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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:03 pm 


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Location: Germany
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And which does this extron spit out, RGBs or RGsB? I assume that is what the dipswitch is for?

yes, whatever is easier for you. With RGBs you could route the signal through the GScartSW. RGsB on the other hand requires only three instead of four wires, but might require an extra setting step on your PVM.

Quote:
And for the dipswitches

nothing you need. And if you want to see what they do, just try it.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:19 pm 



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 46
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
And which does this extron spit out, RGBs or RGsB? I assume that is what the dipswitch is for?

yes, whatever is easier for you. With RGBs you could route the signal through the GScartSW. RGsB on the other hand requires only three instead of four wires, but might require an extra setting step on your PVM.

Quote:
And for the dipswitches

nothing you need. And if you want to see what they do, just try it.


Okay great, i will be using RGBs just for convenience.

So just worry about the RGBs/RGsB switch? And forget the others..

Awesome! I can't wait to try this out, i need to order that extron now. Are there any models better than others? Or ones i should stay away from.

Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:59 pm 


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Quote:
Or ones i should stay away from.

some of the older ones use DB9 instead of HD15 inputs. Avoid those. Most are OK and all will do what you need them to do.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:50 pm 



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 46
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Or ones i should stay away from.

some of the older ones use DB9 instead of HD15 inputs. Avoid those. Most are OK and all will do what you need them to do.

Thanks so much for the advice! I managed to get it working with component adapter since i had it on hand. Having a hard time getting the Zoom to work correctly on the Xrgb mini. Can't seem to fill the screen, although i think i got close. It doesn't look too bad, had to adjust the saturation on the mini.

Do you think VGA is going to yield better results? And just because i like learning, what about VGA makes it a better option?

Thanks again, i really appreciate it


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:27 am 



Joined: 27 Nov 2018
Posts: 1
I've owned a Framemeister for a year and it's always worked fine. Today however, I can't my TV to detect it no matter what I do, even when I only have the framemeister connected the TV with no console turned on, I still don't get any signal, not even the blue menu.

I've tried downgrading the firmware. I've tried upgrading it, I've tried to use different cables and. I've used the remote control to switch beteween DVI ahd HDMI and still nothing.

On an additional note. IT seems the "Power" button isn't responding either. I can only turn off the console by disconnecting it from the AC adapter, this never happened before either.

Can anyone help?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:51 am 


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Location: Germany
What output resolution do you use from the FM? 480?

In this case you don't want to use any of the zoom options. For 480i input you actually want to the the x1 preset. And you should try to eliminate any remaining underscan using the picture sizing controls on your CRT instead.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:30 pm 



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 46
Fudoh wrote:
What output resolution do you use from the FM? 480?

In this case you don't want to use any of the zoom options. For 480i input you actually want to the the x1 preset. And you should try to eliminate any remaining underscan using the picture sizing controls on your CRT instead.


480p on the FM. Okay so no Zoom options, i will turn them off. For some reason when i did that the image was super zoomed in and the screen was cut off. I must have had a setting wrong or something.

I am working on getting an extron now trying the VGA option to see if it looks any better. I am hoping it is.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:57 pm 



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 46
Fudoh wrote:
What output resolution do you use from the FM? 480?

In this case you don't want to use any of the zoom options. For 480i input you actually want to the the x1 preset. And you should try to eliminate any remaining underscan using the picture sizing controls on your CRT instead.


I forgot to ask as well. I know for 480i the FM is generally regarded as being better than the OSSC. Because of the method the OSSC uses.

Does this make a difference when using it on a CRT though and not an LED? As in would the OSSC be a better option on a CRT for this specific scenario? I know you said the FM has a soft 480p output.

Thanks for all the advice, i appreciate your time getting back to me


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:14 pm 


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Location: Germany
Quote:
Does this make a difference when using it on a CRT though and not an LED? As in would the OSSC be a better option on a CRT for this specific scenario?

no, the Bob interlacing on the OSSC would give you a similar look to the orignal interlaced signal - so exactly what you DON'T want. Good deinterlacing on a 31khz CRT is a feast for your eyes.

Quote:
I know you said the FM has a soft 480p output.

slightly, but that's mainly from comparing 240p sources on 480p to 720p output.

Quote:
I am working on getting an extron now trying the VGA option to see if it looks any better. I am hoping it is.

why is that ? Doesn't the component solution you're using now look great already ?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:16 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1211
magus90 wrote:
I forgot to ask as well. I know for 480i the FM is generally regarded as being better than the OSSC. Because of the method the OSSC uses.

