Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[__SKYe]

Oh hell yeah, on the first Double Dragon II (FC) run of the day, managed to get the 1CC.

This time, lost 1 life on the conveyor belts (stage 6, I think), another on the ninjas on the last stage, and the last right after, on the penultimate boss.
I now believe that these last ninjas are the hardest enemy in the game. The first 2 ninjas on Stage 2 can be defeated with 2 spinning kicks (like you demonstrated), so I don't have any problem with those, but the last ones are located in a stage where there's depth movement, so it's much harder to hit them with anything.
The penultimate boss (a sort of clone of your character, I presume?) it's not as hard, but I still have some trouble.
I think my biggest issue, is that I still fail the uppercut input too many times. There's definitely much room for improvement there.

Surprisingly, I managed to beat the last boss without losing any lives. The standard jump+kick strategy I posted last time, did indeed do the trick, so I'm pleased with this part at least.

The 1LC looks doable, but I'd have to figure out how to beat the ninjas consistently, and to be more consistent with the uppercut inputs as well.

Still have to try the hardest difficulty later too.

They are - and actually I had no idea until testing out a deliberately risky method today! I might never have known otherwise, haha. Woulda sucked to find out at the end of a 1LC attempt.

When you reached that stage (in the video), that's the first thing I immediately thought. And the platforms seem to move quite a bit fast too, so someone reaching that place for the first time, would be probably in for a nasty surprise.

TBH it's a fairly easy game once you accept i) some parts just demand brute memorising, stage 3 especially, and ii) there are no health pickups, so even easier bits need to be handled carefully lest damage add up. I actually like the second point, keeps things reasonably tense.

No health pickups whatsoever? In any stage? That does make even an average difficulty game, more tense.

I do indeed like the ol heavy' \m/etal! Particularly the earlier 80s' thrash/thrash-inspired stuff, and a bit of bone-jarringly heavy doom too. The genre's ethos is quite similar to that of STGs in a way... lots of focused intensity, emphasis on technique, and quotable quotes. ;3 Venom, Sabbath and Celtic Frost are other frequent occupiers of my final sig line. Been blasting Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and To Mega Therion a lot while commuting lately. Head Crusher's quite the cathartic song. Image KIMB and Peace Sells are the MD records I always come back to, but I think Endgame is pretty great overall.

edit: oh god, that's a Bruce Dickinson quote near the top of my previous post. I do it without even thinking!

Oh damn yeah, thrash metal FTW (along with NWOBHM, etc).
I enjoy most of Megadeth's albums (even the more pop-py ones, though I almost consider them a different genre altogether), but their old stuff will always remain their best, in my opinion.
Rust In Peace, in particular, is everything a thrash album should be like. Marty Friedman did wonders in that album.

[kitten]

Didn't you come this way before, a million years ago?

maankiiiind returns to the staaaars!!

but sometimes... the stars... return to mankind!!



ah, man, a tyranny of souls is a really good album! used to have a phase where almost all i listened to was bruce and iron maiden. haven't checked up on their new stuff in a few years and kind of fell out of ye olde metal zone. put this on a couple months ago, though! all the songs on that album feel strangely video gamey in lyrical theme, to me. luv2blast power of the sun while playing dark souls, haha.

Even a seemingly unfinished, decidedly uncalibrated Sunsoft action game is hard to turn down.

i've always had trouble deciding if it was unfinished or not! it came out a couple months ahead of the gb game and before sunsoft lost the license, but it definitely feels very slightly off and incomplete. i think that they had more time ahead of gb return of the joker to wrap shit up and refine whatever they had, maybe? it's really hard for me to say. there's no weird animation problems or placeholder sounding music, no bizarre bugs or glitches that i'm aware of, and not a terrible amount of unused content. i always felt the unused stuff could just as likely be that they hit their limit and left stuff they couldn't work in there, kinda like the case with metal slug 3 (also intended to have another full stage, but the data just wouldn't fit). perhaps it was unfinished, though!

and, eh, i like it more than rough world (which i always found a bit too... rough) and several others (like metafight, if you want to count that). i love the music and presentation a bit too much ;] heck, i even like it more than gremlins 2, though i couldn't in fair honestly call it better. there's almost nothing in your review i outright disagree with, though. i don't think level 3-1 quite requires too much memorization and more a general idea of "jump and shoot when you move forward, maybe remember a couple points to take pause at," but that's largely because 3-2 has very little to damage you and bosses generously restore your health from like 10 bars to several thousand... points? i do agree that it is a totally shit part of the game that kills it for many, mind you.

TLDR II: Raf World Syndrome, basically!

it's actually "rough" world. to quote sunsoft historian sharc, from elsewhere -

"so, there's a very obscure joke here, and i hope it's news to you because i like telling people about it :V

rʌf world isn't just using a stylized A, it's the IPA symbol ʌ: representing the mid-word "uh" vowel sound in the english pronounciation of blood, love, fun, etc. so phonetically it's r-uh-f world, rough world.

it's an impressively deep cut for a joke, especially from what i assume are non-native speakers! maybe someone at sunsoft took a course on phonetics in college :V

i remember hearing the reason there are all the spoken russian, chinese, etc in arcade strider was because there was a linguistics college down the street or something"

anyway, i'll try and give your play some commentary here in the next day or two, BIL. a tough couple days have left me with a little too low energy to give you the same courtesy i gave skye on his NG run a few pages back. unbelievably, i have limits to my posting energy sorry to have hit them here, since it was me that was talking up this game. about to watch castle of cagliostro with some people, too. i watched a brief bit, though! surprised to see you use the slide as much as you did, i almost forget it's there when not in a couple of platforming bits.

