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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:39 am 


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thanks Icarus, and for your Shippu Mahou explanation as well. So the L1 tanks have nothing to do with it beyond getting bomb icons...in that case I could practice this in score attack mode, no? Savestates for Garegga don't seem to work so well. But then you don't seem to be able to use Golden Bat :/


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:48 am 


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If you want to use the other types of ships in Score Attack (including the Bat) then do this:

Code:
  At the score attack screen (hold buttons before pressing Start):
  Y + Start - B Type
  Z + Start - C Type
  X + Y + Z + Start - ABC Type


Savestates would probably work better as you'd have the correct amount of Weapons to practice the flamingo attack with. It's up to you though, as either can help you get the correct timing and placement down.

EDIT: You can access ABC type ships in regular play by timing out the select screen. As for Garegga states in MAME (and with other Raizing shmups on the same hardware) you have to wait until the ROM check has passed before loading up the state, otherwise the game will not function properly (best way to get a low rank start for Batrider, BTW ^_-)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:53 pm 


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Would someone be willing to watch a MAME .inp of me playing and tell me what I'm doing wrong? Still have trouble getting over 2 million points total on the birds...and that means you can't extend to do the boss properly


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:14 am 


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Go for it. Just pop up the .inp and associated MAME version, and I'll take a look at it ^_^

EDIT: If you are using EK-MAME+, you can create an AVI from an input file.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:50 am 


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Rastan78 wrote:
I was watching closely the Miyamoto replay from the Insanity DVD and I think I can safely say that they are using a six button setup with two different autofire rates for the A button. From the very start of the credit the player raises the shot frequency with what from my best guess is a 15hz autofire rate.


Actually, I was wrong about this. Using a 15 shots/second autofire will pump the shot factor up to level 3 out of a possilble max of 5 levels. Starting out with +1 or +2 is ideal. This is better acheived by using the manual double tap method. Surprisingly, you can get really consistent on getting a specific shot rate with practice.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:02 am 


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Yeah, before I started to use Mania control mode I used to double-tap toachieve the firing rate. It takes a bit of practice to get it right, and sometimes you end up with a really awful firing speed, but t's beter than nothing ^_^
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:42 am 


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Okay, Neon, a little feedback. That version of MAME you pointed me to turned out to be a hacked version of EK-MAME v.90, so I used it to make an AVI of your flamingo attack for easier viewing ^_^:

  • Firstly, while you're not doing anything fundamentally wrong, you do seem to leave it a little late to attack the castle keep the first time. While the timing varies depending on your selected ship, for the Wild Snail, you want to hit the keep with Weapon as soon as it scrolls onto the screen.

    By attacking the keep quickly, you can ensure that your first full Weapon will have expended by the time the top edge of the forest appears, which makes it easier to use your second Weapon on a large, tightly packed cluster of birds.

    With the Wild Snail, the longer you delay the initial Weapon attack, the less points you get in total.
  • While you are using the second Weapon, pay close attention to the flamingoes themselves, and more importantly, where and when they bunch up into groups. While there definitely is an element of randomness in the flight of the flamingoes, in all of my Garegga plays I have noticed that they tend to appear in about three waves. In each of these waves, the flamingoes will appear in a big cluster, and move quickly to the top of the screen.

    Watching out for these clusters and attacking them is the key to boosting your score, especially with an indirect Weapon like Wild Snail's Flamethrower. I noticed in that play you missed a couple of really meaty groups, putting a dent in your possible total.
  • There is a small element of chance as well. If you are aiming to attempt the double suicide technique against Mad Ball, then getting over 2mil after the flamingoes isn't necessary. A more realistic target is 1.85mil at the most, as you can easily make up the rest of the score in-stage, and the rest off the boss.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:15 am 


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Cool, thanks. I know some of that was previously stated, sorry to make you repeat yourself (I did pay attention when reading the guide, I just smoked away my memory in highschool).

I just got 2.3M (total) after the birds, which is .4 off the superplay, I'm happy with that for now. I found getting really close to them helped; you should barely be able to see the Weapon graphic. Basically moving from cluster to cluster instead of letting weapon reach across the screen and touch them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:41 am 


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Yeah, that's the Wild Snail strategy in essence. It's quite hard to spot the clusters at times, and a lot of it is random, but you should be able to get at least 2.1mil after the flamingoes with a bit of practice. That should be enough to le you get a good headstart for the rest of the game. ^_^
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:52 pm 



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Hi!

