XRGB-3

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 8:44 am

I'm using the VGA input, not Game In

As mentioned 31khz works fine, while 15khz doesn't.

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:54 am

I thought it might be fixed with firmware update, as it seems there is a later version than the one I had, os I upgraded - first B1, and then the english 2.31e.

Seems everything went fine, but I'm getting a Japanese popup, with 3 buttons at the bottom. The buttons are gibberish - as in Japanese not being displayed in the proper font. What should I press?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat May 31, 2014 11:05 am

the left one.

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 11:28 am

Thanks. It flashed the leds on the XRGB and put it in standby, so I'm assuming everything is in order.

Still no picture on 15khz from the X68000, through the VGA input

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat May 31, 2014 12:25 pm

Still no picture on 15khz from the X68000, through the VGA input

you tried both B0 and B1 and disabled the vsync ?

Do you know what the X68k does actually output in 15khz ? Which exact resolution and refresh rate ?

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:02 pm

I've tried both modes. With vsync I assume you're referring to vsync lock - then yes.
Strider, that I have in the machine now is supposed to be 384 x 224. I dont' know the exact refresh rate. I guess it's a matter of getting an XPC-4 for this instead

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:30 pm

but it's still weird that it doesn't work. 384x224p would be like CPS2 specs and that's running fine on the XRGB-3. I would maybe try a passive sync combiner and then set the input to RGBs instead of RGBHV instead.

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:40 pm

Or CPS-1 in this case. I was thinking the same thing. I assume the VGA input on the XRGB-3 is confirmed to work in 15khz normally?

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:45 pm

slk486 wrote:I assume the VGA input on the XRGB-3 is confirmed to work in 15khz normally?

Yup, use my X-Select to transcode 480i to 15khz all the time.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat May 31, 2014 1:48 pm

in general it works, but it's a bit wonky to which signal type has be selected for which source (RGBs vs. RGBHV).

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:36 pm

Does 31khz work through the scart port? If so, maybe I should just route it there.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:45 pm

Only in component format, no RGB.

slk486 · Post by **slk486** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:42 am

So either get a VGA-RGB adapter and switch between the two inputs or combine the sync and see if that works on the VGA input with both signals. Not the best of options

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:20 pm

So I've been looking into getting one of these even though I already have the Mini. Should I pick this up if I find it for the right price or should I just stick to the Mini? If so what are the Pros and Cons?

The main reason why I would want one is for the quick resolution change between Progressive and Interlaced and the next to little lag. It gets a little annoying after awhile when playing PS1 games using the Mini.

How fast is the change? Is it instantaneous like CRT or is there a 1-2 second blackout?

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:25 pm

It's about 3 or 4 seconds, I think. My Saturn SCART cable bit the dust last night or I'd check right now.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:34 pm

3-4 seconds? Wow, why even bother? If it was instant or even 1-2 seconds it would be worth it.

If anyone else could check I would appreciate it.

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:45 pm

Yeah, that's about right. I just loaded up Espagaluda and switched back and forth between 480i and 240p a bunch. Used the stopwatch on my 4S. Sometimes it's really quick, like a second or two, the longest was about 8 seconds.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:53 pm

Depends on the field you hit when switching. The XRGB-2 is faster. In another thread we had a XRGB-2/DVDO <> XRGB-3/DVDO <> Framemeister comparison.....

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:10 am

austin532 wrote:The main reason why I would want one is for the quick resolution change between Progressive and Interlaced and the next to little lag. It gets a little annoying after awhile when playing PS1 games using the Mini.

If you're playing on a softmodded PS2 you can use GSM to force 240p with original PS1 games. If you have a modchip installed it'll work with backups as well. Some games aren't compatible with certain modes.

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:33 am

Fudoh wrote:Depends on the field you hit when switching. The XRGB-2 is faster. In another thread we had a XRGB-2/DVDO <> XRGB-3/DVDO <> Framemeister comparison.....

Here it is; http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=30
The only really fast setup was with the DVDO's (originally unwanted) unlocked output, adding 3 frames of lag as you underlined.
So it's kind of pointless. I was planning to do more testing but it's pretty obvious that no known scaler does instant-switching both ways without some degree of buffering/lag.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:09 am

There is no way I can deal with 3 frames of additional lag. So it seems XRGB 2 is the fastest but only with a VP30, otherwise it seems to be close to XRGB 3 without VP30. 2 switches to Interlaced fast and Progressive slowly where 3 is about medium for both. Still 2-3 seconds with the 3 is pretty good and is much more tolerable. Whether it's worth 300+ dollars though I don't know. I assume the Mini is the overall better product?