And BIL, you sold me on Ninja Crusaders.
Sure I get that it's not "essential", but with a NES/Famicom collection that's now approaching 200 different games, the standard for being included has to be lowered just a little.

mine broke 300 last year it is by a very large boundary my largest collection. even putting XBLA and 360 titles together into one category, it's still outnumbers them (i went sort of nuts with XBLA as a platform during its earlier years). definitely my largest physical collection, too! i usually try to curate what i buy very specifically and never buy tons of garbage just to take up shelf space, but i've bought a decent chunk of my collection from run-off a friend was ditching. now, my fc collection is full of delightfully weird kusoge and some outright unforgivable trash anlong with it, and to someone unaware of me getting most of these at an excellent price, i probably seem like some sort of demented packrat

his taste is similar to my own, though, so at least everything i purchased was playable to an english speaker and pretty much entirely action-oriented. had a lot of fun playing each of those games i've beaten about 160 (majority, yay!) of the games in my fc/nes collection, have 108 unfinished, and consider the rest (49) to be unfinishable due to overtly quick looping points or endless gameplay without loop points (though i have a few also marked null because i own both the nes and fc version, and don't want to count them as separate entities for completion's sake due to overt similarity). ah, man, i really love that console, and it's the only one i can find energy for to play droves of bad games for. my bad snes/sfc games end up sitting around way longer and with much less affection ;[

now, if only i could find someone selling a ton of their run-off collection for pc engine for low prices, i'd be in offbeat, garbage heaven again

i'm still missing a few notable kuso titles for my fc collection, too! don't even have spelunker, for example. there's offbeat semi-cheap stuff i still want to pick up as well, like layla. aaaaand there's a few rare titles i'm still searching for, like captain saver, moon crystal, and recca. i've thankfully already secured lickle and gimmick, which were deeply up my alley. gosh. gosh!!! what a wonderful library that never stops giving.

The demos in Super Metroid actually show a lot of different things, that are very useful. I love the way the game uses that. You may not notice it the first time you pop the game in, but after having owned it for a while, things start to unveil and you learn stuff. Same with the classic wallclimbing teaching technique.

i love the demo footage in that game a lot, it's very informative. really adds an extra sense of mystery to the world by showing stuff like that off!

Hell yeah, just got the 1LC in Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-kun (FC) on Level-2.

good job! now do loop 3 and you will have absolutely surpassed me in resolve with that game, it is tough! beu's are a weak point of mine, and i lacked the diligence to get good enough to complete that one room with all those stage 2 bosses in it.

anyway, yeah, you've definitely played it enough now to have an opinion: i take it you like it a decent bit? really weirdly decent for such a primordial title, eh?

By the way, are the spikes on the last stage 1HKO? I imagine that those moving patforms part, should prove deadly for the unwary/unexperienced player.

those spikes are indeed instant kills!

Platforming sections (if they exist) must be treated with special care as well.

double dragon II is quite a good bit of fun in co-op, but yeah, the platforming segments are a real killer!

That's very nice actually, I find SOR 2 to be pretty hard (at least for my current level), so you're ahead of me here. I can more or less reach the last stage, but I still find it pretty hard, and I have yet to 1CC it.

oi, thanks. yeah, that last level is a bastard of a stage! i think i made it there with six extra lives and finished my 1cc with only one extra, leftover. not 100% skin of my teeth, but i was seriously gritting my teeth through a few portions and praying the 1cc still came together. that kind of tension really gets your heart pumping. here's a pic from last night to prove i only had the single 1up left, i think i got killed by the reappearance of claw in that elevator (that spinny ninja boss) like 2 or 3 fucking times -



i'd love to get proficient enough at this game to be able to 1cc hardest, and i don't think it's out of the question at all. doubt i'll ever have the patience to do something like the hidden "mania" difficulty, though! i like my streets of rage 2 to mostly be a bit of relaxed engagement, i'm pretty sure that would give me a heart attack. i wanna say that i've 1cc'd SoR1 before, i genuinely can't remember and didn't take notes if i did. should probably play it again until i can do so to definitively kick that off the list, especially with how embarrassingly shoddy my play was with my last attempt. if you're 1cc'ing SoR2, everyone always says max is the best! might be a good place to start. i love axel's grand uppah! a bit too much to put him down, though. everyone always thinks i'd play blaze i never played much of 3, only ever having bought it on the virtual console. i've known a few people to swear by it, but i just couldn't get into it. maybe i should look into picking up a copy of bare knuckle 3, even with how expensive it is.

i think i was able to pull off a 1cc quickly without playing 2 in a while because of having my brawler chops refined a bit recently with TNWA!! that and golden axe

[BIL]

Could practically hear Bruce in that post ^__^ "Mars Within" / "Abduction," helluva one-two ambient/thrasher punch. I consider his solo stuff from AOB to TOS at least as good as the stuff he's done with Maiden tbh. The Chemical Wedding is probably the one album from that entire collective I'd keep, if forced to choose. Heavy, dreamlike and theatrical. I've kinda drifted towards thrashier, doomier or just plain uglier stuff than Maiden in recent years, but that one stays on my playlists.

Don't sweat the run commentary too much, it's pretty much babby's first 1LC. I'm already thinking this is a pretty good (non-speedrunner's) speed game, in spite of all the autoscrollers (reminds me a bit of Super Shinobi II in this regard, another potential classic in need of a tune-up). 5-1 can be taken at breakneck pace, quite thrilling. Ironically, although I dislike the heavy lag on basic movement, it actually keeps the game perilous and interesting to handle in the long run. Post-clear I had this awful feeling I'd just shelled out for a "pretty box with nothing inside," but gradually I'm realising this is as much a "go fast as possible" game as Battle Formula.

Add a couple bosses (or hell, even just one boss palette-swapped and suped-up) to the shumpin' bits and I'd probably be outright loving this, albeit with the aformentioned strong caveats.

I definitely concur with Funkdoc - best slide attack ever. I love tearing enemies apart with it wherever I can, it's just brutal with its total contact invulnerability and explosive speed. Almost Phoenix Force-esque. The way it'll seamlessly "flow" off platform edges with its own dedicated animation is extremely cool and functional, too, as is being able to execute a short variant with the diagonals. Those lurking mutants in 4-1 are prime targets for a vicious decapitating boot at point-blank.

[__SKYe]

good job! now do loop 3 and you will have absolutely surpassed me in resolve with that game, it is tough! beu's are a weak point of mine, and i lacked the diligence to get good enough to complete that one room with all those stage 2 bosses in it.

