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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:19 pm 



Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 36
Kez wrote:
Soundwave GI wrote:
I’ve seen that. I didn’t think I’d have to add a million resistors and wire up a fuckin bomb. I thought the idea was to make it all easier. I’m fairly new to modding all the stuff myself, but there are a lot of instructions out there that seem to assume you know a fair amount. Hard to learn when you don’t have easier instructions to do it on the first place and then help others. I prefer actual visuals of an assembly to schematics. I’ve learned infinitely more from Voultars videos than anything else. He just has a knack for translating to people that don’t do this every day and easing you into actually understanding.


It's not a million resistors, it's three. I suggest you learn how to read simple schematics like this as it will make it all easier. Not everyone who has information to share wants to make a video or take a bunch of pictures when something like this contains all of the required information. Which part of it are you having trouble with?


Sorry, my poor humor. Believe me, I’ve been taking a lot of time to learn a lot as I’ve jumped heavily into console modding on older systems. It’s just the NES has been a rabbit hole with one thing after another as I find all of the fantastic bells and whistles that can be added. I appreciate not only Tim’s boards, but several guys out there who do amazing work. I just prefer to see it done in a best practice method as I’m very OCD about it being just right. I’ll give it go with those schematics. Sorry for my impatience, just want to get it done and play some games.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:18 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 434
Yeah I get you, we're all still learning. There is more information now than ever before!

Anyway, afaik there isn't much difference between doing the mod for Everdrive and doing it for using real cartridges.. I believe the Everdrive is slightly quieter. If you are planning to use real cartridges you can still follow an Everdrive guide (like this one by FBX), just might need to tweak the resistor values to get the correct volume.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:31 pm 



Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 36
Kez wrote:
Yeah I get you, we're all still learning. There is more information now than ever before!

Anyway, afaik there isn't much difference between doing the mod for Everdrive and doing it for using real cartridges.. I believe the Everdrive is slightly quieter. If you are planning to use real cartridges you can still follow an Everdrive guide (like this one by FBX), just might need to tweak the resistor values to get the correct volume.


That guide is fantastic.
As for the resistance, I found this as a recommendation in another site, allowing from 0 to 100k:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/2712643

However, based on what I see on the FBX instructions, it looks like I can to from NESRGB -> R47k -> expansion 2 and 9 on NES, omitting the 1k resistor there that is to prevent everdrive noise. I suppose an on/off toggle switch would be wise to turn it off completely as the majority of my gaming won't be using the expansion audio.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:44 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 434
Soundwave GI wrote:
That guide is fantastic.
As for the resistance, I found this as a recommendation in another site, allowing from 0 to 100k:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/2712643

However, based on what I see on the FBX instructions, it looks like I can to from NESRGB -> R47k -> expansion 2 and 9 on NES, omitting the 1k resistor there that is to prevent everdrive noise. I suppose an on/off toggle switch would be wise to turn it off completely as the majority of my gaming won't be using the expansion audio.


Yeah so you could replace the 47K resistor with that 100K pot. Expansion pin 2 is just GND, so if you're not using the 1K resistor you can safely ignore that. What you'd be looking to do is: Expansion pin 9->100K pot->toggle switch->NESRGB. The 1K resistor isn't that tough to add though, so might be worth putting it in anyway.

EDIT: I am not sure what would happen if that pot went down to 0 though, so it might be better to use like a 10K resistor in series with the pot or something.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:05 am 


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Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1685
Location: Denmark
Hey I managed to fix my NES again :)

Had some more time tonight to experiment further. Looked at the various signals with my scope and found that the supposed PPU clock signal on pad 3 just looked like a bunch of nonsense. Certainly not what you would expect for a clock signal:

Image

So I figured that regardless if the PPU was fried or not this probably wasn't right. So I tried rewriting the firmware using a VM of Windows 7 instead. This did not help, but then I tried using firmware 1.9_de-jitter and what do you know?

Image

That's what we wanted to see!

So the firmware version 1.9A_de-jitter is apparantly faulty.

Tim has not had the opportunity to reply to my mail yet, but I'll write him a new one to make him aware of this post :)

Here is a picture of it working through my Framemeister, but it works on the OSSC too:
https://i.imgur.com/OP7EW9O.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:01 am 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 1153
Einzelherz wrote:
So everything came out the way I wanted, where the NES doesn't look modified. Palette is set to the ch3-ch4 switch, and the minidin looks mostly stock and feeds both rgb and s- video. I had to mount it upside down, which is a little awkward, to make things fit better, and cause I didn't feel like hacking away at the chassis.

