GD: Cyvern scoring and rank

[black mariah]

The scoring system is straightforward enough, I just have one question there. How do you increase the value of medals? Is it like Raiden Fighters where you have to collect all the ones onscreen before revealing others? Or is it like Garegga where you just have to not miss any?

*EDIT*
Forgot the rank question. Sometimes I get to the first boss and it's green instead of tan. The patterns are different, and the second level is a bit more difficult. How does this work?



<changed RQ to GD -inc.>

[Rastan78]

Not sure about the first one. You have to collect all the medals on screen first in Garegga as well before the value increases for the next set. I think this is how it is in Cyvern also but it's been a while. I'm assuming you already know about weakening ground enemies with shot and then using banishing attack?

I'm pretty sure not dying at all will increase the rank and possibly getting the medals up to a high value before the first boss.

[black mariah]

Alright, here we go...

- You have to expose medals and collect them before exposing more in order to raise the value. Raiden Fighters style.

- Missing medals doesn't appear to lower the value of future medals. Only letting ground based enemies past seems to do this. Thank the shmupping gods for small favors.

- I have to do some checking but it appears that if you accidentally weaken an enemy with your shot, banish some others and collect the medals, then come back and banish the original enemy, it will take on the medal value of the ones you banised in the middle there... does that make ANY sense at all? I'll draw a diagram if needed... and if it actually does that and it isn't just my imagination.

Questions, if anyone is interested...

- What's the upper limit of scoring in level 1? I've reached 530k without incident, but feel there's a lot more to be had. 750k is probably trivial given some changes in how I work the medals. Is 1 million possible?

- In level 2 you can expose a 100k medal by destroying the orange planes, left one first then the right one. How many of these medals are there, and where the hell are they?

I'm looking for any kind of strategy help here. I suck so I'm still in the early stages, just trying to get to where I can score without dying.

[freddiebamboo]

Reviving an old RQ thread in the hope that someone comes along that knows a thing or two about this game.


For beginners (I don't think it's made totally clear above) medals are gained by holding down fire (banishing) ground enemies, with the value going up after every time you reveal a group of medals and collect them all.

Also, banishing the item carriers gives you a larger shot power up than the small ones they normally release.

Bosses seem to have a lot of scoring potential with garegga style destructible bits on them that give points but piss off the boss even more.

Any more information would be much appreciated.

[Icarus]

For beginners (I don't think it's made totally clear above) medals are gained by holding down fire (banishing) ground enemies, with the value going up after every time you reveal a group of medals and collect them all.

You're close. Banishing ground based enemies does release Medals, but Medals only go up in value if you completely destroy a group of ground enemies with Banish. If you destroy a single tank in a group with Shot and Banish the rest for example, you'll only get Medals at current value.

However, you can use Shot to blow off a turret, then Banish the body of the enemy, and still get the Medal increase. Perhaps a good (but difficult) strategy to use to conserve Banish power.

Bosses seem to have a lot of scoring potential with garegga style destructible bits on them that give points but piss off the boss even more.

Although it is unverified, I have noticed that certain enemies and boss parts give you more points if destroyed with Banish. Some enemies release extra items if Banished as well. (The jet boosters on the stage2 boss' jet form, for example)

The destructible boss bits do operate similar to Garegga, in that destroying certain parts will activate others. Therefore similar tactics of destroying one side of a boss first before the other can be effective here.

I think the most difficult thing about Cyvern is managing the Banish meter. Since grabbing powerups increases the Banish meter proportional to the size of the powerup, leaving powerups to float about until requred becomes important.

[landshark]

This game is full of brutally hard bosses. They are actually BOSSES. No quick kills here.

[Icarus]

First things first: DO NOT PICK UP ALL OF THE SHOT POWERUP ITEMS! I cannot stress this enough just how important it is that you leave powerups onscreen. This is because you will need them at all times to charge your Banish attack, do not rely on damaging enemies with Shot to charge the Banish. Because of this, always destroy item carriers and particular enemies with Banish to force them to drop large Shot powerups, which will completely charge the Banish attack if collected.

