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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:16 pm 


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BIL wrote:
I had a movie to watch tonight goddammit. Good problem to have tbh. Image (it was WHITE BUFFARO starring CHARLES BURONSON, I told drauch I'd get round to it like two years ago! fuck! I'll get it done though!)


A true man of the people! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 pm 


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Locked and loaded! Image IMA NOOB so I just grabbed some torrent, but tbh the subterfuge kinda replicates the ol' "watching dad's rented CANNON HITS while he's at work" feel! Image

CANNON PRESENTS NINJA GAIDEN SUPERPLAY DVD
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:31 pm 


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BIL wrote:
I've consistently heard from sound fellows that the HuCard port is bad, unfortunately. :sad: The Mega CD one's not terrible, outside of some cheap shots in the last stage where they botched the aspect ratio conversion. Gets the gist of things across, AFAIK.


Thanks bro BIL.

NW Again is on our lord and savior Super Famicom/SNES only correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm 


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Yep! However you should go for the SFC version if possible - the SNES one deleted the Katana enemies. :sad: Not censored, outright deleted. Buns! To replace them they just CTRL+Vd tons of Claws. So it's missing an important enemy type, and the crowd balance is off. It's still an excellent game, and I've no doubt it'd attract just as much praise if it were the only version, but SFC's the better choice. Note that even the SFC version has green blood however (the SNES ones have none at all).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:37 pm 


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GROSS. I will only go for SFC then.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:47 pm 


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Lol yeah, even though I only creditfedlikeascrub to the end twice, recovery iframes for most of the bosses became stupidly obvious - especially a challenge with the large twin robots that like to gang up on you on stage 6.

Curiously however, the stage 7 boss doesn't seem to enjoy this advantage?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:59 pm 


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Zelos is surprisingly vulnerable for such a late boss - Ninja's shoulder charge is pretty dependable, just got to watch out for that legsweep.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:22 am 


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Thanks for all the tips. So far my best hard mode credit reached the stage 6 twins. Stage 6 seems to be the toughest one. It's short but there's no healing, the crowds are nasty, and it has what is probably the hardest boss fight. The crowd at the end with the two robots can turn really bad really easily.

I seriously underestimated Ninja's down aerial attack. It might be his best move. It beats literally everything one on one, and it's strong against groups too. It's better than the dash kick at hitting enemies in the back of a crowd. It also outranges firebreathers, which is very important.

Durandal wrote:
Some enemy attacks inflict pushback when you block them, so somersaulting forwards allows you to block attacks from the front while moving forwards simultaneously, placing you within throwing/attacking range of the poor shmuck in front of you right after he's done attacking. It's also decent for disengaging from a clustered group of enemies on one side where going in for a grab isn't an enticing option or when trying to boost away to the other side would get you poked in the wind-up frames of your boost.


This is surprisingly handy too! Good way to get the stage 2 boss back under control if something interrupts your grab chain. Seems like it'd have potential against the stage 6 twins' wakeup jumpkick too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:30 am 


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Should I just give up on going for a normal mode 1CC, and go straight to hard mode??


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:40 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Stage 6 seems to be the toughest one. It's short but there's no healing, the crowds are nasty, and it has what is probably the hardest boss fight. The crowd at the end with the two robots can turn really bad really easily.


st6 is indeed deceptively nasty - a short, merciless gauntlet where mistakes bite down hard. I'm always on red alert when I arrive there. For the crowd-assisted Loaders, always a tricky proposition for Ninja with his lack of jumps, I rely on thrown enemies. Won't do significant damage, but it'll get the Loaders floored and ready for a wakeup manhandling. I like to giant swing them to the right, away from their backup (especially that pesky Rifle, who'll be taking potshots from behind them).

Ostensibly this creates a pincer trap, but I find the Loaders are at their deadliest when sheltering other enemies - with their lower attack frequency and mobility, they're relatively safe to shove aside while you tear into the backup. Just chucking enemies about will eventually add up the damage, too, so it's not the worst thing if you end up needing to floor the crowd again.

