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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:35 pm 


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The first thing i'd have to rethink about nightmare is playing it at all, cause i'm quite decided on never doing that. :P

Against Thee Wickedly was a real good time pistol start jesus.

Working my way slowly through Plutonia on UV now, normal plays. Caged was tough, man.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm 


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REGARDING "THE ULTIMATE DOOM," NOT DOOM II, FINAL DOOM, OR USER-MADE CONTENT:

Nightmare is a different experience, but I don't rate it much. I wanted more satisfying combat than UV+Fast Monsters, and NM does the opposite. Killing anything not directly blocking you is a waste of time and ammo, only giving enemies (living and dead) time to close in. It feels almost like a vehicular combat game. Even if I KILL EM ALL Image they'll just respawn until I drain the level of ammo. What do you want me to use then, harsh language? Imma make like a tree and fuck off.

I was never able to broach the subject without triggering mah boi Obscura :wink: (SEE BIG GREEN TEXT ABOVE, YOU CUTE FUCK (■`W´■)), but in this regard I suggest Brutal DOOM. Yes, its meme/gore content commands a retarded fanbase. I suggest disabling taunts immediately. WRT fatalities, they're daft, but they do genuinely contribute (big HP restore for risky bare-handed kills)

More importantly, its enemy aggression and volatility make Ultimate DOOM exciting again, while the shattering carnage restores that long-lost ULTRA VIOLENCE. I don't mean the "lmao he say huge guts" goobery, I turn that dumb shit off. I'm talking the hard truth that pointblank buckshot will turn a man's asshole into ravioli.

That sad lone Cacodemon guarding a key can now abruptly lunge and eat you alive. Those assclown zombiemen who *pap* off a round or two before collapsing into infighting can now Alex J. Murphy the unwary with vicious mag dumps. Imps that once ambled in your direction occasionally firing will now relentlessly leap and claw if you let them get close. Barons can defeat circle strafe with their spreadshot, forcing you to dodge more broadly than you may like. Cyberdemons' offset shots likewise. It's more chaotic and punishing but still unmistakably DOOM.

Yeah, you do need to take cover from zombie hitscan (technically now lightning-fast projectiles, ie bullets) now and then. But you always did, technically. 5% health? No ammo? Zombies a mile across open ground? It's 1993 and your ass is taking cover, son. Mine was anyway! Doin no-saves from before I could bust, noobs. :cool: (I was viscerally disgusted by a noob friend quicksaving after each and every kill in Wolf3D :evil:). They're just non-comatose on the trigger now. Consider killing them en masse with a nice rocket or grenade. Like any good zako (cf Metal Slug), they remain puny and squashable by attentive players, but can now cause stinging upsets if ignored.

I recommend playing Thy Flesh Consumed (E4) on at least Ultra Violence, then after you've cleared it once, Black Metal. For a good three years running that was one of my favourite casual "1CCs" to unwind with. Has a decidedly Slug-esque continuity... build up caches of valuable ammo, expend 'em with extreme prejudice on priority targets, making do with your bread/butter ballistics elsewhere.

Also, at least in the most current version as of two years ago, Enemy Respawn is intriguingly broken by the mod's body destruction mechanic. 95% of kills won't revive, but occasionally, you'll have a random corpse erupt to life, or open a door to be greeted by something you killed five minutes ago, or find yourself between an impromptu pincer in Episode 2's tight, winding mazes. It's tensely entertaining, and entirely better than the vanilla DOOM respawn. It's also toggled via Settings, regardless of difficulty level, so you can always nix it if desired.

Finally, consider getting to grips with DOOM Builder. It's an easy program to use, with enemy/item placement a simple matter of drag/drop. I like to shitcan the Invulnerability spheres that can trivialise swathes of TFC (I turn 'em into Soulspheres instead, so you're still rewarded without being totally off the hook)

As noted above in massive green text, this recommendation applies to nothing beyond the OG DOOM's four eps. From DOOM II onward, BD's altered balance may cause a shitshow. Likewise for any decent user-made map, the best of whose monster usage is lightyears beyond anything in the three official releases. This is strictly referring to the always charming but now relatively toothless original game.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:52 am 


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I mean .. there's always -skill 4 -fast. Doesn't even require mods.