Haha, thanks. I've yet to try Level-3, and I'm not sure I'll ever clear it, but I certainly intend to try. Seems like a shame to leave it unnattended.

anyway, yeah, you've definitely played it enough now to have an opinion: i take it you like it a decent bit? really weirdly decent for such a primordial title, eh?

Yeah, it's a fun game indeed. It took a while for me to open up to it, primarily because I had yet to get used to the typical Technos games' playstyle.
Playing, and beating Level-2, made me respect and enjoy it even more, as it required more than just the running punch tactic.
Also, even though regular enemies are not too hard, when multiple bosses appear at the same time, there's always a fair bit of tension going on, even if it doesn't appear so to a spectator. Though one can argue that it's just "performing the same attack over and over", actually pulling this off consistently, is much harder than it sounds.
This is one such case where the ability of consistently performing a (somewhat) simple attack, trumps over performing a complex move/combo once.
Sabu also grew on me, as after faling victim to his handgun in my latest few runs, I learned to fear and respect him, as quite often, a small mistake can lead to a death. And with 2 of him on Level-2, that danger goes double.

The separate sections in each level, where you get the HP and time restored when changing, also help make the game fair, and this is especially noticeable on the last stage's maze, as you can go around the maze indefinitely, and never run out of health/time, if you have the necessary skills to do so.
It's like each section is it's own little challenge, and I enjoy that.

For such an early title in the genre, it is perfectly playable and enjoyable.

One little thing I've noticed, is that if you immediately pin an enemy after a knock down, you'll grab empty air, and the enemy will get up anyway (as if you didn't pin him), and can lead to getting hit.
Not anything major, and you can tell whether you are hitting him or not by the (lack of) punching sound, but I had to learn to pace myself into not pinning them too soon.

i think i got killed by the reappearance of claw in that elevator (that spinny ninja boss) like 2 or 3 fucking times -

You mean the Blanka rip-off. Yeah, that guy's a pain in the ass, as are some of the later bosses.
In usual SOR tradition, the boss rush stage is always damn tough.

Although I find SOR1's last stage bosses to be easier than the standard levels in which they appear, due to the lack of helper enemies when fighting them. That is, if you can beat them without using the special, otherwise you are absolutely screwed.

i'd love to get proficient enough at this game to be able to 1cc hardest, and i don't think it's out of the question at all. doubt i'll ever have the patience to do something like the hidden "mania" difficulty, though! i like my streets of rage 2 to mostly be a bit of relaxed engagement, i'm pretty sure that would give me a heart attack.

I believe the single greatest thing needed in order to be able to beat higher difficulties, is the ability to beat the bosses without taking damage.
Although there are obviously, other things to have in mind (like greater number of enemies, more aggressive foes, etc), bosses tend to have very inflated damage (upwards to half your health in a single hit, or much more), so if you have trouble with them in the lower difficulties, and are able to win simply due to having enough lives/abusing special attacks/etc, then beating the harder difficulties will probably not happen.

i wanna say that i've 1cc'd SoR1 before, i genuinely can't remember and didn't take notes if i did. should probably play it again until i can do so to definitively kick that off the list, especially with how embarrassingly shoddy my play was with my last attempt.

If you can 1CC SOR2, then you can most definitely 1CC the first too.
I should also record a run of SOR1, it's been awhile since I last played it.

if you're 1cc'ing SoR2, everyone always says max is the best! might be a good place to start. i love axel's grand uppah! a bit too much to put him down, though. everyone always thinks i'd play blaze i never played much of 3, only ever having bought it on the virtual console. i've known a few people to swear by it, but i just couldn't get into it. maybe i should look into picking up a copy of bare knuckle 3, even with how expensive it is.

I usually play Blaze first, though.
Despite her lack of power (which isn't that bad, really), her speed helps me quite a bit, at least on the 1st game. She also looks better than the others, so it's a win-win situation.

i think i was able to pull off a 1cc quickly without playing 2 in a while because of having my brawler chops refined a bit recently with TNWA!! that and golden axe

That might just be it.
Though occasionally, I find that after not playing a game for a while (not too long, though), runs go better. Only occasionally, though.

EDIT:

Been playing Level-3 for awhile, and it's bloody brutal.

For the first time ever, lost lives on the motorcycle stegment (Stage 2-3), and got a game over there. That section is even longer in L3, and enemies do ridiculous amounts of damage.
Overall, almost all stages require a fast pace to clear, as enemies have huge amounts of HP, and even using pins, you still run the risk of running out of time. This is especially true in Stage 4-1.

The aforementioned rooms with 6 bosses are absolutely, truthfully, ridiculously hard. Half of the tries, I'll run out of time (sometimes for just a couple seconds), others, I'll die due to the increased damage dealt by enemies, and also by rushing, in order to actually be able to clear them within the time limit.
I did manage to clear these rooms a few times, but it's very strenuous. You can have almost no idle time here, as every little break will make you timeout.
Even taking damage and getting knocked out, will make this worse. And simply run+punching alone isn't enough to clear this. You need to try to do this, but to multiple enemies wherever possible, otherwise it becomes really, really hard.

It would be nice if you could pin down bosses when they had a little more HP. It is nice to pummel them when they're almost dying, but it does nothing to help you beat the clock.

The failed pin, I mentioned before (where if you're too fast to pin, you'll grab nothing) gets more aggravating here, as you are truly racing the clock, and sometimes end up losing a few seconds by doing this by mistake.

One new tactic I discovered while playing L3, is that even if you don't have time to pummel a pinned enemy because another enemy is close, by just pinning and letting go, the pinned enemy will take longer to get up, so you'll have a couple more seconds to go after another one.
This may seem a minor thing, but it really helps, because more often than not, the enemies are all close together.

Honestly, if someone wants to know the terror of timeouts, they should play this.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this game for today. I really could use a break.
Even Ninja Gaiden wasn't this stressful.

