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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:03 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
^^^He didn't say it was bullshit though, in fact he said there were some good points in there, just that they were sandwiched between things that were very opaque and hard to understand.

*edit* unless you're referring to past discussion of Dark Souls, because that was too complex for little 'ol me and I stopped following most of the discussions in that thread.

In a grand piece of irony, Ed Oscuro doesn't read what the people he's arguing with post (this became clear very quickly in the Dark Souls 2 thread, when I had to repeat myself about a thousand times before he even started doing his form of "arguing" against what I was actually saying... actually, I'm not certain he ever did, since I mostly skimmed his posts in that thread once it became clear that he had nothing to say other than just yelling "INDUCTIVE! INCONSISTENT! NAMES OF PHILOSOPHERS!", but I think he did). It's a lot easier to just throw out the names of philosophers and scream "INDUCTIVE LOGIC! YOU'RE BEING INCONSISTENT!" than it is to actually communicate. As a bonus, when you communicate poorly, obviously it's the other person's fault for not understanding you (never mind that what you wrote was literally nonsense), since you're obviously smart because you know philosophers and formal logic.

If this forum had an ignore list, he'd be on mine for certain.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:38 pm 


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Oh yes, I'm sure that's why you make tons of useless replies. Once you get your teeth in something you shake it and shake it until everybody else gets bored. What do you do then? Declare victory to an empty room? All your accusations about my "big posts" (like, uhh, the very short one I made earlier in the thread) belie the fact that you more than make up for it with volume and repetition.

I didn't want to revisit the DS2 thread, but yes, I noticed you repeating yourself for no apparent reason. I actually have a good mass of extra material, but there simply was no point to going new places when you would just use it to hurl accusations of bad faith back at me, and when you kept circling back to your obsession with having your opinion on The Best Whatever be universally acclaimed as factually based, with absolutely nobody daring to say otherwise else you start shaking them in your teeth. Yeah, your thread was going places when you didn't even get past the topic title before sneaking in the implication that anybody who disagreed about a matter of opinion was somehow factually wrong, an attitude that you carried throughout that thread despite your two fig leaves of "full disclosure" and "breaking the mold." Yeah, I'm sure everybody was so relieved you outlined all the appropriate positions in the first post and never budged from that an inch.

You simply have been steadfast in ignoring that there was only one person who was generous enough to discuss your terrible crank theory seriously, because apparently it rustles your jimmies to whine and bitch about how horrible people are for pointing out multiple flaws with...well, your entire goddamn shtick. I make big posts sometimes but your disproportionate responses are getting as predictable as the pacing of the hours. Back in the land of facts, you didn't understand the comments about the obviously terrible decision of designing a PC game that exhibits strange behavior whenever it doesn't maintain an arbitrary framerate, you didn't understand that nobody would design a routine to be called twice except mysteriously under low-fps circumstances, and you didn't notice the framerate of your favored PC framerate comparison video going all over the fucking place in the "60fps" material you cherry-picked from, and you didn't understand why it is important to have something as close as possible to a side-by-side A:B comparison to limit your freedom of interpretation to suit your obvious prejudices.

No, I think we have had more than enough of that.
__________________________________________

So guys - I know you've all seen this one before:

Two chums walk into a bar - Pied Piper Pretas and Obscura the Brave!

Pretas is drunk and raving before he hits the front counter. After a moment steadying himself he rambles on: "Everyshing you fools like...ick...ish terrible, bad...save yourshelfsh from drinking it...fish...shy...er, mineral water..."
More than a few feet are already tapping impatiently and a loud solild voice from a dark corner booms out: "That's kind of a dick thing to be bringing in here, dude."
Obscura doesn't notice this or the increasing rumblings of discontent. Head is tilted slightly towards the rafters in a Praising The Sun stance, they are rapt in the sublime ecstasies of discontentment and hatred.
"Finally, something everybody enjoys talking about: Why everything is awful!" Eyes scanning the dark seats at the edges of the room, suddenly Obscura rips a frayed gauntlet from their hand and flings it at a random corner.
"I demand satisfaction. You must now restate everything you have said until I find something I feel confident of grinding about for the next two weeks, and also you must make it so I understand. No math please."
"Only if you promise not to use adjectives, and if you realize you don't need to inflate your post count with a volume of worthless replies," replied the somewhat mystified patron.
"What?" Obscura unsheathed a dull spork, face sheathed in rage. "That is completely unacceptable and awful. Why would you torture me so? I was here, minding my own business until you - you! You keep mocking me! Wherever I go, I find myself beset by incomprehensible masses of text!"
"Look, we've seen this joke before. There's no punchline, no development or agreement. If you're having something, the bar is over there."

