GD: DOJ system and strat

[schnoo]

is there a working link for the hitboxes on these ships?

thanks!

[laurie47]

is there a working link for the hitboxes on these ships?

thanks!

First page of the thread. First post.

[Sasupoika]

Any tips getting two last bees with chain up in stage 2? I cannot get them quite often, and when I get them I can get around 5 million boost in my score. I usually have to use hypers to get them.

[ncp]

Without hypers your best bet is to hit the right one as it comes onto the screen, leave as much popcorn on the stage as you can without dropping chain. Kill the group of helicopters that come in on the left and dash up and hit the first bee and collect it, keep lasering the bomb carrier (which should be right between the bees) as you move right, and collect the second bee which you already hit. This is how I do it and I'm pretty sure they do it the same way in most of the superplays.

[jpj]

from the HS thread:

That section after 1up cannon with parallel platforms, any tip for this section?
This part seems very randon, while I can know where the ships enemies will come can't do the same with the parallel platforms.

[third_strike]

Why don't you record your scoring runs ?

Men I try I really try, but I am very inconsistent. I fail like 99% of time and this can happen in each single place of game. Is impossible try record a inp in this conditions. Later even yesterday I am losing one life in each boss even the first (I even gave up of restart). My performance is like great fail, huge fail, stupid fail, ugly fail, soft fail (this is when I improve my score).

You mean you don't usually restart MAME to play another credit, and wouldn't like to have to ?
When I played DoDonPachi, I had to restart MAME and even wait through the "full extent of the jam" text for 30 seconds every try, and I did like 500 tries before I reached my last score, but it was ok. Now in this MAME you can use F10 even while recording so it's very fast to restart. It'd be nice to see your replays and it's also important to have solid proof for the first scores, whoever the player is, I think.

Let me put it better, I am restarting too much because I am doing much mistakes in first stage + I don't play in pc monitor, I play in a TV far from PC. To use the mouse I need get up and this done frequently is annoying. When/if I get any consistency will be easy save replays. I guess great scores need be proved I a total lack of respect oblige the peoples unreservedly to believe in you. If I was good like any players in this forum which never do mistakes I would do lot of inps, but unfortunately I play because I like don't because I can. Is hard to me prove my scores using INP but I can prove I can do it. Get sure I will prove I can do each score posted.

I am very inconsistent.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8M5TWOVG
A Inp with 5 runs the 2nd is a very cheap 540 mil score the rest is fail
For now my ips don't worth watch.

Memo to everyone, please stop doing reduced text size to be funny because it isn't and I hate having to click quote to read your posts, TIA =/

That was to hide the off topic.

[Aliquantic]

Let me put it better, I am restarting too much because I am doing much mistakes in first stage + I don't play in pc monitor, I play in a TV far from PC. To use the mouse I need get up and this done frequently is annoying.

If you "hard reboot" MAME (Shift-F3 by default, not F3 alone), it will automatically restart your input record too, and only keep the last one... and you can assign that function to a controller button if you don't play with a keyboard either. Which is VERY convenient, as I don't believe there's anybody who isn't inconsistent!

[third_strike]

If you "hard reboot" MAME (Shift-F3 by default, not F3 alone), it will automatically restart your input record too, and only keep the last one... and you can assign that function to a controller button if you don't play with a keyboard either. Which is VERY convenient, as I don't believe there's anybody who isn't inconsistent!

Pressing shift+F3 will restart a recording as well as the game, I hope this makes restart recordings easier for you, third_strike. I'd love to watch your runs. I tried with an ESPGALUDA replay you put up, but it seemed to be broken, because I don't imagine you dying on the first boss+the scoring wasn't very good.

Sorry for the off topic, jpj.

Thanks for tips I feel myself like a noob now.
I did a run today a reached 2-4 for 2nd time.
Score was around 448mil watch if you have nothing better to do.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YO3T8JJ3
Use the hyper in 2-1 to pick the last bee fucked my 2-2 progression because I need 4 hypers in 2-2 to destroy that huge tanks).
First time I clear the first loop with too much lives in stock.

[Aliquantic]

Does anyone have a good strategy for the 2-4 cannon that doesn't involve hypers or bombs? I can reliably get the extend if I have some resources there, but otherwise it's far too risky... and I need my resources for the platforms since it's the hardest part of the game for me

I'd like to know how the second midboss on 2-5 works exactly too, since it's either a joke (most of the time) or it throws patterns that are thicker than I'd like, but it may have more to do with my dislike of slow, tight dodges than anything else really...

