shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:33 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:40 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 247
Location: UK
Image

Good news for those who missed out on the older ODE solutions at the time. It has audio streaming support so should be better than game ISOs that run off the SD card solutions (although maybe they run fine now?)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 714
This is what I'vew been waiting for! The SD card solutions available the moment are ok, but far from perfect. Extrems is doing a great job with Swiss and the alternate read patches, but the Gamecube is desperate for a proper ODE solution! Can't wait for release details!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 229
Great news! I have been following meneerbeer's amazing progress for years over at the gc-forever forums:-
https://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3234
and I was hoping they might team up with citrus3000psi :)

The photo makes it look like it might be a plug and play solution...I wonder if that means they found a source/manufacturer for the GameCube's drive connector? I recall that being one of the main obstacles to a plug and play solution that didn't require cannibalizing the old drive's connector.

The only thing I would would still love to see (If its possible) is a solder version that uses citrus3000psi's drive interface quick solder boards:-
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/B5cf4AMK
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/kHW2ONDo
Which allow an ODE to be used alongside the original disk drive (As was possible with the Wiikey Fusion/WASP/WODE using 'passthrough' mode, however they all lack audio streaming support) Then perhaps it could even be made into a 'no cut' version for the DOL-001 models by using a 3D printed 'Serial Port 2' cover with a microSD slot on the side edge (I'm probably just dreaming now though!)


Last edited by Link83 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:28 pm, edited 15 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 1148
Location: Southern California
Whoa, this is great news!
_________________
The Artcade blog


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:31 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 30
Wow, this is huge! This and the PS1 HDMI mod have me stoked for the future! I wonder if we'll see a proper ODE for PS1/PS2 one day soon. The PSIO is cool but tons of issues with games. Rather have a proper ODE that replaces the disc drive.

I'll be watching the project closely. Thanks for the post!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6948
Location: block
If easy-enough to install ('easy' not by technician/engineer standards), and not horribly expensive, then of course they'll have my money.

EDIT: btw the carpet in that room, holy fuck. :shock:
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Last edited by Xyga on Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:53 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 659
PearlJammzz wrote:
I wonder if we'll see a proper ODE for PS1/PS2 one day soon. The PSIO is cool but tons of issues with games. Rather have a proper ODE that replaces the disc drive.


Same. The two Cybdyn devs deserve a lot of credit for being the only ones that have even stepped up to the challenge of making a PS1 ODE, but the way recent firmware "upgrades" have gone makes me wonder if an accurate CD-ROM emulator is within their skill set. I'd bet if we see a proper PS1 ODE it'll come from a Japanese developer, since a lot of the documentation seems to be available only in Japanese, and the person with the most knowledge (Xebra emulator dev) is apparently not easy to reach through the language barrier.

For PS2 games we already have a fantastic solution with OPL (though not 100% perfect as several games require special mode combos). But a proper PS2 ODE would be ideal for accurate support of both PS1 and PS2 games.

I'm sure this GC ODE will be very nice. I already have a Wii-Dual'd Wii so I hardly need one myself, but if I had a GC and official component cables I would be all over it as to be free from relying on GCVideo and the chore of flashing new firmwares when new bugs pop up.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:37 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
Xyga wrote:
If easy-enough to install ('easy' not by technician/engineer standards), and not horribly expensive, then of course they'll have my money.

EDIT: btw the carpet in that room, holy fuck. :shock:


See the bar on the door? It’s not a house. It’s a commercial conference centre. They tend to have carpets like that to hide stains from high traffic.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6948
Location: block
leonk wrote:
See the bar on the door? It’s not a house. It’s a commercial conference centre. They tend to have carpets like that to hide stains from high traffic.

I had realized so, but that one is by far the most hideous I have ever seen. I'm sure some people can't even walk in there. :mrgreen:


sorry for the off-topic
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:40 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Is there anything wrong with using a hdmi modded wii to play gamecube games? Seems like it would be better to kill two birds with one stone, not to mention memory card backups.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 229
Wolf_ wrote:
Is there anything wrong with using a hdmi modded wii to play gamecube games? Seems like it would be better to kill two birds with one stone, not to mention memory card backups.

