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 Post subject: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:56 am 


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I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be more out there about consolizing CPS2 A boards. I'm aware of Undamned's consolization, but he apparently isn't providing the service anymore and I've never seen the technical details of how to replicate it yourself. Unless there's already some great source out there I can't find, I think it's time for us all to discuss this, figure things out, and consolidate our knowledge.

Why consolize CPS2?

Capcom's CPS2 arcade platform has an awesome library, and the PCBs are housed in plastic shells that makes moving them around like console equipment much less daunting and risky than casually moving around your typical bare arcade PCB. It's also convenient that system board (A) and game boards (B) are detachable with relative ease so you can could just consolize one system 'A' board and then be able to swap all your game 'B' boards with it (if they're all a compatible region).


Power Considerations

Overview: So I assume the gist of powering the A board in a console like fashion would be to get some pico PSU installed internally, wire a power jack and switch to that are mounted to the 'A' board shell, connect 12v and 5v from the picoPSU to the next solder point after the appropriate pins on the JAMMA connector.

Specifics: Here's where things are a bit hazier for me. I'm capable of doing all the steps in the overview, but I don't know what parts are in spec.
1.) I don't know what kind of amps CPS2 needs on 12v and 5v, thus don't know what picoPSU would be sufficient.
2.) After finding a sufficient picoPSU, I don't know how many amps would be needed for a 12v external power brick to power the picoPSU.
3.) Most (all?) arcade PSUs have a way to adjust 5v. A picoPSU does not. How picky is the CPS2 hardware? If the picoPSU is a bit off on its 5v output such as 4.9v or 5.1v, will the CPS2 hardware throw a fit or have other issues? If so, is there a reasonable way to mitigate the potential variance across picoPSUs?

If there's no picoPSU with the appropriate specs for CPS2, what are other internal PSU options?


Audio/Video Output

Overview: Requirements for this section will probably vary by personal preference, so I guess I'll cover most options and divide it into Digital and Analog.
- Digital: This is a must for me so I can easily take this over to friend's houses and such, whom the majority do not own CRTs or fancy upscalers. It looks like marqs' CPS2 digital AV interface will be excellent for getting HDMI output out of the CPS2 https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59479 . I'm basically just waiting on a source for pre-assembled boards to be on sale since there's no way I have the skill to hand solder all those components
- Analog: RGBs can be tapped from/close to the JAMMA connector, then this can be fed to other encoders if you want component/s-video/composite. CPS2 already has RCA jacks for stereo audio, so those can just be used for convenience and to help prevent crosstalk between analog video signals and audio.

Specifics:
- Digital: Might as well keep these specifics to marqs' thread linked above since there's far more info there than I could summarize here and it's still ongoing.
- Analog: Even though RGBs is output on the JAMMA connector itself, I'm not sure what components/circuits are required to get it within spec for standard analog video hardware (aka, not arcade monitors). I also don't know what the best modern video circuit/encoder options are for getting component (YUV)/s-video/composite from RGBs in a nice solution that can be installed internally. I'd also be curious as to what everyone's suggestions would be on what connector to use to carry all the analog video signals on one connector to keep things sleek without drilling holes for tons of various analog video ports (though I imagine a switch might be needed to switch between RGBs and YUV). A connector that can reasonably sourced and doesn't have to be harvested off of old consoles and such would be preferred. Bonus points if it's a port that could be made compatible with existing console cables.


Controllers

Overview: I imagine opinions on how to handle this may vary wildly, but I'll start with my vision and we can go from there. Undamned's consolized CPS2 just has USB ports so you can use your existing 360/PS3 fight sticks and controllers. I assume other USB controllers are probably compatible as well. I'm actually not too keen on this myself and would prefer DB15 ports instead. With DB15 ports you can use Neo Geo controllers/sticks, many other supergun sticks people have made around DB15, plus various adapters such as Undamned's own DB15 USB decoder.

Specifics:
1.) Mounting ports: Even though I'd HIGHLY prefer DB15 ports, I'm not entirely sure if the 'A' board internals will allow a good place to mount them. I'd also like to know if there's a nice clean recessed option for mountable DB15 ports instead of the typical metal ones that stick out a fair bit kinda kill any sleekness you might be going for.

