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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:19 am 



Joined: 07 Jan 2021
Posts: 2
Bad Company wrote:
vincediesil wrote:
Long time lurker here, and I've trash picked an Admiral TV with a Sharp CRT.

I'm hoping that it can be RGB modded, I've found the chip is a X2933CE. I've found the schematics for it here :

http://www.datasheetbank.com/X2933CE-Datasheet-PDF-Sharp

If I understand this correctly, I want pins 15, 16, 17 for R G B, AND pin 14 for the blanking.

After that I'm kinda lost. Each line should have a resistor to ground, and pin 13 appears to be that.

I Appreciate any help you can provide.

Thanks!
Vince



Yes Pins 14-17 are correct.

Try this for your inputs:

Notes:
-The colored circles are your new RGB inputs.
-The 75Ω resistors are in series with the original resistors, which no longer go directly to ground.

Image

The external video jack (yellow RCA) is your sync. (it's connected to pin 37)


Thanks for the help. I will be attempting this soon. Will post results afterwards.

Vince


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:31 pm 



Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Posts: 6
DfknG wrote:
Bad Company wrote:
DfknG wrote:
When enabling the blanking line I get a black picture, composite is coming through fine.


Are you seeing composite video at the same time as you are sending the blanking signal? You should not.

DfknG wrote:
I am using the 5v supply off the fast blanking line from pin 16 on the scart head.


Don't use the scart to provide power, use the board's 5v rail to get power. Some devices don't output 5v on the scart blanking pin, so it is better to have a switch on the TV, that you can always activate, when needed.

I tapped the 5v rail at the source, the regulator! Look at the id for yours below, and find the location on the board, then just tap the output pin(5), or anywhere the output pin's trace goes.

*CLICK TO IMAGE TO SEE IT BIGGER*
Image

Your blanking pin is, pin 26 (RGB IN) on your jungle chip. The 4th pin on the header you are using, is NOT connected to pin 26. Pin 4 is the blanking signal OUTPUT, from the micom chip, not the blanking input of the jungle chip. These are separate in the block diagram. (IDK why)

This mod hacks the jungle chip only, and does not modify the function of the micom chip.

This is the same for you MOUMOUH.

MOUMOUH wrote:
...rising the legs on the RGB-in line on the jungle chip is best or somewhere else....



Tap-in where DfknG has done so on the board, but DON'T connect your blanking signal there, just the RGB. Use pin 26 on your jungle chip just like the instructions above. Don't forget to use the composite input for your sync signal.


Thanks for all the advice.
I changed over and am blanking on pin 26 but for some reason its doing exactly the same thing.
I didnt trust my scart head so ive swapped it over and still the same.

I have a G21 also and wanted to see if my methods were bad, it works great!

I have a suspicion the HA21 is after a very specific blanking voltage, I have a buck converter coming so I can play with 1.5-5v and see if that works. If not I dont know what im doing wrong on this set.


Further to this I thought it was something to do with the blanking voltage so, tonight I hooked up a potentiometer and started dialling up from zero.
As I approach 0.7v the image fads out and never seems to switch to RGB.
Any ideas?

Video of behavior attached.
https://youtu.be/R43MKcy06rQ

Ive successfully done a G21 and an AR29 this weekend so have at least had a little grasp of what to do. This HA is being tricky on me though.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:44 am 


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Quote:
Further to this I thought it was something to do with the blanking voltage so, tonight I hooked up a potentiometer and started dialling up from zero.
As I approach 0.7v the image fads out and never seems to switch to RGB.
Any ideas?


I suspect you have digital RGB inputs, as I had the same issue with a few tvs, before the mod worked. This means you can't use this tv for this mod.

If I'm wrong, then the only other explanation would be, that the RGB inputs must be enabled, through software signals from the micom.

One way to test your mod, is to activate blanking, -which is def working for you- and then bring-up the osd menu, and see if it shows through the menu.

Also, with the blanking active, try tossing 3v dc from a button cell battery, or other battery, and apply the voltage to one of the RGB inputs, to see if the screen goes solid in that color. I'm not sure of the polarity, but it won't damage anything if it's backwards. Just put one pole on R,G, or B, and one pole to ground.


If the first test doesn't work, then you have digital inputs.

