Should I feel bad for not going by the 1cc at all cost rule?

[fireflame]

I enjoy shmups to some extent but I admit that I am not very good at it, even with practice. So I want to start using save states more and when the game allows infinite continuous I don't restrain myself(Phantom pilots is my latest experience).

There are shmups I can overcome with efforts, like gunhed or final star soldier or blazing soldier or accessible shmups in general but there are also games where I feel I meet a huge wall.

I feel for old games , communities have more rules to define what finishing a game means than for other games.


I feel regarding save states they are not cheat(unpopular opinion I know) as long as they are not used for "scoring"or claiming to be the most skilled player in the world.They allow me and other players to explore games that would otherwise remain forgotten for many or not completed.

[WelshMegalodon]

Doesn't matter how you learn the game as long as it's understood that the high score is the eventual goal.

Nobody is going to shame you for having fun your way, so you can screw around with save states as much as you like, but if you can't beat the game without them, then you haven't actually beat the game. Simple as that.

If you don't need to have beat the game, that's fine, too - I'm sure everyone here has games they've never beat. Just don't act like you did when you really didn't.

I beat Jashin in January 2018 after a great deal of savestate practice, then netted the 1CC in June 2019. After that I got good enough at the game to 1CC it with some degree of consistency. Here's a run from September 2019 after I realized I had been playing with Vsync on for the past year and a half:

[mamboFoxtrot]

Its all fair game so long as you're honest about it. Not just in the sense of not saying you "beat" something you "technically didn't", as Welsh mentions, but also in recognizing how the use of extra/infinite credits, save-states, etc, colors your perception of a game. It can soften the difficulty of some parts, but it can also sometimes make other parts of a game seem more frustrating than they truly are if you are relying purely on brute-force trial and error.
So, your opinion on things will naturally differ from those who play by other rules (because different rules technically means a different game).

[Elixir]

No problem using savestates to practice or continuing to learn games.

[donluca]

There's also no problem in credit feeding if you enjoy playing the game that way.

It's also a nice way to try and improve: each playthrough you try and beat your previous best.

So, say you got through dodonpachi with 20 credits, aim at clearing it with 19, then 18 and so on. It's a nice and rewarding experience and a way to enjoy the game without necessarily going for the 1CC.

Eventually, if you keep at it, you'll see that you'll always get better and better and the 1CC might drop when you least expect it.

[To Far Away Times]

If using savestates to practice shmups is cheating, then so is learning to play music measure by measure instead of only playing the whole song from the start each time.

[Jonpachi]

YES

kidding

Play games as you like to play them. Life's short. Who cares how others play with their interactive toys?

[banjoted]

Dude, there's no shame in playing any game in a way that you enjoy! 1CC, 100CC, with one arm tied behind your back, or with broccoli in your pants - whatever works for you dude x

[leodash]

I just got QP Shooting - Dangerous from Steam sales. The game doesn't allow continue in the arcade mode, but it has a mode called 'conquest' where you can save progress in between stages. You can use save state to mimic that.

For games that are not checkpoints-based and allow continue, I just credit-feed them all the way, but I wouldn't say that "I beat the game", it's more like "I've seen the ending". That's all I ever did in 2019. It took me a COVID to attempt my first 1CC.

[Wilsoncqb1911]

I'm really proud of this forum for the everyone's responses. Games are about fun. However you have fun is fine. Many here strive for that 1CC but that's not the only way to have fun. Dont worry about it. If you truly want to 1CC a game I'm sure you can. I'm not very good and I've 1CCed a few. But also if you don't care, that's ok too.

[heli]

See it like : The games are worth the money, it took 100 years.

[Stevens]

No.

[Austin]

Yes, you should feel terrible about yourself and stop playing. Toss your systems and whatever else you game on in the trash. Light it all with gasoline and burn it. Burn it all.

In all seriousness.. no. They are just videogames, man. Don't overthink it. Play how you want.

