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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:17 am 


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Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 55
Has anyone ever tried a RGB mod on a PVM-14L1? Looking at the datasheet it has a TDA9394H/N. I can't find a datasheet on this jungle. Pins 51-53 look interesting to me, but the blanking pin is designated by just (x). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:17 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 657
suprcrackers wrote:
Has anyone ever tried a RGB mod on a PVM-14L1? Looking at the datasheet it has a TDA9394H/N. I can't find a datasheet on this jungle. Pins 51-53 look interesting to me, but the blanking pin is designated by just (x). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Image

Image


That TDA9494H/N chip is mentioned in this datasheet. I have the russian and one I used an online tool to translate.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-K7m_ ... H6moqCgQPj
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oGbhv ... W0AMuFlLdW

It's part of the original Philips UOC (Universal One Chip) family of micom/jungle chips.

It is also used in the Sony FE-2 chassis so you might get some pointers there.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am 


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Posts: 4
MarkOZLAD wrote:
GeeDee wrote:
GeeDee wrote:
(admittedly massive) Pics etc under the spoiler; I think I've got the entire gameplan down, I just want the green light that I'm on the right track from someone more experienced than I. Thanks in advance!

Spoiler: show
I have a few tubes I'd like to try this with, but I'm starting with a Memorex MT1197. Important pics below, but let me know if you need the whole manual! :D



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Image





Image



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I have this right, I'm removing R120-R123 and adding jumpers in their place. Then I'm removing R102-R104, and replacing them with 750 resistors, since the original inline resisters I removed were 4,700 and there are no diodes between there and the IC. The 4,700 on R124 for blanking however stays, if I'm understanding the Mux mod circuit diagram correctly. Terminate RGB and Blanking with 75ohms to ground at the scart, then solder the other ends to the jumpers I made on R120-R123. There's already a 0.1uf cap leading out, so that wouldn't need to be replaced. The rest seems pretty cake in comparison...so long as I have the rest of that right :roll:

Let me know if I have anything backwards!


Small bump :) hoping to still get the green light on this before I break things out. I have these tubes out in a seperate garage atm, so Ill head out to grab the sets after I order anything extra that I might need. Thanks in advance!



Looks like a standard OSD mux.

You DO NOT "remove R120-R123 and add jumpers". R120-R123 are your OSD factory inline resistors, you need to keep them.

R102-R104 are the grounding resistors. The muxing is done here with the 750R (as per the table) with 75R.

If R102-R104 are through-hole use the twist method ala the 8-Bit Guy mod.

I suggest you look at your TV schematic and the mux diagram a bit more because you are a bit confused. Might be a good idea to check out my Sony BA-5D mod thread and look at the patterns in play.


Success!...sort of. Forgive the "meh" pic, my phones getting a little age on it. I was definitely overcomplicating things at the start- thanks again for the advice! Obviously the Red isnt coming through, but having stable sync and a working picture is more than enough for me. Wish I would have started with a through-hole set :roll: but just means the problem points are easy to track down from here. :D I'll tackle looking over the Red again tomorrow, but this is still a win in my book for now!

Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:19 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 657
GeeDee wrote:
Success!...sort of. Forgive the "meh" pic, my phones getting a little age on it. I was definitely overcomplicating things at the start- thanks again for the advice! Obviously the Red isnt coming through, but having stable sync and a working picture is more than enough for me. Wish I would have started with a through-hole set :roll: but just means the problem points are easy to track down from here. :D I'll tackle looking over the Red again tomorrow, but this is still a win in my book for now!

Spoiler: show
Image


Looks like you might have got a MMB mod....Mustard Mustard Blue.

Bring up the colour bars pattern and see if the red and green bars are both showing yellow. If so you have somehow joined the two.