If the second test doesn't work, then your RGB lines are disconnected inside the chip, or are activated by a code from the micom.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:34 pm 



Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 13
Im trying to add svideo to a Sony KV-20FS120 set. The jungle has a Y/C input that i can wire up but there doesn't seem to be a way to enable it in the service menu. I tried switching the model codes to another model id that has svideo but it seems to have no effect. Anyone have experience with this?

https://imgur.com/a/fNid3Ys


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:45 pm 


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retrozar wrote:
Im trying to add svideo to a Sony KV-20FS120 set. The jungle has a Y/C input that i can wire up but there doesn't seem to be a way to enable it in the service menu. I tried switching the model codes to another model id that has svideo but it seems to have no effect. Anyone have experience with this?

https://imgur.com/a/fNid3Ys


The S-Video input should appear on the Video input channel.

If nothing appears, then the jungle chip's programming needs to be updated to enable that input. This requires sending hexadecimal code to the jungle chip.

I don't know how to do that, but Arduino fans would likely know.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:21 pm 



Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 13
Bad Company wrote:
retrozar wrote:
Im trying to add svideo to a Sony KV-20FS120 set. The jungle has a Y/C input that i can wire up but there doesn't seem to be a way to enable it in the service menu. I tried switching the model codes to another model id that has svideo but it seems to have no effect. Anyone have experience with this?

https://imgur.com/a/fNid3Ys


The S-Video input should appear on the Video input channel.

If nothing appears, then the jungle chip's programming needs to be updated to enable that input. This requires sending hexadecimal code to the jungle chip.

I don't know how to do that, but Arduino fans would likely know.


Yes, i suspected as much. Although, isnt the OSD independent software? Im wondering if another svideo capable models OSD could be flashed onto this set somehow. I think its probably something that is beyond the scope of the type of hack that most of us are doing here though.

It would be interesting to see if such a thing could be done, as i know many manufacturers have TV models with unused/unpopulated RGB inputs. Bering able to program the jungle chip to simply switch to an RGB input would make for a much cleaner mod overall, assuming your lucky enough to come across a set with an unused RGB input.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:43 am 


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retrozar wrote:
Bad Company wrote:
retrozar wrote:
Im trying to add svideo to a Sony KV-20FS120 set. The jungle has a Y/C input that i can wire up but there doesn't seem to be a way to enable it in the service menu. I tried switching the model codes to another model id that has svideo but it seems to have no effect. Anyone have experience with this?

https://imgur.com/a/fNid3Ys


The S-Video input should appear on the Video input channel.

If nothing appears, then the jungle chip's programming needs to be updated to enable that input. This requires sending hexadecimal code to the jungle chip.

I don't know how to do that, but Arduino fans would likely know.


Yes, i suspected as much. Although, isnt the OSD independent software? Im wondering if another svideo capable models OSD could be flashed onto this set somehow. I think its probably something that is beyond the scope of the type of hack that most of us are doing here though.

It would be interesting to see if such a thing could be done, as i know many manufacturers have TV models with unused/unpopulated RGB inputs. Bering able to program the jungle chip to simply switch to an RGB input would make for a much cleaner mod overall, assuming your lucky enough to come across a set with an unused RGB input.



There is a difference between the OSD and the jungle chip's BIOS. The OSD is a GUI for the Jungle chip's BIOS. The micom displays the jungle chip's possible settings, and when you input a change, the micom sends some hex numbers over to the jungle, and the jungle executes that change. You could control the jungle with just hex code, but you wouldn't have a way to visually keep track of the changes.

I hope that makes sense. If you want to know more, google: I2C , it's the protocol that the jungle chip uses.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:20 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
Hello there!

I've recently developed an interest in CRTs and got my hands on a Sony KV-1926R.
I don't know much about working with CRTs, but I've heard about RGB modding and I really want to try it out for my unit because it only has a single coaxial input.

I'm trying to figure out where to start with such a project as RGB modding this tv.
What parts I would need, and how it can be done.