Okay, confirmed: certain enemies and boss bits will give you more points if destroyed with Banish. I was wondering why my score would fluctuate by several 100k at the end of stage 2 - I've managed to hit 2mil after killing the boss, but have dropped as low as 1.65mil before - and it would appear that this is the cause. Always use Banish on boss sections when possible, not just for the extra attack power and range, but because you can get more points.

Stage 1 upper limit must be around 1mil. My best is 910k.

To get the green version of the first boss, you must do two things:
- wait until the smaller green train at the start of the stage has come out of the tunnel fully, and then destroy the engine with Banish (five Medals)
- destroy the flying blue aircraft in the middle of the stage with Banish
- at the end of the stage, before the boss appears, there is a group of red tanks to the right of the screen, followed by a green tank. Banish the green tank.

To reveal a 100k Medal near the start of stage2, destroy the large yellow plane on the left first with Banish, then the right side yellow plane with Banish.

The two grey and one blue flying dragon things before the boss - the ones that fire entrapment patterns - will drop items ifyou destroy them completely with Banish.

Destroy the jet engines on the first form of the stage2 boss with Banish to make it drop items. Same goes for the two large round turrets on the back of it's second form.

[BulletMagnet]

First things first: DO NOT PICK UP ALL OF THE SHOT POWERUP ITEMS! I cannot stress this enough just how important it is that you leave powerups onscreen.

This is true, but I believe (correct me if I'm off) that said items, if left alone for too long, WILL float offscreen on their own, so make sure that if you're going to save 'em that you know how long you have before they're gone.

[Shatterhand]

It's true, power up items do dissapear after sometime.

When you have two items floating on screen, you have to pay attention which one is on screen for a longer time, so it should be the next one to be picked up.

One little tip that may help you is that if one powerup item passes over the other, the one which stays BELOW is the older one.

There's a 100k medal in level 3 too. Those 2 big tanks with ugly faces right after the insects attack, they can give you one. You just have to banish the RIGHT one, get the medal, then banish the LEFT one.

Also, just a small correction, but not only you have to destroy a full group of enemies to raise the medal value, but you you also have to collect all medals before destroying the next group. This can make a big difference in your score in level 1.....

[destructor]

To get the green version of the first boss, you must do two things:
- wait until the smaller green train at the start of the stage has come out of the tunnel fully, and then destroy the engine with Banish (five Medals)
- destroy the flying blue aircraft in the middle of the stage with Banish
- at the end of the stage, before the boss appears, there is a group of red tanks to the right of the screen, followed by a green tank. Banish the green tank.

Hello Icarus,

You are wrong Icarus. How get green version first boss I wrote on MARP forum:
http://forums.marpirc.net/viewtopic.php?p=37502#37502
1. Must get 12 small powers (1 big power = 4 small powers) with one life (if you lose life power counter reset to 0).
2. Must get bomb (from blue ship) before boss appear.
3. Can't throw any bomb before boss appear

Today I found that we can change color for second boss too, but I don't know where is key. All info with inputs and screens is on MARP forum.
Discussion begins from this place:
http://forums.marpirc.net/viewtopic.php?p=37429#37429

destructor

[Icarus]

Hmmm, makes sense. I trigger the green train 99% of the time now anyway, so I am oblivious to the trigger mechanisms. ^_-

Nice discusion you have going at MARP. I'd be interested to know how to unlock the red form 1-2 boss, since the red form is a higher scoring one.

Maybe No Miss and all big Shot powerups are the key? I've never actually had the red form second boss, but usually I end up having to get small powerups from the carriers at times.

[DEL]

Icarus - How do you negotiate the sperm things before the last Boss? I've never had a good strategy for them & haven't read "Cyvern Maniax" guide.

I'd also like to know about triggering the 1-2 Red Boss?!


