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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:47 pm 


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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 93
Location: Florida
Speedy wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Speedy wrote:
I just picked up a KV-27XBR51 that looks great.
The set is only S-Video though and I'm hoping to mod it for RGB.
Is RGB modding this CRT possible?
If so, are there any kits or walkthroughs?
Thanks!

Unless I am crazy, that set looks like it already has an input for RGB. Does it have Component in on the back? If not, find CN133 and go straight into 6-8 and composite?

You can't go directly into the additional RGB header on the XBR51 like you can on the XBR55 according to this site and the YouTube video it links to: http://pcbjunkie.net/index.php/projects ... le-modchip

Apparently Sony disabled the additional RGB header on the XBR51 unlike the XBR55 which uses it for PiP (picture-in-picture).

It looks like pins 16, 17, & 18 (red below) can't be used unless I build a custom modchip as described on the PCB Junkie site I linked to above.
With that said, would it be easier to somehow use pins 12, 11, & 10 (green below)?
If so, what other pins would I use and would that result in muxing the OSD & RGB or would I have a switch?

Here's a picture of the IC301 Y/C/J chip:
Image

Also, here's a link to the entire service manual: https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ao2MqUeQXiS5cWZACYWmdB-B3g4


Im sure those rgb inputs are digital.

Not the same jungle ic but the pinouts match.
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/do ... m=CXA1313S


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:59 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
Speedy wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Speedy wrote:
I just picked up a KV-27XBR51 that looks great.
The set is only S-Video though and I'm hoping to mod it for RGB.
Is RGB modding this CRT possible?
If so, are there any kits or walkthroughs?
Thanks!

Unless I am crazy, that set looks like it already has an input for RGB. Does it have Component in on the back? If not, find CN133 and go straight into 6-8 and composite?

You can't go directly into the additional RGB header on the XBR51 like you can on the XBR55 according to this site and the YouTube video it links to: http://pcbjunkie.net/index.php/projects ... le-modchip

Apparently Sony disabled the additional RGB header on the XBR51 unlike the XBR55 which uses it for PiP (picture-in-picture).

It looks like pins 16, 17, & 18 (red below) can't be used unless I build a custom modchip as described on the PCB Junkie site I linked to above.
With that said, would it be easier to somehow use pins 12, 11, & 10 (green below)?
Here's a picture of the IC301 Y/C/J chip:
Image

Also, here's a link to the entire service manual: https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ao2MqUeQXiS5cWZACYWmdB-B3g4



If so, what other pins would I use and would that result in muxing the OSD & RGB or would I have a switch?


Yeah 10-12 are your OSD and you need to follow the OSD MUX guide with the proper resistors sizes for your circuit if you can't use those other pins. That sucks they disabled it. 9 is your blank and is usually ground, 3v or 5v depending on the TV. 5v on my 13" worked.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:03 pm 



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 81
Location: Denmark
flynnsbit wrote:

If so, what other pins would I use and would that result in muxing the OSD & RGB or would I have a switch?

Yeah 10-12 are your OSD and you need to follow the OSD MUX guide with the proper resistors sizes for your circuit if you can't use those other pins. That sucks they disabled it. 9 is your blank and is usually ground, 3v or 5v depending on the TV. 5v on my 13" worked.


But if those are digital, as the previous post suggests, you cannot use those at all. The next step would be to intercept the I2C and ensure the analog ones are not disabled.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:06 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
skum wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:

If so, what other pins would I use and would that result in muxing the OSD & RGB or would I have a switch?

Yeah 10-12 are your OSD and you need to follow the OSD MUX guide with the proper resistors sizes for your circuit if you can't use those other pins. That sucks they disabled it. 9 is your blank and is usually ground, 3v or 5v depending on the TV. 5v on my 13" worked.


But if those are digital, as the previous post suggests, you cannot use those at all. The next step would be to intercept the I2C and ensure the analog ones are not disabled.


Let's be clear. You should ALWAYS try the 16-18 method first and see if it is supported on these TVs. That is a super easy thing to check. 2 of my Trinitrons have them and accept analog RGB just fine.
Here is my specific chip on my TV and I used 16-18 with blanking and it works great. I wouldn't assume you have to go down the mux method first unless someone has verified that it doesn't work for your specific model. If so, then I get the point.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:43 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Posts: 79
Location: Seattle
flynnsbit wrote:
Let's be clear. You should ALWAYS try the 16-18 method first and see if it is supported on these TVs. That is a super easy thing to check. 2 of my Trinitrons have them and accept analog RGB just fine.
Here is my specific chip on my TV and I used 16-18 with blanking and it works great. I wouldn't assume you have to go down the mux method first unless someone has verified that it doesn't work for your specific model. If so, then I get the point.