[kitten]

Could practically hear Bruce in that post ^__^ "Mars Within" / "Abduction," helluva one-two ambient/thrasher punch. I consider his solo stuff from AOB to TOS at least as good as the stuff he's done with Maiden tbh. The Chemical Wedding is probably the one album from that entire collective I'd keep, if forced to choose. Heavy, dreamlike and theatrical. I've kinda drifted towards thrashier, doomier or just plain uglier stuff than Maiden in recent years, but that one stays on my playlists.

balls to picasso and tears of the dragon were rough, yeah. i completely agree that everything after (and including) accident of birth is really good stuff. maybe not quite as good as some of maiden's better albums, but definitely up there. bruce's voice is legendary and it's wild that he's never like totally blown his vocal chords completely out. dude is living the life!

my favorite maiden line i like to quote all the time is:

have you ever felt...

the future is the past...

but you don't know how?!

there is a light corniness to a lot of their lyrical content, but they play it seriously and it's really fun to indulge it. i'm a light fan of multiple genres of music, and i think one of the biggest things that attract me regardless of genre is sincerity and authenticity, and maiden's definitely got that. friends tell me i use that line so much that if i ever make a podcast, i should consider making that bit my opening.

but gradually I'm realising this is as much a "go fast as possible" game as Battle Formula.[/i]

yeah, i feel like its design is somewhat in tune with those other late-life sunsoft action games. gremlins 2 is another "play relentlessly" type of game that has some excellent top-down platforming. you've played that one, right?

Add a couple bosses (or hell, even just one boss palette-swapped and suped-up) to the shumpin' bits and I'd probably be outright loving this, albeit with the aformentioned strong caveats.

I definitely concur with Funkdoc - best slide attack ever. I love tearing enemies apart with it wherever I can, it's just brutal with its total contact invulnerability and explosive speed. Almost Phoenix Force-esque. The way it'll seamlessly "flow" off platform edges with its own dedicated animation is extremely cool and functional, too, as is being able to execute a short variant with the diagonals. Those lurking mutants in 4-1 are prime targets for a vicious decapitating boot at point-blank.

i still have strong caveats with the game, as well, but i've got a definite love for it, despite everything. i'm glad that you were able to get into it with some real gusto. such an absurd, over-the-top, sunsoft as hell kind of game.

i'll maybe try to use slide more on my next play!

Although I find SOR1's last stage bosses to be easier than the standard levels in which they appear, due to the lack of helper enemies when fighting them. That is, if you can beat them without using the special, otherwise you are absolutely screwed.

i feel like if i watched some play before going back to it, i'd probably be able to do much better. a lot of my deaths were from anticipating enemies to do something else or attacking someone the wrong way. things like trying to grab enemies you shouldn't grab, getting too close to bosses to punch them, etc.

I usually play Blaze first, though.
Despite her lack of power (which isn't that bad, really), her speed helps me quite a bit, at least on the 1st game. She also looks better than the others, so it's a win-win situation.

i think she might be better in the first game? i can't remember.

Been playing Level-3 for awhile, and it's bloody brutal.

haha, ain't it? i remember getting to the motorcycle stage and dying there for the first time, too, and being like "holy shit." and, yeah, that 6 boss room is just fucking ridiculous. i can't remember if i ever got past it at all, i'm sure if i did i was quickly dispatched by the next few rooms. if the time limit didn't exist, i'd just be patient, but it absolutely does.

also, i love the whole premise for the first kunio game - you're rescuing your sensitive pal from getting bullied. brings a little tear to your eye. i love the whole delinquent with a heart of gold trope in japanese stuff, it's genuinely heartwarming.

it's total bullshit to me that the us localization of the game went and pulled some stupid damsel-in-distress bullshit. yawn. if i wasn't tired of that because it's sexist, i'm tired of it because it's extremely boring. a guy looking out for his buddy is a perfectly fine premise for a game!!

ah, well. i recently ordered a copy of ane-san, which i can't possibly wait for it to get here seriously, that game seems amazing. maybe not mechanically all that, but the premise really shouts at me.

[M.Knight]

Due to all the activity here, I finally decided to try out the thread's titular game : Ninja Gaiden! (or rather should I say, Ninja Ryukenden as that's the version I am playing) After a bit more than a week of semi-regular play, I can reach stage 4-2 on a single credit, and I have to say it is a neat game! I really don't understand its reputation within the gaming population. Oh well, I guess it's mostly people who never actually played it who spread rumors about its supposedly insane difficulty.

One thing I really like about Ninja Gaiden is that so far, every non-boss enemy only takes one hit to kill. That gives it such a pleasant pacing and pushes you to adopt an agressive approach, moving up to some enemies and killing them before they can do anything. And even bosses are fast-paced!
Subweapons are fun to use and I don't think I encountered one that sucks or should be avoided at all costs. Some are still more useful depending on the situation, but all of them are at least good.

That said, there are a few things I am not too fond of :
-The recovery time really is too low. It is not rare to get pounded twice or more by the same enemy (especially the boxing guys) while trying to recover from the first hit.
-The sword hibox does not seem vertically centered, but slightly upwards to match with the sprite. That tends to mess up my moves when I want to slice an grounded enemy while in a jump right before I land in order to keep up my momentum.
-The backward jump covers little to no distance. I don't use it that much, but it is frustrating for instance when I want to turn and jump at the same time but instead jump first.

[BIL]

balls to picasso and tears of the dragon were rough, yeah. i completely agree that everything after (and including) accident of birth is really good stuff. maybe not quite as good as some of maiden's better albums, but definitely up there. bruce's voice is legendary and it's wild that he's never like totally blown his vocal chords completely out. dude is living the life!

He's aged sublimely well - the end of "Empire of the Clouds" gives me goosebumps.

Incidentally, I recently read an article on metal vocalist technique, where five iconic frontmen (Bruce, Dio, Halford, Ozzy and King Diamond) were rated by a classically-trained voice instructor who'd never heard any. She noted that Bruce innately sings like a trained professional, praising his technique on "The Number of The Beast." I can see how he's stayed fresh over the years, given that (if anything, he was sounding burnt-out in the early 90s... guess he was just affecting that awful rasp).

Other rock/metal icons like Ian Gillan, Axl Rose, oof! Their earlier stuff is immortal, but sooner or later, Mickey Mouse is guesting on vocals! Arrgh!

yeah, i feel like its design is somewhat in tune with those other late-life sunsoft action games. gremlins 2 is another "play relentlessly" type of game that has some excellent top-down platforming. you've played that one, right?

