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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:24 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
It's obviously not for me. If they put even 10% of the money they put into art into the simulation aspects, christ would I be living in a world where I didn't feel so misanthropic about humans. (I mean seriously: If the level of realism is the only metric these games are getting better by (and they're getting worse by other metrics, like game length), they're immediately and permanently obsolete and worthless once the next hardware revision comes out. And once they hit the cap of photorealism, they're still going to release a new box every ~6 years anyway.)

The killer app this gen is real-time raytracing. It looks really nice, that's it. $500 plz.

But being aware of stuff like how you could make an ASCii game with millions of janky randomly generated pokemon with the publicly released version of GPT-2.... the AAA franchise market just isn't that ambitious.

I remember when I was a kid and all these directors and designers talked about their ambitions of making their games more like blockbuster movies, and thinking "that's not good...."


Do you mean games are getting too bloated and long? That's generally how I feel. There are still games made that I like but holy fuck did Metal Gear Solid V depress me. They took something that was, love it or hate it (personally I like 1/3 a lot, 2 I don't intend to revisit) at least it's own thing and turned it into...that...

I was actually really happy when they went away from the bloating and Yakuza 6 was much shorter than 5 and 0.

I bet it's $600 and not $500, fwiw.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:35 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
I remember when I was a kid and all these directors and designers talked about their ambitions of making their games more like blockbuster movies, and thinking "that's not good...."


Quoted for truth
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:54 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:22 pm 


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kid aphex wrote:
BryanM wrote:
I remember when I was a kid and all these directors and designers talked about their ambitions of making their games more like blockbuster movies, and thinking "that's not good...."


Quoted for truth


Video games are like, too hard man. Every big game now outside of a few has to be easy open world or a cinematic experience where you hit x a few times.

Hell even From Soft is rumored to be adding difficulty sliders to Elden Ring.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:28 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Do you mean games are getting too bloated and long?


Mainly I meant they have so much of the budget put into the art and marketing (the things that make them money, as opposed to making a good game or something) that they simply can't make as much stuff as they used to. Since about no one wants to blow 60 bucks on a 5 hour long game, they often do stretch them out yeah.

Personally I lean a little toward the "it's ok if a game is too long, you can stop playing whenever you've had enough" philosophy.
__

Anyway, I'ma rant about vidya game stories let me rant about'em.

The foundation of the social side of the human mind is the tribe - a min/maxer that thirsts to find ways to use other people to get ahead, or at least not get exiled and devoured by elephants. If your story isn't interesting with your characters sitting in an empty room together (which is all sitcoms are - an extremely timeworn and effective medium), it doesn't matter much how many laser swords or cool monsters your piece of media has.

Video games are usually designed the exact opposite way - you're a murder hobo wandering around. Most of the characters you meet are disposable ~5 minute long boss fights, that have to have extreme gimmicks to be memorable. Get emotionally attached to a "home"? Forget about it, that joint was used up and thrown in the bin hours ago.

There are a few counter examples in the AAA industry. The first arc of Final Fantasy 7 has you blowing up power plants with your imaginary friends, before you leave the town you grew attached to and enter the mostly unimportant murder hobo section of the game. The new style Persona games put a huge emphasis on its characters.

"Games shouldn't be like movies" has many layers to it.



* The soap opera technique where they have a thing happen, and then pad out the rest of the week by having every character state their opinion on the current drama, is usually pretty dire. However, sometimes I'm thankful they're so thorough. Such as when Luke got wasted and drunk-drove his grandson into spaghetti. Do I want to know what all 34 of your characters have to say about that, show? The answer is yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:02 pm 



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In the real world all these new games are, are continuing the stories of PS4 games.

As I said on a youtuber comments section, nobody talks about graphics anymore. When the PS2 came out thats all anyone talked about. All the buzz reaction is about what titles are coming out on PS5, not what they look like. Which says to me you could easily just make them on Ps4. If you look at the Village RE8, yes there are more trees and leaves and such things, but that doesn't translate into gameplay. Granted the atmosphere is fantastic and thats a seller for me. Graphics on their own, not so much.

Played Point Blank 3 today on PS1. Arcade party game action at its finest.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:27 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Anyone watch the reveal? What do people think?

Of the PS5 itself? I will eventually buy it for its exclusive games, but I don't see any reason to care about the hardware.

Of the games showcased?

Deathloop is Arkane, so I'm definitely in. Despite some worries about what they're going to do to try to make it more successful than Dishonored and/or Prey.