It has been tested for my specific model and confirmed that 16-18 do not work.
What I'm confused about is whether PCB Junkie is saying that I can't even use 10-12...?
Will the 10-12 method definitely work?
If so, how would I go about accomplishing that?


Last edited by Speedy on Sun May 17, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:45 pm 


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Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 11
Update*
I am now able to blank between stock and mux via the toggle but, the osd menu (color, brightness etc...) Is not going away, any ideas on how I can get it do disappear?

Images here:
http://imgur.com/gallery/HlL4rRo


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 9:52 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
Speedy wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Let's be clear. You should ALWAYS try the 16-18 method first and see if it is supported on these TVs. That is a super easy thing to check. 2 of my Trinitrons have them and accept analog RGB just fine.
Here is my specific chip on my TV and I used 16-18 with blanking and it works great. I wouldn't assume you have to go down the mux method first unless someone has verified that it doesn't work for your specific model. If so, then I get the point.

It has been tested for my specific model and confirmed that 16-18 work.
What I'm confused about is whether PCB Junkie is saying that I can't even use 10-12...?
Will the 10-12 method definitely work?
If so, how would I go about accomplishing that?


Sorry, I am now confused. If 16-18 have been tested for your model and confrmed to work, why wouldn't you use 16-18? It's one of the easiest mods ever if they work.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:22 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Posts: 79
Location: Seattle
flynnsbit wrote:
Speedy wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Let's be clear. You should ALWAYS try the 16-18 method first and see if it is supported on these TVs. That is a super easy thing to check. 2 of my Trinitrons have them and accept analog RGB just fine.
Here is my specific chip on my TV and I used 16-18 with blanking and it works great. I wouldn't assume you have to go down the mux method first unless someone has verified that it doesn't work for your specific model. If so, then I get the point.

It has been tested for my specific model and confirmed that 16-18 work.
What I'm confused about is whether PCB Junkie is saying that I can't even use 10-12...?
Will the 10-12 method definitely work?
If so, how would I go about accomplishing that?


Sorry, I am now confused. If 16-18 have been tested for your model and confrmed to work, why wouldn't you use 16-18? It's one of the easiest mods ever if they work.

Sorry, corrected my typo above... I meant 16-18 "do not" work.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 1:39 am 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
Speedy wrote:
Sorry, corrected my typo above... I meant 16-18 "do not" work.


Ahh, not confused now. :) Well, if 16-18 are disabled and 10-12 are digital, I am not sure you have any options for this TV unless you are going to do the I2C hack.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:19 am 


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Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Posts: 79
Location: Seattle
flynnsbit wrote:
Speedy wrote:
Sorry, corrected my typo above... I meant 16-18 "do not" work.


Ahh, not confused now. :) Well, if 16-18 are disabled and 10-12 are digital, I am not sure you have any options for this TV unless you are going to do the I2C hack.

Thanks for the help! What do you mean by 10-12 being digital?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:08 pm 


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Posts: 4
Is it possible at all to get an NTSC TV to sync with a 50hz signal?
Every TV I tried gives a rolling image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:18 pm 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 1175
Dr. Phil wrote:
Is it possible at all to get an NTSC TV to sync with a 50hz signal?
Every TV I tried gives a rolling image

that's what the vast, overwhelming majority of them do

because MERICA


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:02 am 


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Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 11
Yay!!!
I RGB SCART Mux modded my first TV today!
Thank you to MarkOZLAD and flynnsbit for all your lovely documentation and expertise; big shout out to all you fellow CRT gurus out there! ❤️

This forum is a great place to meet like minded people who are also learning as they go and who are willing to help othera do some awesome stuff as well.

Lesson learned from this Mod, remove the 1k resistor on the blanking and go to pin 49 (aka the blanking source) and it should work perfectly!

http://imgur.com/gallery/ovuv3WG

Tips for those who are looking to mod a BA4d Chassis on a Trinitron KV-27S42
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&p=1342960&hilit=documenting+Sony+mod#p1342960 -> Follow this link

If you are getting a black screen and it only shows if you have the menu button pushed, solder to pin 49 of IC001, take the 1k resistor off and it should work.
Also, make sure you blank when you toggle (Aka if there is a change, good, if there is not, you don't have a solid 5v+ connection)
I ended up using the 5v near the AV port and not the 5v+ pin 8 outlined in the guide, it for some reason worked better for me.
Make sure you have the brightness turned down and adjust your sharpness etc... OSD stuff when you are not in MUX RGB mode. Its a lot easier to view it

If you'll excuse me, I need to go play some arcade pcbs on my consumer CRT.