Image

Image

Image

Apologies for the blurry photos. My camera is crap.


If you look at blurry photo #1 you'll see a wire coming from the right, back side of the board. That's connected through a resistor (as mentioned earlier, don't recall the value) to the expansion audio point on the opposite side of the board (also mentioned earlier in the thread). That feeds directly to the NESRGB, iirc, to a pin header I soldered to the side of it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:36 am 



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 83
I learned on twitter today that a guy in Japan has manufactured a board to reroute the NESRGB to underneath an OG Famicom motherboard, allowing you to preserve the operation of the eject mechanism. Losing this eject mechanism really bothered the purist in me, and it's the reason I went with the AV Famicom, so my eyes popped wide open when I realized what this was.

https://www.kadenken.com/shopdetail/000000000542/

https://bakutendo.net/blog-entry-308.html

I'm wondering if anyone else in the English speaking mod scene has tried this mod? I take it all it's really doing is re-routing the PPU pin connections to the underside of the motherboard, and it could probably be done with or without this board to assist you. But I'd really love it if some solution to this preserving eject mechanism were better known in English. Should we try to import this guy's board? Is there a tutorial on how to accomplish the mod without it? Is anyone else interested in this? I just want more people to know about this so we can have better solutions over here :D


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:51 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 377
PixelDharma wrote:
I learned on twitter today that a guy in Japan has manufactured a board to reroute the NESRGB to underneath an OG Famicom motherboard, allowing you to preserve the operation of the eject mechanism. Losing this eject mechanism really bothered the purist in me, and it's the reason I went with the AV Famicom, so my eyes popped wide open when I realized what this was.

https://www.kadenken.com/shopdetail/000000000542/

https://bakutendo.net/blog-entry-308.html

I'm wondering if anyone else in the English speaking mod scene has tried this mod? I take it all it's really doing is re-routing the PPU pin connections to the underside of the motherboard, and it could probably be done with or without this board to assist you. But I'd really love it if some solution to this preserving eject mechanism were better known in English. Should we try to import this guy's board? Is there a tutorial on how to accomplish the mod without it? Is anyone else interested in this? I just want more people to know about this so we can have better solutions over here :D


I've been using one of these since late 2017. It's great. Here's how the finished install looks like:

Spoiler: show
Image


The Japanese modder who did mine hacked a board for a Multi-Out connector as you can see there. I really like having this connector instead of the 8-pin connector. It works with all composite, s-video, and RGB Nintendo Multi-Out cables as well as third party ones, though my installation does not seem to support sync on luma RGB cables (though it works fine with s-video cables so I don't know what the problem is). Never tried csync, but a shielded sync on composite cable worked perfect.

The same circle that made the conversion boards also made an AV board with Multi-Out that can replace Tim's power board:
https://bakutendo.net/blog-entry-318.html
https://www.kadenken.com/shopdetail/000 ... ge1/order/

I want to get one and eventually replace it on my Famicom, but this hacked one has worked well enough.

Without the nostalgia factor not being as strong for the OG Fami in the West, and with the short controller cables being an issue or requiring further modding, perhaps there won't ever be enough demand for these to be readily available outside of Japan. But it's good info to spread around.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:16 pm 


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Posts: 101
fernan1234 wrote:
Without the nostalgia factor not being as strong for the OG Fami in the West, and with the short controller cables being an issue or requiring further modding, perhaps there won't ever be enough demand for these to be readily available outside of Japan. But it's good info to spread around.


That's neat. I sort of wish I'd known about it when I did mine, but I don't miss the ejection mechanism and it wasn't that good for the cartridges anyway.

To address the short controller cords, I wired in expansion cord ends and replaced the cable with NES controller cords for the Famicom pads. Originally I had wired in a sixth pin for the microphone port but I later redid it so I could just plug NES accessories into Player 2 without much fuss. The mic was a neat novelty but I don't plan on singing any karaoke so...

The 8-din is wired to support composite & s-video without audio, audio instead goes out of a custom 3 pin connector where the 3.5 jack would have been, I just dislike cutting original plastic when I can help it.

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:33 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 377
Bratwurst wrote:
The 8-din is wired to support composite & s-video without audio, audio instead goes out of a custom 3 pin connector where the 3.5 jack would have been, I just dislike cutting original plastic when I can help it.