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:09 am

Yes the 3 was the most stable of the lot, even though 2 was overall the fastest it all comes down to your personal preference.

I have both, 2 supports more signal frequencies and delivers a 'softer/rounder' scanlined image, with a more 'analogue' feel to it.
But compared to 3 it's kind of dirty.

3 is cleaner/sharper, and its B0 mode is nice for 480i, a kind of unique sharp/clean picture compared to your average DVDO or Faroudja.

Don't have a Mini... although it seems to be the most competent at delivering a properly upscaled image, it's extremely sharp kind of like an emulator with filtering off, not really what I'm looking for.
Plus it's got no low-lag mode and I cannot live with that.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:12 am

I would say, IF you wan to add another XRGB, either a 2 or 3 along with a VGA to HDMI converter (if you don't have VGA anymore) is fine. I have a 3 in storage, since it's better for a few selected 480i titles. Even it if still takes a little time to switch between 240p and 480i, it still makes a huge difference in comparison to the Mini.

If you didn't mind the Mini's lag so far, you can even feed the XRGB-2/3's output into the Mini for further upscaling. Looks good. And if you don't, you safe yourself the Mini's lag anyway and end up with a tighter response.

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:50 pm

I would say, IF you wan to add another XRGB, either a 2 or 3 along with a VGA to HDMI converter (if you don't have VGA anymore) is fine.

As always remember that doesn't work in a lot of cases, XRGB3 is well known for it's poor compatibility.

I did a bit of a comparison here - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2012 ... ture-test/ It was primarily about PAL stuff but applicable to your situation too.

I run both the mini and the XRGB3 in my setup. My original setup was always the XRGB3 chained through the DVDO Edge, there's a number of reasons why I like this setup:-

Input lag is low, 6ms, better than the mini
Picture scaling/zooming options on the Edge are way more flexible than on the mini and zooming etc doesn't blank the screen.
Changing between 240p and 480i is faster, though you will NEVER get anything as fast as a CRT.
PAL stuff (I'm an Amiga nut, sorry) is scaled a bit better and can be zoomed to get rid of borders.

There's a number of reasons why the mini is better though

Works with more systems (want to play PC Engine on your XRGB3? Best of luck to you)
Better picture quality (XRGB3 is more sensitive to noise, and the Edge has some colour bleed problems)
Easier to handle (The XRGB3 can be a colossal pain in the backside, everyone who owns one has had to factory reset it on more than one occasion)
PAL S-Video support for my C64 (can't do this on the XRGB3 without transcoding, and then after that I couldn't get a stable picture).

I suppose I make more out of this whole input lag thing than I need to, but for me I already had the XRGB3 before the mini came out, I don't know if I'd bother picking one up now if I only had the Mini.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:47 am

I don't remember the switch taking that long, when I played Dino Crisis on PS1 the switch is like a second?

I will check again today, maybe it's just been a while.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:39 am

I agree the Mini is very sharp. I usually do prefer the softer analog CRT look though. Even while tinkering with the H and V Scalers, the Mini's picture is still very sharp.

Call me crazy but sharper is not necessarily better. Many older games use checkerboard and dithering effects to create transparency or shadows when viewed on a CRT and help give objects such as pillars or metal a more rounded or shiny effect. When viewed on the Mini objects often look blocky and flat even with scanlines on.

As I said, the low input lag and quick switching between Progressive and Interlace are the main reasons why I would want a 3 but only if I get it a killer price.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:42 am

brownvim wrote:I don't remember the switch taking that long, when I played Dino Crisis on PS1 the switch is like a second?

I will check again today, maybe it's just been a while.

Using what? The XRGB 3 or the Mini?

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:36 am

The XRGB3 of course.

It depends what display or secondary scaler you are using it with too.

Call me crazy but sharper is not necessarily better. Many older games use checkerboard and dithering effects to create transparency or shadows when viewed on a CRT and help give objects such as pillars or metal a more rounded or shiny effect. When viewed on the Mini objects often look blocky and flat even with scanlines on.

A lot of those effects only work properly when using composite too, but I doubt you want to go back to that

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:40 am

I use the XRGB-3, it is literally a second for the transition, if that.

Here's a video of Dino Crisis which I'm sure switches from 240p to 480i in menus.

http://youtu.be/wCeUkKp-htE

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:42 am

Looks like less than a second. What is your XRGB3 plugged into?

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