2.) 3 and 4 player: The 34 pin connector between the JAMMA connector and the stereo RCA jacks has the connections for games that support 3 or 4 players. Now I'm extremely skeptical of being able to fit 2 more DB15 ports on the 'A' board shell in addition to already needing 2 for player 1 and 2. It'd be nice if there's a way to make it work, but if there's not you can always make an adapter. I'd have to look up the part number and such again if anyone needs to know but basically I just bought the connector and pins, then built an adapter where it breaks out into 2 DB15 ports for player 3 and 4. This works fine for controllers that connect directly to DB15, but if you want to use adapters (which will more than likely need 5v) then that complicates things. The pinouts I see for the 34pin connector only have 12v on it, so you'd either need something in your adapter to convert 12v to 5v, or disconnect 12v on the port itself and connect 5v instead (does anything that connects to that port even use 12v?)

3.) Kick Buttons: Kick buttons for fighting games also have their connections on the 34 pin connector. This could "simply" just have the corresponding pins connected to player 1 and 2's DB15 connectors (more details below)

4.) Kick Buttons, Button 4, and Player 3/4 Buttons Living in Harmony?: Here's where things get more complicated If you care about having all the control capabilities.
a.) Potential conflict between Button 4 and Kick buttons? Some games, such as the D&D games, use a 4th button which is taken from JAMMA pin 25 (player 1) and pin C (player 2). Now this seems to be the typical pinout for DB15 arcade/superguns http://www.etokki.com/image/data/db15_laugh.PNG. The question is, if pin 4 of the DB15 port is connected both to the JAMMA connector and the 34pin connector for a kick button, is that going to cause issues? No game is going to try to use both JAMMA button 4 and a 34pin connector kick within a singular game, so my main concern is whether or not both being connected to the DB15 port would cause undesired results in the controls or potentially even damage the PCB or controller
b.) Switching between kicks and 3/4 Player: Having the kicks permanently connected for Player 1 and 2 will definitely cause issues when playing 3 and 4 player games. The 34pin connector shares some of the same pins for the kicks and Player 3/4. If player 1 or 2 were hitting buttons 4/5/6 on their controller/stick it would be pressing some of the buttons for player 3 and 4. This is obviously not wanted, so some sort of switch would need to be in place to switch between having kicks connected, and no kicks connected for 3/4 player. Basically a 6 pole single throw (6PST) switch, or a 6 pole double throw (6PDT) switch just used as a 6PST switch. These seem kinda large, so I'm not sure if some simple electronic switching circuit would be better. Let me know your ideas.
c.) A + B (sections above, not CPS2 boards): If 'A' above is actually an issue, then 'B' would need to revised to be a 7PST switch. Switch position 1 would have JAMMA button 4 disconnected and kicks connected. Switch position 2 would have JAMMA button 4 connected and kicks disconnected so no issues are caused with 3/4 player games.


Other Considerations

CPS 'A' board fan: The stock fan is like a jet engine, especially out in the open when it's not tucked away in a cab. Is the fan really required for running it out on an open table or an open entertainment center, or is it only necessary for arcade cabs in arcades without air conditioning :P ? If it really does need the fan in any situation, what's a good silent or near silent replacement?

Keeping JAMMA connector?: Just for the sake of preservation, I'd prefer to keep the JAMMA connector intact so the 'A' board could still be put in a cab. However, I'd like some solution for a fitted plastic cover to go over it to protect it and keep little kids and such from potentially touching it while it's powered on. Something similar to those plastic covers on the edge connector of graphics card brand new out of the box would work, or something fancier that custom fits around it to cover up all the blank recessed space around it would be even better. Got any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:00 am 


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Just a comment on a single thing- on mine, I would hook up a pot to the fan power line, usually there be a tiny distance of the turn that would just slow the fan way down, and I thought it was fine (it never overheated). I can't remember the size of pot- i'd just try a few from the bix and use the one that had the slow spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:50 pm 


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I did a little testing last night and a CPS2 game running connected to my HAS supergun only used about 38W.
It looks like this picoPSU and power brick combo should work: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003LJ8XTM
Maybe it could be found for a little cheaper though.

