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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:16 pm 


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Blue


clp - 56,518,553 - All - Shishin - 49,521 - shmupmame 4.2

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And heres the 51 mill video with Gensuke for anyone interested.

https://youtu.be/_Gt4r9Vb4ew


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:38 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:25 pm 


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Some route improvements are paying off along with some new boss milks on 4, shit cat spider though leaving him with 14 mill (pb for that point is 17) and a slightly wanky tlb. Road to 70 mill is going to take some work and more no missing to get the health items as coin count.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:12 pm 


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Nice progress!
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:15 pm 


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Keres wrote:
Nice progress!


Cheers, this games been super fun to learn I think more so because i've never seen/found any high scoring runs of it so i've pieced my route together solely by playing alot and trial and error.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:35 pm 


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clp - 68,967,875 - All - Shishin - 60,246 - shmupmame 4.2

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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:47 pm 


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Was planning on going for proms score in arcade but tapping mechanics are shit and kill my hand so i'l leave it at this, the changes in blue make it so much more fun than original imo. Back to blue for 70 mill now i guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:23 pm 


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:P

I just watched your gensuke blue video, nice
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:33 pm 


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PROMETHEUS wrote:
:P

I just watched your gensuke blue video, nice


Thanks it's nothing special though, I have a 68mill clear here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FcgdcIHRk. You should come have some fun with guwange blue prom :)


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:21 am 


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Only a question. There are some japanese scores about the blue label arcade version? This revision is available in japan in some game center?


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:25 am 


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Gemant wrote:
Only a question. There are some japanese scores about the blue label arcade version? This revision is available in japan in some game center?


Well as it was a prize to guwange competition winners and appeared at a matsuri event so i'd say of course there are top japanese scores for this game and they removed the counter stop, for some reason i'm sure i remember seeing records for it once but can't remember where and i think they are around 110mill, as for the second i'd imagine so. I'd like to know what the top scores are on xbox live aswell if anyone can access that?

There's actually a lot of changes in the game that i don't think anyone really knows about past the obvious which i'l get round to listing for anyone interested sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:55 am 


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You sure they removed the counterstop, or was what you saw just the score it would have been without the counterstop, calculated from the end bonus and the score at the end of the final stage? It doesn't look like they added more digits to the game...
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:44 am 


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Shepardus wrote:
You sure they removed the counterstop, or was what you saw just the score it would have been without the counterstop, calculated from the end bonus and the score at the end of the final stage? It doesn't look like they added more digits to the game...


Actually that's a good point and something i didn't consider, the biggest re balancing in the game is the cat spider milk which in blue only lasts 3 cycles and will then move onto the final phase with greater health if you don't wear him down on top of no secondary coin stream either reducing slowdown means getting the kind of scores people get from original is pretty much impossible (top players leave cat spider with approx 34 mill and run 7 cycles) and tapping for coins is replaced with grazing but all projectiles can be cancelled.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:59 pm 


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I think, it's good that they limited the cat spider milk, because this difficulty spike at this point in the game with this amount of punishment is not a good balance at all (it is the only way to increase score past a certain threshold and too large a portion of the difficulty weight of the game is concentrated at that point which if you failed fails your run, plus it is definitely too random). I didn't mind the coin stream, but it is noisy (lol), what I liked about it is that have to find your seconds of stability to use it, but I really don't mind it gone (it doesn't necessarily kill your hand if you do it at the right rythm I think, because the most efficient was to hold for like a bit less than half a second and release for a little less, I think in rythm with the beat of the boss battle music^^ if you do it faster you get less coins cause its related to your shot stream speed relative to the time it takes for the skullmeter to go back to grey). In my opinion the bullet cancelling in bosses when you kill some of the popcorn in blue is too much, it clears the screen skips patterns boring.

I'm not sure what I think of the new system where the previously marked bullets end up disappearing.. It's true it was a bit too messy before sometimes. But, I think they should have changed the patterns and add difficulty then? it's a lot easier if you can mark stuff around and cancel it later like this and you get coins anyway. Is it too easy sometimes???? difficulty is good in the original, with a few spots probably bit too hard, others kinda easy. Maybe a good alternative would have been to make bombing less punishing instead? and tone down a few troublespots? OH WELL just my 2cents :P it's good that they made another version, this game is great and has some flaws, counterstopping included of course. I'll watch your other blue game

(also I'm curious about what they did to the last pattern of last boss, it wasn't perfect before and a bit too random but very interesting pattern)
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:17 pm 