GhostWire: Tokyo is a first person magic game? Could be interesting.

Returnal being Housemarque's first attempt at something more mainstream seems to be a third person shooter, so still probably very gameplay focused. Unless something goes very wrong, I'm probably getting it.

Stray is a game where you play as a cat, that's not a low-budget indie game. So I'm probably getting it just for that.

I have no idea what Pragmata is and I'm assuming Project Athia is a PS6 title.

Also neorichieb1971 is wrong about everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:54 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
Anyone watch the reveal? What do people think?

Of the PS5 itself? I will eventually buy it for its exclusive games, but I don't see any reason to care about the hardware.

Of the games showcased?

Stray is a game where you play as a cat, that's not a low-budget indie game. So I'm probably getting it just for that.


I was actually just talking with a friend about how the hardware hasn't really been interesting to me since probably gen 6.

Stray was the standout to me, not sure if I mentioned it here or not yet but it's hardly surprising from someone who has too many cats but they help me stay sane.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:56 pm 



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ZellSF wrote:
vol.2 wrote:


Also neorichieb1971 is wrong about everything.


Wrong, I played Point Blank 3 for many hours today. Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:03 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:31 pm 



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neorichieb1971 wrote:
I've said many times and I'll say it again. The problem with modern gaming is that everything has to be Earth like and so realistic.

If Miyamoto made Mario today we wouldn't have gotten all those wonderful Mario games of yesteryear. It would be straight to GTA5 pro.

I realize there are quite a few nice surreal games out there, but using IPs such as Spiderman is boring to me. I like Spiderman in the movie theater and I like Kratos in my videogames.

I fear that PS5 will be nothing more than hardware battles of the cock. You can bring another 200 gun games and 50 driving simulators and 25 football/soccer/basketball games. But I won't play them.

Now if Ueda made a game i'd dive in for that.

I really miss Sega mixing things up as well. Their IP's were fantastic and mostly going to waste.

We are in a wasteland of creativity right now. Take me back to Saturn, PS1 and N64 when games were so diverse from within a system library and across system libraries. Where creativity and wonder were round every corner. Now we have all systems with similar joypads, similar capabilities making similar games. Yawn.


My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. We desperately need a company like old Sega. Sega had all sorts of weird, quirky, and unique titles that made them stand out.

Sometimes Sega would just throw a ton of money and projects that had no hope of being profitable (I remember hearing something like every Dreamcast owner would have to buy 2 copies of Shenmue for it to earn its budget back) but thats what made them great.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:55 pm 


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PC Engine, Saturn and Dreamcast were spiritually very similar. I miss those days too, lots of wild stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:30 pm 


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To Far Away Times wrote:
My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. We desperately need a company like old Sega. Sega had all sorts of weird, quirky, and unique titles that made them stand out.

Sometimes Sega would just throw a ton of money and projects that had no hope of being profitable (I remember hearing something like every Dreamcast owner would have to buy 2 copies of Shenmue for it to earn its budget back) but thats what made them great.


I love quirky SEGA games as much as anyone, but I don't think it's great that they set themselves up for failure with games like Shenmue (which purpose btw was to seem as lifelike as possible).

Current gen have plenty of creative artsy fartsy games, you just have to look. Game like Thumper, Bound, Inside, and countless other indie games go beyond the realism aesthetic.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:10 am 


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ACSeraph wrote:
Even if they only gave us PS1 and PS2 I would have understood that the PS3 emulation simply couldn't be done. I mean come on? Why the fuck doesn't the PS4 play PS1 discs when every version of the PS3 did? And then there's a fully functioning emulator for PS2 games on there, trying to resell you another copy of GTA3, but you can't use your actual disc you own? Fuck off Sony.


When they made the disc drive for the PS4, they cheaped out to keep production cost down by not including a CD reading laser, only DVD and Blu-ray, which meant no way to read all of the PS1 discs and a good chunk of PS2 discs. I still don't know why PS1 Classics are not available on the PS4's network. Only some PS2 games had been releases.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:31 am 


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To Far Away Times wrote:
We desperately need a company like old Sega. Sega had all sorts of weird, quirky, and unique titles that made them stand out.


I would absolutely love for Sega to mount a console comeback. If they did something really smart, like make is supremely backwards compatible, it might even stand a chance.

It would also take a lot of clever first-party titles and strategic exclusives. Like if they could get a biohazard title on the caliber of CV for the dreamcast. Ah, but to dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:46 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
When they made the disc drive for the PS4, they cheaped out to keep production cost down by not including a CD reading laser, only DVD and Blu-ray, which meant no way to read all of the PS1 discs and a good chunk of PS2 discs. I still don't know why PS1 Classics are not available on the PS4's network. Only some PS2 games had been releases.