I guess the stage is paced for a "false ending" effect. I'd not thought about it, but that goofy little pre-boss vignette is where the arcade game ends, in blunt Immortal Murder Machine fashion. "Please... don't... kill me!" (the TNWAA 1CC trophy is named Murder Machine - I love that :mrgreen: and then you can go for... MAD MURDER MACHINE Image)

PHOBOS & DEIMOS are dangerous too, though subtle vulnerabilities and tells make them more manageable than the crushing pincer they'll seem initially. This and st2/CHAINSAW BULL are two fights I greatly prefer in the original, versus TNWAA. st2 for the inescapable Texas Chainsaw claustrophobia - Bull is entirely crushable by skilled aggressors in both games, but in TNWA, there's no refuge should he get loose - and st6 for the more elegant, sharply punishing 2v1. (gonna echo myself from pre-release, in saying I wish the old st1 bosstype had remained in TNWAA - I like bringing down the giants, particularly with Ninja's stunningly violent EX chucks, but mohawk aside, they're a completely different enemy)

Quote:
I seriously underestimated Ninja's down aerial attack. It might be his best move. It beats literally everything one on one, and it's strong against groups too. It's better than the dash kick at hitting enemies in the back of a crowd. It also outranges firebreathers, which is very important.


I was trying to remember if it's truly invincible - but at any rate, it might as well be. Excellent move all-around; also a handy poke, being safe on block (if memory serves). Just have to ensure the startup hover doesn't get stuffed, something the enemy AI seems fiendishly primed for.

Sumez wrote:
Should I just give up on going for a normal mode 1CC, and go straight to hard mode??


I was going to say you might as well - I don't think I ever actually played TNWA on Normal, having been so enamoured with the "arcade for console" ethic it exudes. But looking at my ancient Ninja Hard 1CC, I was clearly lacking on fundamentals... so maybe it wouldn't hurt to clear Normal first?

Kamaitachi's EZ Crouch P Cheese is the main thing I warn new players about - regardless of difficulty setting, it'll obviate just about everything that makes The Ninja & Kunoichi Show a two-for-one brawling masterpiece.

Conversely, I actually had a blast getting the clear with him in TNWAA... his bizarre ground EX move is already cool enough used "normally," at distances that'll see some of the spikes go wide (chained from his back throw, for a ruthless high-altitude pincushioning, or more defensively to give backstabbers a nasty hedgehogtastic surprise) - but if you exploit his crouchrun and lack of grapple to get pointblank, you can unload every last one directly into the target and assassinate the fucker in spectacularly meaty fashion. :shock:

Also, in no universe will this ever not gratify:

Spoiler: show
Image


Juggle mechanic makes the punt ruder and more unceremoniously pratfalling than ever. Image Moving onto Yaksha 1CC for now, but I think I'll enjoy nailing down watchable clears with Kamaitachi as much as the other two originals.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:31 pm 


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So... Which enemy is the "loader"?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:34 pm 


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Tall robo with forklift arms Image Durandal posted the official names according to TV Tropes a while back, but I am stubbornly fond of a few I made up Image Those dudes with the nasty legsweep and shades will always be "Secret Service Guys" to me!

Come to think of it I could check the SFC manual :o Thing's probably in Japanese though!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 pm 


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BROTHER BIL I SEEK GUIDANCE.

I have played all our lords and saviors. Contra, Ninja Gaiden 1-3, CV 3, Megamans etc...

I seek...HIDDEN GEMS.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:33 pm 


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Hidden gems have always been a notoriously difficult proposition in this community. Image Starting off fairly moderate, have you played Dragon Fighter (FC)? Not as widely beloved as its Natsume companion pieces Shadow of the Ninja and Shatterhand, but it's just as good in its more straightforward hack/slash sphere. Airtight handling and outstanding BGM as per Natsume standards. Hard mode should be considered the default, makes good swordplay non-optional, bringing the tight combat and well-observed Dragon mode to the fore.

It's not an aesthetic favourite by any means - kinda fugly and goofy - but Totsuzen! Machoman aka Amagon is surprisingly good. I'm pretty sure it shared Aicom staff with the later Gun-Dec aka Vice Project Doom - very different sort of sidescroller, more of a Rockmanesque precision platformer to GD's NG-style roughouse, but it's similarly well-done.