Does this make a difference when using it on a CRT though and not an LED? As in would the OSSC be a better option on a CRT for this specific scenario? I know you said the FM has a soft 480p output.

There's a tradeoff in that the OSSC is effectively lag-free, while the FM needs, what, about a frame's worth of time to perform deinterlacing?

If you're trying to make 480p from 480i, then the Framemeister is probably the better option, but do keep in mind that the additional lag might cause issues with light guns. (Or maybe not, if you're still feeding it a 15kHz sync signal. That's what the Xbox does to support light guns on House of the Dead 3 running at 480p.)

I haven't seen it in person, but I would expect the OSSC's bob deinterlacing to look worse than regular interlaced content on a CRT, and, if the FM does have soft 480p output, I doubt you're going to notice it on a CRT.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:25 pm 



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 46
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Does this make a difference when using it on a CRT though and not an LED? As in would the OSSC be a better option on a CRT for this specific scenario?

no, the Bob interlacing on the OSSC would give you a similar look to the orignal interlaced signal - so exactly what you DON'T want. Good deinterlacing on a 31khz CRT is a feast for your eyes.

Quote:
I know you said the FM has a soft 480p output.

slightly, but that's mainly from comparing 240p sources on 480p to 720p output.

Quote:
I am working on getting an extron now trying the VGA option to see if it looks any better. I am hoping it is.

why is that ? Doesn't the component solution you're using now look great already ?


Thank you that makes sense.

The image looks pretty solid for sure. But since i have gone so far to chase the best i can get with PVM's, RGB, etc. I just figured if the VGA solution was better it may be worth going that route since the price is about the same for the adapters. Might be such a small improvement though, it isn't worth my time.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:44 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Germany
Since yesterday I am the proud owner of a gamecube HDMI apdapter. It looks really nice when plugged in directly to the Tv but I want to use my Framemeister to improve the picture even more. What settings would you recommend for the HDMI adapter of the gamecube?

The 480p component settings or some different settings?

Not sure if it is a good idea to use the 480p settings. I am using a pal gamecube after all und we do not have progressive scan games for the gamecube in Europe...

So maybe just going for the standard recommended 480 i settings?

What do you guys think? would be glad hearing some opinions.

Thanks .


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:53 pm 


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If you are using the 480i, you can set the HDMI adapter to 480i passthrough and let the FM do the deinterlacing (with an interlaced profile).

Running homebrew on the Gamecube is quite easy with the SD Media Launcher, in particular you can run Swiss which will allow you to force many games to 480p, even PAL discs. When running 480p, chances are the results will be better going straight to your TV rather than using the FM (could set the FM to passthrough in this case to avoid cable swapping).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:15 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
iceman_0 wrote:
Since yesterday I am the proud owner of a gamecube HDMI apdapter. It looks really nice when plugged in directly to the Tv but I want to use my Framemeister to improve the picture even more. What settings would you recommend for the HDMI adapter of the gamecube?

The 480p component settings or some different settings?

Not sure if it is a good idea to use the 480p settings. I am using a pal gamecube after all und we do not have progressive scan games for the gamecube in Europe...

So maybe just going for the standard recommended 480 i settings?

What do you guys think? would be glad hearing some opinions.

Thanks .



Good question but you might be disappointed with the results. I already tried out to hook my internal HDM modded NTSC gamecube with Framemeister and the results where not very good. The image quality was much better with the direct connection to the TV. Tried out many settings, and also deactivated the line double in Gamecube with the same results. Never used the Framemeister again with the HDMI Gamecube.

I just play with direct HDMI connection. If I want to enjoy upscaled Gamecube Games I use my Pal Gamecube with RGB Scart.

But take everything I said with a grain oft salt.

Maybe I was just too stupid to find out the right settings. Or maybe my TV is the culprit. It worth trying out for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Germany
Kez wrote:
If you are using the 480i, you can set the HDMI adapter to 480i passthrough and let the FM do the deinterlacing (with an interlaced profile).

Running homebrew on the Gamecube is quite easy with the SD Media Launcher, in particular you can run Swiss which will allow you to force many games to 480p, even PAL discs. When running 480p, chances are the results will be better going straight to your TV rather than using the FM (could set the FM to passthrough in this case to avoid cable swapping).


Thats a good advice. Using homebrew sounds promising. I will try to get the Swiss mode running would be really neat to force the pal games to 480p.