The worst part is that even if you bought the PS2 classic version of something on PS3 they try to make you buy it again on PS4 even though it's literally the exact same thing. I get remasters, but that shit is just predatory. It should have been credited to your account and downloadable on multiple systems (like PS1 classics).
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:19 am 



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It's been over a decade since console games had any particular characteristics that differentiate them from everything else on other consoles and computers in general. This was as exciting as checking the new releases section on Steam on a Monday afternoon.

Same story with the hardware. Nothing worth mentioning on the computer architecture front either. Boring.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:36 am 


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As a cat person, Cat Simulator sorry Stray has me interested in its concept but I'm not sold until I see actual gameplay. The rest? Meh. Resi 8 will be multiplatform and I wonder what else will be too.

There's a tonne of PS4 games I'd like to play but Sony are still being cagey about backwards compatibility. Whilst Series X gets me new games (DOOM Eternal aside, games are creaking on the base xbone) and reduced loading times for my xbone backlog, I need to shell out on a PS4 (which are still somehow full price unless you want the gimped 500 GB model) and PS5 to get the same effect on Sony's side.

I'm not even sure they're doing a good job of preaching to the coverted - whilst Microsoft's design is functional and uninspiring, Sony have adopted the "hipster router from 2008" school of design. Series X blends into the background, whilst you'll wish the PS5 could.

But I'm still waiting for Microsoft to put their foot in their mouth and only ship discs with base xbone assets, requiring epic downloads to get any benefit from their new hardware and declaring Gamepass or bust. Demonstrating they haven't really learned from the xbone DRM disaster and just want their sweet sweet subscription revenue.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:05 pm 


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I feel like it's just too soon. The PS4 has plenty of fuel left in it, heck I still play my PS3...

PS5 seems like too much, no one wants to push the envelope of the current gen anymore, just rush to the next.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:52 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:54 pm 


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To Far Away Times wrote:
My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. We desperately need a company like old Sega. Sega had all sorts of weird, quirky, and unique titles that made them stand out


I miss the days of the Dreamcast and it's off-the-wall first-party titles, but sadly that sort of thing just does not fly in the mainstream anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:06 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
This is an old meme that I guess is never going away. I remember when PS2 games "looked like" PS1 games. :wink:

Ok sure. But for real, does anything in the video demonstrations really look like something the PS4 wouldn't be capable of, comparing to the games already out there? Even if you can point out some shadow details or particle effects that have a bit more fidelty, you can't possibly argue that the effective gap is in any way reminiscent of that between PS1 and PS2.
And looking at games like Ghostwire Tokyo, Deathloop, etc. there's barely a gap from comparable X360-gen AAA titles like Bioshock, Deus Ex 3, etc. But the games still look good.

Like I said, it's really not a problem to me personally. In fact I'm glad that the mainstream is embracing less-than-AAA titles from non-indie studios, that don't necessarily push the hardware to its limit. I'm just questioning the attempt to try marketing a new console generation on graphics improvements alone, when the graphics improvements are barely noticeable.
I don't actually doubt that the PS5 is a lot more powerful than the PS4, but when the PS4 is already as powerful as it is, fully utilizing the increased muscle power to show something more impressive takes a ton of effort, skill and creativity, and of course a massive budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:12 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
This is an old meme that I guess is never going away. I remember when PS2 games "looked like" PS1 games. :wink:

Ok sure. But for real, does anything in the video demonstrations really look like something the PS4 wouldn't be capable of, comparing to the games already out there? Even if you can point out some shadow details or particle effects that have a bit more fidelty, you can't possibly argue that the effective gap is in any way reminiscent of that between PS1 and PS2.
And looking at games like Ghostwire Tokyo, Deathloop, etc. there's barely a gap from comparable X360-gen AAA titles like Bioshock, Deus Ex 3, etc. But the games still look good.

Like I said, it's really not a problem to me personally. In fact I'm glad that the mainstream is embracing less-than-AAA titles from non-indie studios, that don't necessarily push the hardware to its limit. I'm just questioning the attempt to try marketing a new console generation on graphics improvements alone, when the graphics improvements are barely noticeable.
I don't actually doubt that the PS5 is a lot more powerful than the PS4, but when the PS4 is already as powerful as it is, fully utilizing the increased muscle power to show something more impressive takes a ton of effort, skill and creativity, and of course a massive budget.