My understanding is that Nintendont and Devolution dont actually run using the Wii's GameCube mode, since it's sandboxed and doesn't have access to much of the Wii's additional hardware such as the USB ports and SD slot etc. Instead they run in Wii mode and act as a sort of software compatibility layer/interpreter which allows GameCube software to run whilst retaining the Wii's additional features. However as this is done in software, compatibility can vary:-
https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/Nintendon ... ility_List
https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/Devolutio ... ility_List
Admittedly compatibility is pretty good these days, but there are still some minor issues with some games.

If your happy with 99% compatibility using a software interpreter then a Wii will probably be fine for you, but if you want (potentially) full compatibility using original hardware (Which many people still use, if only for the Game Boy player) then this project is ideal.

<EDIT>There was some mention by meneerbeer years ago of potentially making this project compatible with the Wii as well (The Wii's disk drive interface is basically identical to the GameCube's, just using a different connector) If thats the case and there is ever a Wii version of this project, then that would make for an interesting comparison...although personally I always prefer to stick to the original hardware if possible.


Last edited by Link83 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 247
Location: UK
@Link83 Yeah it would be great if you could use the drive still and load from underneath the cube

Price:
Image

Shop link (pre-orders closed right now): https://shop.dansprojects.com/gc-loader.html

Quote:
500 units have been purchased for production. These are due in December.

-FAT32 format a 512GB* or lower memory card * 1TB cards are untested but should work
-Over 400 tittles have been tested - We expect and strive for 100% compatibility
-Works on DOL-001 and DOL-101 models
-Installation is fast and simple (does require basic soldering skills)
-Faster loading times compared to original DVD drive.
-Firmware is updatable and a simple procedure

Quote:
Installation:

A flex cable is supplied with each unit that is easily soldered to the bottom of the Gamecube’s DVD drive port. The flex lays over through hole pins so soldering is simple. You can desolder your existing DVD drive connector and solder this to bottom of the GC-Loader but this requires advanced desoldering skills. The flex installation performs identical to this.

Existing wasp installations can plug directly into the GC Loader. However it is recommened you remove your existing setup and install the new flex for a cleaner installation.

A full length video will be linked here in the future. But the total installation is fast, simple and only requires basic soldering skills.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:40 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6948
Location: block
Good price! affordable unlike certain projects.

For the soldering, well, I'll wait and see the video. I'm used to see that, what some people around such forums consider 'basic soldering skills' is sometimes beyond my bottom-end ability, unfortunately :mrgreen:
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 3110
Location: UK
Damn you Dan, I was just about to sell my unfitted GC ODE for a tidy sum and you go do this :D

Hope we can purchase a few units (or at least one for myself!). Think I'll hang on to a GCDual for a new "Super Cube" for the new games room too.
_________________
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:57 pm 



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 94
Will this always be inherently superior to the loading methods that use the memory card slot or serial port 2? If so, in what ways?

I love the idea of ODEs, but I hate that they prevent the unit from being able to play discs. I love implementations like PSIO that preserve the disc function, but the limitations of its implementation are becoming apparent with its lack of compatibility...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:04 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Link83 wrote:
<EDIT>There was some mention by meneerbeer years ago of potentially making this project compatible with the Wii as well (The Wii's disk drive interface is basically identical to the GameCube's, just using a different connector) If thats the case and there is ever a Wii version of this project, then that would make for an interesting comparison...although personally I always prefer to stick to the original hardware if possible.


If there is a way to get a hacked wii to 100% gc compatibility then ticket freaking sold!

And the wii is basically original hardware when it comes to the gc and it also saves space and I am absolutely at critical mass for my setup which is why when the gba consolizer came out I retired my gc (And now we have both Analogue and MiSTer gba fpga cores nearing completion).

Does a hacked wii have any compatibility issues listed with any wii games? If so and the wii version works with wii roms (I don't see why it could load gc but not wii roms) I'd switch from using an external hard drive to load games to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:57 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: Australia
Wii flow/USBloader GX would need an update to point to the ODE mass storage(unless WODE/WiiKey Id/directory names are copied) or a GC title made to act as a game list but other than that its just a matter of hooking it up.
There is a bit of a difference with a GC vs Wii eject mechanism but there are work arounds.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:25 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1317
If this could be used alongside retaining disc functionality, it would be perfect.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6948
Location: block
You can always have a second console for discs, that's what I thought in regards to the PSIO which I still se as a semi-mistake design.
Same thing here I don't mind the lens being gone as I can have another GC for 10 bucks anytime.
_________________
mycophobia wrote:
have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:35 am 



Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 20
I’m thrilled! Can’t wait to give it a shot, and also install some mods in my OG purple while I’m at it. I wish this functionality was possible through the 2nd serial port but this is the next best thing.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 506
Xyga wrote:
You can always have a second console for discs, that's what I thought in regards to the PSIO which I still se as a semi-mistake design.
Same thing here I don't mind the lens being gone as I can have another GC for 10 bucks anytime.