When inquiring about this users from r/crtgaming pointed me over to this thread for help.
My original post about this subject can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... t_only_be/

I appreciate any help I can get!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:38 pm 



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Posts: 2
Hi, I'm trying to make composite mod to my 5'' tv. The have a jungle chip KA2915, so I connected a wire near the trace of pin 5 and another wire near pin 11 on the AC coupling capacitor for audio. I removed the tuner and other thing near the tuner but the mod worked perfectly as you can see here:

https://imgur.com/a/rvV82Gi

Later I had the stupid idea to put a led on the circuitery to light the front panel of the tv so now this is the situation:

https://imgur.com/a/N71khRF

There is a sort of "degrade" of signal that appears after a bit and some lines on background. I spent last 2 days to recap the TV and I changed 22/24 capacitors
because the last 2 ones i didn't have at home. I searched infos on the web but as the schematics of the board doesn't exists i started drawing by using multimeter and kicad, and this is the part of chip near video out. The drawing it's not complete yet and some compoents are missing because i don't know if necessary for this mod.

https://imgur.com/Kv7FgEY

If someone could help me to resolve this issue I will be very happy! Thanks a lot!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:51 pm 


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EDIT: You can gently rock the MB board front to back and pull it out, AFTER you pull back those middle tabs on the connectors.

Now my problem is, I can't get the connector with grey and white wires on the right side to release.

Spoiler: show
Image


here's another picture of a similar board in a different model from another user, seems he could get the cable to release either:

Spoiler: show
Image


Last edited by BazookaBen on Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:50 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 764
Dawid DevCodoc wrote:
Hello there!

I've recently developed an interest in CRTs and got my hands on a Sony KV-1926R.
I don't know much about working with CRTs, but I've heard about RGB modding and I really want to try it out for my unit because it only has a single coaxial input.

I'm trying to figure out where to start with such a project as RGB modding this tv.
What parts I would need, and how it can be done.

When inquiring about this users from r/crtgaming pointed me over to this thread for help.
My original post about this subject can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... t_only_be/

I appreciate any help I can get!


This set looks too old to mod by the jungle RGB input injection methods we generally use in this thread. The "jungle" ic301 only has RGB outputs.

Seems to me only a neck mod would work for this set. That's not something I've ever done but I know others on this thread have.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:24 pm 


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MarkOZLAD wrote:
This set looks too old to mod by the jungle RGB input injection methods we generally use in this thread. The "jungle" ic301 only has RGB outputs.

Seems to me only a neck mod would work for this set. That's not something I've ever done but I know others on this thread have.


Looks like it might be an interesting challenge. I was curious because it's obviously got an OSD. It looks like they just grab the green off of the OSD chip and mix it with the green gun input, but the OSD RGB output is at zero volts DC, and then DC restoration is performed at the input transistor. I guess you'd probably have to AC couple it and strip the DC component out of the color and then build a similar circuit for the rest of the colors.

Wouldn't be easy though.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:20 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
vol.2 wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
This set looks too old to mod by the jungle RGB input injection methods we generally use in this thread. The "jungle" ic301 only has RGB outputs.

Seems to me only a neck mod would work for this set. That's not something I've ever done but I know others on this thread have.


Looks like it might be an interesting challenge. I was curious because it's obviously got an OSD. It looks like they just grab the green off of the OSD chip and mix it with the green gun input, but the OSD RGB output is at zero volts DC, and then DC restoration is performed at the input transistor. I guess you'd probably have to AC couple it and strip the DC component out of the color and then build a similar circuit for the rest of the colors.

Wouldn't be easy though.

Image


I am very inexperienced when it comes to working with analog electronics and schematics.
I don't know much about working in CRTs but would really love to get RGB working on this specific unit.

At the mention of a neckboard mod, I decided to start looking around at the neckboard and I noticed there is are unpopulated solder points labeled C3 with 9V, R, G, B, SB, and E. It is labeled the same as C6 which has a cable that connects to the main board. Tracing the leads shows they have some connections.
Surely its not as simple as just plugging in wires to those connections, but maybe its a starting point?
I don't know if that is anything useful or if it is even important at all. I'm trying my best to understand this stuff.

I would appreciate it if someone could break down the processes behind carrying out a neckboard mod.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:24 am 


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Dawid DevCodoc wrote:
Surely its not as simple as just plugging in wires to those connections, but maybe its a starting point?


I would advise against that. The color signals would need to be conditioned to look like what is present at base of the video amp transistors on the neck board; you can't just plug into that.


Quote:
I would appreciate it if someone could break down the processes behind carrying out a neckboard mod.


I've never done it, only the OSD input mod. MarkOZLAD mentioned that maybe some others in the thread have done it, maybe one of them can chime in.