So, I don't know how this ends. Maybe Pretas and Obscura realize that they're not in Iga's bar and nobody gives a shit. Maybe the bartender says "back or ban." Maybe Obscura will decide to go to places where there are like-minded 15-year olds who argue about their very special opinions, like GameFAQs. Maybe Obscura might realize that a string of adjectives doesn't count as useful criticism. Maybe, maybe...


Last edited by Ed Oscuro on Sun May 17, 2015 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:52 pm 


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Or, maybe, Ed Oscuro will realize that when criticizing a thing, adjectives are necessary in order to describe the object sufficiently to explain why it's better or worse than another thing.

Nah. It's easier to make up "funny" stories about the posters and talk about philosophers than it is to actually discuss videogames, apparently.

(Oh, and you didn't want to revisit the DkS 2 thread, yet you brought it up. Christ, you're a disingenuous fucktard.)


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:03 pm 


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All you have done is throw big heaps of adjectives on the pile, like "terrible" or "awful." That is not helpful. Yes, I wrote a big post. No, I don't care that you were uniquely offended by it, just as I don't care if anybody praised it. I'm more than capable of deciding for myself when not to pursue something and I don't need your help. You did not have to engage in a lengthy call-out because I made a somewhat lengthy post that merely faintly echoed comments other people were making, which harmed you in absolutely no way. Exactly why you have seen fit to shake the hornet's nest again is utterly beyond me.

"That's a long post" is all that could have been said. Common sense, and a mature emotional outlook, should have counseled you that saying even that was entirely self-serving and unnecessary. I see no reason why you did this outside a vendetta, just like I see no reason why people are dredging up unfinished business against Iga. I'm guessing a lack of emotional development is partly to blame, because there is no reason why you had to engineer an excuse to start THE ULTIMATE BATTLE OF FACTS VS OPINIONS again. I'm not interested in doing this again, and you must be awfully boring and idle if you feel like it's a good use of your time.

Once again, I'm not the only person pointing out that you (and Pretas) are being insufferable dicks here.

Now, if you can untwist your panties, let's leave the thread for discussion of the Kickstarter and how great Iga is.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:31 pm 


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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Once again, I'm not the only person pointing out that you (and Pretas) are being insufferable dicks here.

Now, if you can untwist your panties, let's leave the thread for discussion of the Kickstarter and how great Iga is.

I would stay out of this thread but felt that this warranted emphasis. Enough of the personal attacks and stubborn "must convince everybody to agree with me," why must every thread Obscura posts in devolve into this?
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:11 pm 


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Shepardus wrote:
Enough of the personal attacks and stubborn "must convince everybody to agree with me"

Seconded. Please don't make me lock this.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:10 pm 


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>Claims I have too much time on my hands
>Writes posts with three times the wordcount of my posts to rebut them.


@Shepardus: It's always the same cycle. I say something, then some idiot (or idiots, as is more common) decide that they have to loudly decry me, and then after a million posts of people saying I'm retarded or whatever, I end up being completely right. I mean, look at the DFK Ura nonsense. How long was I saying that the commonly stated requirements for entering Ura are entirely wrong before Emuser finally decided to replicate my experiments and realize "oh, he's right, the requirements that we've always assumed are correct are actually wrong"? It's the exact same shit in every thread around here. Exactly how patient do you expect me to be, in the face of this many subhumans flinging their shit around?


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:25 pm 


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Except you are stating opinion as fact and one would have better success arguing with a brick wall than you.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:53 pm 


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Exactly what trap said, in stuff like this where it's a matter of opinion you're never going to reach that endpoint where you "end up being completely right." You can argue until the end of time and nobody's going to change their mind.

