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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:20 am 



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 20
Location: New York
MarkOZLAD wrote:
Sounds like the green circuit has an issue if the OSD was green and is now red.

Have to check everything with a multimeter, in resistance mode. Make sure you have continuity ~0 ohms when you should just have a complete circuit, also check resistance to ground and make sure each of R,G and B read the same.

Take photos where you removed the surface mount resistors. Look for possible issues.


Turns out I was incorrect. My parents have the same CRT in their kitchen and the INPUT is red and the volume OSD are the same colors as well. INPUT still comes in initially as a rectangular blob (blown out) and reduces into the word Input. I still feel like all of the OSD is a little blurry - although I do not remember how blurry it was before I attempted the mod. When I turn it on and initially use the volume controls it appears as a blob, like INPUT. When I had the Wii plugged in through component (green cable only) the menu and warning text seemed to be clearer, making me think just the OSD will have this problem. The wires are running to these points on the board:

Image

Based on my best attempt to trace the pads to the Jungle, I soldered to these locations. If you work your way down the image, the side I solder to is right, right, left. I need to double-check to see which pad was lifting/damaged, and will update this shortly when I do.

If you look at my previous post, you can see the resistors circled (in red, green, and blue) and determine if I am connected to the wrong side, not that I know if this could cause this.

When plugging in the N64, this is the image I was getting:

Image

What you are seeing is the logo from the intro to Goldeneye 007. Initially, nothing would display and I would get a scrambled signal (either black juttery screen or descending bars of scrambled b&w mess), but after playing with my Sync/composite wire in the front input I finally got this. The audio wire does not work at all so I am assuming I have some issues with my SCART input wiring. I also figure all the issues could be occurring here, but I figured I would ask about how my wiring to the pads is.

Thanks again!

Update: Now the TV will not display anything again. Having the N64 running to the SCART input with the composite cable plugged into the front of the unit for Sync causes a series of descending diagonal blocks of lines/scramble.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:19 am 


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So the only appropriate course of action now is to sneak into your parents place and switch sets while no ones looking right?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:53 am 


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Hi All

Long time lurker who is ready to take the plunge and try and mod my first set. The 8 bit Guy video makes it look easy but I thought I should check in with people who know what they are doing beofre I warm up the soldering iron.

So I have a Pansonic set, chasis MX-4 which I have the servcie manual for. It shows 3.3KOhm coming from the red line from the microcontroller and 3.9KOhm for the blue and green lines.
Should I add a 620 Ohm resistor to the red line and 750 Ohm resistors for blue and green after the orginal ones? Does it matter that these lines go to ground through 330PF caps before these resistors?

Does it matter what guage wire I use to wire this up? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:13 am 


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Thanks Bratwurst, for helping me mod my Toshiba 32A33! I made a video.

https://youtu.be/zyZUW1inATk

Image


Last edited by Neo-Alec on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:12 am 


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Hi! I'm new here, I'm just confirming if my Sony KV 13M20 is RGB moddable since I've never preformed one before. I'm seeing a OSD BLK on pin 11 and OSD R/G/B on 12, 13, and 14, with arrows pointing toward it.

Image

So with 0.1uF caps and 75 Ohm resistors on ground this should give me the RGB input I desire? Once I get confirmation I'm putting the trigger on these parts I want to order.

I can provide the service manual too if any of you need it, Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:26 am 


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OK a quick update even though I haven't started anything yet. Having another look at the curcuit diagram again today and I noticed that this board has all the lines I need in a convient header. Seems some models of this set have a teletext card which mine does not. So I have everything sitting there on a bunch of pins going to the jungle IC which I assume is easier to use instead of getting inbtween the microcotroller and the jungle. How can I figure out what resistors I need to use going in via these pins?

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:08 pm 


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I have a 32" KV-32S40 that looks like it'd be a great set to RGB mod in theory, but I really don't know anything at all about how to actually proceed. I've seen reports of successful modding on the internet and on this site but no instructions... would anyone be willing to lend some help?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:38 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
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Those caps you are talking about are filter caps. You can ignore them.

Use the empty RGB header for sure.

Check the actual resistors on the TV chassis. On the MX4 I have they are all the same value despite what the schematic says.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:48 pm 


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hi i have a kv27s42 that i rgb modded but i was wanting to do the mux method does anyone have a diagram showing what resistors i should add to get the mux working if anyone can help would be appreciated


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:24 pm 


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rx7turbo233 wrote:
hi i have a kv27s42 that i rgb modded but i was wanting to do the mux method does anyone have a diagram showing what resistors i should add to get the mux working if anyone can help would be appreciated


I already answered this in your PM but I'll put it here too in case someone else is looking. Mark has diagrams and information here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&p=1342960


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:40 am 


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Thanks for the advice Mark. You are absoutley right about the resistors being different on the board to what is shown in the MX4 schematics.