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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:59 am 


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Isn't that just UV +fast monsters though >_>

BITD I'd set it to UV +fast, then IDCLEV to a stage, use IDDQ+IDSPISPOPD and tear around the map waking everybody up, then return to the entrance, disable cheats and save. SOMEWHAT MORE INTERESTING Image

I tell you though... being left standing there like a jerkoff, hearing grunts and groans from the next room, and walking in on monsters infighting themselves to pieces (as usually occurs without very careful execution of the wakeup pass) was like kicking in the front door to find your Dad plowing your pastor on the kitchen table.

THAT ASS BELONG 2 ME (■`W´■)
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:54 am 


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any love for the STALKER series?

New PC player here.
One of the first FPSs that took hook since I ascended (j/k :oops: ) has been Call of Chernobyl. Obviously I'm late to the party but I fired it up with a very basic near-vanilla stability mod (ZRR 1.07) and was instantly sucked in. This game world lives on in your head when not playing. Haunting atmosphere and tense shooting. Having to work yourself up like a dog from nothing in the beginning was fun.

However, I was feeling the STALKER SoC storyline meh. The text is ... not good, will prob play with a localization mod next time.

After playing a few other titles I started up STALKER Clear Sky. Had to wrestle with the poor optimization but was having fun after that. Looking forward to playing the third game in the series eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:16 am 


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One of those games I've wanted to play forever. Got one of them running (barely) on my old desktop years ago, what I played was amazing.

Think I might be due another playthorugh of Deux Ex sometime soon as well.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:50 pm 


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It's an FPS! It's a Metroid game! It's both!?

I replayed Prime 1 on GameCube, and excellent game I have little new to say about. I hadn't spent time with the sequels, since I was pretty sure there was a decline in quality, but it's been well over a decade now so let's give them a whirl on Trilogy. A low-budget all-purpose title screen replaces those of the original three releases and you get dumped straight in after making your selection. Since Prime 3 seemed the more different game then Prime 1, I skipped ahead to that.

We all know motion control was the Wii's gimmick, and boy is it a gimmick here. The opening bit on Samus's ship has you moving the remote every which way to manipulate various devices before you can even take a step. You come across many control panels in the game and some of them are activated by scanning as in Prime 1, some by a palm sensor, some by pulling the remote toward you and twisting it 90 degrees and pushing it forward, some by tilting the remote up and down like a lever, some by shaking the nunchuk to attach your grapple and then either adding or draining energy, some by turning on your X-ray visor so you can see a PIN in invisible ink and type it in. It's a lot of meaningless fluff just to press an 'On' switch.

I have to say that looking and aiming feel very good (with sensitivity set on advanced), yet combat doesn't improve overall. Beam-switching is gone and missiles are pathetically weak. You soon get the ability to chug your own e-tanks to enter a Hyper mode, and you're power's so ludicrously boosted that fighting outside of it is a waste of time. Enemies that would take 60 beam shots to kill normally go down after 3 Hyper taps. Most of your health loss therefore comes from self-cannibalization rather than enemy action.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:19 am 


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Why the hell would you skip 2.
.. wait, 2 is the only one I've played. :lol: I enjoyed that a lot, but god damn I spent a lot of time tapping the A button.

Oh I forgot to say, I finished Doom Plutonia on UV. Man, that put hairs on my chest o_o
not pistol starts, and save scumming like a cheap whore.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:09 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Oh I forgot to say, I finished Doom Plutonia on UV. Man, that put hairs on my chest o_o


Good (`ω´メ)

Quote:
not pistol starts


Eh. (`ω´メ) Never saw the appeal. I am from an arcade background of "haw haw! you shoulda took me out, but you didn't, and now I got this massive brillo pad nutsack I'm gonna rub on your bitchass face!"

Quote:
and save scumming like a cheap whore.


Per stage is aight. (`ω´メ) PER KILL though is shamefur, DISGRACEFUR, Obscura's casket hitting RPMs high enough to tear spacetime and cause DOOM irl!
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:54 am 


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It was more like 4-5 times a stage :oops:

Per stage is a looong fucking time! Room full of revenants and Mancubi actually takes a while to dispatch, I don't wanna do it all again every time :|

I'm not as bad as my boy Fence playing Doom64. A wall opens behind him and he gets popped by a sargeant, loses a SMALL AMOUNT OF HEALTH. Says "no" and loads his quicksave.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:05 am 


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Blinge wrote:
A wall opens behind him and he gets popped by a sargeant, loses a SMALL AMOUNT OF HEALTH. Says "no" and loads his quicksave.