I'll be the first to admit I don't know shit when it comes to pointing that technical stuff out. People did say that with PS1/2 and it just made me remember that so I had a laugh. I was there Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago.

I'd be more than fine just continuing on with PS4 but we know that isn't going to happen. I'm also not buying a PS5 at launch. Honestly probably not even within 2 years unless an insane exclusive drops. But I see no way that these PS5 games don't end up looking better than even top shelf PS360 titles (the two games listed should be played on PC anyway).

It's not just graphics it is overall performance. I'm taking a wait and see approach. I honestly have no idea on paper but in practice, the PS4 blows the dick off the PS3 and 360. I'll see if I feel similarly after actually playing with a PS5. We really don't know much yet about the system or if their approach will work. I feel it's also important to remember that these basically are just locked PCs entirely now and the PS4 is 7 years old. They already put out a slight upgrade 3 years in and I could see this being the cycle going forward with upgrades every 3-4 years. They just knew they couldn't get away with a completely new console 3 years in.

Someone in the thread in hardware already mentioned it but the masses will bear out if this is a success or not.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 pm 


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The raytracing and the solid state drive will be the biggest practical upgrades. Actual radiosity helps sell versimulitude, SSD makes your proprietary PC load installed shit faster.

It's like we're parents from the 90's, but kind of right. New consoles, until we move to new materials, are mostly about resetting the market. If you have the enthusiasm and money to burn, they're worth it. If you can wait, just wait for the stuff you want to come on PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:51 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
If you have the enthusiasm and money to burn, they're worth it. If you can wait, just wait for the stuff you want to come on PC.


For me it's more about time and convenience at this point. It's ironic, but at this point, it's easier for me to have my newer games all in one place and in one ecosystem. It's actually intimidating to think about learning to get used to a new console interface and figure out a new digital store, etc, etc, etc. Don't have time for it and I'm really feeling the fatigue from so many services and so many logins and changes to those logins. I feel like just logging into crap is comprising a significant portion of my life at this point.

The PC hardware is definitely more expensive, so I don't see it much as a money thing (unless you mean spending extra money on both a fancy PC and all the new consoles and then yes (but do most console owners also buy fancy GPUs?)


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:24 pm 


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I gave up on PC gaming because there was too much good stuff exclusive to consoles and too little good stuff exclusive to PCs. Add to that the frequency at which big titles got a gimped PC version. That was just as you started to get Origin taking up arms against Steam, now you've got Epic as well is a turn off. And of course, the endless stream of odd graphics card bugs and the driver updates to fix it. Nah, wouldn't do it again unless it had 90s calibre exclusives.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:23 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
New consoles, until we move to new materials, are mostly about resetting the market.

There's absolutely no doubt about that, and that's probably the primary thing that rubs me the wrong way, but it's hard to talk about it without coming across like a grumpy old dinosaur. It's absurdly anti-consumer, but the consumers eat it up, and want the new generations to come around sooner rather than later.
Every time a platform has plateaued at a sweet balance where tons of great games are available at very affordable prices, the platform owners push out new hardware giving you a much worse selection at much higher price points due to a less saturated market.


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:04 pm 


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TransatlanticFoe wrote:
too much good stuff exclusive to consoles and too little good stuff exclusive to PCs.


I guess that's the real issue. I just don't care enough to be first in line for console content. Either it comes to PC, or I'm ok playing it whenever I finally get whatever console. I still haven't got a PS4 and I'm 100% ok with it.

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Add to that the frequency at which big titles got a gimped PC version.


I didn't realize this was a thing. What's an example of a PC title that got a crappier version (that wasn't addressed with an eventual update anyway)?


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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:05 pm 


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Austin wrote:
I miss the days of the Dreamcast and it's off-the-wall first-party titles, but sadly that sort of thing just does not fly in the mainstream anymore.

Judging how the Dreamcast turned out I'm not sure it flew back then either. :P

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I didn't realize this was a thing. What's an example of a PC title that got a crappier version (that wasn't addressed with an eventual update anyway)?

Off the top of my head I know Square's been knocked more than once for its PC ports; IIRC Nier Automata in particular had a bunch of stuff that was never fixed. I also recall one of the Batman Arkham games being in a similar situation, and an announcement being openly made that no resources were available to fix it because they were all being poured into upcoming DLC. I'm sure those more into the PC gaming scene (my laptop can only play low-end stuff) could name significantly more.
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 Post subject: Re: Reaction to the PS5?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:10 pm 


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