Revolver Ocelot Maybe you are expecting too much??? I tried some different Settings and it looked ok. Admittedly not much bette than the direct Hook up via HDMI on the TV but cannot complain about the result either.I will stick to the direct Connection though till I got the swiss mode. Maybe upscaled 480p is a game changer and I wanna Switch to the FM then.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:07 am 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
Maybe you are right and I am expecting to much iceman or as I have already suspected my TV could be the culprit as well. Maybe there is something wrong when the 1080p Signal is upscaled to 4K.

What TV are you using iceman? Already a 4k Modell or still a 1080p model? If it is a 1080p Modell I would not be suprised if it Looks better. Have not researched much about the matter how well the Framemeister workes with 4K Screens. Maybe thats the Problem.

I am bit surprised to be honest. With the direct Connection the gamecube games Looks good, so it seems that the TVs internal scaler is better than the Framemeister and that's impossible.

How can a Special scaler for games makes a worse Image than a generic scaler build in a TV??


Are there any framemeister user here that saw a downgrade of the Image Quality after changing from a 1080p TV to 4K TV?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:46 am 


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Posts: 463
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
so it seems that the TVs internal scaler is better than the Framemeister and that's impossible.

Of course it is not impossible.

Quote:
How can a Special scaler for games makes a worse Image than a generic scaler build in a TV??

The main game-specific features of the Framemeister are the scanline overlay and proper handling of analog 240p sources, neither of which you use in you configuration. Also, the scaler chip in the Framemeister is approximately from 2010 or 2011, while I would guess that the chip in your TV is at least five years newer because you mentioned 4K.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:51 am 


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And not to forget that the FM is particularly weak with 480p sources.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:01 am 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
@Useen The TV is from 2017. It is a .40 panasonic ex 604. So the Chips are rather new for sure. But aiming for something bigger in the next few month. Will either get one of the Samsung qled or the lg Oled B7. Maybe the newer Chips of the TV are better than expected. I though it always the case that the internal scaler of the TVS are horrible for Retro gaming.

But maybe this is just true for 240p or 480i and sources and the modern TV can handle 480p better than expected.

@fudoh Of Course I have already read that the FM is not great with 480p sources but I did not expect it is that bad. Never mind next year, I get the OSSC anyway along the new TV. as avid User of 480p consoles Gamecube und Dreamcast I need something better than the FM for 480p.

Thats the best way and the FM still has lots of use for my 240p/480i Systems.

Would you guys agree with my plan or not?

For 480p the OSSC is the best device at the market at the Moment right?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 am 


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For 480p the OSSC is the best device at the market at the Moment right?

it can be too sharp for some people due to the strict pixel doubling on the vertical. And your TV needs to be compatible with the 960p output from the OSSC. An Extron DSC 301 is a nice choice to upscale analoge and digital 480p.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:16 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
For 480p the OSSC is the best device at the market at the Moment right?

it can be too sharp for some people due to the strict pixel doubling on the vertical. And your TV needs to be compatible with the 960p output from the OSSC. An Extron DSC 301 is a nice choice to upscale analoge and digital 480p.


The compatibility is a problem. Thats right. Not sure how well my current Panasonic would do in that matter. Did not find any information about it. Neither postiv nor negativ information. But as I am about to get a new TV anyway I can chose a TV that is known for working well with the OSSC.

But the Extron DSC 301 looks interesting as well. Perfect suited for my Dreamcast and Gamecube Games. If I can get it at a good price I will get one.


Last edited by Revolver Ocelot on Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:39 pm 


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If I can get it at a good price I will get one.

they're usually around $150 on ebay.com, so if you can pick one up for less under 200 EUR (shipping and tax included) that's reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:57 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
If I can get it at a good price I will get one.

they're usually around $150 on ebay.com, so if you can pick one up for less under 200 EUR (shipping and tax included) that's reasonable.



ok thanks for the info. That's a resonable price indeed. And worth the money too. It seems to be a good scaler. Did some research now.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:21 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Germany
That's strange Ocelot that our perception is that different. I am using a 4k TV btw the Sony 43 8305. But it seems I was lucky. I incipiently picked up TV that is apparently known for good scaling of not so high quality content.

At least according to this review

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-kd-43x8305c


I tested some more settings again now, and although I still think it does not look much better, than the direct input but I start to like 1080p image. 720p looks even a bit better. Cannot wait to get swiss mod to force the games to 480p.

