Gradius V & R-Type Final.

[ST Dragon]

It's not clear in that article if the “archaic design" quote is referring to the graphics design or to the gameplay & level layout.

Graphics are top notch, (especially the desert version of level 2, is one of the most inhospitable & harsh look desert stages I've encountered in a shooter) so surely they can't be considered "archaic", but as far as the gameplay department goes, I would say that it is as memorisation heavy as the rest of the series were.
The annoying check points are something that belongs to the 80’s arcades which would force the players indirectly, to pump more coins into the machine.
So it’s surprising to see this feature still utilized in a modern console shooter like R-Type Final, whilst the other great “representative” of the check points era (Gradius V), has abandoned them.

[SteevTee]

yeah, that is useful, just the Vic itself loses all it's power-ups, like speed increases. This is not good for the speed zone, or any bit of the game where quick movements are required!

Edit - R-Type without checkpoints? Now THERE'S an idea...

[ST Dragon]

Another thing in G V which is annoying, is the respawn option (which admittedly can be switched to the checkpoint mode). If you die in, say the asteroid boss bit, you're pretty much screwed, perhaps a few powerups could be spewed from your ship upon death, to give you a bit of a chance.

After you die, you still have a chance to recover all your options while they're still on screen. This was one of the best changes in Gradius V. It makes recovery from death much more manageable than others in the series, in my opinion.

This was not a change, but rather a re-use of a long forgotten feature, all ready utilized in Life Force (NES)
But in Life Force, the “options” had a tendency to fly away from the screen much faster than in GV, so you would have to race anxiously in order to catch them before they disappear. Lot’s of fun!
But not quite, as funny as getting stuck in a boss fight with no options, 4 lives & 3 more credits to waste!

[SteevTee]

But in Life Force, the “options” had a tendency to fly away from the screen much faster than in GV, so you would have to race anxiously in order to catch them before they disappear. Lot’s of fun!
But not quite, as funny as getting stuck in a boss fight with no options, 4 lives & 3 more credits to waste!

A boss fight with no options is like having a red-hot poker slowly pushed through your eye and into your brain. Ironically, not too dissimilar to how you defeat the final boss in Gradius V.

[snap monkey]

Another thing in G V which is annoying, is the respawn option (which admittedly can be switched to the checkpoint mode). If you die in, say the asteroid boss bit, you're pretty much screwed, perhaps a few powerups could be spewed from your ship upon death, to give you a bit of a chance.

After you die, you still have a chance to recover all your options while they're still on screen. This was one of the best changes in Gradius V. It makes recovery from death much more manageable than others in the series, in my opinion.

This was not a change, but rather a re-use of a long forgotten feature, all ready utilized in Life Force (NES)
But in Life Force, the “options” had a tendency to fly away from the screen much faster than in GV, so you would have to race anxiously in order to catch them before they disappear. Lot’s of fun!

Yeah, I know, but this was the first time it was ever implemented in a Gradius game. I thought Life Force was more or less the western version of Salamander, which is very similar to Gradius, but ultimately a different series. Just to split hairs

[ST Dragon]

Isn't the Vic Viper the starring craft in Life Force / Salamaner series?
Also in Salamander 2?

[captain ahar]

nope dude. thats the lord british.

[SteevTee]

I want a Salamander/Life Force game for the next gen.

[ST Dragon]

nope dude. thats the lord british.

Ah.. thanks for clearing that up.

"lord british" that's a cool name for a craft
Where does the name come from anyway?

[captain ahar]

i think its named after richard garriot. i hear konami were big on apple programmers who happened to be the son of an astronaut...

no, i have no idea.

[Dartagnan1083]

yeah, that is useful, just the Vic itself loses all it's power-ups, like speed increases. This is not good for the speed zone, or any bit of the game where quick movements are required!

The Speed Zone is the only area where I need speed-ups, even if I die, I know there are assloads of Red enemies there so I can revover easier than elsewhere.

I normally use only 2 speed ups total.

[extrarice]

...R-Type is slow, plodding, and memorization heavy; don't waste your time with its archaic design. . .

I was livid when I read that. Ok, they are not the fastest of games, but to say they are archaic is daft. Just think of the inovations in the series, which although some may have not been original, certainly perfected their usage.

Phew, sorry if I ranted.

I think it's truly a mistake to compare the two series' against eachother in terms of which one is better, and does them both a great disservice. The two lines are fundamentally different animals with entirely different design philosophies at their cores.

The Gradius line of shmups is based on one thing: power and reflexes. What you need to succeed is max power and twitch reflexes. Not a whole lot of emphasis is placed on strategy - it just comes down to "Shoot The Core", as GV reminds us every stage.

The R-Type line is pure strategy and planning: should I place the force on the front, the back, let it fly free, attach it to an enemy, use it offensively or defensively, etc. There are hectic twitch portions to the game, but more emphasis is placed on planning your attack rather than simply brute force (pardon the pun).

In Gradius you simply destroy everything around you, while in R-Type you must work with your environment. While different styles of play will appeal to different types of people, I think it's a shame to discredit a series that simply requires a different mindset than what you want to give it.

