The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

[BIL]

I get so confused about the Shinobi games. Which one is the first? I thought Revenge of Shinobi was first, Shinobi III is the third and I'm missing one somewhere but the prototype there suggests otherwise.

You mean just for the Genesis? Revenge of Shinobi/Super Shinobi was the first, Shadow Dancer was the second, and Shinobi III/Super Shinobi II was the third. Shadow Dancer plays more like the original arcade Shinobi, so that's probably why it wasn't a Super Shinobi in Japan.

Yeah, exactly. Shinobi (AC) -> Shadow Dancer (AC) -> Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi (MD). The Super Shinobi I & II were always their own thing in Japan. It's only in the latter's "Shinobi III" localisation that the two lines were merged.

Similar situation with Contra, at least in the sense of a localisation stamping on a numeral. The US version of Contra Spirits labels it "III," making some wonder where "Contra II" (Super Contra aka Super C) went.

[Phellan Wolf]

Shinobi saga is among the best game series ever made IMO. All of them represent a challenge, and I prefer them to Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden series.
I loved the game gear's games, particularly Shinobi II, I had really good moments with that game, but the last part where you have to fight against the Shadow Ninjas is a pain in the ass, I never was able to pass through the last boss.

[BrianC]

There's also the odd duck of the Shinobi games, Cyber Shinobi (1990?) for Master System. From what I tried of the game, it wasn't too fun and didn't feel much like Shinobi. The main attacks are awkward and it's slower paced due to having to beat 2 or three enemies to progress. It was EU only, but designed in Japan. I'm not sure if it was originally planned to be Shinobi, but a prototype exists that is still Cyber Shinobi. At least SMS got a decent arcade conversion of the original and a Parodius like Alex Kidd spinoff. GG actually got the better end of the deal with two original Shinobis that play every bit as good as their Genesis counterparts.

[Ed Oscuro]

GG Shinobis are a totally different play style - if anything is closer to the Genesis games, it's Alex Kidd in Shinobi World (which still has a unique feeling due to interesting stuff like the lamppost twirl maneuver). I like the GG Shinobis quite a bit, but they are really different and more exploration-oriented.

[BrianC]

GG Shinobis are a totally different play style - if anything is closer to the Genesis games, it's Alex Kidd in Shinobi World (which still has a unique feeling due to interesting stuff like the lamppost twirl maneuver). I like the GG Shinobis quite a bit, but they are really different and more exploration-oriented.

GG Shinobi I is less exploration-oriented than GG Shinobi II, though. It also starts off harder. I agree they are different, but I think quality wise, GG made out much better than SMS.

[Edmond Dantes]

Shinobi saga is among the best game series ever made IMO. All of them represent a challenge, and I prefer them to Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden series.

Completely agreed.

That level where you jump from rock to rock in the canyon in Shinobi III... finally mastering that level was one of my most satisfying moments as a gamer.

[BPzeBanshee]

Ah, so Shadow Dancer must be the one I've missed. My uncle owns Revenge of Shinobi and I found Shinobi III only a few years back as a ROM wondering if they did a sequel (to which I found out they fixed everything that annoyed the shit out of me in the first one). I'll have to give this other one a spin.

Cheers guys!

[Skykid]

Shinobi saga is among the best game series ever made IMO. All of them represent a challenge

Super Shinobi presents a hardcore challenge. Super Shinobi II, conversely, is a complete walk in the park: easy to the point of spoiling the game.

[BIL]

Super Shinobi II could've almost gone with AC-style instant deaths and still felt about right. Maybe powerdown, then death ala Metal Storm. I play on "Hardest" so that attrition is at least possible and bigger boss attacks can do critical damage.

Instant death is basically the mindset I play it with anyway, since any damage is fatal to the POW-fuelled styling and profiling that makes it one of the best ninja sidescrollers ever. Six button mode with bullet-slicing katana and blocking on reaction is fn' slick.

[Bloodreign]

A game no one really talks about when it comes to Genesis or Mega Drive, High Seas Havoc/Captain Lang. Nice little Data East platformer with slippery controls, some blind jumps, and many compare to being a Sonic ripoff (even the music in the opening demo have some thinking Final Fantasy). All in all a nice game anyway, but damn is this thing major difficult due to having to do some acrobatic jumps in later levels. Nice colors for a MD/Genesis game as well, the game looks very bright and beautiful. Lots of level variety, and some cool bosses, each seem to show some personality.

If you can get past the controls and difficulty, you have a little gem of a game.

[yojo!]

A game no one really talks about when it comes to Genesis or Mega Drive, High Seas Havoc/Captain Lang. .

Is it very similar to the arcade version or a completely different game ?

[BrianC]

A game no one really talks about when it comes to Genesis or Mega Drive, High Seas Havoc/Captain Lang. .