Stage 2-4 was busy to say the least , I abandoned all attempts at scoring and went for survival (which meant that I circled 'over and around' the busy bits with non-stop tanks). This "when in doubt =>circle over" method seemed to work.

An outside chance of a 2-ALL is perhaps possible with a good run & sperm thing method.


For now, I'm going back to A.P.Batrider Advance Course, and will hopefully get it installed in Casino arcade tomorrow.

[Icarus]

-- Spermies in stage5:
For the first wave, you can start halfway up one side of the screen, and slowly work your way down and along the other side of the screen while firing to dodge the bullets. You should clear out the first wave with no problems.

Quick movieclip of the first wave method (XVID - 1.7MB)

As for the second wave, you can either follow the same pattern as the first wave, and bomb at the very last second to clear out the screen (the safe method)...

... or you can follow the same pattern as the first wave, but then stop firing when you reach the middle of the screen, dash up to the other side of the screen, then slowly lead the bullets and sperms back down that side - the slow-moving cutback method (trickier)...

... or you can not fire altogether, and try and pass through the gaps in the waves of spermies that appear (suicidal method)...

... or you can not fire, start near one corner of the screen and wait for one group to come close. When they get to almost touching distance, dash to the other corner, forcing them to move off the bottom of the screen. Perhaps they won't reappear if they are led off the bottom of the screen. (untested idea)

Remember that they always appear in waves of about 5-6 each time, and explode into a 3-way aimed bullet pattern when destroyed. It is entirely possible to lead their bullets around the screen and dash through the gaps, but they wil continue to chase you if you move around a lot, and they don't give up. you MUST destroy them >_<#

-- Red form stage2 boss
I'm not sure, but I think a No Miss, all big powerups is the unlocking key. I think the No Miss must start from stage1. I haven't tested it out myself, though.

I think I prefer the regular form stage2 boss, as it's easier to milk points from it. ^_-

[DEL]

Thanks Icarus! I'll try the firing side to side method. Previously I've performed the suicidal method, not firing - starting from the side & circling round in a tight circle & letting the waves disappear off the screen when the new waves arrive. This is tight as Hell though & I rarely pull it off.

Cheers, DEL

(Ps. OFF TOPIC - I've got A.P. Batrider installed in Casino now and ill6 has brought down ESP Galuda for installation this weekend. Advance Course ST7 Pre-Boss 'Discharge' took me down on the weekend - I'll keep trying).

[destructor]

-- Red form stage2 boss
I'm not sure, but I think a No Miss, all big powerups is the unlocking key. I think the No Miss must start from stage1. I haven't tested it out myself, though.

I check it and don't work. Check with throwing bomb and without bomb before boss. Hm...

[destructor]

-- Red form stage2 boss
I'm not sure, but I think a No Miss, all big powerups is the unlocking key. I think the No Miss must start from stage1. I haven't tested it out myself, though.

I check it and don't work. Check with throwing bomb and without bomb before boss. Hm...

I notice that we can trigger boss form 2-1 and 2-2 too.

[destructor]

CYVERN - correction (more clear I think) and 2nd boss.

1 big power = 4 small powers

--------------------------------------------
How to trigger 1st boss to green color.
Before boss appear you must on one live:
1. get minimum 12 small powers
2. have minimum 3 bombs in stock
--------------------------------------------
How to trigger 2nd boss to red color.
Before boss (big version) appear you must on one live:
1. get minimum 30 small powers
2. have minimum 3 bombs in stock
3. have 4 lives in reserve
--------------------------------------------

Wait for boss 2-1 and 2-2.

EDIT

I notice that boss 2-1 has 3 forms: brown, green and red. Maybe 1-1 too?

EDIT 2
OK. Next corrections, hehe.
I found something when I work on trigger boss 2-1.
Bosses forms and enemies level depend from:
1. lives in reserve
2. bombs in stock
3. power

I use cheat and manipulate these values.
First what I can say:
1. maximum bomb capacity is 8
2. maximum power (small powers) is 31
3. I don't know what is maximum lives, I know that counter is minimum 24 bit.