[MSZ]

Isn't the Vic Viper the starring craft in Life Force / Salamaner series?
Also in Salamander 2?

Vic Viper is the starting ship in Salamander 1 and 2. Lord British is the 2P ship in Salamander, Super Cobra is the 2P ship in S2.(Unlike Lord British, Its just a Vic Viper in red)

[ST Dragon]

Now that you mentioned it, isn't Lord British the 2nd player ship in the Gradius Series as well?
I know that it also makes an appearance in the Parodius series as the 2nd craft.

[MSZ]

Now that you mentioned it, isn't Lord British the 2nd player ship in the Gradius Series as well?
I know that it also makes an appearance in the Parodius series as the 2nd craft.

Only in Gradius Gaiden. There is no second ship in Gradius I - V.(in GV the 2P ship is just a red Vic Viper.)

[FatCobra]

Whenever I hear the name Lord British I think of the king from the Ultima series. Prehaps the guys at Konami were Ultima fans at the time they wanted to create a different craft for player two?

If you like unlocking stuff and slower-paced shmupping, Final is better.

If you're looking for some good gameplay, Gradius V is better.

[Shatterhand]

So I guess we all should play G-Type and be happy forever.

[SteevTee]

... it just comes down to "Shoot The Core", as GV reminds us every stage.

Or shoot the Cell, as I believe it says at the stage 4 boss...

[MJR]

So I completed R-Type Final.
It took me some time to figure out what I had to do in the Final Bydo Boss.

But WTF?
Where is my cool FMV ending sequence with the R-9 flying the hell out of the exploding Bydo Core & the nice epic / dramatic music following the blast like RayStorm?
All I get is a brown tunnel with the R-9 floating inside it!?

It's not supposed to end like this. It smells like rotten meat but I think I got ripped off in that aspect.
Unless of course I'm missing something?

To me the main thing R-Type Final needed was more levels. I would have liked more branches so that you could exploit all the different ship abilities in cooler ways. I do like the darker, Last Resort-like asthetic more than Gradius V's setting though.

You should play more, R-type final indeed has branching level system. There is a very very nice ending if you manage to get into *spoiler* outer space

I stopped playing once I completed the R-typer difficulty, but I got a itch to play for points..

What do you say if I set up R-type final scoreboard for the high scores section? is anyone willing to contribute?

[Ghegs]

What do you say if I set up R-type final scoreboard for the high scores section? is anyone willing to contribute?

Didn't Final do that weird randomizing of the score at the end of each level? The last few digits get suffeled around for no apparent reason. Weird.

[Accutron]

Now that you mentioned it, isn't Lord British the 2nd player ship in the Gradius Series as well?
I know that it also makes an appearance in the Parodius series as the 2nd craft.

Only in Gradius Gaiden. There is no second ship in Gradius I - V.(in GV the 2P ship is just a red Vic Viper.)

Lord British is also an available craft in Solar Assault Revised...

[MJR]

What do you say if I set up R-type final scoreboard for the high scores section? is anyone willing to contribute?

Didn't Final do that weird randomizing of the score at the end of each level? The last few digits get suffeled around for no apparent reason. Weird.

Randomizing? It does shuffle the score before giving the final amount, just like in the first rtype, but that is just a visual effect and has nothing to do with the actual scoring system. Edit: I think it is done just to give player the impression that 'game is calculating your scores' which is of course silly, but yeah, I think this is what it is trying to visualize

I find the score attack per level to be bit naff, so I think it would be more fun to have highscores as a one game played in total, only how to define the rules would be the question because the ship changing/unlocking thing might unbalance things favourably towards those players who got them all..
My suggestion for rules would be to use the basic first ship only, human level, no changing ships allowed (because you could dance through the whole game with ships like eclipse or any ship that has the giga wave cannon)

[MSZ]

Lord British is also an available craft in Solar Assault Revised...

Oh yea I forgot about those 2 3D Gradius games.

Can those be counted as shmups?

[ST Dragon]

Very interesting.
On what system was it released by the way?

[captain ahar]

yeah, i am foolish. thanks to msz for setting the record straight on the lord british...

[MSZ]

Very interesting.
On what system was it released by the way?

PCB only.

[ST Dragon]

thanks

[Blade]

My opinion of R-Type Final is most likely not as brutal as some others might be as I don't really care about the minor things e.g. checkpoints or whathaveyou.

I think RTF is one of those games that is intended to be geared towards dedicated Irem fans of the series, it's hard enough where I have trouble getting through past the second stage. Slowdown mostly occurs in highly populated (read: lots of enemies/bullets) areas. As far as I'm concerned RTF is "good enough" especially considering how hard it is to get shmups around here in the states.

I would say that this game might be more suited toward the PSP than PS2.

[ST Dragon]

I would say that this game might be more suited toward the PSP than PS2.

What makes you say that?
I don't think it would look as impassive graphically on the smaller PSP screen.

[tiktak]

Is it possible to 1cc this game on Human? This game is so damn hard + hit point is wicked;o Anyone know are there any vids of RTF availible on net?