I'll also suggest Devil Hunter Yoko (MD) - will seem a bit dog-eared at first, with the iffy sword feedback and alarming lack of player hitstun, but pardoning those slightly amateurish elements it puts on a surprisingly confident Strideresque run/slasher.

Really late here so will leave it at that for now, tbh I'm sure others can do a better job than me here - I tend to hover around reasonably well-known stuff, at least by this community's standards.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:36 pm 


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How hidden are we talking?

Off the top of my head I recall Dragon Fighter, Kick Master, Nazo no Murasamejou, Ningen Heiki Dead Fox, and Seirei Densetsu Lickle all being well-received in this thread at some point.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:08 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Should I just give up on going for a normal mode 1CC, and go straight to hard mode??


Normal and Hard don't seem drastically different. So far as I can tell, enemy stats and behavior are identical, normal just reduces their numbers a bit and downgrades some to weaker variants. Jubei doesn't get reinforcements after you beat the two giants he starts with, or else they respawn very slowly. I'm not sure how much the other bosses have been changed. I think Phobos and Deimos are identical. If you're good enough to 1CC Normal you're probably right on the cusp of able to 1CC Hard.

BIL wrote:
PHOBOS & DEIMOS are dangerous too, though subtle vulnerabilities and tells make them more manageable than the crushing pincer they'll seem initially.


I took at look at your youtube playthrough to find out what you mean. I see now that they suffer a severe weakness to corner camping. I'll have to make use of that from now on. I've mostly been trying to pin them into a corner, which is workable but far from ideal.

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
BROTHER BIL I SEEK GUIDANCE.

I have played all our lords and saviors. Contra, Ninja Gaiden 1-3, CV 3, Megamans etc...

I seek...HIDDEN GEMS.


The "Action Games Worth Playing" section at the bottom of the thread index is a good place to start. Though if anyone has recommendations that haven't been posted in this thread, or at least haven't seen much discussion, I too would be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:00 am 


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Oh god, I'd forgotten all about that. :lol: Yeah that seems to work too! Definitely don't hover crash 'em while they're in wakeup like I did, though - that's a surefire way to get your neck stomped on. :o

I'm kinda in the mood to record an updated Ninja clear, now. Would be an ideal time after a couple weeks' TNWAA. God does that game make my perfectionism explode, though.

These days I try to keep them to one side, but aggressive nunchakus mean even a pincer's not too big a deal. As a rule of thumb with Ninja, in both TNWA and the remake - if surrounded, bust out the chucks. Anyone in striking range is getting floored after taking a healthy chunk of damage. The corner's not very important at all, except I suppose if you reach them at death's door and need to be ultra-safe.

Main thing I look out for is the telltale backwards hop signalling an incoming slidekick. Almost a welcome event, once you get used to it - it's a sitting duck for hover attacks, even the stationary variant, practically guaranteeing a knockdown.

Yeah, I was coming back to suggest the indexes too. Not everything we suggested is particularly obscure, but then again, I put off trying justly celebrated killers like Gimmick! for years for various reasons, so maybe it'll help steer in the right direction? Going more for pure obscurity, I've always like kitten's picks, particularly for the Famicom.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:36 am 


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Thanks Vanguard.

And BIL mentioned a few not in his post there as well. Kitten I also find to be reliable for good recs/taste so I checked his as well. Gameboy isn't my thing at all or I would check those.

Lots of interesting Fami games I've never heard of to try out. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:42 am 


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Even... scratch that, especially if you hate the original GB, I'd suggest at least booting up Rubble Saver. :mrgreen: I actually genuinely like it - imagine Ex-Ranza being faxed to your GB from somewhere in early 80s Tokyo - but it's... well, it's unique. It's actually a remake of the FC game Miracle Roppin, which I (and many others) find to be outright kusoge, though having said that, I only played it for a couple minutes.