The final on a keyboard murders me still, though, but it's so much smoother on a pad or a stick for some reason... or I'm out of practice

[PROMETHEUS]

Are you going for 2-ALL ? :O

Don't know answers to your questions, I have not studied second loop at all.

[Aliquantic]

I'm not going for the 2-ALL since I obviously don't have the skills to be consistent enough, even if I can do well enough fairly reliably in training... the 2-ALL doesn't sound as insane as it did half a year ago, though, and the WL lives trick might help with making consistency less necessary I'm only really playing DOJBL now, though, and I don't have the patience for chaining, so there's nothing other than push beyond 2-5 on a full credit and into Hibachi!

I also need to check if Shmupmame 2.2 is indeed accurate (I don't have the port anymore), since it feels surprisingly tame even deep into the loop... but I can freely use my bombs for rank lowering, so that might be why, even if it still feels very odd! (Ketsui's loop murders me very appropriately still, so no, I'm not exactly skilled)

[ncp]

wooo this thread again

I wish CLA was still around to edit the OP... lot of misinformation.

BTW using shot on popcorns increases your hyper bar way faster than lasering them. Noticed nobody even mentioned that in this thread, pretty damn important to know if you're plotting hyper usage lol.

[Siren2011]

BTW using shot on popcorns increases your hyper bar way faster than lasering them. Noticed nobody even mentioned that in this thread, pretty damn important to know if you're plotting hyper usage lol.

Good to know, man! I had no idea it made a difference.

I wish CLA was still around to edit the OP... lot of misinformation.

I'm sure the mods wouldn't mind fixing that. If you elaborate on which parts were misinforming, then BulletMagnet or someone could probably edit them (You guys have that power, right?).

[ncp]

Rank section is wrong in the OP, there are 2 "rank" factors, one being standard survival-based rank and the other being hyper count. You can play with this in the PS2 practice to get a better understanding of each's effects. There's a bit of discussion in the thread.

Chain point calculation section is wrong, detailed by Plasmo on page 4.

Would just be nice if you didn't have to go through 14 pages to find the info. BL/WL differences would be a good addition also.

[nZero]

The mods -can- edit posts, but with all of the new information available since this thread was started (especially post-emulation) it would be seriously great if someone would step up and write a proper ST for DOJ and DOJBL.

[ave]

I've got some problems holding my chain right after the 1st midboss in Stage 5. At this point I'm usually hypering. When the midboss dies, the chain breaks most of the time (green counter). I can hold my chain almost until the end of the stage, so this is very frustrating because it feels so random. Is there a certain spot where my laser should be when he dies (like, the center of the screen) or am I supposed to be very close to him at the end?

[PROMETHEUS]

There are just some spots and timings that work, basically you need to make sure that there is a popcorn enemy to be hit by your laser right after the midboss dies, and even though they come regularly and in good numbers you can still often end up in a timing+position window where you aren't hitting anything right after its death, if you do it randomly.

To make it work right every time you should get those points set and make sure they're always checked :
1- the spot that you are on when it starts coming at you to shoot its lasers. They determine what exact trajectory the midboss will be moving along next.
2- the damage rate that you are applying to the midboss from the second you are able to damage it. That means A) how much hyper laser damage versus non-hyper laser damage you are applying to it over the duration of the midboss fight B) how much time you spend applying laser + aura instead of only laser over the duration of the midboss fight. (shouldn't be a reason to use shot but if you're using shot for more speed sometimes, make sure it's always approx the same amount of the time spent using shot instead of laser (if you're in hyper a short interruption of laser can still keep your chain alive provided you're close enough to midboss and don't wait to trigger laser again)).

If those 2 points are set, then the boss should always die at the same second, and at the same spot, every time you perform this fight. Which means if you have tested it you know at that spot and that second there will or will not be an enemy for you to hit right after midboss death. So just find any setting where there is one.

If you feel the HFD way feels doable for you, just do it like he does, his setting is (check video too) :
1-Sitting at the bottom line on the right side of the screen (not all the way to the right, anything between 51 to 70% seems to work, depends a bit on boss first phase behaviour and your dodges) when the boss starts coming at you for a Laser Party.
2-For damage :
A) already in hyper mode at beginning of fight and enough hyper to last all midboss fight and uninterrupted laser.
B) No aura damage until midboss is set into position in front of you and start lasering, at which point it will start moving to the left and HFD now applies aura + laser by pointblanking him until the midboss reaches the left edge of screen.

This results in the midboss being destroyed around when it stops for a second at the left edge. If performed right you will then hit some enemy right after midboss dies.