Anyone have any good ideas for modern analog video for it? There's those JROK encoders but as far as I can tell it's been ages since they've been revised, and since there's been a lot of development in recent years on retro hardware video signals I can't help but wonder if the JROK is 'correct'. It's also kind of large-ish for a PCB, and space is fairly cramped inside a CPS2 'A' board. Additionally, it seems to only pass RGB through, so it'd still be the too bright RGB direct from the 'A' board and would still need a solution to get that within spec.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 am 



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Would be interested to know what is a good solution to attune the RGB video directly off the JAMMA socket for CRT use!


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:10 pm 


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If there is enough interest I could make more digitally-tapped VGA boards, for lagless 240p/480p output in either RGB or component.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:56 pm 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
If there is enough interest I could make more digitally-tapped VGA boards, for lagless 240p/480p output in either RGB or component.


That could be awesome. How hard would it be to make it do 'all' the 240p analog video signals (composite/s-video/RGB/component)? Personally I'd probably only be using RGB and/or component, but it's always nice to have options.

Also, since you mentioned digitally tapping, would that still play nice with marqs' HDMI board for CPS2?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:29 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
If there is enough interest I could make more digitally-tapped VGA boards, for lagless 240p/480p output in either RGB or component.


That could be awesome. How hard would it be to make it do 'all' the 240p analog video signals (composite/s-video/RGB/component)? Personally I'd probably only be using RGB and/or component, but it's always nice to have options.

Also, since you mentioned digitally tapping, would that still play nice with marqs' HDMI board for CPS2?


Yes, it would work alongside the HDMI board just fine. It is tapping the same signals.

I'm not interested in adding composite and s-video support ever, especially not in our good year 2018, but if you'd like that I'm sure you can find an off the shelf encoder board (like JROK's). My board offers any combination of 240p/480p and RGB / component.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:12 pm 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
Yes, it would work alongside the HDMI board just fine. It is tapping the same signals.

I'm not interested in adding composite and s-video support ever, especially not in our good year 2018, but if you'd like that I'm sure you can find an off the shelf encoder board (like JROK's). My board offers any combination of 240p/480p and RGB / component.


That would work fine for me. How do I get my hands on one? :P (I can't hand solder FPGAs and such).


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:18 pm 



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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Keeping JAMMA connector?: Just for the sake of preservation, I'd prefer to keep the JAMMA connector intact so the 'A' board could still be put in a cab. However, I'd like some solution for a fitted plastic cover to go over it to protect it and keep little kids and such from potentially touching it while it's powered on. Something similar to those plastic covers on the edge connector of graphics card brand new out of the box would work, or something fancier that custom fits around it to cover up all the blank recessed space around it would be even better. Got any ideas?


I'd go with a Jamma Cap from lions3.com

Colours to match your B board too!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:53 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Yes, it would work alongside the HDMI board just fine. It is tapping the same signals.

I'm not interested in adding composite and s-video support ever, especially not in our good year 2018, but if you'd like that I'm sure you can find an off the shelf encoder board (like JROK's). My board offers any combination of 240p/480p and RGB / component.


That would work fine for me. How do I get my hands on one? :P (I can't hand solder FPGAs and such).


I'll dig around my drawer tonight and see if I have any spare CPS2 VGA boards lying around. A few people bailed on the order I made a while ago. If I have any more I'll let you know. They are the same board I use for the Neo-Geo VGA board so if I make more of one I automatically make more of the other.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:20 am 



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I would be interested as well. I recently purchased a CPS2 setup to start my own consolization and darksoft multi combo. I want to run RGBs to my Extron Crosspoint then to my PVM-20L5 so BNC connectors would be best, but I can sort out he wire side of things. I am glad OP posted this thread as I have been wondering if rgb off the jamma would work, proper size picopsu, wiring controls, and making pretty db-15 connector ports


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:58 am 



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I’m starting down this adventure as well. My goals are slightly different than the OP but there’s plenty of overlap.

Video:
I would currently only be using mine with an OSSC via SCART as that could easily fit within my setup. I scoped my boards RGBS output and ended on 330u resisters for RGB and a 470u resistor for sync (but I’m still learning how to work my scope :) ). Since I’m using the OSSC upscaler I think this is all that’s needed here as the signals are now all less than .7v p2p after termination. Sync is stable and the brightness looks good to my eye.

Audio:
Easy peesy, I believe the Qsound RCA jacks are line level but still need to confirm then those can be easily tapped for output to the A/V connector of choice.