I feel the same way, but in this case the plastic cut for the multi-out is fine. And it's a bonus to have both audio and video from the same cable.

Image

My solution for the short cables was one of these guys:

Image

Works pretty well! I don't know if there's supposed to be significant lag on them but I don't feel any. The extra extension port is nice because I prefer to use the Hudson pad as it has the same feel and form factor of the wired controllers.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:05 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Inquiry;

I have it's ossc how is optimal way to connect nsrgb? Is there existing cable direct and not SCART? Is there ability to use YPBPR alternate vga?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:46 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1211
kruuth wrote:
Inquiry;

I have it's ossc how is optimal way to connect nsrgb? Is there existing cable direct and not SCART? Is there ability to use YPBPR alternate vga?

Optimal way is going to be a fully-shielded cable to either AV1 (SCART) or AV2 (Component) on the OSSC, because the NES is going to benefit from the low-pass filters that are on those inputs (AV3's LPF is really only good for 960p/1080p/1200p input).

As for the connections, it really depends on what your console has and which input on the OSSC you want to connect to. If you had your console fitted with a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out, you should be able to use an off-the-shelf RGB SCART cable for the SNES/modded N64/modded GameCube. Alternatively, if you had your console fitted with audio going to an 8-pin DIN, you might be able to find a premade RGB SCART cable from Retro-Access or Retro Gaming Cables. If you instead had your console fitted with an 8-pin DIN for video plus a 3.5mm TRS for audio, you'll need a custom cable (Retro-Access might have premade cables for this). If you want to connect to AV3, you're going to need a custom whatever-to-DE-15 cable, with a 3.5mm TRS breakout on the OSSC end if you have a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out or audio integrated into the 8-pin DIN, or a separate 3.5mm TRS cable if you have a separate audio output.

If you want to use YPbPr over RGBS, you're going to additionally need the component video module for your NESRGB, and you're going to either have to use a SCART cable as described above, with the OSSC set to AV1-YPbPr; or you're going to need to wire Y, Pb, and Pr to G, B, and R respectively, and then get a custom RCA component cable that fits whatever output connections your console has.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:59 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I understand.

I own the NESRGB using the SCART now and a selection gate. There's a cable that can used to connect to the nesrgb to ossc on component pathway? I'd like because the scart selection is filled now and need to introduce another.

nmalinoski wrote:
kruuth wrote:
Inquiry;

I have it's ossc how is optimal way to connect nsrgb? Is there existing cable direct and not SCART? Is there ability to use YPBPR alternate vga?

Optimal way is going to be a fully-shielded cable to either AV1 (SCART) or AV2 (Component) on the OSSC, because the NES is going to benefit from the low-pass filters that are on those inputs (AV3's LPF is really only good for 960p/1080p/1200p input).

As for the connections, it really depends on what your console has and which input on the OSSC you want to connect to. If you had your console fitted with a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out, you should be able to use an off-the-shelf RGB SCART cable for the SNES/modded N64/modded GameCube. Alternatively, if you had your console fitted with audio going to an 8-pin DIN, you might be able to find a premade RGB SCART cable from Retro-Access or Retro Gaming Cables. If you instead had your console fitted with an 8-pin DIN for video plus a 3.5mm TRS for audio, you'll need a custom cable (Retro-Access might have premade cables for this). If you want to connect to AV3, you're going to need a custom whatever-to-DE-15 cable, with a 3.5mm TRS breakout on the OSSC end if you have a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out or audio integrated into the 8-pin DIN, or a separate 3.5mm TRS cable if you have a separate audio output.

If you want to use YPbPr over RGBS, you're going to additionally need the component video module for your NESRGB, and you're going to either have to use a SCART cable as described above, with the OSSC set to AV1-YPbPr; or you're going to need to wire Y, Pb, and Pr to G, B, and R respectively, and then get a custom RCA component cable that fits whatever output connections your console has.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:37 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1211
kruuth wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
kruuth wrote:
Inquiry;

I have it's ossc how is optimal way to connect nsrgb? Is there existing cable direct and not SCART? Is there ability to use YPBPR alternate vga?

Optimal way is going to be a fully-shielded cable to either AV1 (SCART) or AV2 (Component) on the OSSC, because the NES is going to benefit from the low-pass filters that are on those inputs (AV3's LPF is really only good for 960p/1080p/1200p input).

