shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:21 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
I need a DE-15 male to 3xRCA male (YPbPr) adapter or cable for the DVDO iScan Pro so that I can take the YPbPr signal from the DE-15 port and plug it into an OSSC or RetroTINK 5X Pro's 3xRCA YPbPr input.

Does anyone know if this cable's wiring matches the DVDO iScan Pro's YPbPr pinout?:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2409

Or if anyone has any other recommendations. The safe length I need is 26 inches but the cable I end up with can be slightly shorter or longer and I'm sure it will be fine. However, the linked cable is 10 inches over so if there is a shorter option of course that would be better since my setup already involves other analog cables in the chain, and keeping everything as short as possible would be great! Thank you


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:43 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 297
Location: Canada
the OSSC can accept YPbPr on it's DE-15 though...can't the RetroTINK 5x Pro? If so, just use a VGA cable and set your output as you want it on the DVDO side...

Quote:
The AV3 input is a VGA/HD-15 connector which supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats.

unless you really need the LPF for your sources...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
The RT5X doesn't have a DE-15 input, but you know what I just realized that I wouldn't be sending the RT5X a signal from the DVDO anyway since the RT5X has all those deinterlacing options. So I would only need to send it to the OSSC, so in that case if the OSSC can accept YPbPr through the DE-15 input then I might as well get a standard DE-15 male-to-male cable and use it to transmit the YPbPr from the DVDO to the OSSC. Thanks!

But just to make sure before I buy the cable, you are totally sure that the OSSC can accept YPbPr through its DE-15 input?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:46 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12758
Location: Germany
yes, it absolutely does. But as said, you're missing the LPF option that you get when you're using the "proper" component input instead.

And regarding your cable question: Component through HD15 uses the regular RGB pins, so any breakout cable you can find (including the monoprice ones) will be fine.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
The RT5X doesn't have a DE-15 input


If this is what you need it should be relatively easy to add one with something like this https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:04 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12758
Location: Germany
FYI: For connecting an iScan Pro to an OSSC, you can leave both machines in RGBHV mode just as well. Why bother with component?

And the same is true for pairing an iScan Pro with a 5X. For this you just need a HD15 to Scart sync combiner board (Bob was teasing these recently and they should be available soon). Again this would leave the iScan in RGBHV output mode.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:47 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
Fudoh wrote:
For this you just need a HD15 to Scart sync combiner board (Bob was teasing these recently and they should be available soon). Again this would leave the iScan in RGBHV output mode.


Are you referring to the same one I posted above?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12758
Location: Germany
no, the one Bob has been teasing for the past weeks and which was made with the 5X in mind to allow a 31khz VGA input into the 5X's scart input.

https://youtu.be/JoqzfFM6N3E?t=2777


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
Fudoh wrote:
FYI: For connecting an iScan Pro to an OSSC, you can leave both machines in RGBHV mode just as well. Why bother with component?

And the same is true for pairing an iScan Pro with a 5X. For this you just need a HD15 to Scart sync combiner board (Bob was teasing these recently and they should be available soon). Again this would leave the iScan in RGBHV output mode.

I think the only 480i sources I'd be sending the iScan Pro would be from GameCube and PlayStation 2 which would both be sending component YPbPr via 3xRCA male. Are you saying if that switch on the iScan Pro is toggled to RGB rather than YPbPr that it will actually transcode the [480i] YPbPr signal it gets and output it as [480p] RGBHV?

So if true then it comes down to two options:

-DE-15 male to 3xRCA male, for transmitting 480p YPbPr from the iScan Pro to the OSSC, having benefits of a low-pass filter
-DE-15 male to DE-15 male, for transmitting 480p RGBHV from the iScan Pro to the OSSC, without LPF benefits

Is that correct? Which would be the better option for GameCube and PlayStation 2? And btw this is all for the purpose of capturing 480i games from those consoles as a very high quality deinterlaced image through my computer's capture card (using an AVerMedia Live Gamer BOLT capture device to my iMac and using OBS).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12758
Location: Germany
Quote:
Are you saying if that switch on the iScan Pro is toggled to RGB rather than YPbPr that it will actually transcode the [480i] YPbPr signal it gets and output it as [480p] RGBHV?

yes. I always considered RGBHV to by the primary output format on those early line doublers. After all it was was all CRT projectors expected to receive.

