Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

That'll teach me to not refresh the page for a while. Thanks for clarifying that, Fudoh.

[Lawfer]

The other is an Ikegami TM20-90R Monitor in good condition, 900 lines, made in 2004, with unknown hours and would cost around 300 dollars all together.

This is the TOP OF THE LINE SD CRT from Ikegami, 2004 is also pretty recent, for this model, go for that one.

This is the one from mcdcom, right? This has been for sale for more than a year, I was thinking of picking that one up actually at one point before acquiring my Ikegami HD CRT, if you would like to know how many hours this CRT has, why dont you drop an email to Scott?

[FriendofSonic]

You should at least see some text on the screen (something like RGB NO SYNC). Does the menu come up when you press the dedicated menu botton (on the right-hand side)?

Yeah, there was an issue. The seller walked me through opening up the cover for the PVM, and one of the control boards was cracked. He's sending me another one and is going to walk me through installing it, which is supposed to be easy. Wouldn't surprised me if Fedex dropped it instead of taking care of it, because the seller packed it extremely well.

[MysticSynergy]

This is the one from mcdcom, right? This has been for sale for more than a year, I was thinking of picking that one up actually at one point before acquiring my Ikegami HD CRT, if you would like to know how many hours this CRT has, why dont you drop an email to Scott?

Yeah, that's the exact one. I actually sent them an e-mail and was unable to get the hard number on how many hours the Ikegami had. I may end up going with the BVM in my city if the price is right though!

[FriendofSonic]

Can anyone shed any light on this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191103290413

It's not self terminating, as far as I know, so I can take care of that. I was thinking about tracking one of these down to have a dedicated input for Component outputting systems. Bad idea?

[Ed Oscuro]

It's up to you, though a SCART or BNC / RCA switcher would do just as well and not be tied to Sony monitors specifically. Might be more expensive, depending on what this one comes in for, and what model of switcher you get (I've mentioned the Audio Authority AccessEz 985U, which is discontinued but still available cheaper than a second input board).

[FriendofSonic]

I was thinking it'd be ideal to get a BNC switch box, so I could toggle between RGB and Component, but maybe I should just swap out between the two sets of breakout cables when I need to.

I had component switch boxes already, but I had considered their possible signal loss (they're not the fanciest around and could be prone to that I suppose) The giant one you linked me to looks nice.

[Ed Oscuro]

RCA switch boxes can work fine if you have BNC to RCA adapters. I haven't any experience using it with RGB, but voltages should be about same, so I can't think of why you couldn't plug RGB and component into the box at the same time.

Only thing to consider is that you are going with RGB and component to a common display - I was planning to use the device as a splitter, to go from RGB to two outputs - one for video capture and the other for display on a monitor. Just check that it can do that.

[FriendofSonic]

When you say into the box, what do you mean by that?

It's not a big deal to unplug my BNC--> Scart Breakout cable and switch in my BNC--> Component breakout cable and keep another switch box out of the equation, so I'll stop occupying the thread with a request on how to save seconds of time.

[Ed Oscuro]

Whoops, I just checked the AccessEz and, as I feared, it's a splitter, not a switch, so it's really not relevant to your situation anyway. But you're right - convenience of saving a few seconds probably isn't worth the expense of a switch.

[FriendofSonic]

Whoops, I just checked the AccessEz and, as I feared, it's a splitter, not a switch, so it's really not relevant to your situation anyway. But you're right - convenience of saving a few seconds probably isn't worth the expense of a switch.

The guy who I bought the PVM from (who I just had to sent it back this morning because it took a beating in its innards from CA to AZ ) has the module. He's trying to get 75 for it but maybe he's slip it into the PVM and take a Paypal gift for 40. I could live with that.

Retro Console Accessories also restocked her cables... which I'm super stoked about. I got pretty much the whole damn lineup, so I'm ready to go whenever I get a working PVM. Thanks for the discourse, Ed.

[MysticSynergy]

I've noticed that in some screenshots for the BVM, the menu text that displays is much brighter, and in other screenshots I've seen the text be somewhat darker / more gray. Is there some hidden setting that determines this?

Also, if one were to try and factory reset a BVM would that be advised? Is it as easy as say factory resetting a PVM20L2?

[Ed Oscuro]

Is there some hidden setting that determines this?