HFD's way isn't hard timing-wise (its not a very strict timing at all). However it's possible that some other ways are easier to perform survival-wise (his way requires some rather accurate trajectory squeezed between its right-laser on your right and bullets on your left).

I suggest trying his way (most optimized scoring), and if it feels too hard for you try making up your own settings that make it easier. Just make sure you're always doing it precisely a way you know will work. If boss dies at different time or position than you tested, you can't be sure your chain will be held.

HFD-way personnally took me probably a few dozens tries to get down (I was dying a little too often at first), but now I can do it no problem without dying or losing chain at least 90% of the time (rarely might die but never lose chain).

[ncp]

I hold a hyper and count off 6 salvos of blue shots on the first pattern, then hyper and charge the boss so he's not at the bottom of the screen for the "laser party" (lol) and every time I end up keeping the chain every time. I'm not sure if this is because I just tend to end up at a favorable spot, or if it's because the boss dies slightly slower due to not point blanking during lasers and not having a hyper for the first couple seconds. Either way this method is really easy and safe, though since the boss dies a little slower you might miss a few hits from popcorns in the section after, I don't think it would be a noticeably big hit to your score. Couldn't tell you from personal experience since I don't chain the rest of the stage lol.

[ave]

Thanks a lot guys!
It's been one day of practicing stage 5 for me and it seems that I finally figured out a safe route for defeating the 1st midboss. I use a slightly altered HDF-method, entering the fight with an immediately beforehand initiated hyper and staying as close as possible to the boss during the entire battle. This way it will die when the bee has only reached the bottom third of the screen and it was rarely the case that my chain broke after the destruction, only once in 10 times or so.

I also chained the entire 5th stage for the first time (including the last x*2 bee) with a 2800+ combo. It wasn't part of a run though, so despite the 600mil I have had I still haven't officially beaten my record of 240m

[Aliquantic]

Does anyone know for sure what's the deal with bonus extends in DOJBL's loop? I could have sworn it worked like in WL if you entered the loop with no lives, but recent testing seems to indicate otherwise. I did get an extend after 2-1 but nothing on 2-2, whether I die on the stage or not.

I'm going to assume I was still playing WL when I'd got an extend on 2-2 then, since I hadn't tried to trigger the bonus lives on BL until yesterday.

[PROMETHEUS]

You do not lose your lives at the end of the loop in BL, and you do not get extends at the end of a stage in 2nd loop. Just an extend at 2-4 cannon. Unless you get your score-based extend(s) during second loop.

[Aliquantic]

I definitely did get an extend in BL today when I entered the loop with no lives after 2-1 (having suicided in the vain hope of getting all the WL extends) but nothing past that I'm not sure why only on 2-1, or why it's there in the first place, or even if it's only occasional/there's another condition to get it, but it exists.

[ave]

Are you sure you're playing on default extend settings? You get one for 20 and for 50 million + 2x in stage 4, that's 4 extends in total + the two you have at the beginning.

[Aliquantic]

Yes, I'm obviously on default settings (Lagless 2.2), and I know a few other people have had that extend after 2-1 when they had no lives in stock on entering the loop. Try it if you're curious, though it's pretty useless since you shouldn't be clearing the first loop with no lives in stock in the first place

[Aliquantic]

If anyone hates the popcorn spam before the first 2-5 midboss as much as I do, keeping the last tank on the right alive will result in a MUCH more manageable amount of spawns, making surviving and chaining a lot easier (at the cost of some hits obviously). Granted the spam isn't that bad, but I could never get consistent at it

[ncp]

I believe you get a life at the end of a no-miss stage if you have below a certain number of lives. Might only be when you're at 0 stock, actually, but you definitely get one.

[ave]

I never get one if I clear 2-1 with 4 lives in stock, so it must be below that? Unless somebody is quicker, I will check it out sometime with savestates and post the results

[ncp]

Go for it. Save state before you finish the 1-5 boss though because you have to no-miss the stage to get the extra life I'm pretty sure.

edit: actually I had a short exchange with jpj somewhere on this forum about this where I thought you didn't get any lives but was wrong. (edit again: actually it was CRI http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=120)

[malik11]

I believe you get a life at the end of a no-miss stage if you have below a certain number of lives. Might only be when you're at 0 stock, actually, but you definitely get one.

I believe I have experienced the aforementioned many times without fail, so I second this testimony. That is, you must have zero stock.

[Aliquantic]

Thanks for the definite answer It hadn't occurred to me that the 0 extend condition would be checked for every stage, not just on entering the loop like in WL.