The iScan already uses a pretty heavy LPF on its input, so you most likely don't need the additional LPF.

Both options are valid. For the OSSC you can try both. Component output on the iScan Pro is more interesting if you want to pair it with the 5X, since this way you don't have to bother with the sync combiner.

Quote:
And btw this is all for the purpose of capturing 480i games from those consoles as a very high quality deinterlaced image through my computer's capture card (using an AVerMedia Live Gamer BOLT capture device to my iMac and using OBS).

do you already have a 5X ?

While the iScan has a proper film mode, which the 5X does not, it's video deinterlacing isn't great. It's looks good because it does heavy filtering, but the level of perceived detail during motion is likely considerably higher on the 5X than on the iScan. That's just the 20 years between the iScan's SiI503 and the motion adaptive deinterlacing Mike did on the FPGA.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
I do have an RT5X.

So this is the interlaced content I'll be capturing, looking to find the highest "archival quality" possible:

-Game consoles running in YPbPr 480i, mostly the GameCube and PlayStation 2
-VHS tapes running in CVBS 480i

These are the options I was going to test VHS capture with, and then compare them to see which gives a more accurate archival capture:

-VHS output via HDMI from my Panasonic Blu-ray/VCR combo player
-VHS output via YPbPr from the combo player into the RT5X, trying out the different deinterlacing modes
-VHS output via YPbPr into the DVD iScan Pro, output to the OSSC
-VHS output via CVBS from the combo player into the RT5X, trying out the different deinterlacing modes
-VHS output via CVBS into the DVD iScan Pro, output to the OSSC

I suspect there will be zero difference between outputting CVBS and YPbPr from the combo player since VHS is CVBS native. I am also guessing that using the iScan/OSSC or RT5X will give better results than outputting VHS from the player via HDMI since the latter would be using the player's deinterlacing which I suspect was just made to "get the job done" rather than to deliver amazing deinterlacing performance.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:01 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 503
Fudoh wrote:
no, the one Bob has been teasing for the past weeks and which was made with the 5X in mind to allow a 31khz VGA input into the 5X's scart input.

https://youtu.be/JoqzfFM6N3E?t=2777


The one I linked can do that too and also corrects the orientation of the plug.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:53 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 195
RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
VHS is CVBS native

Nope. VHS, like all "color under" tape formats, is natively Y/C S-video at the media level. You're probably thinking of Laserdisc, which is indeed CVBS at the source.

RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
see which gives a more accurate archival capture

If you're willing to throw money at the problem, a newer S-VHS/ED-Beta/Hi8 deck running S-video into a BrightEyes TBC (model 1, 3, or 75) and SDI capture capture card is probably the best option these days. Audio via a quality interface like a Motu or RME. Then use VirtualDub2 to put all that into a 10-bit 4:2:2 lossless/intermediate codec with PCM audio. Clean up everything in post and call it good.

Would the RetroTINK 5X-Pro be the best 8-bit color ADC out there for reasonable money these days? A better analog front-end than any of the legacy DVDO stuff?


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
Eh unfortunately I'm going to have to stick with the options I listed for VHS capture. So then if VHS is natively Y/C should I be outputting it via the component YPbPr 3xRCA from my combo player? (since I don't think there is an S-video output) And which of the options I listed do you think would be best? Seems like we might not know if using the RT5X or the DVDO iScan Pro would give better results?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:05 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 195
RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
So then if VHS is natively Y/C should I be outputting it via the component YPbPr 3xRCA from my combo player? (since I don't think there is an S-video output)

Go ahead and try the S-video outputs of the combo player as the S-video probably works with VHS. Most of those DVD+VHS combo players had functional Y/C from VHS on anything above the absolute cheapest playback-only versions. Some late, high-end Blu-ray + VHS models did, supposedly, support VHS out over YPbPr.

RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
And which of the options I listed do you think would be best? Seems like we might not know if using the RT5X or the DVDO iScan Pro would give better results?