Bionic Commando GB is also a legitimately killer grappling hook platformer - won't belabour it too heavily, I know the GB's particular quirks are love/hate as all hell, but if there's a game to make an exception for it's that one. Could've easily gone straight to FC as a sequel to HITLER COME TO LIFE AGAIN

Aww fuck, I can't help it - Totsugeki! Ponkotsu Tank is another goodie. Short and easy but uproariously destructive topdown tanking. Play with one life = one credit rules and it's somewhat brisk. For the love of god and all that is holy, tap the rotate button, don't hold!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:48 am 


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This game is as far from obscure as is imaginable, but Batman NES is noticeably missing from the index and is definitely top NES tier.

On the 'games that are well respected but not highly ranked in their series or often thought about' side, I'll give Shadow Dancer for the Gen/MD a plug—very well thought out level design with the signature 1-hit Shinobi style, fair and challenging.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:53 am 


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I was surprised Batman wasn't there too - totally my fault, I was absolutely burnt out last January and only just made it a quarter of the way into the thread before bailing. Will be in the update most assuredly! It's proudly listed in my (then relatively small) FC collection as a must-have, at least. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:22 am 


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it290 wrote:
This game is as far from obscure as is imaginable, but Batman NES is noticeably missing from the index and is definitely top NES tier.


It is, on BIL's post under the "Action Games Worth Playing" section at the bottom of the post, like Vanguard wrote.

Just to clarify, for folks that weren't around when that post was made, that index is by no means complete. It contains most of the stuff from that page onwards plus BIL's list from his post just before mine. Most of the discussion from the previous ~250 pages is still unnaccounted for. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:23 am 


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Would Hagane count as obscure? I legitimately never heard of it before joining this forum. Same for gems like Rude Breaker and Dragon Fighter.

Perhaps I'd chip in Gigantic Army on the doujin side of things. I doubt it's as well known as Valken, but it's absolutely one of my favorite games.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:06 am 


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You might as well just say everything by Natsume on the NES is worth going through before looking at the rest.

Shatterhand or Power Blade might not but super obscure, but definitely make sure to go through them if you haven't.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:24 pm 


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I had a lot of fun with this SNES game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majyūō

It was unreleased in North America; not sure how unknown it is but it felt like a good hidden gem of a horror themed platformer, more forgiving than Castlevania generally is, and with multiple characters/"forms" to play as.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:28 pm 


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It's been discussed at length in this thread, and it's definitely quite hidden outside of its immediate notoriety as one of the more expensive import titles.

I think the general consensus is that it's a pretty good game, though not up to the heights of its genre from the "NES era". At least that's the approach I subscribe to. IMO it stands out for being one of the only game of its kind in the 16 bit generation, and that alone makes it worth spending time with.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:27 pm 


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Does anyone else find it at least as interesting to discover obscure games that are that way for good reason? :lol:

Adventures with Youkai Club (FC). Unknown, undistinguished. Something good came out of it though! At least one decent tune, and this VRC6 fan arrangement is utterly stomping. Its OST reminds me a fair bit of Hiroyuki Iwatsuki's wonderful SFC Kiki Kaikai music, actually.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:04 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I had a lot of fun with this SNES game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majyūō

It was unreleased in North America; not sure how unknown it is but it felt like a good hidden gem of a horror themed platformer, more forgiving than Castlevania generally is, and with multiple characters/"forms" to play as.


This looks pretty awesome.

The best thing about the MD/Genny games mentioned is I have an everdrive all set up so I can try those very easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:34 pm 


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Weird, I guess the two accented characters are making the wiki link fail miserably, here's a YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rWRD40eko

It's probably not up to snuff with say Castlevania 3, but to see all the characters
Spoiler: show
including the one that triggers the true ending
you need 4 separate playthroughs:

Spoiler: show
Each transformation has an upgraded form if you collect the same colour 3 times, and there's an additional secret form you can trigger that activates the true ending, though from what I remember it's the same bosses.


I should have guessed it woulda been discussed in this thread earlier of course. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:36 am 


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Errr, it's been a while so I could be wrong, but IIRC you don't need multiple playthroughs to get the true end in Majuoo. The condition for ultimate final form and true ending is not about upgrading any form x3, but rather it's just to pick up all the 3 demon colors once in a single playthrough. So play one level as fire boi, another as ice dragon, and another as green dude, and then after beating Beelzebub you'll get Holy Unicorn Man.
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