Oh yeah, I love Gremlins 2. The infamous Shitty Tomato makes the first stage rough going, but it's all good times from there. The later weaponry rocks, and the air control is laser-precise. Almost gives me Kiki Kaikai (SFC) good vibes.

The Japanese subtitle makes me smile... "The New Batch" = SHINSHU TANJOU/GENESIS OF A NEW SPECIES

-The backward jump covers little to no distance. I don't use it that much, but it is frustrating for instance when I want to turn and jump at the same time but instead jump first.

Castlevania making its ruthless presence known. Be very careful with the jump, it feels flexible but your back is wide open for the duration.

[__SKYe]

i feel like if i watched some play before going back to it, i'd probably be able to do much better. a lot of my deaths were from anticipating enemies to do something else or attacking someone the wrong way. things like trying to grab enemies you shouldn't grab, getting too close to bosses to punch them, etc.

It also comes from experience, and with a little practice, you'll be running through it in no time.
One thing that is different from the rest of the series here, is that your regular punch has a large range here, so you must remember to throw punches from farther away than you normally would.

i think she might be better in the first game? i can't remember.

She has the weaker power of the three characters (though it's not a big difference, I believe), and the fastest speed.
I used to use Adam, because of his power (which is the same as Axel) and his ability to actually throw a jump kick, as opposed to Axel's jump knee, which has smaller range. Adam is very slow though.
As I got better, and stopped doing so much jump kicks, I gravitated to Blaze, simply due to her speed.
While at first, I never considered speed as an important character's skill, I've grown to appreciate it more, and often choose characters who are faster.

haha, ain't it? i remember getting to the motorcycle stage and dying there for the first time, too, and being like "holy shit." and, yeah, that 6 boss room is just fucking ridiculous. i can't remember if i ever got past it at all, i'm sure if i did i was quickly dispatched by the next few rooms. if the time limit didn't exist, i'd just be patient, but it absolutely does.

Yeah, everything must be done even faster so as to not run out of time.
It's a world of difference from even Level-2.

also, i love the whole premise for the first kunio game - you're rescuing your sensitive pal from getting bullied. brings a little tear to your eye. i love the whole delinquent with a heart of gold trope in japanese stuff, it's genuinely heartwarming.

it's total bullshit to me that the us localization of the game went and pulled some stupid damsel-in-distress bullshit. yawn. if i wasn't tired of that because it's sexist, i'm tired of it because it's extremely boring. a guy looking out for his buddy is a perfectly fine premise for a game!!

Yeah, the original premise is pretty cool.
The whole damsel in distress, is just do damn common, that it is no longer fun. It's like the standard fallback plot premise for, well, everything.

Also, you have to respect a high schooler, who single handedly beats the snot out of rival high-schoolers, a bosozoku gang, and even the Yakuza, just to rescue a friend.
Kunio is the man.

ah, well. i recently ordered a copy of ane-san, which i can't possibly wait for it to get here seriously, that game seems amazing. maybe not mechanically all that, but the premise really shouts at me.

I've yet to play this one. Might give it a try soon, if not for the visuals/theme alone.

[mamboFoxtrot]

Due to all the activity here, I finally decided to try out the thread's titular game : Ninja Gaiden! (or rather should I say, Ninja Ryukenden as that's the version I am playing) After a bit more than a week of semi-regular play, I can reach stage 4-2 on a single credit, and I have to say it is a neat game! I really don't understand its reputation within the gaming population. Oh well, I guess it's mostly people who never actually played it who spread rumors about its supposedly insane difficulty.

Well, that, and also the game's difficulty spike (esp. 1 egregiously cruel checkpoint - or lack therof) near the end.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^More like an anti-checkpoint, since it deletes your previous 3 checkpoints ^_^

[Shoryukev]

How's everyone doing? Been on a bit of a posting hiatus, we got our internet connection cut at work after an incident so I can't even post on breaks anymore lol. (long story involving one of our elderly salesmen trying despirately to download burger king coupons) Been debating posting on my phone but I absolutely loathe typing longwinded messages such as this one on a touchscreen...yeah I know get with the times lol

Been really enjoying Dracula X on SNES over the last week, I don't understand the bad rep it gets. It may look like Rondo, but it definitely is not a port at all. I agree that it is a bit slow and clunky, but to me it just feels similar to CV1 in that regard.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point but I'm still absolutely in love with Parasol Stars. I'm on the hunt for Rainbow Islands as I know I'll have a blast with that one too. Should I stay with the TG-16/PCE or go with another port (or even arcade emulation)?

What do you guys think of Magician Lord on the Neo Geo? I've been debating on dusting off my AES and playing it but I remember it being more of a quarter muncher than a refined action experience. I've been looking for an excuse to play it more but my collection for it is WEAK. A few fighters, magician lord, namm, and baseball stars

[BIL]

RI's PCE port is excellent (TLDR: enemies are a bit slower, and you have the option of saving mid-credit and continuing later; otherwise it's damn close to the arcade), but it's a bit pricey these days. I really go for these technically not perfect but lovingly-done PCE CD ports (Gradius II, Forgotten Worlds and Cotton being some others), but YMMV. Sumez says the PS2 Taito Memories version has noticeable input lag, so I'd probably not put my faith in that.

[FinalBaton]

Welcome back kev

(long story involving one of our elderly salesmen trying despirately to download burger king coupons)

Wow! I was expecting porn, but certainly not this! lol

What do you guys think of Magician Lord on the Neo Geo?

I'm interested in opinions on this one as well. I've always been attracted to the game's visuals and theme and of course, I love me some action platformers. The character classes seem damn cool too.

[M.Knight]

Well, that, and also the game's difficulty spike (esp. 1 egregiously cruel checkpoint - or lack therof) near the end.

Yeah, I am not looking forward to getting to that anti-checkpoint.
In the meanwhile, I made some progress and can reach 5-2 now! I haven't felt a difficulty spike yet, but I suppose it'll come in due time.

