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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:22 pm 


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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Burlington, Vermont, USA
Classicgamer wrote:
the Goat wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I would have thought that too but I have never been able to find any American SD CRT rear projection TV's with RGB. If they existed I assume Namco would have used them for the deluxe Time Crisis cabs instead of NTSC converters. Those PCBs all output RGB natively.

Can you clarify what you mean when you say NTSC? The NTSC system is fully compatible with RGB signals. The two are not mutually exclusive.


Yes they are (mutually exclusive). They are completely different color systems and definitely not fully compatible. You can have a TV that accepts both but a signal is one or the other, never both. Plenty of displays are only compatible with one but not the other. In fact, NTSC TV's with RGB are a tiny minority outside Japan.

A lot of people in Europe started using RGB for American and Japanese import consoles because their Pal and Secam TV's lacked NTSC compatibility. An American console could be used via RGB as long as the TV could handle a 60hz signal. If you connected it via Svideo or composite video, you got a black and white image as they use NTSC, Pal or Secam color.

American TV's had the opposite issue. They only work with NTSC or component Video with no RGB (in 99.999% of cases). Most arcade PCBs only output RGB. This was no issue for regular cabs as CRT arcade monitors accept RGB (they have no NTSC decoder). But Namco used consumer crt rear projection tv's for their deluxe cabs which only accepted NTSC color.

Namco's rgb to NTSC boards convert RGB color to NTSC which it outputs via composite video. It was only needed for the color as their 246 pcbs have 480p and 480i rgb options.


You wrote a lot. But you didn't answer my question. Are you talking about NTSC RF modulation schemes? In a retro gaming context, most people talk about NTSC in the context of the number of scan lines (525) and the frame/field rate (29.97/59.94). Both of those NTSC features are supported through RGB.
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Heliopause Heavy Industries :: video game console repairs and modifications


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:41 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 795
Ntsc in any context is a color system. RGB is a different color system. Component video is different again, as is Pal and secam. None of these are compatible with each other without an adapter. Using the wrong one results in a black and white image (at best).

You can't connect an RGB source into an NTSC TV with no RGB port. As I said already.... Namco's RGB to NTSC boards convert the RGB color to NTSC. They don't change the resolution or refresh rate as those 246 PCBs natively output both 480p and 480i rgb signals.

They are similar in functionality to these Jrok boards:

http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:19 am 


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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Burlington, Vermont, USA
Classicgamer wrote:
Ntsc in any context is a color system. RGB is a different color system.

You failed to answer my question yet again.

How about this, imagine an SNES originally sold in North America. It has an RF output and a Nintendo multiout with composite video output, s-video output, and RGB video output. Which of those output NTSC video?
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:32 am 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
RF, composite, and S-Video used NTSC colour encoding, RGB did not.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Guspaz wrote:
RF, composite, and S-Video used NTSC colour encoding, RGB did not.


Exactly.

And, as I said, NTSC color and RGB are not compatible with each other. The majority of arcade boards only output rgb and therefore can not be used with an American TV without a color transcoder like a jrok or Namco's own RGB to NTSC converters.

Arcade boards output a higher voltage too so you also need a resistor array to use CGA and EGA pcbs on a consumer TV (which is why people use a Supergun).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:50 am 


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Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 424
Location: n/america
I think that a good practical comparison is PAL video. If you watch something that was recorded for PAL like, say, The Muppet Show (which was recorded at Elstree), the color palette looks weird because they didn't really translate the system seamlessly. It looks weirdly dark, as does alot of the BBC stuff from the 80's.


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