Looking after CRTs

[andykara2003]

Hi, what are the best ways to preserve our consumer CRTs?

For starters, I'm thinking not to turn them completely on & off too often... I.e. I've heard that they get less wear starting up from standby rather than by the main on/off button. Is this true?

Also I guess leaving bright static images on the screen might not be a great idea - and that high brightness & contrast levels won't help.

Anyone know a bit about this?

[fagin]

Andy - you've gotta stop worrying about shite that isn't worth worrying about, switch the fecking thing on and PLAY SOME GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apart from static images, ignore the rest of the crap you've alluded to. I have set's here that are older than god's dog and they continue to work with no anal userguides required.

If you're that worried just buy a couple of them in case one breaks.

[Ed Oscuro]

If the set isn't connected to the mains you won't lose it to a freak lightning storm.

[fagin]

We don't tend to have issues like that in the UK.

[Ed Oscuro]

But yes, contrast and brightness (especially brightness) down from the maximum is usually considered a good idea for keeping it going long.

Standby mode won't help a thing. You still wear the switch every time you turn it on, and so all standby mode is doing is drawing your ~2W of power.

My thoughts about displays are that it depends on how much trouble it would be to replace what you've got, and how much you use it. But unplugging a separate plug from the extension cord to the wall when I'm not using my CRTs is pretty easy.

[speedlolita]

Never use it.

[cools]

If you're that worried just buy a couple of them in case one breaks.

[kamiboy]

Sing nursery rhymes for it in w whisper as you gently wipe it down with a damp cloth. Mine likes teddy bears picnic.

[Lawfer]

For starters, I'm thinking not to turn them completely on & off too often... I.e. I've heard that they get less wear starting up from standby rather than by the main on/off button. Is this true?

Hey is that true? Because I use mine for a day then turn it off with the power button, like for example say I will play for a week, that means I will have to turn it on and off, which is 7 time to turn it on and 7 time times to turn it off (meaning pressing the power button 14 times per week).

[andykara2003]

I'm not entirely sure - I read it somewhere online but thought the guys on here might be able to shed some more light on it. I just bought a brand new Loewe CRT and a brand new Trinitron & would like to know how to look after them - simple as that, really.

[Lawfer]

I'm not entirely sure - I read it somewhere online but thought the guys on here might be able to shed some more light on it. I just bought a brand new Loewe CRT and a brand new Trinitron & would like to know how to look after them - simple as that, really.

The only thing I know is that if you want them to have the longest possible lifespan you would need to lower:

1. Luminance
2. White levels
3. Brightness

The lower these settings are the longest the lifespan of the CRT, the higher these settings are the lowest the lifespan of the CRT.

The big problem is that older games used ALOT of white static screens, especially JRPGs, and that decreases the lifespan of the CRTs.

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDLchYyO4Os

Notice that how at the end of the cutscene the screen remains completely white for a couple seconds? Thats bad for CRTs.

[andykara2003]

Cheers for that - that's pretty much what I'd gathered as well. I'd still like to hear about the powering up thing tho'. I read that the reason that they like to be left on standby is that it keeps the coil warm - apparently the coil doesn't like being repeatedly heated up from cold & it reduces the life of the CRT. I'm sceptical of these kind of statements people post online though so maybe someone else knows about this?

[Ed Oscuro]

Not sure what's meant by standby mode. Looking at the manual for e.g. a KV-27V45, the remote has the following buttons:

Power (turns the TV off)
Sleep (cycles through various numbers of minutes to turn the TV off - 30, 60, 90, and cancel it by pressing again)
System Off (turns off all compatible Sony equipment)

completely white for a couple seconds? Thats bad for CRTs.

If you had the TV on this for hours and hours, maybe.

You can probably increase the amount of time it takes for a set to fade to half brightness significantly by doing the steps you suggest, but let's be clear that a few seconds on full white is not going to age the set appreciably.

[andykara2003]

By standby mode I just meant switching the tv off using the remote rather than using the button on the set...

[Ed Oscuro]

You're executing the identical command...the only thing different is that you're using the remote and not the button on the TV.

To be fair, some face controls are really prone to breakage...but probably not on the average good old TV. I would bet that button will outlive the TV's other components three times over, at least.

[Lawfer]

If you had the TV on this for hours and hours, maybe.

You can probably increase the amount of time it takes for a set to fade to half brightness significantly by doing the steps you suggest, but let's be clear that a few seconds on full white is not going to age the set appreciably.