It's definitely good progress though.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:01 pm 


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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 4
Not too much luck with the memorex. No continuity anywhere between any of the RGB lines that I could track down, and no abrasive yellowing leads me to believe nothing was obviously joined together...coupled with the red injection pad lifting off the chassis during the 2nd go, I'm just gonna call this one a loss and put the experience in my pocket for the next one. I've got the exact same Disney TV that was posted not too long ago that I'm gonna start on next now that I've got some panel mount scart ports, but I'm having some trouble tracking down some service manuals for a couple of sets:

RCA F27636BC

Philips MS3252S431

Turned up a few user manuals, but no service. Figured I would check here if anyone has seen/worked on either of these before I go about cracking them open and start drawing out traces manually...the philips is a massive 32", so I'd like to move that one around a little as I can help lol. Also, from what I've read in the thread: any set that has both component and S-video options by default are a no-go for the mod, right? I have two other sets in the pile that have those options, so I just wanted to confirm.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:44 am 



Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 8
Hm, the set i have i a Memorax unit as well. Not sure what IC i should be looking at since it is a tv/vcr combo. Looks like it has a similar chroma/micon ic setup too. I think this one is a no go.

https://elektrotanya.com/memorex_mvt209 ... nload.html


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:27 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
If the osd is muxing on the output rgb pins from the jungle instead of input rgb pins (which my jungle chip doesn't have) is there a chance it's possible to do to an rgb mod from there? Or is this still considered a neck board mod and best left alone? The osd and jungle datasheets are unclear to me on what the voltages are. The osd might be 0.4v but i am unsure if that's peak to peak. I might try using an oscilloscope.

This pic shows where the r,g,b lines go from the jungle.

Image


Last edited by jeffez on Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:06 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 11
That’s not true @GeeDee, I just did a Toshiba that has both types of inputs and I understand many Sony WEGA have been done as well. It’s the jungle chip that is the deciding factor from what I’ve learned, find which chip you have and maybe these nice folks can help from there.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:50 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1379
Location: Australia
When doing a neckboard mod you cant just throw your RGB signal at it and have it work.

You need to research DC BIAS or else you will have a dark shitty picture with off colors.

Its a PITA and not worth the hassle when you can find a set with a decent jungle on the side of the road..


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:40 am 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
Syntax wrote:
When doing a neckboard mod you cant just throw your RGB signal at it and have it work.

You need to research DC BIAS or else you will have a dark shitty picture with off colors.

Its a PITA and not worth the hassle when you can find a set with a decent jungle on the side of the road..

It's been a bit of an ongoing passion project for a small 90s trinitron i found. There's plenty of big 2000s crts in my area but i never see any small crts what so ever and I'm not sure why.

Is there any good notes/guides on successful neckboard mods? I might at least take a look. I know there was someone who did it on this thread but it was a long time ago and i can't find it.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:20 am 


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FYI, I'm working on something for this. Stay tuned :)
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:43 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1379
Location: Australia
Tims AV driver board was the best thing you could hope to use on a neckboard mod, but costs too much to be viable and the setup was too confusing for most to follow.

If segasonicfan knows hes stuff then you will be in luck.

I looked into making a board that would work as a jungle for direct neckboard mods but gave up.

Keep us posted with progress segasonicfan, sounds interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:40 pm 



Joined: 20 Nov 2019
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
segasonicfan wrote:
FYI, I'm working on something for this. Stay tuned :)

That's awesome i will keenly await to see what you come up with! Even a diy.

Syntax wrote:
Tims AV driver board was the best thing you could hope to use on a neckboard mod, but costs too much to be viable and the setup was too confusing for most to follow.

If segasonicfan knows hes stuff then you will be in luck.

I looked into making a board that would work as a jungle for direct neckboard mods but gave up.

Keep us posted with progress segasonicfan, sounds interesting.