And besides, with the DFK Ura stuff people were mainly deriding you for stating that you were utterly incapable of triggering the Ura route consistently. The requirements ended up being more lenient than previously thought, which doesn't exactly support your insistence that you lacked the natural ability to trigger it.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:58 pm 


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Shepardus wrote:
The requirements ended up being more lenient than previously thought, which doesn't exactly support your insistence that you lacked the natural ability to trigger it.

Not entirely true. I don't know if you read through the whole thing, but there's a massive detail that's more strict than previously thought -- the point where you have to have the hyper bar full is both earlier than originally thought and is variable, and as far as I know, no one has yet figured out what causes it to come earlier sometimes than later (no one did in the previous giant thread for it).

EDIT: And, besides, if everything is just opinion, why the hell should anyone care what I think? Why would anyone be bothered by me saying whatever the fuck I want on any issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:20 am 


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^^^ People naturally just don't like it when the things they like are stated as factually bad. I don't mind a difference of taste, but if someone thinks Daimakaimura* is an objectively bad game, it's go time motherfucker.

*just a random example, haven't heard anyone say this

At any rate, at least your opinions are something you're willing to discuss. Unlike Preta's attempts to trace obscure lines of developer and publisher influence while making claims about games he hasn't played and and then leaving the thread when he's asked for hard information or called on outright misinformation (see also: the Darius PS4 thread. Not respecting his posts till he publicly admits that ACEX isn't the same game as PSP Burst).

Anyway, this thread is still better than the 4chan thread I accidentally stumbled into last week. "SOTN was gay before Symphony" -post of the year 2015. Almost as good as the guy who kept spamming macros as the mods frantically tried to delete them.

Ed Oscuro wrote:
let's leave the thread for discussion of the Kickstarter and how great Iga is.


Iga's solid
Inti is good to great
Machiru Yamane is a badass
The kickstarter is kinda shitty with no budget break down or gameplay or anything, but at least they have good ideas (classic mode)
Miriam is a cutie
I wish we had sprites
I hope we can move while attacking on the ground (fuck that bunny hop bullshit)
Rogue Legacy and Eclessia's Training Hall prove that SOTN style controls can work wonderfully with more in depth platforming.
Designers being able to CTRL C - CTRL V assets in classic mode could result in a better designed game, if not aesthetically superior.

Discuss.

*edit, oh also*

Ed Oscuro wrote:
"back or ban."

I would be okay with this forum policy.
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Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Mon May 18, 2015 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:27 am 


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Obscura wrote:
EDIT: And, besides, if everything is just opinion, why the hell should anyone care what I think? Why would anyone be bothered by me saying whatever the fuck I want on any issue?

You don't see that would apply to you just as much as anybody else? Why don't you turn this belief into a "live and let live" situation? There is a catch, though; obviously nobody is speaking only into a void here and you have to consider the social element to see what might be considered constructive, and what is disruptive and looks like trolling.

Nobody has said "everything is just a matter of opinion." People did say "opinions aren't universally right for everyone in the way facts are." People are saying that there's a time and place for sharing certain opinions (and even facts, as well), and this thread isn't that place.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:47 am 


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I don't read Ed's posts unless we're engaged in direct discussion, but that isn't meant as a slight: I actually think he writes rather well. In the grand scheme of forum browsing I just find them too lengthy to take on. It's a long-form style that tends to go off on semi-related tangents or has a format I sometimes can't make sense of without some scrutiny.

If my personal forum timespend was more lethargic I'd probably enjoy poring through them, but as it stands I prefer the virtues of an edited post that gets its points across more quickly. In forum world this seems to reach a broader audience and encourage debate (although Christ knows how many time I've been stuck in cyclical argument while practicing just that).

Like I said, not meant as an insult, I'm sure people don't read my shit either, and that's fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:38 am 


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It's not just you Sky, no one's interested in most arguments between two people that go on for pages. I think of them as make out sessions and try to avoid creating any prolonged back-and-forth myself. One and done is usually sufficient.

Not meant as a slam for those who're into those kinds of things. It can be refreshing compared to piles of "games were more fun when I was a brand new human and they were new and exciting to me" kind of posts.

"I want to get into new Castlevania RPGs, but I already played SOTN." <- So depressing!


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:11 am 


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BryanM wrote:
It's not just you Sky, no one's interested in most arguments between two people that go on for pages.