Yes, that's called "age and brightness settings of the monitor," and "the settings of the camera used to take the picture," unless I'm misreading you and you're talking about screen grabs from the BVM itself...most screens we're seeing are not actually screen grabs showing the respective brightness of the OSD at a given brightness setting, but photos of the tubes. For example, the auction I bought my PVM off of had photos of the menu text looking a bit bad and off-color, but I chalked this up to the camera not being well set (and it is quite hard actually to manually set up a camera to get a good photograph of just the image, especially if you're like me and always forget to change the metering mode).

[MysticSynergy]

Success! I was able to purchase the BVM20F1U locally and it's in rather good condition. There is a tiny, tiny scratch on the glass on the bottom left side, but it's so minimal when you sit far away you barely notice it. It was manufactured in 2001 and only has 26,000 hours on it!

This beast is much different than my PVM20L2 and I'm trying to figure out exactly what each menu setting / mode does with the manual I found online. I feel a bit overwhelmed as there are SO many different options and things to fiddle around with and coincidentally I have quite a few questions that hopefully someone might answer for me, if you could please!

1.) The monitor came with 4 ohm caps with pink ends which were plugged into the outputs of the Analog RGB board. Could someone explain what exactly these are and why they (ideally) need to be plugged in? I notice that when they are removed, the screen picture or rather the intensity and brightness of the screen becomes much stronger. I can't tell if that's a good thing but when plugged back in the picture becomes much darker. I like the brightness of the screen when the caps are removed, but the menu screen becomes gray and the colors look really washed out / high contrast.

2.) I seem to have three different boards in the back of this BVM. The first is labeled "24N", the next is labeled 20D and the final one doesn't have a name, although it does have RGB inputs. That is the one which I use currently, and can get a solid signal from my RGB consoles. Which board should I be using for exclusive RBG use? Do they all do the same? The 20D is labeled both digital and analog, but I'm not sure what that means exactly.

3.) Fudoh wasn't kidding when he mentioned the kind of customizable ability this monitor has. Which color temperature preset should I go with? STD, COL1, COL2? Should I pull up a color test pattern and use the auto calibration to make sure that it's just perfect?

4.) What is the consensus on keeping the monitor plugged in? When I use the control module to turn it off, it goes into "standby" mode. Is this normal? Shouldn't the monitor turn off completely?

I feel like I'm learning how to drive when I mess around with this, but it's so exciting and such a powerful piece of equipment. Even as of right now, the picture quality is breathtaking. I finally understand now how much of a difference a BVM is over a PVM (don't get me wrong, I've seen some amazing 20L5's!)

tl:dr: What are some tips / tricks I should do first and foremost to get this BVM up to speed, looking bright, correct color and settings I may need to tweak?

[Ed Oscuro]

2.) I seem to have three different boards in the back of this BVM. The first is labeled "24N", the next is labeled 20D and the final one doesn't have a name, although it does have RGB inputs. That is the one which I use currently, and can get a solid signal from my RGB consoles. Which board should I be using for exclusive RBG use? Do they all do the same? The 20D is labeled both digital and analog, but I'm not sure what that means exactly.

Look up the part numbers online, if the labels on the back aren't descriptive enough. I don't think that 20D is going to be useful for your console RGB though.

looking bright

Don't rush to push it up to max brightness and contrast - that'll just reduce the lifespan of the unit. Just tweak it to where you need it, instead, if needed.

correct color and settings I may need to tweak?

Find the service manual.

[BubbaMc]

Maybe you can invest $30 for a proper sync processor instead using a T-connector to combine syncs ? This said, I don't know though, if the BVM can work with HD RGB signals. If you transcode to component, it'll work for sure.

Where are these $30 sync processors that you speak of?

I need one too, for Dreamcast VGA signals and also PC signals. Have found a schematic online but I'd rather not build one if it can be bought easily.

Here's the schematic for anyone interested: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2rgbs.html

[Fudoh]

Where are these $30 sync processors that you speak of?

just check ebay.com for "Extron RGB". You can usually pick one up for $10-15... Don't know about Australia though or the shipping costs to get one there...

[BubbaMc]

Those will do nicely, thanks

[BubbaMc]

What's the best place to find the Pioneer PDP-V402 plasmas?

I've been looking for over a year and haven't seen a single one for sale.