I know of course, the problem is JRPG and some other games, but especially the JRPG (Suikoden V, Saga Frontier, Tales of the Abyss, Final Fantasy VIII etc.), take Final Fantasy VIII, to finish the game you have to do hundred if not thousands of battles to get the EXP and level up, problem is whenever the game switch to a battle screen the screen becomes completely white for a second, now add 1 second, to say 1000 battles, that means the CRT would have to become completely white for 1000 seconds, that means 16 minutes of full white screen. Would 16 minutes on full white not have a side effect on the CRT?

By standby mode I just meant switching the tv off using the remote rather than using the button on the set...

Know that some stuff (such as subwoofers, I dunno about CRT) dont respond very well to being put in standby mode in the long run, dunno why. For TV CRTs, I always turned them off before and never had any problem with them.

I read that the reason that they like to be left on standby is that it keeps the coil warm - apparently the coil doesn't like being repeatedly heated up from cold & it reduces the life of the CRT.

I read that it was due to them having to degauss each time.

[andykara2003]

I read that it was due to them having to degauss each time.

My gut feeling is that this is right. Nothing you can do about that though..

[Lawfer]

I read that it was due to them having to degauss each time.

My gut feeling is that this is right. Nothing you can do about that though..

Indeed, thats just how CRTs are, the only way to try to avoid this is to leave them on and never turn them off as long as you are going to be using them everyday. Of course, I dont think thats a very good idea to do that...

[Lawfer]

Anyway, I dont think you should be worrying about that stuff too much, CRTs have very long lifespans ranging in the hundred thousand hours, these arent OLED screen that start to wear out between after 10000 to 30000 hours...

[Ed Oscuro]

I thought about degaussing - truth be told I don't think that circuit is too problematic. Does the remote on not activate the degaussing coils or something?

16 minutes of full white screen. Would 16 minutes on full white not have a side effect on the CRT?

16 minutes of aging to the TV Perhaps this is equivalent to a longer period of the TV on and displaying other content.

BTW, I'm not sure if there is a difference between 16 minutes at once or 16 cumulative minutes, but used in screen flashes and the like. It depends on some things that I haven't found any data for: Whether the phosphors actually need a prolonged recovery time, and whether the notable phosphor decay a few scanlines before the active (currently scanned) line is sufficient for this. I will say this, though: Phosphors are commonly made to take sustained agitation and still retain brightness for thousands of hours.

I would be not at all concerned with content so long as burn-in is avoided, and more interested in making sure that brightness and contrast aren't set too high. Incidentally, I think that setting a different white point should just change the balance of phosphor stress, to be more reliant on the blue phosphors for a high setting, and more on the red for a lower color temperature.

[fagin]

Andy,
You need to look at this pragmatically not literally.

I have TV's that are 10+yrs (active life) old. Have been switched on and off (many times a day I suspect) every day of their lives, with the owners not caring for how long they have been on, how long static images have been displayed etc etc. ALL of my TV's are working perfectly.

You have just said you have bought two BRAND NEW TV's..... unless you plan on using the same TV's for the next 20+yrs, seriously don't worry.

[andykara2003]

Andy,
You need to look at this pragmatically not literally.

I have TV's that are 10+yrs (active life) old. Have been switched on and off (many times a day I suspect) every day of their lives, with the owners not caring for how long they have been on, how long static images have been displayed etc etc. ALL of my TV's are working perfectly.

You have just said you have bought two BRAND NEW TV's..... unless you plan on using the same TV's for the next 20+yrs, seriously don't worry.

Cheers mate - point noted

[MKL]

I read that the reason that they like to be left on standby is that it keeps the coil warm

It keeps it cold! With the power switch always on, the PTC is always getting current so it's always hot and its resistance very high and this cuts off current to the coil, hence the coil remains cold/unpowered and no degaussing takes place when you turn the TV on. Several days of no degaussing will likely cause wrong color spots to appear on the picture so you will need to use that power switch anyway. Leaving the TV in stand-by for long will shorten the life of the PTC though (not a big problem). If the claim is that the less you degauss the better it is for the tube/mask, then it's not true.

[andykara2003]

^ Very informative, thanks

[Ed Oscuro]

Leaving the TV in stand-by for long will shorten the life of the PTC though (not a big problem). If the claim is that the less you degauss the better it is for the tube/mask, then it's not true.

This is actually useful. How hard and expensive is it to fix / replace those components? By PTC, are you referring to just the thermistors or the entire degaussing unit - so does replacing the thermistor usually require swapping out the whole unit? It seems to me it shouldn't, but I wouldn't know from experience.

unless you plan on using the same TV's for the next 20+yrs,

So what's the shipment date on those new Sony XBRs, chief? Some people actually are intending on using the same TVs for decades.