I don't know (exactly) what is function which count difficulty level.
I write why I notice. Some values are higher than permissible, I change these in cheats for test only.
Minimums for trigger 1st boss to green color:
li - lives in reserve
bo - bombs in stock
po - my power (small powers counter)

Code: Select all

li bo po
 5  0  0
 2  3 12
 1  3 13
 1  2 16
 1  1 17
 0  7  5
 4  3  0
 3  6  0
 4  3  0
 0  9  0
 4  2  2
 4  1  4
 0  0 17
 0  8  2
 3  5  2
 2  6  6
 1  6  7

Minimums for trigger 2nd boss to red color:

Code: Select all

li bo po
 3  3 30
 2  3 47
 3  2 44
 0  0 53
 1  1 52
 1  0 52
 0  1 52
 0  2 50
 2  0 52
 1  2 50
 2  1 51
 2  2 49

Compare some values for 1st green boss and 2nd red boss:
p1 - power before 1st boss
p2 - power before 2nd boss

Code: Select all

li bo p1 p2
 3  3  7 30
 2  3 12 47
 3  2  9 44
 0  0 17 53
 1  1 17 52
 1  0 17 52
 0  1 17 52
 0  2 14 50
 2  0 17 52
 1  2 15 50
 2  1 16 51
 2  2 14 49

Now I must found function which will show me how CPU count difficulty level.

EDIT
Spermies before last boss are possible to go without bomb, I show it in my inp on stage 2-5.
In this inp boss 2-2 form is with 'tentacles'.
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/3/b/c/dt ... olf101.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... n$&table=y
Boss 2-2

[DEL]

Copy/Pasted from the Hi-Sc thread to help STGT Players:-

Tips
Rapid Medalling
I see that DMC stated that medal recovery is slow on Cyvern. Its actually not if you do things right.
The basics are of course -> laser ground enemies and collect 5 medals before the value can increase. This means you laser rush-and-collect. I stress 'collect' because let's say you die and lose your max medal chain on Stage 4 through being a greedy bastard. Simply respawning and lasering the hell out of all n'sundry will work against you. You'll have minimum 100point medals scattered all the way up the screen. A mess can be created quite easily on dense ground enemy stages like ST4.
However, at the same time, if you start your medal recovery sitting on top of the first ground tank and rush up and collect as you laser, you can actually raise your medal chain from min to max in one extended laser blast (in dense areas that is).
In less dense ground enemy areas, short controlled bursts are wiser.

Score Tip
The Last Boss's final form on both loops has two side pods or 'eyes' surrounding it. These Eyes are worth 100,000pts each. So obviously destroy them before you destroy the central Head.
Cyvern is an oddity in that both forms of the Last Boss on both loops can be quick-killed. You only need to destroy the central Head on both forms to go through. All side pods & eyes are optional extras. It is of course advisable to destroy them for score. This means that you can lose out on 400,000pts if you destroy the central Head before destroying the Eyes on the 2nd form.
So remember the old Gradius II addage: "Shoot it in the Eye!" then "Destroy the Head!"

[Kaiser]

How do you get the 100k medals? Because i'm taking a guess it has something to do with number of collected 10k medals or IT may be with how fast you can get much medals.

[Battletoad]

I think the value of your current medals doesn´t affect the 100,000 point items.

On stage 2, you have to shoot these two starting planes. The turrets can be destroyed with the main shot, but the main body has to be killed with Banish shot. Destroy the left one first, then the right one which will reveal the 100,000 points item. In stage 3 you have to shoot the right whatever (those things that shoot the blue circle-shaped bullets) before before the left one, also both with Banish shot. The midboss in stage 4 also reveals such an item sometimes, but I don´t know how to trigger it.

[Icarus]

How do you get the 100k medals? Because i'm taking a guess it has something to do with number of collected 10k medals or IT may be with how fast you can get much medals.