Well I've been guilty of those a few times myself, although my point was more about what I consider digestible forum post structure.

Just because I don't read the long-form stuff, however, I certainly appreciate Ed's personality as a poster, and wouldn't want him to change anything. Like anyone with a particular style, I'm sure there are those who tune in to his multiple paragraph contributions as prime reading material.

It's probably a good time to mention I don't read anything that appears too or unnecesarily lengthy unless it's directed toward me. Some of the shit people post here that's meant to appear on other sites - especially HG101 - is just crazy.

No offence to Bulletmagnet, I know he often contributes there and asks for advice here - and I know his stuff is well-researched and detailed. But fuck's nuts, some of that prose is like War and Peace, but about Mushihimesama or Espgaluda instead. There's just not enough time in life to wade in - these are video games, and don't lend themselves well to ten-thousand word essays - so typically I glance at how-long and make a swift exit.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:51 pm 


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Quote:
"Gaijin Indie Retro-hipsters" and I'm not even sure who this group is or if they even exist in literal terms.


Oh but they do... I have seen them in the wild. And you have seen their effects on the environment. Usually by outrageous bidding on Nintendo items or sometimes MVS carts to a lesser degree.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:59 pm 


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If you guys are interested in a quality Metroidvania, I highly recommend giving Valdis Story a try! It just got a massive content expansion patch.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:20 pm 



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I was so passionate about what I believed to be the "absolute" of gaming or whatever. I realized its an ugly road of futile nonsense. I am an audience of 1 and what I want isn't important in relation to what is the perceived "best seller" material.

Being passionate and sensitive to negative criticism gets you into a spiral of obsession. I bet guys on here start reloading the page every 30 seconds to see if a reply is in waiting. When the only sadness arrives when you actually "agree" with what someone is saying because the war room is no longer needed.

Peace.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:24 pm 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
I was so passionate about what I believed to be the "absolute" of gaming or whatever. I realized its an ugly road of futile nonsense.


Whoa calm down there Mr.Kierkegaard.
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:15 am 


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I think the thing that blows my mind is how the big publishers ignore games like this- these kickstarters keep proving themselves to be profitable (and sometimes successful (complete product, everybody happy). This particular one has some legs. Shame Konami is so mismanaged these days. It'd be interesting to see what other companies could do if they had their hands on some of these IPs.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:45 am 


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Battlesmurf wrote:
I think the thing that blows my mind is how the big publishers ignore games like this- these kickstarters keep proving themselves to be profitable (and sometimes successful (complete product, everybody happy). This particular one has some legs. Shame Konami is so mismanaged these days. It'd be interesting to see what other companies could do if they had their hands on some of these IPs.


The problem isn't that Konami would doubt something like this would make money, it's just not enough money relative to the size of the business. All these companies have become too big - they need those massive blockbusters to cover their overheads. So for every MGS they need 15 of these - something we would probably all prefer, unless they totally change the company structure.

That's why a company like Falcom survive all these years. Small company, dedicated fanbase, moderate growth, smaller overheads - more time to develop games and each game is profitable versus office space, number of staff etc.

Ultimately mobile is just the quick and easy way to create cash-ins. Likely Konami's sites, staff and contractors will all be cut massively if they're no longer chasing the Hollywood format of multi-million dollar productions, but the chances of them banking on another Metroidvania to cover their outgoings are slim indeed.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:39 am 


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Konami: 5,453 employees
Nihon Falcom: 49 employees

2,429,998 kickblaster bucks distributed evenly to everyone:

Konami: 445.62 bucks
Nihon Falcom: 49,591.79 bucks

Estimate was off by an order of magnitude: Konami would have to make 100 games* a year if they pursued this route. There's no way they wouldn't be competing with themselves no matter if they tried to make them in different genres all with different themes. Jeff Vogel is completely right when he said "We can't compete with them, they can't compete with us."

The inability of a game company to shrink when the market dries up is legendary. Got them shareholders to feed.

So many franchises that only ever lasted one generation. Remember Battle Arena Toshinden? The most notable recent releases by that company are some spinoff Neptunia games for the Vita.