The blanking resistors have me stumped. On the schematic it shows two in line a 1.8k and a 2.2k labbeled R1145 and R1146. I found R1145 on the board and it has a SMD resistor with the value 000. Underneath it is something lablled JS1145 which has a resistor with the value of 103. I can't locate a R1146 at all.

After stocking up at Jaycar today I am ready to have a go this weekend but I'm not sure what I can do about that blanking line.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:32 am 



Joined: 16 Mar 2012
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Hello everyone! I'm back. My older posts about this Sony Trinitron KV-27EXR25 TV starts in page 85 in this thread.
So as advised, I tried with pins 15 (Blanking), 16-17-18 for RGB. I've been inspecting the service manual and Jungle datasheet, also the chassis itself, and I found that these pins come from the P board, where the PiP action is created.

Image

In closer inspection, I noticed that there is a cable that connects both main and P boards, so I used this to try the mod (I'm using snipping method this time, just to make it work).
Here are pics of both ends.

Image
P board side

Image
A board side

I'm feeding +5V to Ys. Sadly, no picture now! I assume there's something wrong with the voltage (as advised in my previous attempt) but I'm having problems identifying that in the datasheets / service manuals. Any help?
Once again, many thanks!!

Edit: I also found an older post, explaining the use of PiP pins, with the added benefit of not losing OSD (I don't really care about losing PiP, as it will became the main input if this mod works!)
But I don't understand how the small PiP box will go fullscreen, this has to do with the voltage of Ys I assume? Link to that post:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&start=210


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:03 am 


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OK so I wired everything up this weekend hooked up a PS2 to test it and got a picture first time! My excitment was short lived when I relaised it was a composite signal. Hooked up my PAL PSOne with the 240p test suite using the same cable and got a black & white image so that confirmed it. Tried running 5v direct to the blanking line after that but it didnt help.
I'm thinking my next best option is to lift the leg of the jungle chip and solder directly to that unless there is anyone here with any better ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:56 pm 


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Turn on Scart in the service menu?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:04 am 



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GreatSage wrote:
OK so I wired everything up this weekend hooked up a PS2 to test it and got a picture first time! My excitment was short lived when I relaised it was a composite signal. Hooked up my PAL PSOne with the 240p test suite using the same cable and got a black & white image so that confirmed it. Tried running 5v direct to the blanking line after that but it didnt help.
I'm thinking my next best option is to lift the leg of the jungle chip and solder directly to that unless there is anyone here with any better ideas?


What type of sync is being outputted from console?
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OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:21 am 


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Syntax: Nothing in the service menu except birghtness/contrast and geometry. Don't think this chassis ever had SCART.

MarkOZLAD: Not sure about My PS2 cable, some random one I bought years ago. My PS1 cable is from retogaming cables and is wired for csync. Both work fine with my gscart.

So two things now, I no longer get a black and white picture using my ps2 cable on the ps1 after adding the 5v on to the blanking line. No picture at all on any video input - my scart socket or the built in composite inputs. I tried an old DVD player on AV1 and AV2 via composite. It knows something is there it goes form a blue screen to a black one when when I turn something on. OSD works fine the whole time.
So obviously I have to remove the 5v I currently have on the blanking line but other than that I'm not sure what to try next.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:33 pm 


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The black and white image is why I suggested changing service menu settings.

Csync should show up as a ghost if its the only thing coming thru when RGB Blanking is active.

If its black and white the set is in SVideo mode and you may need to feed sync elsewhere or fix blanking.

I see now when you are blanking you have a black screen. This means you need to recheck your RGB inputs.

With no sync you should see a coloured rolling picture, with no RGB should see a ghost of a picture or nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:54 pm 



Joined: 30 Jul 2019
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Hi, so, after trying to figure all this out in PMs and so on, I finally just went and made a PCB to help me with the connections to the SCART connector. I was able to get RGB video working and it looks pretty nice. The OSD works as well. I'll upload pictures later after I fix the connector I made for the RGB +Blanking lines. The only question I have remaining is, on a AA-2D chassis (Sony KV27S26 specifically), does anyone know where on the chassis I could pull sync(composite video technically) and audio? I'd really like to reduce the size of the PCB I made as right now I'm using directly connected RCA for sync and audio. Looking on the diagram I can see a few resistors that are terminating to ground so I could probably inject there R1249, R1250, and R1252. I should be able to connect to the ungrounded side of these as well and just replace the ground terminations right? Is there some better place?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:25 pm 



Joined: 07 Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Hello,
I"ve been lurking around for quite some time, finally have a set I may be able to mod.