I've started playing Garegga few days ago (mame emulated japanese 1.000.000 extend version), and I'm trying only to go further and further without dying too much, ignoring rank control... but when you say that I coul'd ignore it till stage 5 you mean that I coul'd manage to get to it with maximum power and maximum fire rate at a hi rank difficulty level, or a little rank managing technique it's still required? I also ask if the game can be 1 credited with only the basic rank control tricks, without suiciding or even without controlling the rank at all...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:22 pm 


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Well, Rando once told me that the lowest scoring ALL Clears were in the 5-6mil region, so it is possible to clear the game without heavy use of the suicide tactic. Just very hard to do so ^_-
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:20 pm 


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stratos wrote:
but when you say that I coul'd ignore it till stage 5...

Well, methinks you've got 2 different bits of advice mixed up there...one tip I remember hearing is that, while you might be able to get up to stage 5 or 6 without bothering with rank control, you're unlikely to get much further. Another (somewhat) similar bit that I've heard says that, while it's definitely possible to purposely keep your power down, etc. while in the first 5 levels or so, once you get to level 6 you'd pretty much best forget it, since by then you need bigger guns to survive.

Quote:
I also ask if the game can be 1 credited with only the basic rank control tricks, without suiciding or even without controlling the rank at all...

Many people here more or less theorize that 1-lifing the game is impossible, and I'm bound to agree. Until I see a video of someone doing it, I'll probably stick by that opinion...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:20 pm 



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uhm... probably better if I continue practicing a few time and then start with basic rank controlling methods... however, I'd like to take the chance to say that this game is a MASTODONTIC one; it FORCED me to quit with ESPgaluda because it is too beautiful, too stylish, with marvellous explosions (I mean also the sound of them), complex boss milking, sofisticated industrial atmosphere (great when you dismantle those bat-like, huge, so Raizing style bombarders in stage 3). I think also that even those who don't want to deal with rank control coul'd appreciate the game because of its pure playability, and the difficulty ranking up makes the game even more enjoyable... and yes: I love Garegga needle-type projectiles! I can't wait playing Ibara on my ps2 to see how much Cave loves Garegga... Thanks also for your advices, others woul'd be appreciated too, and I hope also that Icarus, Rando and the other marvellous guys will have soon time to spend writing the tactics for the last stages.

Bye


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:29 pm 


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stratos wrote:
Thanks also for your advices, others woul'd be appreciated too, and I hope also that Icarus, Rando and the other marvellous guys will have soon time to spend writing the tactics for the last stages.


I'm working on it! I'm working on it! It's been on my to-do list for like... forever. Once I manage to dig up enough time free, I'll up and finish the guides for stages 4 and 5, with all those screenshots, replays and stuff.

For now though, stages 4 and 5 strategies are only partially covered by replays, of which are linked in the very first post in this thread.

As usual, if you have a question, feel free to ask. ^_-
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:46 pm 


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stratos wrote:
...however, I'd like to take the chance to say that this game is a MASTODONTIC one...

Now that's gotta be a new word..."possessing a likeness or resemblance to an extinct elephant species," perhaps? ;)

In any event, good luck with the game. :)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:21 pm 



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Lol :) forgive my poor English language ability: I'm Italian and I shoul'd probably spend more time practicing English speach skills rather than shmup survival/scoring ones... However, in Italian the word "mastodontico" means big, but I wanted simply to mean the game is a great one...

Icarus: I didn't want to bother you, take your time, and many many thanks for your great works (also the replays and other interesting stuff on fetheredwings). And thanks to the other shmup collaborating friends too!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:28 pm 


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stratos wrote:
Lol :) forgive my poor English language ability: I'm Italian and I shoul'd probably spend more time practicing English speach skills rather than shmup survival/scoring ones...

Hee hee, don't worry, I just couldn't resist the opportunity. ;) English is a ridiculous language anyways, so I've got quite a bit of respect for anyone who didn't learn it as his native tongue but can still speak it to any extent. :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:39 pm 



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Another advice needed: I'm playing the japanese mame emulated version, I saved state after the rom checks, to reload in order to reset rank... but the rank doesn't seem to reset... even if I reset the rom and (not certain) even if I exit MAME...

Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:45 pm 


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Usually, you have to wait until the ROM check has passed before you load the save state, as the game will not function correctly if you load it too early. If you saved a state straight after load to reset the rank, then it should work correctly and reset the rank (just watch the drop speed of the Medals to judge the rank, the faster the drop speed, the higher the rank).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:29 pm 



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Icarus wrote:
If you saved a state straight after load to reset the rank


You woul'd probably mean: "If you saved a state straight after ROM CHECK". If not so, I've probably misunderstood you. So: I saved after the rom check and the region screen ("this game is for use in NIPPON only...), a second before the Raizing logo appear; so I start to play and, when I lose my last life, I load position instead of scrolling down the continue counter and restart... but it seems that the rank doesn't go down: I say that because the first planes in stage 1 fire many more bulletts; then, in the section with the tanks firing at you from the right, after the big plane, the last upper tank fires a salvo of bullets larger than usual. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:58 pm 


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The last tank in that section you described fires a large salvo of bullets irrespective of rank level. Usually it fires the bullet clump if you take too long to attack it, or you are at a fair distance away.