While I am defintely having fun with this game, there is another little thing that bugs me : conveniently-placed bats that can easily push you into a pit if you do a blind jump without letting them spawn first. I don't mind memorizing them too much, but it's kinda frustrating nonetheless the first time.

[Shoryukev]

Ahh yes the bats that seem to always be in just the way of your jump trajectory if you're balls out running. I've always written them off as the same type of thing Castlevania on the NES does.....it seems to be programmed deliberately to make you suffer if you're trying to plow through it. Nudging forward and keeping pressure on enemies while still retaining a tiny bit of aggression reserved is key.

It doesn't bother me, but it certainly makes you think look before you leap! Lol

[Shoryukev]

RI's PCE port is excellent (TLDR: enemies are a bit slower, and you have the option of saving mid-credit and continuing later; otherwise it's damn close to the arcade), but it's a bit pricey these days. I really go for these technically not perfect but lovingly-done PCE CD ports (Gradius II, Forgotten Worlds and Cotton being some others), but YMMV. Sumez says the PS2 Taito Memories version has noticeable input lag, so I'd probably not put my faith in that.

That sucks about the taito memories set, sometimes you get lucky with those and other times not so much. I'd be interested in checking out the PCE CD ports, at some point I need to decide whether I'm sticking to hucards or getting a CD unit.

Wow! I was expecting porn, but certainly not this! lol

Lol yeah he gave away his email credentials to a fake dropbox account and our server got hacked. Pretty hilarious but at the same time I'm pissed for being punished for someone else's ignorance.

I'm interested in opinions on this one as well. I've always been attracted to the game's visuals and theme and of course, I love me some action platformers. The character classes seem damn cool too.

I've always thought the same. I love the look of Neo Geo games, but haven't put any real dedication into them. The engrish in the spoken dialog is hilarious as well. Not quite MegaMan8 bad...but noteworthy still lol

[kitten]

He's aged sublimely well - the end of "Empire of the Clouds" gives me goosebumps.

Incidentally, I recently read an article on metal vocalist technique, where five iconic frontmen (Bruce, Dio, Halford, Ozzy and King Diamond) were rated by a classically-trained voice instructor who'd never heard any. She noted that Bruce innately sings like a trained professional, praising his technique on "The Number of The Beast." I can see how he's stayed fresh over the years, given that (if anything, he was sounding burnt-out in the early 90s... guess he was just affecting that awful rasp).

Other rock/metal icons like Ian Gillan, Axl Rose, oof! Their earlier stuff is immortal, but sooner or later, Mickey Mouse is guesting on vocals! Arrgh!

ah, man, i love how this lady completely trashes on ozzy and has nothing but praise for bruce, really rubs things in. i remember when sharon pulled some total bullshit on iron maiden several years back at ozzfest that had bruce wanting to stop touring in the US, entirely. did she ever apologize? no. god, i fucking hate her guts and her total lack of shame for anything she does.

bruce is the man i most respect in all of metal, honestly. dude is a class act, excellent vocalist, and absolute legend. i may not listen to maiden much, as i used to, but i still love the guy. my brother got to be front row in a maiden concert after i turned him on to them, and got to have his face melted i have terrible social anxiety and panic disorder and could never do a concert, but i'm glad i had a family member stand in.

Almost gives me Kiki Kaikai (SFC) good vibes.

that a good one, eh? never gave it a shot. wasn't much a fan of the arcade game. the sfc game was natsume, i think?

-The recovery time really is too low. It is not rare to get pounded twice or more by the same enemy (especially the boxing guys) while trying to recover from the first hit.
-The sword hibox does not seem vertically centered, but slightly upwards to match with the sprite. That tends to mess up my moves when I want to slice an grounded enemy while in a jump right before I land in order to keep up my momentum.
-The backward jump covers little to no distance. I don't use it that much, but it is frustrating for instance when I want to turn and jump at the same time but instead jump first.

these are all things that bug me a little bit, too, especially the first one (which takes quite a while to get used to). the second game has an even more restrictive hitbox than the first, but the third game has a power-up that mitigates the tiny hitbox and adds both horizontal and vertical range. you might want to dig into the rest of the series to discover if you prioritize another entry as your favorite (don't forget US and JP 3 are very different games).

One thing that is different from the rest of the series here, is that your regular punch has a large range here, so you must remember to throw punches from farther away than you normally would.

yeah, it's really long-ranged. not only are you extending your arm out further with punches (at least with axel), but the hitbox also extends slightly beyond what is visually indicated, from what i could tell during that playthrough. lots of whiffing mid-air until doofuses walk right into your punches, i felt. i might not go back to the first game for a while. the 2nd just blows it out of the water, and makes going back really hard. they do at least both have comparably excellent soundtracks!

Also, you have to respect a high schooler, who single handedly beats the snot out of rival high-schoolers, a bosozoku gang, and even the Yakuza, just to rescue a friend.
Kunio is the man.

kunio is, indeed, the man.

I've yet to play this one. Might give it a try soon, if not for the visuals/theme alone.

i'm excited to play it, but my copy is still a while off. it was one of few games i didn't even try via buring a copy because i knew immediately i wanted it and wanted to treat myself without having it too spoiled.

there's rpg elements and it doesn't seem mechanically solid, but that rockabilly soundtrack and ridiculous premise will probably carry it far.

[FinalBaton]

While I am defintely having fun with this game, there is another little thing that bugs me : conveniently-placed bats that can easily push you into a pit if you do a blind jump without letting them spawn first. I don't mind memorizing them too much, but it's kinda frustrating nonetheless the first time.

You definitely need to know where the bat spawn points are in Memorization Gaiden heck, learning the spawn points of all enemies help a lot

If you expect the bats to come in randomly like in Castlevania then you're going to get fucked royally, haha. You gotta condition your brain to think differently here

I personnally treat every action platformer that way(learning spawn point) so it wasn't such a drastic departure for me. But I can see how it can be for others. Without a doubt.