I can definitely see the need for a something like this. The old curved aperture grille on mine already looks amazing even with s-video. With rgb i think these older sets could rival some pvms with similar tubes. Will wait and see about a neckboard rgb mod in future then and in the meantime finish my s-video mod.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:48 am 


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Location: Perth, Australia
Hey All,

I was hoping someone could give me a hand with modding my Sony KV-G21S2 TV. I found some info online of someone successfully modding this TV using the RGB from the teletext slot (there's no chip but it looks like its still all connected). I found this slot with RGB and Blanking clearly labelled and I'm just confused what needs to be hooked up where.

Here's the quote from the person who successfully completed this mod:
Quote:
I recently did this with a Sony KV-G21S2. There's a point on the board for the Teletext module with the RGB and Blanking pins clearly labled (on the underside). It looked like it was already terminated properly, so I just connected the RGB lines directly to it off a SCART connector, the composite and audio on the existing AV1 input and it all just worked!


Service Manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yk7i4p ... sp=sharing
Jungle IC: TDA8375A
Here's the pictures of the PCB where the teletext chip should be: Images


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:04 am 


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Joined: 12 Feb 2020
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Location: Perth, Australia
Double Post Sorry.


Last edited by dc_abstracted on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 2
mgerety wrote:
OK, so for the 25RS-100 post above (look 3 posts back)...

There are no diodes or caps inbetween IC2001 (IX3528CE System Control) and the IC201 (Jungle IX3354CE) .. All lines (including blanking) have a 6.8k resistor on them inline between IC2001 and IC201.

I'm assuming based on this:
Image

I should be using 1.1k Ohm resistors on the RGB lines (terminated to ground with 75ohm resistors), and inject this in the hole of the resistor on the leg CLOSEST to IC201. Does that sound right?

Any ideas for the blanking line? do I just shove 5v directly into the blanking pin? do I inject 5v high on the leg closest to IC2001 so it goes through the resistor? Do I need another or different resistor there?

For 5V source, looks like I can clean 5v off Pin 3 of IC771 (5V Regulator), from topside jumper 906. Does that sound right?
Image
Image

For reference, the Jungle IC is equivalent to Sanyo LA76843N, datasheets here: https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet ... 6843N.html



We're you ever able to get this to work? I'm doing this on a different model sharp with the same jungle trip and circuitry, but it doesn't seem to want to give me an image.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:27 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 2
A question on tangent to my previous post. If we come across a set that only wants a digital RGB signal, then couldn't we just use something like an Arduino nano to covert analog to digital to highjack the OSD?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:27 pm 



Joined: 23 Feb 2020
Posts: 1
Is it possible to go from DVi out on video card or use a VGA adaptor to RGB in on my TV ? I have a arcade that i emulate consoles and run Mame on, but images are not clear and i get bad flicker or image shake. Im using S-video now. I'm looking for a better solution any help greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:50 pm 


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Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Chile
daihashi wrote:
A question on tangent to my previous post. If we come across a set that only wants a digital RGB signal, then couldn't we just use something like an Arduino nano to covert analog to digital to highjack the OSD?


Check this

https://immerhax.com/?p=305

I have had such a bad luck with my Trinitron CRTs, both of them have digital RGB in :roll: With the smaller one, KV-21R20 BA-3 Chassis, CXA1870S Jungle it seems that I have good RGB with consoles only, tried with Raspberry Pi (VGA 666 RGB out) and I get the same color problems as with my bigger Trinitron. Oh well, I wish it was easier to spot a non-flat Sony Trinitron that is moddeable.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:21 pm 



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 65
Location: Denmark
daihashi wrote:
A question on tangent to my previous post. If we come across a set that only wants a digital RGB signal, then couldn't we just use something like an Arduino nano to covert analog to digital to highjack the OSD?


Unsure what you mean but digital RGB is only 8 colors. Using an Arduino to intercept I2C and change RGB inputs to analog (if the jungle supports it) is another thing that could be totally possible.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:21 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 1
Hi, trying to mod a Sharp 19N-M100S CRT. The jungle chip is a IX3354CE, which apparently might be an LA76843N.