1990 RCA X13152GS

Can't find any service manual info for this thing.

I has the following 2 chips
M51408SP - Jungle? http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/M/5/1/4/M51408SP.shtml
TMP47C634N - OSD http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/T/M/P/4/TMP47C634N.shtml

I have the spec sheets of the chips, however I can't seem to determine where the blanking comes into play and if I can inject RGB into these chips to get the desired results.

Is there any one that can have a peek at these two chips and let me know if it is even possible to mod using these chips? I'd then spend some time tracing how the two are connected.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm 


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Hi guys. I got a used Sony Trinitron TV model KV27TS32 and was wondering if it could be modded for RGB.

The KV27TS32 is similar to the KV27TS29 (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) with the exception of lacking some extra capacitors and resistors which forum member BobWoggle used as injection points for his television. I don't see any solder placeholders where these would go on my board.

The only available injection points seems to be a group of resistors on the trace lines going into the OSD input pins of the jungle chip. Further complicating things is a metallic frame around the CXA1465AS jungle chip. While it's possible to remove the M board from the assembly the frame around it makes it difficult to work inside it. Doable but very uncomfortable.

Can this model be modded with the RGB mux method? Thanks for your time.

Here is a photo I took when I opened the case. At the time I took the photo I had yet to clean the insides so it looks very dusty!

(click for bigger)
Image
Image Image


Link to service manual (Page 71)


BobWoggle wrote:
Just got 3 27" trinitrons for the princely sum of $15, a KV-27TS29, a KV-27TS30, and a KV-27v65. All of them work but need some adjustment, hoping to mod them sometime this week or next.

Edit:
I've done the ts29, same chassis as the kv27s10 I did before, SCART pins 16, 15, 11, and 7 to jungle pins 15-18 respectively through 104 caps and 75ohm to ground, 20, 6, and 4 to AV1 inputs, and of course all of the ground pins to ground.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:41 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
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cargo wrote:
Hi guys. I got a used Sony Trinitron TV model KV27TS32 and was wondering if it could be modded for RGB.

The KV27TS32 is similar to the KV27TS29 (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) with the exception of lacking some extra capacitors and resistors which forum member BobWoggle used as injection points for his television. I don't see any solder placeholders where these would go on my board.

The only available injection points seems to be a group of resistors on the trace lines going into the OSD input pins of the jungle chip. Further complicating things is a metallic frame around the CXA1465AS jungle chip. While it's possible to remove the M board from the assembly the frame around it makes it difficult to work inside it. Doable but very uncomfortable.

Can this model be modded with the RGB mux method? Thanks for your time.

Here is a photo I took when I opened the case. At the time I took the photo I had yet to clean the insides so it looks very dusty!

(click for bigger)


The CXA1465AS has seperate Digital OSD RGB and analog RGB inputs. You will want to use the analog inputs. (No need to Mux)

Image

It appears that your TV will have a Closed Caption chip attached to the analog inputs. This will likely need to be isolated from the jungle. Then hijack the lines.

Image
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:36 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 629
Funnily enough....you could do a CCD/External RGB Mux...
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:39 pm 



Joined: 26 Jun 2019
Posts: 14
Help 14gl1319 philips.
Please guys help me to modify this tv already injected the signal of a psx but the picture was very bad and dark.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:53 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
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Romariu wrote:
Help 14gl1319 philips.
Please guys help me to modify this tv already injected the signal of a psx but the picture was very bad and dark.


It’s a standard OSD/External RGB Mux candidate. TDA8361 is your jungle.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:38 pm 


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MarkOZLAD wrote:
Funnily enough....you could do a CCD/External RGB Mux...


Thanks for the help. Personally I don't use close captioning at all. If it came to it clipping the corresponding legs on the CCD chip would not be a problem for me.

I still have to feed sync through the TV's composite jack right?

How do I go about blanking? Would enabling closed captions on the remote be all that's required? Or do I need to feed 5V to the YS pin on the jungle?

What got me confused was the schematics show the captioning decoder around a dashed outline. To my understanding that means components inside that area only apply to certain models. That little arrow on the image below is coming out of "/32TS46 (US) only" and stops at a solid line just above the dashed outline. Of course the KV27TS32 has a closed captions chip so I wasn't sure what to think. Will open up the TV and take more pictures.