Controls:
I have decided to use undammed’s USB decoders so its consistent with my CMVS and the universal dual board (Mc Cthulhu + Brooks universal) sticks I built. Lots of complications if considering 3/4p and 6 button fighters as mentioned by the OP. Figure I’ll start with a setup for the 6 button fighters and consider the 3/4p later since that has a more limited use.

Power:
I was curious about power as well and found a few posts online about it. Here’s one where it was stated, “The board needs to have 5.0-5.10v(5.10 at most)...under load”
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52028

I also found this thread showing the power draw, its detailed in the last post on this thread:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... wer-supply

* The CPS-II will draw appx. 3.5 A from +5 V.
* The CPS-II will draw appx. 0.4 A from +12 V.


I’m confident that a PicoPSU would work but I still need to do a little more research before moving forward on the purchase.

Fan:
Purchased a replacement one from Jamma nation x store so I’ll give that a try shortly.

State so far:
I picked up working A and B board and have tested them with a standard ATX power supply and a mocked up video circuit with a hacked up controller and now proof of concept is complete. My ATX 5v supply’s rail was hovering around 5.07v durning testing and all seemed well.

Other notes:
I’d like to pair this with a Darksoft kit and I’m in the US... Anyone have an idea when Paradise shop will have more supply?

I don’t like cutting up original shells but if necessary I’d rather cut up shells from dead boards. Anyone know if there’s a cheap place to source A and B shells??


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:34 am 


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Lol, how did I miss this thread :D

Old UD-CPS2 units: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015 ... iving-room

New Kits:

- Retains JAMMA edge (so you can swap between cab/TV)
- Still planning to use PSX AV port (can't beat the density/mountability). You could also stream/capture from AV ports while running in cab
- Still USB controls. Takes care of D&D/3-4 player games using a mode switch
- Marqs HDMI board or Mike's VGA board can be used (will not interfere with PSX AV port)
- Power is same (internal regulator and external laptop power brick)

I'm revising all previous PCB designs to make installation as simple as possible. Will definitely be including templates to keep hole/cut placement sane (seriously, the mechanical work can be as rigorous the electrical). Will also make a nice instruction manual and video guide for every step. I want the conversion to be an enjoyable project for people, not a hair pulling one.
-ud
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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:40 pm 


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undamned wrote:
- Still USB controls. Takes care of D&D/3-4 player games using a mode switch

I like that it takes care swapping between 2p 6 button and 4p 4 button. I know the USB port mounting would probably be much sleeker than DB15 ports (and I imagine many people probably prefer USB for the convenience), but I'm kinda heavily invested in DB-15. One really big thing for me is I have DB-15 to Saturn controller adapters that I got with my HAS Supergun. I loooove that for 6 button fighting games. I've also been tinkering with online streaming multiplayer with real hardware, which currently requires DB-15 for the controller input signals.

This also seems silly to ask and I don't know if it'd introduce input delay, but is there DB-15 adapter for your USB controller ports? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:21 pm 


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cr4zymanz0r wrote:
I like that it takes care swapping between 2p 6 button and 4p 4 button. I know the USB port mounting would probably be much sleeker than DB15 ports (and I imagine many people probably prefer USB for the convenience), but I'm kinda heavily invested in DB-15. One really big thing for me is I have DB-15 to Saturn controller adapters that I got with my HAS Supergun. I loooove that for 6 button fighting games. I've also been tinkering with online streaming multiplayer with real hardware, which currently requires DB-15 for the controller input signals.

This also seems silly to ask and I don't know if it'd introduce input delay, but is there DB-15 adapter for your USB controller ports? :P
Why not have both? Undamned's USB boards interface with the PCB just like real hardware buttons so you could wire up both DB-15 and USB ports to the CPS2 so you could monitor the USB inputs through the DB-15 ports, and you would retain the ability to plug in DB-15 controllers if you want.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:10 pm 



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Didn't Capcom release a Neo Geo style home console for it's arcade boards?

I think it was called the CPS Changer


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss consolizing Capcom CPS2 A boards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:27 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
Didn't Capcom release a Neo Geo style home console for it's arcade boards?

I think it was called the CPS Changer

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/0 ... me_console
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