Also, I wouldn't try this without an oscilloscope and your set plugged into an isolation transformer. Because you'll need a scope to peek the signals into the video amps, and you can't hook up scope probes to the set without blowing things up unless the TV is plugged into an isolation transformer.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:54 pm 


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I've come across a KV-27TS27 (service manual)
It's an older set from 1991 with an LN-1 Chasis

No luck finding an original datasheet for the TDA 3569B Jungle IC
NTE7048 NTSC Decoder w/Fast RGB Blanking is listed as its equivalent (Datasheet)

There's no RGB input listed for this IC. Instead a Y and C in.

An RGB OSD out is listed from IC101


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:09 pm 


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Kingbuzzo wrote:
I've come across a KV-27TS27 (service manual)
It's an older set from 1991 with an LN-1 Chasis

No luck finding an original datasheet for the TDA 3569B Jungle IC
NTE7048 NTSC Decoder w/Fast RGB Blanking is listed as its equivalent (Datasheet)

There's no RGB input listed for this IC. Instead a Y and C in.

An RGB OSD out is listed from IC101


What happens inside that set is the following:

-NTSC and Composite video inputs are sent to a chip that converts them into YC. The NTSC I can't follow, it's too much work and pointless. The Video signal is easy to follow on the block diagram. It goes directly to comb filer CM351 which separates it into YC.

-YC is sent to a chip on the B board (IC103-TDA3569B) that converts the YC into RGB and sends that to the RGB output transistors on the neck board

-On models with S-video input (ending in TS31) the YC bypasses the comb filter and goes directly to IC103 through a buffer

-OSD is generated directly on the main IC that also handles the screen position, etc and is sent as a fully-baked RGB signal to the neck board and directly mixed into the RGB output signal from IC103 (with no buffers or diodes apparently)

There's no way that I can see to do an OSD mod on that thing.

You could probably hack in the S-video input that the ******31 model has, because it's got all the parts and stuff called out in the schematic and should be easy. Also, I guess a neck board mod but I can't help you there.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:13 pm 


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Cheers. At least we can rule out this chassis for osd mods.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:37 pm 


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retrozar wrote:
Im trying to add svideo to a Sony KV-20FS120 set. The jungle has a Y/C input that i can wire up but there doesn't seem to be a way to enable it in the service menu. I tried switching the model codes to another model id that has svideo but it seems to have no effect. Anyone have experience with this?

https://imgur.com/a/fNid3Ys


ID-1, at least in the generation of Trinitrons I'm familiar with, is the setting that enables different inputs.

I recently did this with a KV-13FM12. I copied the s-video circuit from a 20KV12 precisely (I think).

So if yours isn't working, my guess would be that you left out a component, or left in a jumper or other component that needed to be removed. So you need to go down to the end of the parts list of the TV you're copying, and see if there are any circuits on the Y/C signal path that are supposed to open or closed. Also check continuity between each component in signal path.

Like my mod didn't work until I removed tiny jumper on the signal path going to the tuning control chip.


Last edited by BazookaBen on Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:34 pm 


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EDIT: nevermind figured out my luma issue.


Last edited by BazookaBen on Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:59 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 209
So, is it safe to say most black trinitrons (cylinder screen) with S-Video can be RGB modded?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 am 


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tongshadow wrote:
So, is it safe to say most black trinitrons (cylinder screen) with S-Video can be RGB modded?


Some of them use digital RGB for the OSD and have a separate analog RGB input on the jungle which may be unused and disabled in software.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:05 pm 



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Also thinking about Component modding these black Trinitrons, imo it's a better route than RGB.
Can Component be enabled on a channel through the service menu or will I need the usual blanking method to display a picture?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:02 am 


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tongshadow wrote:
Also thinking about Component modding these black Trinitrons, imo it's a better route than RGB.
Can Component be enabled on a channel through the service menu or will I need the usual blanking method to display a picture?


For the most part, the mods people are doing in this thread have been OSD mods, using the RGB OSD inputs on the jungle IC.

I can't say it's impossible, but I've never seen it done. I think there were enough Sonys out there with component video in that most people probably just seek out one of those rather than going to the trouble of modding one that doesn't have it.

If it was possible, you'd have to find a chassis that has an IC with an unused component video input (presumably because it's a cost reduced version of a more expensive model that has the inputs, but they decided not to use a different jungle IC), and then you would have to figure out how to force it use the hacked in component input, probably in software, in the service menu if you are lucky, and by flashing the rom from the more expensive model if you weren't.