(click for bigger)
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:41 am 



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There is a whole list of sets there separated by slashes. I assume that means all of those sets have the CCD.

Image

I mentioned a CCD/External RGB mux method because I think it may be the easiest method. A lot of people don't realise that when you do a mux method correctly, it's often far easier and cleaner than the dreaded snip method to implement. A lot less work.

See if you can find R159, R160 and R161 on the M board. If they are through-hole type this could be a very simple mod.

For blanking...Perhaps 5V through a switch, a 4700R and onto the leg of R165 farthest from the CCD chip.

Image

> I still have to feed sync through the TV's composite jack right?

That's the way I would do it. If you have S-Video or Component you can use them. S-Video Y (Luma) or Component Y...

EDIT: The picture you upped of the M board is very blurry, doesn't look like there are any through hole resistors on it. If that's the case we will likely want to remove R159,R160,R161,R162,R163 and R164. You would then inject 75R terminated RGB into the circuits so that they reach C317, 316 and 315 respectively, perhaps directly on their legs farthest from the jungle. Blanking remains as detailed above.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:16 pm 



Joined: 26 Jun 2019
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But what would be the correct voltage for fast blank?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:24 pm 


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Quote:
I mentioned a CCD/External RGB mux method because I think it may be the easiest method. A lot of people don't realise that when you do a mux method correctly, it's often far easier and cleaner than the dreaded snip method to implement. A lot less work.

I'd love to go this route. Your previous post however was for a switch right? Anyway after inspecting the M board I think I can follow your recommendations.


Quote:
EDIT: The picture you upped of the M board is very blurry, doesn't look like there are any through hole resistors on it. If that's the case we will likely want to remove R159,R160,R161,R162,R163 and R164. You would then inject 75R terminated RGB into the circuits so that they reach C317, 316 and 315 respectively, perhaps directly on their legs farthest from the jungle. Blanking remains as detailed above.


You are correct. No through holes, but the resistors and caps you mentioned are within easy reach (outside of the metal frame). I do have a few capacitors nearby R159 but I can work around those. Also the M Board can be completely removed from the motherboard.



(click for bigger)
Image



Am I correct to understand one of the legs of the 4.7K resistor goes where R164 would be. This is for CCD's pin 3 (Box). Is that right?

Image

BTW here is the datasheet:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hvk1mz8fjyiux21/MC144143P_MotorolaSemiconductor.pdf?dl=0

Quote:
See if you can find R159, R160 and R161 on the M board. If they are through-hole type this could be a very simple mod.


I found R159 (plus some other components you mentioned) located next to the CCD ship:


Image



Image

R160 and R161 are located on the back on the board:

Image


Image


Quote:
> I still have to feed sync through the TV's composite jack right?

That's the way I would do it. If you have S-Video or Component you can use them. S-Video Y (Luma) or Component Y...


Three composite video inputs with an additional S-Video port on VIDEO1.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:09 am 



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There appear to be a lot of via's (small holes that attach to circuits) on the board. I would be investigating whether they could be used as entry/solder points for through hole resistors. My "Plan A" would still be to remove R159, R160 and R161 and replacing them with two twisted together resistors (ala the 8 Bit Guy mod). In your case the CCD mux inlines would be 750 Ohm resistors that would be twisted to 75 Ohm resistors. (The resistors on the CCD lines, R162, R163 and R164 are 4700 so 750 can be looked up on my 0.7Vp-p cheat sheet in my signature)

Image

Another option would be to remove R159, R160 and R161, insert 750 Ohm resistors into the vias that are attached, then run these to the RGB inputs and do your 75 ohm termination at the input. (RCA/BNC/Scart/VGA).

For the diagram I drew for blanking I ignored the switch as it is trivial.
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


Last edited by MarkOZLAD on Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:19 am 



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Romariu wrote:
But what would be the correct voltage for fast blank?


Well I generally cheat this by inserting my 5V line into the existing blanking circuit. For example by lifting the leg of resistor 3940 that is closest to the micro controller and injecting 5V into it.

Image

The factory blanking circuit is 2K2 (resistor 3940) inline and 1K (resistor 3939) to ground. This voltage divider results in 5 * 1000 / (2200 + 1000) = 1.56V

If you don't understand voltage division and you are trying to RGB mod CRT TVs you might as well have one arm tied behind your back.

The datasheet for the TDA8361 suggests that blanking will start at 0.9V and max is 3V. At 4V it will switch to black.

Image
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit


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