Looking like the iScan Pro is relatively terrible, even up against the RetroTINK 2X:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fNL-FGbkk

Basically all the shortcomings pointed out in that video regarding the 2X were fixed by the 5X, plus using the 5X's HDMI output would avoid an extra analog<->digital conversion cycle capture-side.

It's the later big boy DVDO boxes like the VP50 Pro / Edge / Duo that people think of for deinterlacing and scaling performance (though the regular VP50 or VP20/VP30 with ABT102 card should have identical interlaced SD handling). On paper the big box DVDOs should still beat the 5X for reasons like a 10-bit YUV color pipeline without extra RGB conversions or being knocked down to 8-bit like the 5X, but it would be interesting to see a head-to-head. Benchmarking the audio ADC performance of these would be interesting too as I don't think anybody has ever done that.

That said, however, for doing archival work you'll want to capture the raw interlaced 480i/576i and do your processing in post for much better results. Less is more here on the front-end. If your tape deck and tapes are in good mechanical condition, you can probably even get away with just a IO Data GV-USB2, which is arguably the best of the cheap SD capture dongles.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
It's weird because I got the DVDO iScan Pro just for interlaced content because MyLifeInGaming would always talk about it, but now you're saying even the RT2X does a better job...

My combo player only outputs VHS via CVBS, YPbPr, or HDMI. It does not have an S-video output.

Are you saying it's actually better to deinterlace the footage on my computer? But any footage I capture will be deinterlaced already (crappily) since for example outputting VHS via HDMI from my player means the player is deinterlacing, or capturing CVBS from my player on a capture device with CVBS input would mean the capture device is deinterlacing... So what do you mean by capturing the raw 480i footage, wouldn't that be impossible unless I captured via bob-deinterlace?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:18 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 195
RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
It's weird because I got the DVDO iScan Pro just for interlaced content because MyLifeInGaming would always talk about it, but now you're saying even the RT2X does a better job...

Link on the raving by the MyLifeInGaming guys? The DVDOs people usually rave about are a decade newer and with the ABT102 chip, rather the iScan Pro, which is pushing 20+ years old at this point. Only thing I'm aware of from that era that people still rave about are the Faroudja stuff.

Per Fudoh on the SiI504 (which is newer than the SiI503/DV103 in the iScan Pro):
"The old Lumagens are SiI504 based, just like the DVDOs. Solid film mode, mediocre video mode, not the greatest filtering."

For pixel art the 2X would win (as outlined in that video), but has issues with the instability of VHS. 20 year old DVDO vs the 5X's motion adaptive deinterlacing would definitely favor the more modern hardware if you're watching things real-time.

RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
My combo player only outputs VHS via CVBS, YPbPr, or HDMI. It does not have an S-video output.

What's the exact model? Will it allow you to set 480i/576i out over component and/or HDMI (HDMI is almost certainly no on 15 khz...)? Does the VHS video look notably better over YbpPr vs CVBS?

RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
Are you saying it's actually better to deinterlace the footage on my computer?

Yes. Since you aren't watching things in real time, you can throw all the time in the world and effectively unlimited compute resources at making the deinterlacing look good.

Some torture test examples on modern offline deinterlacing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9eIMGgPQVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD-UCmigpbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErD75pT8soA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwK0Hu8dRR8

RdCrestdBreegull wrote:
But any footage I capture will be deinterlaced already (crappily) since for example outputting VHS via HDMI from my player means the player is deinterlacing, or capturing CVBS from my player on a capture device with CVBS input would mean the capture device is deinterlacing... So what do you mean by capturing the raw 480i footage, wouldn't that be impossible unless I captured via bob-deinterlace?

That's why I'm saying you should see if you can get the original interlaced format out from component/S-video and seeing of component looks notably better than composite on your unit. You want to do this for an external scaler anyways, regardless of video capture.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
So if I end up using the YPbPr output from my player, which scaler would I feed it into? My capture card is an AVerMedia Live Gamer Bolt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looking for cable/adaptor for DVDO iScan Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12758
Location: Germany
My best guess is that the iScan would look better due to it's more agressive filtering, even though the 5X is technically the better deinterlacer for video material.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: energizerfellow‌, Extrems, naz, SamIAm MkII and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group