Next time on CRT modding, I will figure out the stupid service menu combo to fix this convergence mess. (240p suite pics in link)

Display+5+ volume up is not working @_@


Last edited by Tengugurl on Tue May 19, 2020 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:38 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 689
Speedy wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Speedy wrote:
Sorry, corrected my typo above... I meant 16-18 "do not" work.


Ahh, not confused now. :) Well, if 16-18 are disabled and 10-12 are digital, I am not sure you have any options for this TV unless you are going to do the I2C hack.

Thanks for the help! What do you mean by 10-12 being digital?


It means they can only be on or off, resulting in 8 possible colours.

Give 16-18 a try. Don't listen to others.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:01 pm 


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Posts: 1175
even if they don't work straight away, the i2c mod looks easy enough


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:15 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Could someone please direct me to a diagram of how a euroscart female socket should be wired up? Mostly BNC in this thread. I believe my rgb console signals aren't being activated and reading about pins 8, 18, and 16 is a little overwhelming. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:56 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 689
maxtherabbit wrote:
even if they don't work straight away, the i2c mod looks easy enough


I'd be investigating the service menu bits first.
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___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:57 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 689
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
Could someone please direct me to a diagram of how a euroscart female socket should be wired up? Mostly BNC in this thread. I believe my rgb console signals aren't being activated and reading about pins 8, 18, and 16 is a little overwhelming. Thanks!


Look at the mux diagram in my signature.
_________________
___________________________________________________
MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm 



Joined: 20 May 2020
Posts: 4
Hey guys,

First post, and about to mod my first CRT. The set is a Sony Trinitron KV-20FS12. I've seen a video with someone doing an OSD pin lift mod with success, and had a couple questions hopefully someone here can help me with.

While investigating the mod, I noticed an additional set of RGB pins:

Image

I see in recent posts on this thread some folks have an unused (or used for CC, which I care nothing about) RGB input. I see pins 26, 27, 28 sitting there with maybe their own blanking pin on 25. Does anyone know if these are directly usable? I see some posts with these but find out later they are digital, and I've seen some posts that say the caps before these indicate they are likely analog. Was really hoping to use these guys (including their blanking pin, if that's what it is). Any ideas?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:18 pm 



Joined: 20 May 2020
Posts: 8
re-posted below with more detail


Last edited by rage8885 on Fri May 22, 2020 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:40 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Ah, I see pin 16 now. Looking at your BA-4D writtin diagram, what part of the blanking switch is attached to scart pin 16?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:39 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
Ah, I see pin 16 now. Looking at your BA-4D writtin diagram, what part of the blanking switch is attached to scart pin 16?


What do you mean by "Which part"?

Hoping I can help answer. Follow the purple path in his diagram (his was a Sanyo example), though your blanking pin could be anything so you would need to get your own service manual and follow the diagram to your jungle chip. You are adding voltage to that line from some other part on the board, like a 5v dc source from a voltage reg, 5v standby, really anything that gives you the voltage you need. Then you add a switch to that so you can "activate" blanking so your RGB single you are adding can be seen.

Find blanking first, it's easy to test. Supply a composite signal, add voltage (could be groud too, look at your sets service manual or chip, or someone who has done that tv already) If when you supply voltage, the screen goes black, and then when you remove, you get your composite picture, then you have your blanking right. (or you blow it all up and get to start over, so disclaimer that I know nothing at all :)

It should be fairly obvious which is blank, BLK, YS, things like that. I would check it's voltage first and see what is running through it or most seem to have success with either 5v (seems common), 3v, or ground. Others seem to go deep and look up the specific Jungle chip specs to see what the voltage is, up to you.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:45 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
flynnsbit wrote:
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
Ah, I see pin 16 now. Looking at your BA-4D writtin diagram, what part of the blanking switch is attached to scart pin 16?


What do you mean by "Which part"?

Hoping I can help answer. Follow the purple path in his diagram (his was a Sanyo example), though your blanking pin could be anything so you would need to get your own service manual and follow the diagram to your jungle chip. You are adding voltage to that line from some other part on the board, like a 5v dc source from a voltage reg, 5v standby, really anything that gives you the voltage you need. Then you add a switch to that so you can "activate" blanking so your RGB single you are adding can be seen.