As for resetting the rank level using states: reloading the save state should in theory reset the rank level. It works for Batrider and Bakraid, at least, and they operate on similar hardware and under similar conditions.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:34 am 


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Icarus wrote:
(just watch the drop speed of the Medals to judge the rank, the faster the drop speed, the higher the rank).

Is that mentioned in the initial rank post here? I recall it mentioning enemy bullets, aggressiveness, etc., but nothing about how fast the medals drop.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:40 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Is that mentioned in the initial rank post here? I recall it mentioning enemy bullets, aggressiveness, etc., but nothing about how fast the medals drop.


Errr, nope, I think I might have omitted it from the very first draft of the ST, as back then I was mainly focused on the effects rank has on enemies and bullets. But yes, rank does marginally affect Medal drop speed as well. Later stages make it very difficult to catch Medals due to the drop speed, as well as the enemy/bullet factor.

It definitely has an effect in Batrider, and Bakraid, and maybe to some extent Brave Blade and Ibara as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:03 am 



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BulletMagnet wrote:
stratos wrote:
...however, I'd like to take the chance to say that this game is a MASTODONTIC one...

Now that's gotta be a new word..."possessing a likeness or resemblance to an extinct elephant species," perhaps? ;)



ahem

mastodontic's definition

:wink:

At any case, Stratos, if you want some help in Italian, please drop me a PM, ok ? :wink:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:37 pm 



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Thanks Randorama! I'll message you if I'll have any other question about Garegga, although Icarus and Bulletmagnet had yet helped me kindly and I appreciated so much also the great work with this strategy guide. However for now I can only 1cc till the third or fourth stage; even DDPDOJ seems easier to me 'cause you need only to memorize the patterns and develop strategies on a FIXED rank, unless you don't hyper standby... other MASTODONTIC ( ^_- ) masterpiece, althouhg of a different genere... sometimes the latest manic productions coul'd be less challenging than some classics, but I think that Garegga is definitively a "transition" game with old school action mixed with some manic situations, like the duel with Madball, that from my point of view is a tipical manic boss in certain behaviours and bullet patterns... However, I need some practice :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:21 pm 


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Randorama wrote:

Holy cow, I was right! :mrgreen: But I honestly had no idea that was an English word...heck, what on Earth am I doing wasting money on college, I oughta just spend more time here, I tend to learn more, heh heh.

stratos wrote:
However, I need some practice :(

Heh heh, fella, trust me, EVERYONE needs some practice with this thing. ;)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:06 am 



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I've found the wrong thing: I don't power up. It's true that powering up increases the rank, but you have not to use your basic power 'till the turrets in stage 6 (the "wall")... you can take one shot up in the first stage (and of course one option for the Nose Lavagghin), then a big shot up in Plateau, another option in the final part of the stage (against bombing aircrafts over the forest) and then take another power up (or two) in the factory. The fact is that the suicide (and the max medal missing strategy in stage 3 and 4) can probably decrease the rank counter at the point that you can collect power ups and use option shots without causing the difficulty to jump... Now I can navigate quite safely until the third stage, I've set up a record of 3.296.090 in stage 4 using the Mackerel; yes, yet I can't go further than before, but I feel more confident with this first section of the game and I'm happy like a little child :) Men, this game it's wonderful and I really love it :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:30 am 


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Heheh, well done ^_^

I've given you enough of the guide to get scoring proficiently. Using the Wild Snail and little to no suicides, you can probably safely make 5mil before the stage4 boss Satanic Surfer. There are plenty of scoring targets which are easy to achieve, so aim for those first (I think I listed them in a post somewhere in the middle of this thread). As you get more proficient with the stages, try to work in more scoring techniques until you can score enough to risk a suicide or two (to attack more scoring targets).

The Training Plan I put up in the very first post of the thread should give you an idea of how to progress. Stick with it, as patience will definitely pay off with this game ^_-
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:22 am 


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Icarus, could you use any help with the rest of the stage and boss guides for the ST? I'm not quite 100% on playing the stages myself but I could send you text for the guide that you could edit/enhance where necessary.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:28 am 


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Can someone tell me offhand what sorts of scores to be aiming for in the first three levels? (If it says something in Icarus' guide, I haven't gotten to it yet.)

It seemed to me that I got around 450,000 on the first level today, but mysteriously all my better runs after that were closer to 330,000.

Also I'm getting to a million only just before the third boss. Should I (as a very average gamer) be aiming to get my first extend well before that?

Thanks!


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