[andykara2003]

Some people actually are intending on using the same TVs for decades.

Thanks - this is the whole point of what I'm saying - I'd like to have high quality CRT's for the rest of my life. I'm doing that by:

1: Buying new or low use TV's so they are fresh. A 15 year well hammered CRT may look OK now but what about in 15 years time? I'll never hammer mine the way a living room TV gets used as I only game for 2-3 hours a week and will look after them. In 15 years, my (so far never been used) TV's will still have relatively low hours as I'll never use them to watch TV.

2: Get a couple of backups.

3: Take good care of them.

Searching for and finding these new/little used CRT's is actually really fun for me and doesn't stop me gaming at all.

[Ed Oscuro]

andy, you have a pretty good attitude here. If you've got room, don't let somebody second-guess your dream, and keep having fun!

Ah, I rather regret not knowing about the glory of PVMs back when they were new...it may well have been a good idea to buy one new since I probably would not have put anywhere near the number of hours on one that mine most assuredly has seen. Maybe it's not too late to send them in for servicing..?

However, it must be said that you can love many items (mechanical and electronic) to death with attempts at service. The fact that there are many early-80s PVMs still kicking is a good sign for people with newer ones on the block. Regular consumer TVs may be a different story though - thankfully, I think that even at this late date you can find good ones with a bit of searching. I lucked out with my own kv-27fs120, which appears to have low hours on it and no apparent major problems (though I would like to get that little line on startup sorted...anything hinting at retrace problems can be bad).

Not using these for regular TV viewing will certainly help substantially - playing a few games for 20 hours sounds like a lot, but then compare that to daily use where many people have things on for a near-marathon session...I think there's not much comparison.

Know that some stuff (such as subwoofers, I dunno about CRT) dont respond very well to being put in standby mode in the long run, dunno why.

What's mysterious about it? Components have voltage going through them and might heat up. These things have a lifetime usage expectancy, and using them...guess what, that puts hours on the clock!

Just so we're clear, leaving things on the shelf ages them too. I've never heard that any of these items do better when being used than when not being used...now it's a different story if you're talking about a unit that is particularly susceptible to thermal cycling damage, but many of those are damaged more by high heat levels from staying powered on all the time, than when being allowed to cool off occasionally.

[MKL]

Leaving the TV in stand-by for long will shorten the life of the PTC though (not a big problem). If the claim is that the less you degauss the better it is for the tube/mask, then it's not true.

This is actually useful. How hard and expensive is it to fix / replace those components?

PTCs are inexpensive components but those designed for TVs won't be around forever for obvious reasons. PTCs are rated differently depending on the degaussing coil. A 25ohm degaussing coil requires a different PTC than a 10ohm one for instance. Most PTCs aren't sealed and can be opened. Dual PTC's (the most common TV type) have three solder contacts and two coin-shaped resistors in between said contacts (contact-resistor-contact-resistor-contact). Upon opening the PTC, the resistors may be charred but it's possible to restore them with fine sand paper. Sometimes they are crumbled though and replacing the whole PTC is the only option.

By PTC, are you referring to just the thermistors or the entire degaussing unit - so does replacing the thermistor usually require swapping out the whole unit? It seems to me it shouldn't, but I wouldn't know from experience.

Just the thermistor (little box with two or three legs). A damaged coil is rare.

[Lawfer]

What's mysterious about it? Components have voltage going through them and might heat up. These things have a lifetime usage expectancy, and using them...guess what, that puts hours on the clock!

Just so we're clear, leaving things on the shelf ages them too. I've never heard that any of these items do better when being used than when not being used...now it's a different story if you're talking about a unit that is particularly susceptible to thermal cycling damage, but many of those are damaged more by high heat levels from staying powered on all the time, than when being allowed to cool off occasionally.

No, what I am saying for that some stuff (such as subwoofers) are better left on, instead of constantly put in standby mode then taken out of standby mode each time. And yeah, leave electonic stuff unused for a long time is not good either, they should be powered up from time to time.

[Ed Oscuro]

Can't agree with you there. Subwoofers are different - more susceptible to inrush current for one ("thump"). Nothing that's a problem if you have your setup correctly installed.

Leaving electronic stuff unused is not a problem in of itself - it's not preserved by using it. It's more the matter that you're not getting any use out of it, while normal shelf aging still happens.