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Completely agree on cat spider it almost ruined the game for me so blues tweaks were a great improvement imo. They did change the difficulty and patterns, all enemies shoot more aggressively (see the rooftop line near the beginningish of stage 3 for an obvious example) and bosses have harder patterns for example cat spiders last form is way more aggressive (made even more so by little slowdown and no coin streaming to activate it) stage 4s boss is harder to in terms of the last 2 attacks and in terms of milking. Keeping your chain in blue is easier as the skull meter is fractionally slower and bombing during bosses the meter stops at 2 skulls but not in the stages. Another minor change in blue is if your skull meter is in the gold and you switch to shot to stream coins from killing enemies if you graze a bullet at the same time the coin accumulation goes extra fast, you can see me trying to exploit this in stage 1 after the first turret wall where i move up to point blank the armies spawning aggressively as possible, whether they spawn a bullet etc is random however and aside from that i haven't devised any real areas within the game to gain from it but it is there. The biggest effect of the new bullet cancelling is you have more room to allow the screen to really fill up more and still be able to save yourself by killing an enemy where as in vanilla it's very easy to lose track of a rogue bullet and it slip through the shiki net to hit you, it kind of makes blue much more like a black label game ie easier if you play for survival but very high difficulty ceiling if you go for constant full screen cancels with high risk. Ok the last boss pattern is basically less dense but much faster. Another massive change and the most profitable point in the game aswell as being much much harder is the boss before the baby, the orbs now cancel bullets into coins making this part extremely important but also extremely scary as it gets very aggressive to the point staying in control of the rhythm can be a nightmare. Blue overall is just much more fun imo although i still love both versions.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:48 pm 


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that's interesting, definitely sound good overall
I just watched your shishin 68M run, it is quite class :]
actually playing a bit of DOJ these days, but maybe I come have a try at this blue version later
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:51 pm 


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Small pb that despite being 10k less coins overall demonstrates a much stronger early game and finish from the last pb, shame i took a small hit just as the banquet spawned to same for a couple other health pick ups.

clp - 70,283,102 - All - Shishin - 49,621 - shmupmame 4.2

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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:58 pm 


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won't you post a replay yo?^^ I like it even better than videos cause the quality is 100% :P
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:23 pm 


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PROMETHEUS wrote:
won't you post a replay yo?^^ I like it even better than videos cause the quality is 100% :P


Here you go mate, you'll need both the nvram and the inp because shmupmame desyncs or something without both.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pzczmdwo2q3gdd/eeprom?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/srp9dul5dcx4v ... s.inp?dl=0


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:03 pm 


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Nice -_- beautiful game yo, well played
I didn't know shishin gets surrounded by samurais in the ending
gg
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:50 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:39 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:08 pm 


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huhu, getting close there eh^^
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:21 pm 


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PROMETHEUS wrote:
huhu, getting close there eh^^

Yeah baby steps, chain got halved during the tlb and i used a bomb so that cost me a couple mill i'd imagine. My current catspider strat in regards to the milkable bit is to dodge and milk 2 cycles and bomb the 3rd then milk and send him to the next form but i think i could maybe try getting 4 cycles out of him but as you're fully aware that thing is brutally random at the best of times. I feel like i'll need some early game improvements to get into the 50s. Aside from the last tlb pattern the whole of the last stage is much easier than blue so that's nice at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:43 pm 


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Painfully close to my 50 target thwarted by as always a shit tlb fight, still left cat spider with 14.5mill which is good now that i'm doing 4 cycles despite it giving strong resetitus. Pbed in blue yesterday running a few one off credits to take a break from arcade and got a pb which was also ballsed up at the end... 80 mill is feasible now with my new routing and good survival.

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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:33 pm 


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-.- !
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:17 pm 


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God this game is basically taunting me at this point. Blue is so much more fun than this mainly because they're are actually more milks and scoring chances that don't put the whole game on how well you do the tlb and the grazing thing so i'm going back to it for a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:23 am 


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at first I thought you beat me! rly close!
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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:48 am 


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PROMETHEUS wrote:
at first I thought you beat me! rly close!


I know right? Believe me i should of going into the final stage 4 million ahead, so much depends on health drops and the last boss which has never yet treated me aswell as what you got in your run lel. It's just the fucking spider that really assaults my motivation sometimes, such a completely random piece of shit I had a great run yesterday then the spiders orbs just floated at the top of the screen on his sprite so they couldn't even be shot at, who the fuck designed that nonsense?


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 Post subject: Re: Guwange
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:17 pm 


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yeah I agree with you
In my best run, I both played well and was lucky to get this ending at the last boss. The 3rd boss is way too random. And the health pickups value... the balance and randomness is not very good. I picked this plan because it's hard to beat, but it's not as random as trying to do more rounds on the 3rd boss. I better wanted to have more chances to do 3rd boss right, and then chance a "no faint" @last boss which I knew was possible, but there is definitely luck involved in how the pattern goes. Actually I was also thinking of trying for 50M (if lucky enough to do final boss without halving chain) but the run I got was rly nice plus the "symmetrical" score I was like ok GG.
I wonder how much SWY restarted at 3rd boss, that's a question I'd like to ask him. Like, did you die on first 3 loops of cat spider a lot? 4rth? 5th? What about last boss last pattern? Ofc he has huge skill and he makes great optimization throughout, but I would like to know because I don't think you can get too consistent there, and most importantly the punishment is too great once again and too focused on these parts. If it had less value, you could choose to focus on other things to get a better score, and not automatically get these efforts nullified for failing at these select very hard & random spots.

tbh I think, for us who just play at home and maybe play other games, it's better not to try to push score too high sometimes lol, but if you want to beat my score go for it ;D what can I say
in any case put out a replay!
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