[Thamiel]

What's the best place to find the Pioneer PDP-V402 plasmas?

I've been looking for over a year and haven't seen a single one for sale.

Rare as hens teeth here in Australia. Best place to find them is Fudohs house I reckon!

[FriendofSonic]

Stupid question, but how do I know if my input is self terminating? I got a super cheap BKM 129x add on module, and I've heard two things-- it self terminates, and that it doesn't. Can I hook up to it, and if it works fine, I can assume it self terminates? Or is there a danger to that?

[BubbaMc]

Stupid question, but how do I know if my input is self terminating? I got a super cheap BKM 129x add on module, and I've heard two things-- it self terminates, and that it doesn't. Can I hook up to it, and if it works fine, I can assume it self terminates? Or is there a danger to that?

No danger, go for it.

What's the best place to find the Pioneer PDP-V402 plasmas?

I've been looking for over a year and haven't seen a single one for sale.

Rare as hens teeth here in Australia. Best place to find them is Fudohs house I reckon!

Have you ever seen any available here? I'm wondering if they were ever sold in the first place.

[Ed Oscuro]

Can I hook up to it, and if it works fine, I can assume it self terminates?

If it works fine, it works fine; no fiddling required. If you get interference or strange patterns then look into buying some terminators.

[FriendofSonic]

Thanks guys! I appreciate it. I figured it'd be safe, but last thing I wanted to do was fry my cheap find.

[Thamiel]

Stupid question, but how do I know if my input is self terminating? I got a super cheap BKM 129x add on module, and I've heard two things-- it self terminates, and that it doesn't. Can I hook up to it, and if it works fine, I can assume it self terminates? Or is there a danger to that?

No danger, go for it.

What's the best place to find the Pioneer PDP-V402 plasmas?

I've been looking for over a year and haven't seen a single one for sale.

Rare as hens teeth here in Australia. Best place to find them is Fudohs house I reckon!

Have you ever seen any available here? I'm wondering if they were ever sold in the first place.

Once, like 4 years ago.

[Lawfer]

Is there some hidden setting that determines this?

Yes, that's called "age and brightness settings of the monitor,"

Age? Does a monitor with more age will have a lower brightness even though it is on a high brightness setting?

[22point8]

Its to do with how used the phosphors are, and much the heating element is stripped of ion/atoms whatever. As the electronics age things like the contrast control will cause blooming and loss of focus at ever decreasing levels to the point where you have to have the contrast so low the monitor is really dull. But also other things like whether you use RGB or component will affect light output, my 2044QM is only 40 cdm2 in RGB, but 80 cdm2 in component, but then the colour decoding is a bit off so reds aren't exactly red like on RGB.

[22point8]

There isn't that much you can do, just have the contrast low enough that the screen is bright enough to play on, and not bloom. If a screen is 25 years old and has been used 24/7 all that time its going to be really dull. My PVM 2044QM at 80cdm2 is fine, its 24 years old, I bought it off a ebay seller that subtitled corporate training videos, from the picture on ebay and the dust on it when it arrived it hadn't been used in years, but had obviously been used a lot in its day. It must have been serviced in its lifetime because the inside was really clean. I also have a 1454qm thats 18 years old and has a battered outside but had obviously hardly been used. Contrast in the menu at 0 was measured 200cdm2, -74 was 120cdm2.

Basically if you crank up contrast to maximum you can achieve ridiculous levels of light output, even on a 24 year old tube. The issue is the brighter the screen the faster the phosphors are used, and even if preservation doesn't matter the picture would look shit anyway because the beam will be out of focus.

[Ed Oscuro]

It must have been serviced in its lifetime because the inside was really clean.

Might have been rack-mounted and just not allowed to accumulate a lot of dust, though the outside of a CRT does tend to accumulate a layer of black dust by static attraction over the years.

CRT phosphor degradation (for at least some types) is described here (under ZnS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor#P ... egradation

[FriendofSonic]

Got my 20l5 back, and the menu is shaky. Another thread on here is leading me to believe that shouldn't be happening. Man, I already sent it back once before because it got busted during shipping.

I'm also getting an all green heavily distorted picture when I use RGB, but that might be user error on my end or something with my cables, so I'm still trying to figure that out. But can anyone confirm that the shaky menu is indicative of a problem?