Neither, actually. Like Raizing games, they require certain requirements done, and all targets need to be destroyed with Banish, not Shot. (That's a rule of scoring in Cyvern, actually - use Banish and get medals from ground enemies, occasionally powerups from air enemies, and what seems like a bigger bonus; use Shot and get nothing.)

Stage 2:
Before the fast chase, destroy the left yellow bomber first, then the right yellow bomber.

Stage 3:
After the bug swarm, destroy the right side "alien tank", then the left side tank.

Stage 4:
Destroy all four turrets and the central core of the midboss.

Stage 5:
1) After the red train (stage2-1 boss early appearance), when the three large green tanks appear, destroy the left side, then right side, then center tank, in that order.

2) After the reappearance of the stage 1-2 boss (slightly upgraded), destroy the right side "alien tank" then the left side tank.

[Battletoad]

Stage 4:
Destroy all four turrets and the central core of the midboss.

Well this doesn´t work always, isn´t there any other requirement?

[Icarus]

Stage 4:
Destroy all four turrets and the central core of the midboss.

Well this doesn´t work always, isn´t there any other requirement?

Works fine for me. There may be a time-based requirement as well, as I tend to stall out the mid-boss by shooting the smaller turrets to recharge my Banish, but most of the time, destroying all four large turrets and the core with Banish gets me the big medal.

[TLB]

No, there's no time limit, as I have a replay where the player milks it for a couple minutes and still gets the medal.

It's likely that you're either accidentally breaking one of the turrets with shot, or a missile is dealing the killing blow instead of your banish shot.

[Battletoad]

Aaah very probably so. Those missiles already stole the 100k item from me several times in the earlier stages. And I also hadn´t thought about the necessity of banishing the turrets from the stage 4 midboss. Just because the regular shot still works fine for the turrets of the planes/tanks in in stage 2 and 3.

[DEL]

More on How to Trigger the ST2-1 Green Train
The ST2-1 Green Train is vital to a score run on Cyvern. Triggering either of the other two trains is basically a disaster.
destructor correctly pointed out that:
Bosses forms and enemies level depend from:
1. lives in reserve
2. bombs in stock
3. power

Compare some values for 1st green boss and 2nd red boss:
p1 - power before 1st boss
p2 - power before 2nd boss

Code:
li bo p1 p2
3 3 7 30
2 3 12 47
3 2 9 44
0 0 17 53
1 1 17 52
1 0 17 52
0 1 17 52
0 2 14 50
2 0 17 52
1 2 15 50
2 1 16 51
2 2 14 49


Now I believe these values to be correct, but you can't pause the Kaneko Super Nova Cartridge on Stage 2-1 and refer to the above chart to see if you need to suicide or collect less Ps. (You can on Mame but let's assume you don't wish to break up the flow).
You therefore need a simpler Rule of Thumb - & from what I've found you can simplify it down to how many lives you have before the ST2-1 Train Boss.
*If you have 4 lives or more then its best to suicide before you reach the Train.
*If you have 3 lives or less, then make sure you don't lose any lives or bomb on ST2-1 before you reach the Train.

4 lives or more will most likely trigger the Red Train, (as I did at the German Meet).
3 lives or less at the beginning of the stage and a loss of a life during ST2-1 = you'll trigger the crappy low scoring Brown Train.

Icarus also pointed out that the Green Boss might need the last Green Tank on the stage to be banished with laser. This may also be true, so its best to not tempt fate and make sure you laser the green tank. It can't hurt and it can easily be missed if you make the mistake of starting your laser on the left red tank.

[captpain]

It seems to me like rank is tied to the number of lives you have in stock. The big red gun emplacements in stage 3 (on either side of the mobile tank with the spinners/missiles/main gun) shoot fewer or more shots depending on how many spares you have, for instance.

I don't think there's any way to leverage this knowledge because the best strategy is probably just keeping all of your lives. Still, potentially interesting.