Kind of sad. Konami makes more money from gambling machines, so it's no longer a game company. Capitalism~



* You might argue that this number is kind of high, since this game isn't for sale yet and might make $10 million or more in revenue when it's finished. I'd err to say it's kind of low however: Megaman 9 made some money since people were starved for more of it over decades of neglect. But how well did Mega Man 10 do? How many people even bothered to play Mega Man X Street Fighter, a completely free PC game?


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:02 am 


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I did talk about this a little in the other thread - the basic answers are that the big companies become brand managers, there's consolidation, etc., whatever it takes to survive in the market.

I'm not terribly worried because there are lots of people working on awesome little projects, roughly in scope to the old classics, and we'll never even know about most of them. Sure beats scraping your nails against Fatty K's coffin.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:18 am 



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The writing is on the wall for the big game industry now. I myself do not even invest in any new games that are considered big budget because I don't have the time anymore. I also do not like the cultural shift to online and the "my cock is bigger than yours" with the platinum award thing thats going on.

IGA is going to make an abstract game of old and it will be refreshing to see his final product. If I won millions I would just hire the lot of them to make games like this indefinitely. The product they make as a team is as distinctive as Cave's was.. I wonder why Cave do not have any kickstarters going.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:19 am 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
I wonder why Cave do not have any kickstarters going.

Because neither they nor any of their series has anywhere near the name recognition or popularity that Konami, Iga, and Castlevania do; I honestly can't see any such project of theirs succeeding were they to ask for enough funds to create anything remotely like the Cave games we've played in the past. As nice as it is to dream that shmuppers could also count on Kickstarter et al to provide a haven for their own neglected genre, I'd wouldn't bet on it ever happening.
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:36 pm 


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There was actually an interesting article about the topic of "big indies" and the influence of their projects on Kickstarter just the other day. Basically the assertion is that developers can't ask for the *actual* budgets of their games, because the cost of game development is very high, and that higher profile authors intentionally lowball their asking budget, specifically counting on the budget getting smashed and relying on "stretch goals" to reach a number closer to the actual budget of the game.

Like Skykid mentioned, the larger a company is, the more money it needs to make to actually justify doing something. Larger companies (probably) could not recoup enough via Kickstarter to justify doing a project, if that was the only way they were funding it. Furthermore, large companies don't need to crowdfund because they can get investment from traditional angles. They're well established and have strong enough reputations that they can ask investors to back their projects. That said, we haven't seen a large company actually test this yet. Kickstarter isn't just a means of raising money, but also a strong promotional tool for game developers, so it could promote sales for a bigger company to try it. It could also be an alternative form of the "pre-order" for large companies, where the most enthusiastic players can have the opportunity to support a game in development by investing early. It could be a form of supplementary income at least. My opinion is that larger companies don't want to try because of the potential stigma - crowdfunding is primarily seen as a tool for indie developers, and it would appear greedy to some people for a larger company to raise funds on a website like Kickstarter. Furthermore, there's also the risk of a *failed* Kickstarter - in the hypothetical situation where a large company couldn't raise their KS budget, it would be a serious blow to their reputation.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:13 am 



Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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BryanM wrote:
So many franchises that only ever lasted one generation. Remember Battle Arena Toshinden? The most notable recent releases by that company are some spinoff Neptunia games for the Vita.

i would say that tamsoft's most notable recent releases are the senran kagura games (which are pretty good, at least the versus series is, haven't tried the 3ds ones), not the neptunia spinoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:59 am 


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Not to drive this too off topic, but are the Senran Kagura games actually good? I've been spammed with fanservice gifs from friends, but the few videos I've watched of actual gameplay looked like decent hack and slash gameplay (which I'm always up for). Worth giving a shot?
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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 5:25 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Kouji IGA's new "Castlevania" game
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:41 pm 



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Its obvious Konami are going down Caves road. Portable gaming, failing IP's, becoming another one of "Japans once elite but down the gutter" stories. If the company is as big as you lot say how can their gaming division justify its existence? Not to mention how many top artists will welcome the drop to portable "buy and delete" games the world has come to accept?

Can't remember the last Konami game I bought. Was probably MGS2 or Gradius 5 even though my name is in the credits of 3 or 4 games that were released after that (Due to my connection to Dave Cox).
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Last edited by neorichieb1971 on Thu May 21, 2015 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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