That's just another GC I'd have to mod with a GCDual!

I'll probably just hold on to my XenoGC and then ditch the optical drive altogether for this type of solution once SD cards capable of holding the entire GameCube library are more common and affordable.
Assuming, that is, that this device ends up having a decent enough frontend menu.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:43 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 714
darcagn wrote:
Assuming, that is, that this device ends up having a decent enough frontend menu.

It'll be Swiss.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:48 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1317
So how much faster is this compared to booting from a Memory Card slot via SD Media Launcher + Action Replay/Swiss disc? Or the Serial Port #2? What are all the advantages compared to using Dan's SD2SP2 or the standard SD Media Launcher + Action Replay/Swiss disc?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:23 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 30
It should be able to max out the optical drive bus. From my understanding there are streaming issues with the memory card slot (I only use mine for extrems gameboy player). We should see full compatibility as well. In effect, you should be able to make the console not even know it isn't loading from a disc drive. That's the benefit of full ODEs instead of things like the PS-IO. Your compatibility should be higher, audio/video shouldn't get desynced, etc.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:36 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1317
So this ODE will have the fastest possible loading times, with 100% compatibility, no audio issues, streamlined (and quicker setup than Memory Slot SD and Serial Port 2 SD), and be able to access Swiss, GameBoy Interface and your list of games with nothing else but the SD Card inserted?

The GameCube will also run quieter and cooler, correct? Especially with the DVD Drive removed, you have a lot more circulation inside.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:00 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1541
PearlJammzz wrote:
Your compatibility should be higher, audio/video shouldn't get desynced, etc.

Audio/video desync could still occur if developers were stupid enough to time their cutscene audio based on drive access times; in those instances, you'll likely have to choose either faster load times or correct audio sync.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 506
GeneraLight wrote:
Especially with the DVD Drive removed, you have a lot more circulation inside.


This is not always a good thing for cooling, as some consoles require all the components to be intact so air flows a specific way. For example, on a Dreamcast if you remove the GD-ROM, air flow no longer goes over the PSU and cuts across where the GD-ROM used to be, resulting in increases in temperature for the power supply.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 229
PixelDharma wrote:
Will this always be inherently superior to the loading methods that use the memory card slot or serial port 2? If so, in what ways?

I love the idea of ODEs, but I hate that they prevent the unit from being able to play discs. I love implementations like PSIO that preserve the disc function, but the limitations of its implementation are becoming apparent with its lack of compatibility...

Since an ODE mimicks the original disk drive compatibility should theoretically be 100%. ODE's will always be considerably better then using the memory card slot/serial port 2 adapters, because (Much like the Dreamcast's serial port SD adapter) once you take SD card overheads into account those connections just dont have the bandwidth required to match the original disk drive speeds, so compatibility suffers :(

I too would love to see more ODE's with an original drive pass-through feature, but I can understand why its not feasible on many consoles.

Typically console drive interfaces are not designed to support two disk drives (The ODE and the original drive) connected to the same port. This means you need to 'intercept' the drive signals and then pass them through for the original drive to still function. This is feasible for consoles which use standard FFC connectors (Like the Saturn and Wii, so its a shame Rhea/Phoebe doesn't have this option) However if the console uses a more 'custom' drive connector (Like the Dreamcast or GameCube) then that makes it much more difficult to offer a pass-through feature.

Luckily for us the GameCube's drive connector is a through-hole part, which means we can tap into all the signals on the bottom of the motherboard. In addition there are filter components we can remove to simulate trace cutting to 'intercept' the signals:-
https://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3636
This makes a pass-through feature on the GameCube technically possible, and considerably easier than say the Dreamcast which uses a surface mount drive connector.