The emphasis on memorization can be frustrating at first, but it has benefits : this aspect will help make you a better player in the long run. And therein lies the magic of the game

[__SKYe]

yeah, it's really long-ranged. not only are you extending your arm out further with punches (at least with axel), but the hitbox also extends slightly beyond what is visually indicated, from what i could tell during that playthrough. lots of whiffing mid-air until doofuses walk right into your punches, i felt. i might not go back to the first game for a while. the 2nd just blows it out of the water, and makes going back really hard. they do at least both have comparably excellent soundtracks!

SOR1 is a great game in it's own right (at least I think so), but you have to remember not to compare it to it's sequels.
That's not to say the comparison is irrelevant (it most certainly isn't, and SOR2 does indeed trumps it in every aspect, except the soundtrack), but I believe it is easier to enjoy/appreciate, if you approach it like a separate game altogether.
This is because, even though it shares many mechanics/moves/theme/characters with the other games in the series, it plays quite different.

I used to think like you do, before I had the 1CC on it, and was playing SOR2. SOR2 was so much better, that going back to the 1st game didn't really feel necessary. It took a while for me to learn to re-enjoy it, but I've developed a strong bond with it.

On the mechanics side, yes, your punch is very long reaching, but perhaps more importantly, enemies have a very long hit stun frames. So long in fact, that you can punch one with the very tip of your fist, and walk all the way to the enemy, and reach him in time to grab him before his hit stun period ends (at least with Blaze).

Learning to poke+grab an enemy in this game, was a massive breakthough for me, not because it is some ubber technique, but because it was what helped me break free from the defensive playstyle I had before (which was jump kicking everything on site, simply because it was safer).
Being able to counter punch enemies (especially aggressive ones) right on time, with a sinple punch, and proceed to destroy them, feels tremendously good.

There's little details to the game that makes it even more fun to play.
For example, I assume you know that you can land on your feet after an enemy throws you (and avoid damage) by pressing Up+Jump before landing, but you can also drop an unwanted (and undroppable, except when hit) weapon by letting yourself get thrown.
You can even use them to avoid a precarious spot, by deliberately turning your back on them, and letting them throw you out of danger (you do need to master the art of landing on your feet, though). This isn't something you'll use that often (or pretty much not at all), but is still interesting nonetheless, and may save you a life sometime.

Speaking of calculated throws, my current tactic for beating the twins, relies on abusing this to avoid taking serious damaging hits. The strat is a bit more involved, but if you're interested, I can explain it a bit more sometime.

Know the dominatrixes that have the annoying tendency to crouch after a single punch, and making you wait or walk away before getting up again? They don't crouch when you grab+attack them, so you can walk to one, grab her and perform 2 knee attacks (one short of performing a knockdown), quickly press away from them, and towards them (so that you'll let go, and quickly walk to them for the grab), and repeat.
This works on most enemies, but special care must be taken on the aggressive ones (that always walk towards you), the jugglers (because of their projectiles, that will probably hit you) and some bosses (like the 1st and the Freedy Kruger wannabe), as they can hit you the moment you let go, if you take too long to grab them again.

Damn, I really need to make some GIFs showing this, to see if I can spread the SOR1 love.

Anyway, I didn't mean to preach (and if it sounds like it, I apologize ), but I really think that SOR1 deserves a fair chance, even though it's eclipsed by it's sequels (at least by SOR2).

[BIL]

that a good one, eh? never gave it a shot. wasn't much a fan of the arcade game. the sfc game was natsume, i think?

Yes and yes. I consider the first SFC Kiki Kaikai part of a Natsume holy trinity along with TNWA and Wild Guns - it's easily as good in its field as they are in theirs. Playing these three in short succession along with Valken promptly shattered the notion I'd been fed of the SFC lacking MD-quality arcadey action, and compelled me to adopt the system. Unholy trinity, maybe. ;3

It doesn't play much like the relatively spartan AC game at all. I'd genuinely compare its feel more to Gremlins 2, only with no jumping and a whole helluva lot more shooting. Check out the max spread and max red weapons, I think you'll find 'em very familiar-feeling. Also has superb guard and dash mechanics, and a surprisingly high difficulty level. Not a pushover! Great co-op game too, and cute as a button, with handling as smooth as you'd expect from Natsume. I unreservedly recommend this one.

The second game is cool from an "expansion pack" perspective (more stages and bosses for the same ultra-smooth engine), but it's inherently less streamlined. Makes some love/hate changes to co-op (weird master/familiar dynamic), and adds a shop that basically overcomplicates powerups. Most certainly a good game, but the arcadier first is the essential one.

edit: oh also, nananana nananana LULZ-MAAAN

Spoiler

That's all the damage races ironed out, then.

[kitten]

Damn, I really need to make some GIFs showing this, to see if I can spread the SOR1 love.

those would be very illustrative. beu's often have complexity to their higher level mechanics that are hard to spot to novices when viewing competent play. kinda needs some explaining/visual demonstration to really sink in.

Yes and yes. I consider the first SFC Kiki Kaikai part of a Natsume holy trinity along with TNWA and Wild Guns - it's easily as good in its field as they are in theirs. Playing these three in short succession along with Valken promptly shattered the notion I'd been fed of the SFC lacking MD-quality arcadey action, and compelled me to adopt the system. Unholy trinity, maybe. ;3

wow, that's some incredibly high praise. i've got a love for natsume and have enjoyed quite a few top-down shooters, so i've got it on my short list, now. the thing that i think initially put me off was the fact it seems to not have fixed shooting, which is something that drives me completely insane in games like those. there are exceptions that lack fixed shooting i still found enjoyable (i'm struggling to come up with examples off the top of my head, though), but i've always found that tremendously irritating.

i kind of hope the longplay i looked at was by a total amateur and there is a way to do fixed shooting :O

The second game is cool from an "expansion pack" perspective (more stages and bosses for the same ultra-smooth engine), but it's inherently less streamlined. Makes some love/hate changes to co-op (weird master/familiar dynamic), and adds a shop that basically overcomplicates powerups. Most certainly a good game, but the arcadier first is the essential one.

eugh, seems like it gets a bit ganbare goemon-ified. do you hold any of the sfc goemon games in high regard? i got them all at an excellent price and my brief exposure to them was not at all positive, they seem to hit a lot of sfc pitfalls. i found the second fc game to actually be really enjoyable with a pal, though.