I've tied my SCART R,G,B lines into pins 14,15, & 16 on the jungle IC with 0.1 uF caps and terminated to ground via 75ohms.
SCART pin 20 runs into the composite input connector.
SCART pin 16 is tied into the stock resistor that the OSD chip normally uses (R2027 on schematic).

Unfortunately, only getting a white screen, maybe indicative of sync not being processed properly?

If I remove the blanking wire, I can see the pin 20 sync tied to the composite AV port is good, as there's a black and white image coming from my source. My scart cable is sync-on-Luma, so I guess this makes sense? Once blanking is reenabled, it's just white screen. Disconnect the green line, and screen is purple (etc, etc).

Anyone have any thoughts? Is sync-on-luma a problem here? Would modifying my cable to sync-on-composite be worth a try?

Recap:
R2024, R2025, R2026 removed, R,G,B source tied in to jungle IC side through holes.
R2027 OSD-side leg lifted, source blanking signal tied into R2027.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:10 pm 


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Posts: 810
Was able to SVideo mod my Symphonic (Funai) 20" flat tube and the picture is fantastic other than 1 small issue. There seems to be a bit of signal reflection causing a dim drop shadow / double image on white lettering. I think its due to impedance mismatch and I've tried several things to fix it with no luck, and I have the issue even with only Luma connected, so at least I've narrowed it down that much. Ive tried direct coupling, series 75 ohm resistors, 75Ohm resistors parallel to ground, 47uF AC caps in series, .1uF caps in series, on the chroma and luma. Ive tried them as near to the video input chip as possible, but had better luck closer to the input connector I installed on the TV.

Can anyone help me out with suggestions?

Full Size Set Including Screenshots Here: https://imgur.com/a/3VU2Zm8

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:06 pm 



Joined: 16 Jan 2020
Posts: 5
dork wrote:
Hi, trying to mod a Sharp 19N-M100S CRT. The jungle chip is a IX3354CE, which apparently might be an LA76843N.

I've tied my SCART R,G,B lines into pins 14,15, & 16 on the jungle IC with 0.1 uF caps and terminated to ground via 75ohms.
SCART pin 20 runs into the composite input connector.
SCART pin 16 is tied into the stock resistor that the OSD chip normally uses (R2027 on schematic).

Unfortunately, only getting a white screen, maybe indicative of sync not being processed properly?

If I remove the blanking wire, I can see the pin 20 sync tied to the composite AV port is good, as there's a black and white image coming from my source. My scart cable is sync-on-Luma, so I guess this makes sense? Once blanking is reenabled, it's just white screen. Disconnect the green line, and screen is purple (etc, etc).

Anyone have any thoughts? Is sync-on-luma a problem here? Would modifying my cable to sync-on-composite be worth a try?

Recap:
R2024, R2025, R2026 removed, R,G,B source tied in to jungle IC side through holes.
R2027 OSD-side leg lifted, source blanking signal tied into R2027.

CAUTION. I'm NOT by ALL MEANS expert in CRT MODDING please DONT TAKE MY WORD AS SOLUTION.
Hi, this will help to understand how to create my own wiring and so, i have a Sharp 19L-M100(very similar to yours), i'm too trying to mod this crt too, I have one doubt, did you ground pins 17, 18 and 21 in the scart socket(the one that will stay inside your tv NOT your scart cable)? also, where are the osd/external rgb mux resistors? in your case you need three 1100R one for R, another for G, and one for B, you never mentioned this things in your explanation...sorry if you already had everything in place and you felt you did not need to explain every step. I'm a new user trying to understand many things in CRT modding.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:19 pm 


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Posts: 1379
Location: Australia
If you are seeing CMY ( cyan, magenta and yellow ) you are in YUV territory.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:02 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
If you are seeing CMY ( cyan, magenta and yellow ) you are in YUV territory.