As for the connections, it really depends on what your console has and which input on the OSSC you want to connect to. If you had your console fitted with a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out, you should be able to use an off-the-shelf RGB SCART cable for the SNES/modded N64/modded GameCube. Alternatively, if you had your console fitted with audio going to an 8-pin DIN, you might be able to find a premade RGB SCART cable from Retro-Access or Retro Gaming Cables. If you instead had your console fitted with an 8-pin DIN for video plus a 3.5mm TRS for audio, you'll need a custom cable (Retro-Access might have premade cables for this). If you want to connect to AV3, you're going to need a custom whatever-to-DE-15 cable, with a 3.5mm TRS breakout on the OSSC end if you have a Nintendo-style AV Multi-out or audio integrated into the 8-pin DIN, or a separate 3.5mm TRS cable if you have a separate audio output.

If you want to use YPbPr over RGBS, you're going to additionally need the component video module for your NESRGB, and you're going to either have to use a SCART cable as described above, with the OSSC set to AV1-YPbPr; or you're going to need to wire Y, Pb, and Pr to G, B, and R respectively, and then get a custom RCA component cable that fits whatever output connections your console has.

I understand.

I own the NESRGB using the SCART now and a selection gate. There's a cable that can used to connect to the nesrgb to ossc on component pathway? I'd like because the scart selection is filled now and need to introduce another.

As far as I know, there's no simple component cable for the NESRGB, because people are primarily using it for RGB (Specifically RGBS over SCART), and anyone using the YPbPr output either has installed a secondary output and is using RCA cables, or they've rewired their output jacks from RGBS to YPbPr (or they might have installed a 4-pole double-throw switch to toggle between RGBS and YPbPr) and are using a custom RCA cable.

You need to figure out whether you want your console to output YPbPr natively and use a custom AV cable (simpler wiring, but requires further console modification) or you want to keep the existing RGBS output and convert to YPbPr with an external device (additional device requires additional power, the conversion can potentially degrade the image, can be done without modifying the console).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:47 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Clear. Is there an SCART to RGBS that existence?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:49 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1211
kruuth wrote:
Clear. Is there an SCART to RGBS that existence?

SCART is RGBS.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 11:23 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Clear. There's a cable in existence to convert scart to Rs,G,B doors?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:10 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1211
kruuth wrote:
Clear. There's a cable in existence to convert scart to Rs,G,B doors?

RsGB isn't a thing. If you mean RGsB, you can convert RGBS to RGsB with an Extron RGB interface. You'd need a SCART to DE-15 adapter to connect the console's SCART cable to the RGB interface, plus three BNC cables with female BNC to male RCA adapters (Or BNC to RCA cables if you can find them) to connect the RGB interface to AV2 on the OSSC. Then you'd just need to configure the RGB interface to output RGsB.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:04 am 


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Posts: 101
Does anyone have a glut of PCB and mini-din connectors (both the 8-pin and s-video) that come with the NESRGB kits that they'd like to get rid of? I need them for a project...


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:00 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Konsolkongen wrote:
Hey I managed to fix my NES again :)


So which one was the proper way to wire the mod? As the guide says, connect the isolated PPU pin 18 and #CS to palette pad 2, or #CS to pallette pad 2 and isolated PPU pin 18 to pallette pad 3?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:58 pm 


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Location: Denmark
You cut pin 18 on the actual PPU chip to isolate it from the NESRGB board.

Then you run a wire from that isolated pin to pad 3 on the NESRGB board (the guide says pad 2, but it's incorrect).

#CS goes to pad 2.

Also keep in mind that firmware 1.9A is broken and doesn't work. Use 1.9 de-jitter instead.

I've emailed Tim about this, but I guess he has been too busy to notice, or maybe my email arrived in his junk folder by accident :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:17 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Konsolkongen wrote:
You cut pin 18 on the actual PPU chip to isolate it from the NESRGB board.

Then you run a wire from that isolated pin to pad 3 on the NESRGB board (the guide says pad 2, but it's incorrect).

#CS goes to pad 2.

Also keep in mind that firmware 1.9A is broken and doesn't work. Use 1.9 de-jitter instead.

I've emailed Tim about this, but I guess he has been too busy to notice, or maybe my email arrived in his junk folder by accident :)


Thanks for the clarification! I was wondering why the pad 3 was totally unused on Tim's guide. I will also test this mod out when I have some spare time to take out my soldering iron and AV Famicom :)


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