But that's just a wild guess. Maybe someone here has performed such a mod or seen it done. Not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:57 am 


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Iirc the PIP board on the black case trinitrons used YUV so you would just need to enable pip in the svc menu


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:11 am 



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tongshadow wrote:
Also thinking about Component modding these black Trinitrons, imo it's a better route than RGB.
Can Component be enabled on a channel through the service menu or will I need the usual blanking method to display a picture?


Can only mod for whatever is available on the TV chassis. Going to be unlikely that the black cased Trinitrons are going to have YUV inputs. (Not impossible though)

I've done and been involved with a few component mods but they've all been TVs where they are lower spec'd versions of chassis that support YUV. In those cases the YUV can be enabled via service menu and it's a matter of playing join the dots with the missing components on the chassis.

I would suggest in general the black cased Trinitrons will be more likely to be RGB modded, if you want component you will need a transcoder.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:19 am 


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Several of the later model curved Trinitrons can be component modded. It works brilliantly - picture quality is as good as an OSD RGB mod, but it's easier to do and less invasive. I've tried it on a few different TVs with the BA-4D chassis, but I think it would also work with BA-4 Trinitrons and the equivalent 32/35" models.

IMO the results are better than the component inputs found in the later flat models. You can adjust color saturation (which is a good thing), but there are no image-degrading edge enhancement "features" and the image is very crisp.

I've been meaning to do a writeup, but am waiting on some parts to finalize the mod on one of my TVs in a way that I think is the most polished. Might be better to start another thread about it vs hijacking this one, though.

The following is my PS1 running through an RGB2Comp to a component modded KV-27V42:
https://imgur.com/a/ZpoXfLn


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:20 pm 


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Yeah I don't know if we should have separate threads for component and/or s-video/composite mods. There is tons of crossover in the knowledge related to doing this stuff though.

Related to component mods: In the datasheet CXA2135s jungle, which I think is practically identical to my CXA2131AS that I don't have a datasheet for, it says this about the 2nd set of RGB inputs:

Quote:
R2,G2 and B2 signal input. Input a 0.7Vp-p (no sync,100IRE) signal via a 0.01F capacitor. Same as RGB1 IN, the input signal is clamped at the burst timing in SCP. When setting the bus YUVOUT=1 and connecting 10k resistors to Vcc, Internal YUV signals outputs
30 Pin: B-Y output
31 Pin: R-Y output
32 Pin: Y output


Not sure if this means it can also be component, and the using the word output is confusing me. Can an input be switched to an output inside the jungle?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:34 pm 



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matt wrote:
Several of the later model curved Trinitrons can be component modded. It works brilliantly - picture quality is as good as an OSD RGB mod, but it's easier to do and less invasive. I've tried it on a few different TVs with the BA-4D chassis, but I think it would also work with BA-4 Trinitrons and the equivalent 32/35" models.

IMO the results are better than the component inputs found in the later flat models. You can adjust color saturation (which is a good thing), but there are no image-degrading edge enhancement "features" and the image is very crisp.

I've been meaning to do a writeup, but am waiting on some parts to finalize the mod on one of my TVs in a way that I think is the most polished. Might be better to start another thread about it vs hijacking this one, though.

The following is my PS1 running through an RGB2Comp to a component modded KV-27V42:
https://imgur.com/a/ZpoXfLn


Well waddyaknow? A sneaky set of empty component pins on the BA-4 jungle! Excellent. Could have a BA-4 with RGB and component....

I don’t think we really need a seperate thread for component, but that’s just my opinion. As far as I’m concerned any extra, improved quality input you can add to a TV is cool and within the interest of this thread and it’s participants. The problems are usually similar to solve. I’ve personally had a hand in adding composite, s video, component and/or RGB to sets where it added functionality and enjoyed doing each.

A quick write up of how you implemented the BA-4 (and others) component mod would be good.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:16 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 209
Thanks for the feedback everyone, the black Trinitrons are starting to seem much more attractive.

I was looking at a model (kv 34t80) that uses the CXA2060AS series, and there´s apparently even a blanking pin for YUV.

Im going for the SCART->Component route nowadays...


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:47 pm 


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Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 1202
Location: bmore
tongshadow wrote:
Im going for the SCART->Component route nowadays...


I think if the RGB2COMP was around earlier, then I probably would have done such a mod myself. Seems potentially more stable.


I agree that it should be in this thread, and I look forward to seeing your write-up (if you put it here).


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