Hey Syntax, any tips for eliminating signal reflection on white letters for my SVideo mod above? Im coupling with 47uF caps (tried 0.1ufs had worse image) and paralleling both Y and C to ground with 75 ohm resistors. Ghosting seems to be from luma as I get it even on luma only B&W image. It is subtle, but not present on my Trinitron from the same source (gamecube).

Perhaps installing a video amp close to the MICOM chip inputs with proper terminations to help somehow? I also thought about using some mini-RG 59 75 ohm coax run from the SVideo connector to the MICOM chip as well. Thoughts?

See the left side of the lettering in the image here From that pic it looks like a convergence issue, but its not. The left side ghosting is not present with composite and its more of a ghost image slightly shifted to the left rather than blue misconvergence, the pic just doesnt show it very well.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:14 pm 


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Location: Australia
Ghost images are generally from sync being processed twice.
You will need to ensure your sync is only entering the jungle at one point and that it is the correct point.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:53 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Ghost images are generally from sync being processed twice.
You will need to ensure your sync is only entering the jungle at one point and that it is the correct point.


Technically thats what it is, but its caused by a signal reflection from (my best guess) a mismatched impedance, not from being connected at multiple points. I soldered a PATA wire directly to pin 29 and one to pin 30 and checked with a DMM to ensure no short between the two. The reflected signal is phase shifted slightly and greatly reduced in amplitude, which is exactly what would cause slight image ghosting on hot (white) signals such as white text on a black background.

I know these points are correct as they are the only points on the schmatic for the MICOM chip, grounding the SVideo "Sense" wire switches input 1's video to the SVideo source, and I have a generally very good image overall. I guess I'll need to connect a scope to the line, which I have, but my problem is that I dont have a test pattern generator to give a pure white signal on the luma and chroma.

I do have Swiss for GC, perhaps I can load a copy of the 240p test suite from Swiss?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:35 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2020
Posts: 1
Hello one and all,

I been looking for the service manual for a INSIGNIA IS-TV040920 - I found the user's manual, but not the service manual
Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated, I want to try the "RGB mod" and I am look for the schematics

Where can I find the service guide or the schematics for it?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:15 pm 



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 65
Location: Denmark
virt-junk wrote:
Hello one and all,

I been looking for the service manual for a INSIGNIA IS-TV040920 - I found the user's manual, but not the service manual
Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated, I want to try the "RGB mod" and I am look for the schematics

Where can I find the service guide or the schematics for it?


The internet. If the internet doesn't have it, then the next step is opening up the sucker and start tracing yourself. The latter is interesting and quite rewarding in the end, but the service manual is of course the easiest.

Most important is to find the jungle IC. Usually this will be the easiest step, and it is a crucial one. Open it up, find the biggest IC(s), take pictures, upload here and let the hive mind work.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:35 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2020
Posts: 2
Hi!
I apologise if this is in the wrong place or if I'm not doing this right. I feel like I'm interupting on someone else's question but I don't know where else to ask. I'm new here and I haven't really posted on any forums before. Onto the question.

My friend has aquired a Sony KV-2645RS. This Sony trinitron tv set only has RF and UHF/VHF (antenna) inputs. It has no OSD or closed captioning as far as I know. I want to RGB mod this tv.

From the research I have done I don't think anyone has RGB modded any RF only TV's and I'm not sure why. I have the schematics. Can you not inject the RGB before the drive circuitry even if I was to build a preamp circuit? Where would I get the sync?

Something else that I am curious about is that I want to be able to use vga input on the TV and The 8 Bit Guy used a DOS program to force his video card to use 15khz but I don't plan on using this with a DOS computer. I have seen some boards and all sorts of devices used for this(I think some kind of downscaler). Some range from $25 to $300 but I'm not sure what I should use

An issue that this tv may have is that it might have a hot chassis. I don't want to be electrocuted and I want to stay safe.

Attached are the schematics for this tv. If anyone could help with this I would greatly appreciate it!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mUG25o ... p=drivesdk

Thanks
Dawson


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