This was my buddy BITD, every time a body hit the floor, flawless F6+Y muscle memory. :mrgreen:

A few times a stage I get though, particularly with how monster closet happy Plutonia/TNT can get. Even DOOM II, tbh. Never mind PWADs. I remember trying to one-save Scythe's last regular map and in hindsight it was a pretty stupid thing to do. Shoulda worked backward to that from a couple of quicksaves. Everything up to that point was doable but that map is rather a spike.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:25 pm 


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Sure, MP3:Corruption has some unnecessary motion stuff, but the core game is solid. Hypermode drains energy, so you can't use it all the time; there are times it is convenient to deal with bullet sponge enemies or handle pirates with shields (when pulling their shields is inconvenient). You also have the option to avoid it entirely.

The advanced aiming mode is fantastic and it's the closest thing to mouse and keyboard shooting I've experienced. In fact, I like it better, because I can move using an analog stick. It feels effortless--like the Dishonored series on the PC. The Conduit series and Red Steel 2 also had good controls and feel, but MP3 pairs its controls with a great game. Prime 3 also introduce screw attack in 3d. It's marvelous and long overdue.

Unpopular opinion: Among the Prime games, I prefer Metroid Prime 3--despite some boring waggle. Once mastered, controlling Samus in Prime 3 is absolutely effortless. MP3 has a "lock on" option that I rarely use or need. (I hate lock on, by the way. Lock on is a crutch for bad game/control design.)

That leads me to another point. Why was waggle okay in Half Life Alyx? I don't get it. That shit is waggle, but it rarely gets called out. The entire game feels like a gimmick to me. It was still fun, but it was definitely a gimmick and it wasn't a Half Life game.

The devs say reloading guns is "interesting". Is it really? That's what we usually call waggle. It's waggle. It's a gimmick. It gets in the way of running and gunning.

Using the tool to solve the same boring wires in the wall or orb puzzles feels gimmicky as fuck. Refusing to show stats using a HUD and making me look at my hand is also unnecessary. At least they got changing guns right with a simple gesture selection. "Immersion" usually means waggle. I don't enjoy fiddling around with holsters in Arizona Sunshine.

Picking things up with the gloves is interesting. It's waggle, but it's good waggle.

On the other hand, the convoluted waggle reload process (and motion controls still aren't 100%) doesn't add value; it's a gimmick. It gets in the way of run and gun: something that's painfully missing from most of Half Life Alyx. Unlike Metroid Prime 3's effortless locomotion, HL:A is trapped by VRs weaknesses. The hardware forces gamers to struggle: managing a physical boundary versus in game locomotion. Your body tells you to move to a space, but you always have to think about how to get there--and you're always trying to stay in the center of your physical play area to use cover. That gets in the way of running and gunning.

MP3 brings back the screw attack. HL:A deletes the crowbar. Thanks to the gimmick of VR, players can't see walls and obstacles. To save controllers and property from destruction, melee is removed. How many sacrifices must be made to put on a game on this gimmick VR gaming platform?

Thanks to motion sickness, platforming is almost entirely removed. There's almost always one way (and only one way) through an area. Yawn.

And, of course, moving about is a pain, so HL:A nerfs the gun play. It's a first person shooter without intense action. Most of the intensity comes from fighting the controls and waggling. That's a strong contrast to Superhot VR. That game was cleverly designed for VR's limitations. I physically move and I don't have to constantly think about where I am standing in my play area. There is no waggle. Because I can move and use weapons effortlessly, Superhot VR can throw enemies and bullets at me. Because SH:VR only uses physical locomotion and the game's bullet time mechanic slows things down, there is no motion sickness.

For gimmicks and waggle, Half Life Alyx reigns supreme.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:11 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
(I hate lock on, by the way. Lock on is a crutch for bad game/control design.)


I was about to post in agreement, that auto lock on for all weapons (aside from ones specifically balanced around having homing) in a FPS is a bit lame and feels too easy. Thinking about it more I'm on the fence. It's an acceptable accessibility option to put in an easy mode like how Casual Automatic difficulty does it.

When I played Perfect Dark for the N64 I saw that lock-on was enabled by default, where the cursor goes for body shots (and lock-on aggressiveness is tied to difficulty I think). In a game where headshots do way more damage it felt like it got in the way at times, but the N64's controls and the game's framerate weren't ideal for a precise FPS, so I kinda understand why it's there.