Is it very similar to the arcade version or a completely different game ?

Considering the arcade version is based on Genesis hardware, it's a safe bet that it's extremely similar, if not the same.

[Bloodreign]

A game no one really talks about when it comes to Genesis or Mega Drive, High Seas Havoc/Captain Lang. .

Is it very similar to the arcade version or a completely different game ?

I've heard rumblings of an arcade game, but have never found evidence of one. Probably just the Genesis version inside a cabinet, and if that's the case, pretty much similar game.

[BPzeBanshee]

I just played Shadow Dancer today. Bloody hell, what were they thinking.

Sure the movement's simpler but everything is simpler, and annoying. Didn't really get that Shinobi feel that I got out of the first and third, it's like they were done by a completely different dev or something.

[BrianC]

I just played Shadow Dancer today. Bloody hell, what were they thinking.

Sure the movement's simpler but everything is simpler, and annoying. Didn't really get that Shinobi feel that I got out of the first and third, it's like they were done by a completely different dev or something.

Shinobi feel? Have you seriously not even played the original arcade Shinobi? Shadow Dancer plays more like the arcade Shinobi and is named after the second Shinobi arcade game, a different game from the Genesis Shadow Dancer, which also plays more like the first arcade Shinobi than the Super Shinobi games. Don't get me wrong, the Super Shinobis are good stuff, but Shadow Dancer actually goes back to the original style rather than deviating from it.

There's also this comment from earlier in the thread:

Yeah, exactly. Shinobi (AC) -> Shadow Dancer (AC) -> Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi (MD). The Super Shinobi I & II were always their own thing in Japan. It's only in the latter's "Shinobi III" localisation that the two lines were merged.

[Mortificator]

What Banshee's referring to when he says "the first" is the first Genesis game, The Revenge of Shinobi. Shadow Dancer TSoS is naturally going to feel like an odd duck to someone experienced with the first and third console Shinobis.

[BrianC]

What Banshee's referring to when he says "the first" is the first Genesis game, The Revenge of Shinobi. Shadow Dancer TSoS is naturally going to feel like an odd duck to someone experienced with the first and third console Shinobis.

Isn't that what I said earlier in the thread? It was mentioned by me and BIL much earlier in the thread that Shadow Dancer plays like the arcade Shinobis and that the Super Shinobis are different.

Edit: forgot I answered the question about which game was first for Genesis earlier in the thread.

[Captain]

shut up.

All the shinobis are great.

We don't wanna know which ones are better and why.

[Xyga]

I was never able to source the first, unrevised version of Revenge featuring batman, godzilla, spidey, rambo and the terminator.
Just gave up after buying a few carts here and there...

[BPzeBanshee]

Shinobi feel? Have you seriously not even played the original arcade Shinobi? Shadow Dancer plays more like the arcade Shinobi and is named after the second Shinobi arcade game, a different game from the Genesis Shadow Dancer, which also plays more like the first arcade Shinobi than the Super Shinobi games. Don't get me wrong, the Super Shinobis are good stuff, but Shadow Dancer actually goes back to the original style rather than deviating from it.

No, I have not seriously played the original arcade Shinobi. Arcades don't exist here anymore, and going from my current experience I'd probably not have a fucking clue whether it was because I'm getting so damn confused by all the different names it's like the only thing in common is the damn ninja and even he looks different. Forgive my ignorance, I'm only trying to understand what's going on with the franchise here.

So there's Shinobi, the main line (is it worth playing?), which leads into Shadow Dancer. And Revenge of Shinobi is the spinoff, and then Shinobi III merges the spinoff back to the main line? Am I finally getting this right or am I missing something else again?

[BIL]

So there's Shinobi, the main line (is it worth playing?), which leads into Shadow Dancer. And Revenge of Shinobi is the spinoff, and then Shinobi III merges the spinoff back to the main line? Am I finally getting this right or am I missing something else again?

It's not that complex if you disregard the overseas titles of the MD games entirely. "The Revenge of Shinobi" and "Shinobi III" imply that they're sequels to the arcade original. In reality, Shadow Dancer AC and Shadow Dancer MD are the sequels. This line is essentially a heavy modification of Namco's Rolling Thunder. Sidescrolling cover-intensive action games with tiered stages that the player and enemies can switch up and down between. If you hate Shadow Dancer MD, you might not be too keen on the earlier two.

The Super Shinobi is significantly different and received own sequel, Super Shinobi II. These ditch the Rolling Thunder concepts of tiers and cover-emphasising instant kills for the more freeform model you're familiar with. The Saturn game Shin Shinobi Den is effectively the third game in this line. It's goofy-looking but well worth a go.

Think of it like Gradius and Salamander. Similar in a lot of ways, lots of shared universe elements, but divergent nonetheless.

[stryc9]

Good explanation BIL.