[__SKYe]

wow, that's some incredibly high praise. i've got a love for natsume and have enjoyed quite a few top-down shooters, so i've got it on my short list, now. the thing that i think initially put me off was the fact it seems to not have fixed shooting, which is something that drives me completely insane in games like those. there are exceptions that lack fixed shooting i still found enjoyable (i'm struggling to come up with examples off the top of my head, though), but i've always found that tremendously irritating.

i kind of hope the longplay i looked at was by a total amateur and there is a way to do fixed shooting :O

If by fixed shooting, you mean shooting upwards regadless of where you're moving, then no, the Kiki Kaikai games don't have it.
Sayo (or the racoon) does have a short range attack that repels both enemy fire and enemies themselves. In the SFC games, she can also slide and use screen clearing bombs.

One game that comes to mind, that does have fixed shooting, is Ninja Princess (aka Sega Ninja).

those would be very illustrative. beu's often have complexity to their higher level mechanics that are hard to spot to novices when viewing competent play. kinda needs some explaining/visual demonstration to really sink in.

Alright, I'll get to work on those.

[kitten]

If by fixed shooting, you mean shooting upwards regadless of where you're moving, then no, the Kiki Kaikai games don't have it.
Sayo (or the racoon) does have a short range attack that repels both enemy fire and enemies themselves. In the SFC games, she can also slide and use screen clearing bombs.

by "fixed" i mean being able to lock your shooting to one direction, like in shock troopers. as long as you hold down fire in that game, you shoot in the direction you were firing in when you first pressed it. many other top-down shooters have a separate button to press for when you'd like to lock.

i say "fixed" rather than "locked" because it's often referred to as such in these types of games. it appears that the game is entirely free shooting, though. i mean, so is gremlins 2, and i like that game a lot, but i feel like it would be slightly improved by having a sort of fixed option.

[__SKYe]

by "fixed" i mean being able to lock your shooting to one direction, like in shock troopers. as long as you hold down fire in that game, you shoot in the direction you were firing in when you first pressed it. many other top-down shooters have a separate button to press for when you'd like to lock.

i say "fixed" rather than "locked" because it's often referred to as such in these types of games. it appears that the game is entirely free shooting, though. i mean, so is gremlins 2, and i like that game a lot, but i feel like it would be slightly improved by having a sort of fixed option.

Ha, I see. I hadn't thought of that. But Kiki Kaikai doesn't allow that too.

Ninja Princess has a dedicated button to fire upwards (regardless of where you're moving), along with the standard 8 way shot, so I thought you meant something like that.

[kitten]

one of my favorite overhead shooters of all time, jackal for the nes, uses a combination of fixed and free shooting. your machine gun always fires upward, but your grenades/missiles always fire the direction you're facing. that combination allows for some really interesting situations!

[__SKYe]

There's also another one that works like that, I think is was Gain Ground (MD).

The upward shot is really useful for shooting enemies that are chasing you closely, and where having to turn areound to fire would get you killed.
Though the fixed shot you described earlier does seem more useful overall, as you can lock on any direction.
But the upward shot still has the advantage of instant shooting, without having to turn first, so for survival at least, it is quite useful.

[Squire Grooktook]

Question for Chomakaimura vets: do you guys prefer to play on default or professional difficulty? I know speedrunners go for default because reasons, but I'm curious how "survivalists" prefer it.

[Sumez]

I forgot there was a "professional" setting. Now I gotta go back and play it again.
It's my impression there isn't too big a difference in the difficulties of this game though, but I could be wrong.

[BIL]

the thing that i think initially put me off was the fact it seems to not have fixed shooting, which is something that drives me completely insane in games like those. there are exceptions that lack fixed shooting i still found enjoyable (i'm struggling to come up with examples off the top of my head, though), but i've always found that tremendously irritating.

i kind of hope the longplay i looked at was by a total amateur and there is a way to do fixed shooting :O

Exactly what made me hesitate at first, being an inveterate Shock Troopers fan and lover of strafe mechanics in general. You can't strafe, but honestly, if there was ever a game worth learning to live with that for, it's this one. You can quickly block, which lets you rotate in place, then fire, making it very easy to get a precise bead on a target (no struggling to halt on a diagonal, something that always bugs me in other topdown games). And the weapons have really generous hit areas anyway. It wears its various mechanics flawlessly.

eugh, seems like it gets a bit ganbare goemon-ified. do you hold any of the sfc goemon games in high regard? i got them all at an excellent price and my brief exposure to them was not at all positive, they seem to hit a lot of sfc pitfalls. i found the second fc game to actually be really enjoyable with a pal, though.

Same here, got a good buddy deal on a complete set of four - with SFC stuff going nuts (and still going nuts 3; ), I just went with it rather than regret later! Fuckin Demon's Blazon seemed to blow the roof off overnight, just barely dodged that one... ala Blazon, I don't rate them as premium action games, no, but I do consider them very solid at what they go for: lighter-hearted action/adventure with lavish production and a solid, workable oldschool 2D action chassis. The second is my favourite as far as action goes, too - seems to be the prevailing sentiment. Nice and smooth, I particularly like Sasuke with his small sprite, nimble movement and slicey kills.

Having said this, I wouldn't say KK2 is quite as distracted as the SFC Goemons. There's definitely no wandering about towns doing fetch quests, or silly genre shifts, nor any grand cutscenes. There are NPCs to talk to but it's strictly on the level of the first Zelda (enter door, blah blah, leave and get back to killin'), and shopping is handled "on the run" like Forgotten Worlds, Magical Chase or any other quality action game. I like having it around, some of its shooting is still pretty intense.

[Squire Grooktook]

I forgot there was a "professional" setting. Now I gotta go back and play it again.
It's my impression there isn't too big a difference in the difficulties of this game though, but I could be wrong.

Professional feels roughly the same to me (aside from some slightly faster enemies/behavior), but it's a game changer at stage 4, where the autoscrolling segment becomes massively more brutal and usually ends my credit if I don't use gold armor magic to cheese through the much more sadistic steam traps and brain/plant/thing placement.