Also thinking about testing the rgb scart output of the FM as soon as I got my pre ordered cable. I bought the cable initially for my future Sony Trinitron CRT but now I became curious about the gamecube and the Framemeister's capabilities.


ps: Good luck ocelot. Hope that the extron scaler will help you to get best out of your Gamecube.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:40 am 



Joined: 12 Dec 2018
Posts: 1
Hi guys!! New XRGB-Mini owner here (I've been saving up for one all year!) Couple of quick questions, if anyone can help me out I'd be hugely thankful!

1) I'm in the UK with PAL machines mostly - the main reason I want one is for the Sega Saturn. I've heard that PAL machines are potentially dangerous to the XRGB Mini depending on which Scart cable you have? What's the best possible cable I can get for my PAL Saturn to work with my XRGB Mini (I bought the Europe-friendly package from Solaris Japan so it has a EuroScart adapter in the box I believe)

2) I'm grabbing a NTSC RGB-modded N64 to play with the XRGB too - do I need a special Scart cable for that? I've heard that you need something that cleans the signal? Apologies for my ignorance, I'm very new to this and don't want to damage my incredibly expensive new toy :P

To be honest reading through the many sources online about the XRGB Mini and the various set ups has me terrified, especially as a PAL user which seems constantly problematic, so if any kind soul out there has the time to enlighten me I'd be so grateful.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:14 am 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Austria
Thanks iceman. I will Report when my extron arrives at my place how I like it.



But now I have got a new question. Are the Retro bit S-Video cables for Saturn trash and are not working with the FM or is there something else. I lost my RGB scart cable for my ntsc Saturn and I am on it to get a new one. As a stop game meassure I borrowed the Retro bit S Video cables from a friend to Play with my Saturn. I got a Picture but without any Colors. I also tried to Change some Settings but nothing changend. The S- Video plug of the Saturn is no the Problem. I also tested the S-Video cable of my n64 and it worked. And with Composite the Saturn is also working. So not sure if the cable itself is the Problem. Could it be that just the S-Video plug of the Saturn cable is broken???


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:55 am 


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joeoconnell wrote:
I've heard that PAL machines are potentially dangerous to the XRGB Mini depending on which Scart cable you have? What's the best possible cable I can get for my PAL Saturn to work with my XRGB Mini

A sync on luma cable will be fine for PAL Saturn.

joeoconnell wrote:
I'm grabbing a NTSC RGB-modded N64 to play with the XRGB too - do I need a special Scart cable for that? I've heard that you need something that cleans the signal?

If the mod comes with a SCART cable, that should suffice. If you're getting it from a modder, ask them to suggest or provide an appropriate cable. Normally you can use a SNES cable for N64RGB mod, but it all depends how the mod is hooked up.

You don't need anything that cleans the signal for the Framemeister. Sometimes you will see CSYNC cables listed that use a "sync cleaner" or "sync stripper" circuit. This is not necessary and is a waste of money, it is more likely to cause problems than solve them. Only get csync cables for systems that output it natively, otherwise sync on luma will be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:43 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2013
Posts: 34
I got a quick question. I recently acquired an XRGB-Mini Framemeister and I noticed that when I power on my SNES, it takes roughly 7 or so seconds for the Mini to display the image from the console.

This sucks, as many SNES games have really cool intro's..

Is there a way to fix this issue in the settings?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:29 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 80
If I connect a PAL gamecube using official D Terminal gamecube cables to the framemeister can it handle a forced 360p signal?

Hoping for results in the realm of this (360p rgb scart + ossc: https://youtu.be/xS4OZwHxDBU


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:38 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 26
SNES_is_the_Best wrote:
I got a quick question. I recently acquired an XRGB-Mini Framemeister and I noticed that when I power on my SNES, it takes roughly 7 or so seconds for the Mini to display the image from the console.

This sucks, as many SNES games have really cool intro's..

Is there a way to fix this issue in the settings?

Nope. It's one of the big weaknesses of the FM. Usually hitting reset will allow you to see the full intro.

strayan wrote:
If I connect a PAL gamecube using official D Terminal gamecube cables to the framemeister can it handle a forced 360p signal?

Hoping for results in the realm of this (360p rgb scart + ossc: https://youtu.be/xS4OZwHxDBU

I haven't successfully gotten 360p to work, but whether that's because it doesn't support 360p at all or because I'm doing something wrong, I can't say. GBI's settings are not very intuitive or well documented. That said, you can achieve similar results using the zoom settings, so 360p isn't particularly useful for the FM anyway.


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