BPzeBanshee, you wouldn't be the first one to be confused by the Shinobi series. I seem to remember mags back in the day wondering why Shadow Dancer (1990) didn't move the series along from Super Shinobi (1989), but in reality they are distinct sub-series.

Like Gradius and Salamander, as BIL said. Or OldschoolVania vs MetroidVania.

The original Shinobi and it's sequel Shadow Dancer distinguish themselves by having the one-hit death policy, bonus rounds, the high ledge jump, and rescuing hostages.

The Super Shinobi games have health bars, are longer and more console orientated, have selectable magic and the famous double-jump to name a few key differences. Both have their place in the world of awesome ninja games.

Just disregard Sega calling SS2 Shinobi III. This was the same company that thought Americans would like their version of TFIV called Lightening Force

[BrianC]

Yeah, it's hard to pinpoint the order of the games since a couple of them came out in the same year. To make things more confusing, SMS got a game called Cyber Shinobi that plays nothing like the others.

Arcade style Shinobis:

These games borrow a bit from Rolling Thunder and have hostages to save in order to clear the level.

Shinobi AC
Shadow Dancer AC
Shadow Dancer MD

Super Shinobi series:

I'm including the Saturn and 3DS games here since they are more similar to Super Shinobi than the others, though Shinobi 3DS has its own feel with a combo system and more focus on parrying projectiles.

Super Shinobi/Revenge of Shinobi Genesis/MD
Super Shinobi II/Shinobi III Genesis/MD
Shin Shinobi Den/Shinobi Legions Saturn
Shinobi 3DS

GG Shinobi series:

The GG Shinobi games are a bit different. They combine elements from the Super Shinobis and Mega Man with a level select and getting ninjas with different abilities for beating levels. The abilities are required to reach certain areas.

GG Shinobi
GG Shinobi II

3D PS2 Shinobis:

These play a bit different from earlier games. I only played Nightshade, but it has more of a focus on dashing and keeping up chains with multiple enemies. A huge focus is on airborne enemies, as well.

Shinobi PS2
Nightshade/Kunoichi

Cyber Shinobi SMS:

This game is different from other games and is more focused on melee attacks with having to kill two or three enemies to progress at times. For some reason, the ninja does a odd back sheath sword attack ala Yoshimitsu in earlier Tekken games rather than a full on sword attack like in Super Shinobi II.

SMS Shinobi:

Plays like the original AC Shinobi, but has a full on life meter like Super Shinobi and no longer requires all hostages to be saved in order to clear a level. Instead, hostages give power ups unique to the SMS version like nunchucks and a pistol. Some hostages grant access to the bonus round. NES version is a port of this version, but is inferior in every way.

Alex Kidd in Shinobi World:

Pretty much what Parodius is to Gradius. Stage themes and bosses are a parody of the original Shinobi, though the game plays more like a cartoonish platformer with a sword as the main weapon.

[Koa Zo]

The SOA Lightning Force name may be because Hot-B published TFIII in the US. There may have been rights issues with the Thunder Force name at that point.

[yojo!]

A game no one really talks about when it comes to Genesis or Mega Drive, High Seas Havoc/Captain Lang. .

Is it very similar to the arcade version or a completely different game ?

I've heard rumblings of an arcade game, but have never found evidence of one. Probably just the Genesis version inside a cabinet, and if that's the case, pretty much similar game.

I saw the PCB on ebay just a few days ago.

[Specineff]

I saw it a long time ago in Mexico.

[Marc]

Ok, never bothered to play Shadow Dancer on MD because it got slated for being inferior to Revenge/Super way back when. Mean Machines were my Bible, and pretty on the money for the most part, but if it is/was just because it eas more of a straightforward Shinobi game, I need to check this out.

[BPzeBanshee]

Thanks guys. I think I'm getting a clearer picture on this. Clearly the "Super Shinobi" line is more my forte than Shadow Dancer, but I may yet have to give the 3DS titles a spin if they're on the Australian store.

[BrianC]

Where I live, Shinobi used to be very common in arcades in the 80s. I also grew up occasionally playing the SMS version. I first found out about Shadow Dancer in a magazine and first got interested in it when I found out that it plays like the arcade Shinobi.

[stryc9]

Ok, never bothered to play Shadow Dancer on MD because it got slated for being inferior to Revenge/Super way back when. Mean Machines were my Bible, and pretty on the money for the most part, but if it is/was just because it eas more of a straightforward Shinobi game, I need to check this out.

Ha, yeah, same here, and I remember taking that review to heart at the time (I think they scored it in the high sixties if memory serves). I got the game though and pretty much agreed with them, and that was coming from a Shinobi AC player.

Now, not so much. Shadow Dancer has it's own special place in my MD collection, and these days its the Japanese original with the awesome cover art. Seriously why did they change the cover to something so much worse?