builds and unofficial releases that it can get really confusing. But overall I've found the official releases to be the most consistent in terms of stability.

[Xyga]

some good ui's to use with mame

I like M+GUI, it's just your average Mame Plus GUI.
Also works with UME.
http://www.emucr.com/2014/01/mgui-v1581.html

[mastermx]

I was using mame plus, and it's very solid, I ended installing many frontends, especially ones that let you create a favourites list. MAME is awesome because of the customization. I'm hoping to one day build a mame cab. Nothing against pcbs though, just can't afford them.

[Magma Dragoon]

I'm downloading the mameui32 hiscore version, at least the site says it comes with sh3 drivers. Anything else I'll drop by.