PearlJammzz wrote:
I wonder if we'll see a proper ODE for PS1/PS2 one day soon. The PSIO is cool but tons of issues with games. Rather have a proper ODE that replaces the disc drive.

Whilst I would love to see an ODE for the PS1, PS2, and Mega-CD, I understand why its fairly unlikely we will see one, at least not any kind of 'plug and play' version. To the best of my knowledge all these consoles have the drive electronics built directly into the consoles motherboard - they are not on a seperate drive daughterboard like the other consoles. In other words the laser and spindle motor are connected directly to the consoles motherboard, so unless you could design an ODE that pretends to be a laser/optical pickup unit (Which no ODE has ever done before) then its quite unlikely we will see an ODE for these systems.

Of course these consoles do have a drive interface bus on the motherboard, but since there is no connector with direct access to these signals its going to require a custom FFC soldered to the required pins. Then you have to consider the many different console motherboard revisions, each of which is likely to require a different custom FFC connector to match the revised board layout. Finally, your probably going to have to disable the original drive in the process (Unless there are components that can be removed to connect inbetween, like the GameCube's drive filters) Currently the only console I can see someone potentially doing this for is the PS1, since the PS2 already has pretty good HDD loading with OPL, and the Mega-CD has now been entirely 'simulated' with the MegaSD (and potentially the Mega EverDrive Pro as well next year?) I would still love to see them happen though, but I just can't see anyone putting in the huge amount of work required just to get marginally better compatibility.


Last edited by Link83 on Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 12 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:18 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1541
darcagn wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Especially with the DVD Drive removed, you have a lot more circulation inside.


This is not always a good thing for cooling, as some consoles require all the components to be intact so air flows a specific way. For example, on a Dreamcast if you remove the GD-ROM, air flow no longer goes over the PSU and cuts across where the GD-ROM used to be, resulting in increases in temperature for the power supply.

Where, exactly, does that air come from? I don't have the best understanding how everything fits together, but, as far as I can tell, the only intake is at the rear of the console, which opens to the GD-ROM area, and the only opening to the PSU area is at the front of the console, on the other side of the GD-ROM, the rear portion being blocked off with a plastic wall.

Unless there's a gap at in that plastic wall at the rear of the console, I'm under the impression that the PSU doesn't get much airflow.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New GameCube ODE by citrus3000psi/Meneerbeer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:15 pm 



Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
Link83 wrote:
Wolf_ wrote:
Is there anything wrong with using a hdmi modded wii to play gamecube games? Seems like it would be better to kill two birds with one stone, not to mention memory card backups.

My understanding is that Nintendont and Devolution dont actually run using the Wii's GameCube mode, since it's sandboxed and doesn't have access to much of the Wii's additional hardware such as the USB ports and SD slot etc. Instead they run in Wii mode and act as a sort of software compatibility layer/interpreter which allows GameCube software to run whilst retaining the Wii's additional features. However as this is done in software, compatibility can vary:-
https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/Nintendon ... ility_List
https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/Devolutio ... ility_List
Admittedly compatibility is pretty good these days, but there are still some minor issues with some games.

If your happy with 99% compatibility using a software interpreter then a Wii will probably be fine for you, but if you want (potentially) full compatibility using original hardware (Which many people still use, if only for the Game Boy player) then this project is ideal.

<EDIT>There was some mention by meneerbeer years ago of potentially making this project compatible with the Wii as well (The Wii's disk drive interface is basically identical to the GameCube's, just using a different connector) If thats the case and there is ever a Wii version of this project, then that would make for an interesting comparison...although personally I always prefer to stick to the original hardware if possible.


Yes just to integrate the wii features. The actual gamecube games are still operating on the same chips they are on an actual gamecube. A couple games have a couple issues, hardly worth putting an entirely new system on the shelf for.

Gamecube Player is a good reason to own one though unless you have a GBA Consolizer.

Native component output another good reason to own an actual GCN. Although for the cost I just went the WiiDual route.

Also the Wii menu can be annoying for some compared to gamecube plug & play. Not as annoying for me as owning another system though lol.

All that being said love everything Citrus does and this looks amazing. Great price and unlike seemingly every other boutique VG hardware producer the products actually stay in stock. Almost ALMOST makes me wanna get a gamecube even though i dont really need it lol.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ulihox and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group