I would feel weird playing a FPS where you auto lock with all weapons on PC with mouse controls, but on a console game where the controller generally doesn't have the same responsiveness I guess I can understand why a developer will include some degree of lock-on in games.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:58 am 


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Awww man, now I really miss Wiimote controls for FPS games more than ever. Metroid Prime Trilogy was indeed one that had genuinely great games attached, though most games that had it also implemented it well - the immersion elevating an otherwise mediocre title. I really enjoyed Conduit 2 though, but it's so short it's basically 1/3rd of a game.


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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:14 am 


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I miss BlackLight Retribution.
Jesus Christ I loved that damn game...
Closest to it was that Ghost in the Shell game. I fiended on that until they for some bizarre reason nerfed the fuck out of the game's speed. :l


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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:26 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Hypermode drains energy, so you can't use it all the time; there are times it is convenient to deal with bullet sponge enemies or handle pirates with shields (when pulling their shields is inconvenient). You also have the option to avoid it entirely.

I don't think you do. Bosses have spots that can only be damaged by hyper attacks... and, by necessity, they now shed health so the player can go grayscale vision and not get stuck in an endless loop. Health in general is so frequent that it rarely makes sense to be hyper-chaste and have every fight with normal enemies drag on.

The cadence of maximizing hyper is annoying too. You should fire a few shots after activating it, then make no attacks for 10 seconds or so until the auto charge kicks in, then you can regularly fire until kicked out of it by the hard time limit. Or mash the button to end it if the enemies are already dead and you need to use the map or visor or open any door other than the basic blue ones, all things you're locked out of while in it for some reason.

I'm not liking the segmented world design and unavoidable transitions as you have to use your ship to travel from map to map (or blow up a door, or haul cargo). And the maps themselves... SkyTown's some platforms connected by rails, with nothing to do while riding them but shoot the telegraphed barrier that occasionally pops up. I got so sick of the backtracking there. When a game gives you a remote-controlled spaceship and makes you complete inane tasks with it to progress, it feels especially dumb that Samus can't just have it pick her up and drop her off at these open places and skip all that.
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 Post subject: Re: the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:07 pm 


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Mortificator wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Hypermode drains energy, so you can't use it all the time; there are times it is convenient to deal with bullet sponge enemies or handle pirates with shields (when pulling their shields is inconvenient). You also have the option to avoid it entirely.

I don't think you do. Bosses have spots that can only be damaged by hyper attacks... and, by necessity, they now shed health so the player can go grayscale vision and not get stuck in an endless loop. Health in general is so frequent that it rarely makes sense to be hyper-chaste and have every fight with normal enemies drag on.

The cadence of maximizing hyper is annoying too. You should fire a few shots after activating it, then make no attacks for 10 seconds or so until the auto charge kicks in, then you can regularly fire until kicked out of it by the hard time limit. Or mash the button to end it if the enemies are already dead and you need to use the map or visor or open any door other than the basic blue ones, all things you're locked out of while in it for some reason.


Yes. The are situations where hypermode is used and it is unavoidable, but they are few and far between. In general, though, you don't need it.

The behavior of the hypermode is story and narrative driven. I never really worried about it, but it is a case of the game designer's narrative dictating game play.

Also, you can avoid plenty of overload episodes by dodging phason grenades from space pirates. The controls allow for seamless simultaneous movement, jumping, and gunning.

This may or may not be your view: but, I have read plenty of criticism from some players that complain about hypermode as "overpowered" (cause they be so "gud") and simultaneously complain about venting. I don't get it. I know from experience; people that are "gud" (yours truly is) aren't getting hit with phason grenades very often. Thanks to the absolutely lovely controls, I can rapid fire rounds into a target without ever sitting still--and I only use lock on in a few boss battles. (Lock on actually reduces your ability to be effective against a crowd)

Mortificator wrote:
I'm not liking the segmented world design and unavoidable transitions as you have to use your ship to travel from map to map (or blow up a door, or haul cargo). And the maps themselves... SkyTown's some platforms connected by rails, with nothing to do while riding them but shoot the telegraphed barrier that occasionally pops up. I got so sick of the backtracking there. When a game gives you a remote-controlled spaceship and makes you complete inane tasks with it to progress, it feels especially dumb that Samus can't just have it pick her up and drop her off at these open places and skip all that.


I enjoyed the segmented worlds.

I hate Skytown ziplines. Yes, that sucks. Worst thing in the game.

I didn't mind the backtracking, but this is a "Metroidvania". My complaint with Skytown was losing a platform. The game is definitely story driven. Hollow Knight is the game that crossed lines for me when it comes to frustrating Metroidvania game design. I think MP3 is pretty tame, but YMMV.
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