Find blanking first, it's easy to test. Supply a composite signal, add voltage (could be groud too, look at your sets service manual or chip, or someone who has done that tv already) If when you supply voltage, the screen goes black, and then when you remove, you get your composite picture, then you have your blanking right. (or you blow it all up and get to start over, so disclaimer that I know nothing at all :)

It should be fairly obvious which is blank, BLK, YS, things like that. I would check it's voltage first and see what is running through it or most seem to have success with either 5v (seems common), 3v, or ground. Others seem to go deep and look up the specific Jungle chip specs to see what the voltage is, up to you.


And obviously if you are using SCART pin 16 then instead of the TV blanking (through the board to a switch), you are having the console or device connecting to it supply the voltage necessary to blank. My above example is for quickly testing if you have blanking right, and know the voltage necessary for it to trigger properly.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:04 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
flynnsbit wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
Ah, I see pin 16 now. Looking at your BA-4D writtin diagram, what part of the blanking switch is attached to scart pin 16?


What do you mean by "Which part"?

Hoping I can help answer. Follow the purple path in his diagram (his was a Sanyo example), though your blanking pin could be anything so you would need to get your own service manual and follow the diagram to your jungle chip. You are adding voltage to that line from some other part on the board, like a 5v dc source from a voltage reg, 5v standby, really anything that gives you the voltage you need. Then you add a switch to that so you can "activate" blanking so your RGB single you are adding can be seen.

Find blanking first, it's easy to test. Supply a composite signal, add voltage (could be groud too, look at your sets service manual or chip, or someone who has done that tv already) If when you supply voltage, the screen goes black, and then when you remove, you get your composite picture, then you have your blanking right. (or you blow it all up and get to start over, so disclaimer that I know nothing at all :)

It should be fairly obvious which is blank, BLK, YS, things like that. I would check it's voltage first and see what is running through it or most seem to have success with either 5v (seems common), 3v, or ground. Others seem to go deep and look up the specific Jungle chip specs to see what the voltage is, up to you.


And obviously if you are using SCART pin 16 then instead of the TV blanking (through the board to a switch), you are having the console or device connecting to it supply the voltage necessary to blank. My above example is for quickly testing if you have blanking right, and know the voltage necessary for it to trigger properly.


Thank you for this. I was mixing up at a fundamental level. I've fixed my blanking and now I have a great sharp RGB picture! Unfortunately, the colors are off. Does anybody recognize this color scheme? Maybe my green line needs to be reflowed?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:42 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
Looks like you have blue and red backwards? You sure you went B-B and R-R?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
flynnsbit wrote:
Looks like you have blue and red backwards? You sure you went B-B and R-R?


You're right. Good lord it's good to finally have this picture :) Thank you everyone!

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:02 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Looks like you have blue and red backwards? You sure you went B-B and R-R?


You're right. Good lord it's good to finally have this picture :) Thank you everyone!

Image


Congrats! Looks good, if you haven't done it already in the thread, post your model and the mod you did with pics and the pins you used. Can help others.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:12 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Looks like you have blue and red backwards? You sure you went B-B and R-R?


You're right. Good lord it's good to finally have this picture :) Thank you everyone!

[img]

I take tips in the form of 13" trinitrons or leads on JVC D-series in Texas :D


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:39 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
flynnsbit wrote:
bigthumbs2511 wrote:
flynnsbit wrote:
Looks like you have blue and red backwards? You sure you went B-B and R-R?


You're right. Good lord it's good to finally have this picture :) Thank you everyone!

[img]

I take tips in the form of 13" trinitrons or leads on JVC D-series in Texas :D


Ah, I've got a D-series, but I'm in NJ. This tv has an issue now. It worked great for about an hour, then it showed nothing and I'm getting the 5 blink stand by light. It powers on automatically when plugged in too. Ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:54 pm 



Joined: 12 Apr 2020
Posts: 42
bigthumbs2511 wrote:

Ah, I've got a D-series, but I'm in NJ. This tv has an issue now. It worked great for about an hour, then it showed nothing and I'm getting the 5 blink stand by light. It powers on automatically when plugged in too. Ugh.

Remove blanking and then see if it does it still. If you are pulling 5v from somewhere on the board it could be that and you need to get it from somewhere else. IF you are getting it from the console over scart then I am not sure whats wrong.


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