Image Anyplace IA-100 alternative for DVI mirror flip?

[alamone]

Quick question for those that might be more familiar with scalers than I am;
I have a DBAC PCB and the 2nd screen is flipped horizontally for the half-mirror.
In order to use it with two regular monitors side by side you have to flip the right screen.
The Image Anyplace IA-100 has functions for horizontal flipping under geometry.

I'm using the Image Anyplace IA-100 with latest firmware but it has a problem:
the input resolution is not detected correctly (1024x768 or XGA instead of 1336x768 or WXGA).
As a result, the aspect ratio is wrong and the right side of the picture is chopped off.

I can resolve this by converting the DVI signal to VGA before feeding into the IA-100.
It is still detected as 1024x768, but it at least captures the entire image at the right aspect ratio.
However, the conversion to VGA degrades the signal quality obviously.

Given the age of the unit, I doubt this can be resolved by fixing the firmware,
so are there alternative hardware solutions that may resolve this issue?

[Fudoh]

The only other two solutions I could think of are a) the Datapath x4 (see http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/datapath.html ) or b) a capture card like the Startech PCEXHDCAP in a barebone PC. a) is considerably more expensive.

I'm surprised that the PCB doesn't offer different video output options for the 2nd screen.

[alamone]

Video settings are hardcoded, after all it expects a certain standard configuration in the cabinet.

Obtaining a Datapath X4 looks pretty difficult, are there any other alternatives?
If I were to use the capture card method, what would be the best way to quickly flip and display the video?

[Fudoh]

Obtaining a Datapath X4 looks pretty difficult, are there any other alternatives?

The x4 is available new (at a price). There's the SOIA successor (IVP-1 Image Anyplace), but most units aren't equipped with the geometry options.

If I were to use the capture card method, what would be the best way to quickly flip and display the video?

live processing in any capture or video tool. Avisynth, VLC, anything.... The Startech card is about $110-120, so if you got a PC nearby, it's certainly worth a try.

[emphatic]

How about using a mirror?

[alamone]

A half-mirror is obviously the best solution but a half mirror of the right size is gonna be quite expensive...

[alamone]

I put in an order for a Hall Research SC-HDMI-2A which has image flipping.
The 1366x768 resolution is not explicitly listed in the supported resolutions so it's a bit of a gamble here.
If it doesn't work there's a 90 day return policy.

[Fudoh]

interesting find! Did you find a used one or did you pay the new price ?

[alamone]

Ordered direct from the manufacturer. A little pricey but not as pricey as a Datapath X4.
I found it by searching for teleprompter processors, since those need to flip the screen too.

[alamone]

Just like to note that I tested flipping with VLC.
While it does work, the latency is way too high to consider this as an option.
Also, it tends to stutter and drop frames, even on my i7-2600k rig.
I think a dedicated hardware flipper is the only feasible option.

Edit: OBS has a much faster preview compared to VLC, but it still stutters and drops frames.

[Fudoh]

Avisynth should be nearly lagfree. http://avisynth.org.ru/docs/english/cor ... s/flip.htm

[alamone]

I've used avisynth for post-processing, but how would this work for live video?
I tried making a graph file with the capture devices and opening it as a directshowsource in an avs file
and then opening the avs file in MPC, but it did not work. Also trying to open the capture devices
directly from MPC does not work either. Can't create video capture filter.

[Fudoh]

It's been a very long time since I did this last.

You usually create a .grf file using graphedit, which links to your capture card's input. Then you create an .avs file using directshowsource ("xxx.grf".....) and the additional filters. To view the stream you just open the .avs file in the video player of your choice. MPC is usually best since you have the best control over rendering pipelines which might account for different amounts of lag.

Sorry that I can't be of more help - it's really been years. There should be massive web resources out there, just google a bit.....

[alamone]

Received the unit, it works perfectly... other than mirroring along the wrong axis (Y axis instead of X axis).
Left a message with support, waiting to see what they can do about it...

[Fudoh]

oh, so DBAC does actually output one monitor upside down ? From the description of the unit (telepromter use) it was pretty clear that it does horizontally mirror the image (lef -> right / right -> left).

[alamone]

On the real cab, the left monitor is mounted straight in front, and the right monitor is mounted on the bottom, and a half-mirror is set at a 45 degree
angle between them, the result is that you see a single uninterrupted widescreen display. For this to work, the right monitor must be flipped along
the horizontal axis (top to bottom -> bottom to top) so that when it passes through the half-mirror it is the correct orientation.

The company just told me that all of their devices only mirror along the vertical axis (left to right -> right to left).
Looks like I'm still on the lookout for a good solution, but until then VGA input to the IA-100 will have to do. It actually
doesn't look that bad but it's a little bit fuzzy compared to the razor sharpness of straight digital DVI.

[Fudoh]

Is the lag introduced by the SOIA noticable on this setup ? (Left monitor vs. right monitor ?)

[alamone]

There's some slight lag, maybe 1-2 frames, but it's not noticeable during gameplay.
It's mostly noticeable with flashing text, like "INSERT COIN", you can see that the right screen
lags behind the left screen very slightly when the text appears.

I found another potential device that may work, it's a bit more expensive but it says
explicitly it supports top-bottom mirror flipping.

http://colorado-video.com/hi-def-video- ... rices.html

I sent an inquiry to the company regarding whether the 1330x768 resolution will be supported properly.

[alamone]

Bump... the device from Colorado Video "works", with some caveats:

1. Output resolution does not match input resolution. Instead you select from a list.
The closest resolution is 1366x768 60hz (there is no 1360x768 selection).
You can also select 1080P. However there appears to be a framerate conversion to 60FPS,
as I notice some minor stuttering on the right LCD that does not occur on the left LCD.
(The actual framerate is 59.9405 hz, or I guess NTSC timing. Output is 60hz.)
This stuttering actually happens on the IA-100 as well, I guess I just didn't notice it till now.

2. It does not remember the settings. If you power it off, you have to manually
set the mirror flip setting again.

3. Adds HDCP to the output, even when the input has no HDCP! I'm using a HDMI splitter to
my capture card so this isn't a big deal, but this is just silly.

On the plus side, latency is very low - seems faster than the IA-100, and scaling quality is fairly good.

Nevertheless, since it's not a perfect solution I'm inclined to return it and either:
1) go for their more expensive model (over a grand...), which matches the input resolution and remembers the settings, or
2) just live with my IA-100 (the cheap route).

[emphatic]

If all of this is just to capture gameplay video, why not just flip the other half in post production? Or is it for live streaming?

[alamone]

It's not to capture, it's to display the video. Using a capture card to display video is problematic because
the framerate is not going to be the same, and you get stuttering and dropped frames.
That's why I'm looking for a dedicated hardware solution for video flipping.
The IA-100 would have been perfect if it detected the DVI resolution correctly.

I've already done some livestreaming with OBS, it already has a built in mirror flip function.
While it works, the two video sources are slightly out of sync which causes tearing in the middle, but it's good enough for streaming.