[Stevens]

Austin's answer is funnier than mine.

[Rastan78]

My advice would be even as a beginner give 1 credit play a chance and see if it's fun for you. It doesn't mean you have to be a hardcore player or going for an all clear. Maybe you just want to try for Stage 4 on a credit. Or even Stage 2.

For me it's that tension and risk of failure that adds to the fun. I like this more than credit feeding even on game I'm no good at.

When you say using save states is not a cheat do you mean just to practice, or to clear a game? Using save states to clear a game is definitely a cheat. I happen to think that's totally fine for a casual playthrough if your goal is just to see the end and enjoy the game in an easier way. On a game with limited or no continues, or a game with tough checkpoints this might be the only way for a new player to clear it without putting in hours of practice. But it's definitely a game breaking cheat.

Using save states as an impromptu training mode with the intention of building your skills and knowledge to go back and get a legit 1cc or high score is another thing though.

[FRO]

YES

kidding

Play games as you like to play them. Life's short. Who cares how others play with their interactive toys?

THIS, every day, and twice on Sunday. Play how you want. If you're competing with others, of course you'll need to abide by the rules set forth in that setting, but there's nothing inherently wrong with playing a game the way you want to play it. Will the game punish you for doing so? Sometimes, yes, but if you're having fun with it, that's the goal. It is a game, after all.

[Rastan78]

Are there people who actually feel genuine guilt over not playing video games a certain way? If there are then yeah don't worry about it. Take a deep breath. They're just games.

My only pet peeve is when people post video of TAS or half speed inputs etc without labeling it as such. Or obviously when they lie and pretend it was legit play. Not that anyone on these forums would ever do something like that lol

There's this sort of grey area with a lot of YouTube content where a run will obviously be a TAS and they don't label it as normal gameplay or a TAS. Just sort of leaving it up to the viewer. It's pretty much a lie by omission. I'm sure they figure 90 percent of people will just assume regular gameplay as they don't know any better. A lot of the comments below will be like wow! Man, how did you get so good at this game?

If anything it's just annoying because I then go down this rabbit hole wasting time to try and figure out if it's real rather than just having it clearly say tool assisted. Save everyone the trouble and just label what you post accurately.

[pegboy]

Yeah I agree, don't have a problem with people doing fake runs as long as they post it and label it as such. When you start going down the Edusword and Perikles path is when problems arise.

[To Far Away Times]

First of all you should play games in a way that makes them fun for you and not care what internet people think.

But...

To get the most out of a shmup I think it's worthwhile to play for a 1CC. It's the unspoken genre requirement (along with arcade games). The games just take on a whole new meaning when played that way versus credit feeding. I can't imagine credit feeding these games brings much enjoyment beyond 30 minutes of explosions and then emptiness. When you learn the intricacies that's when the games really shine. That's how they were designed.

But then again, my first real shmup experience was 30 hours or so of Ikaruga on the Gamecube and I didn't know what a 1CC was. I just wanted to go for high letter grades on the individual stage scores. And playing it that way brought me a lot of enjoyment and I thought it was cool to have a shmup in my collection. So your mileage may vary.

[pegboy]

If you aren't playing for the 1cc, and by implication also for score, then what are you doing? I guess you are just fucking around, which is fine, but you aren't actually playing the game properly (aka trying to beat it). I honestly wouldn't even listen to someone about how good/bad or easy/hard a game is who doesn't at least play for the 1cc or score, as any opinions they have on the game are based on ignorance. Sounds elitist? I don't care, it's the truth.

[copy-paster]

Like all others said, play whatever you want. 1CC is not mandatory thing anyway, it's like extra challenge.

[BIL]

I am disgusted in you all. How can you tolerate FAKE 1CCs

(according to great shumper RECAP, who REAL 1CCd many a rugged game in his day like MAGIC CHASE and TOILET KID, a fake 1cc is one where you continued previously at some point in the past, and yes, if u looked over some1 else's shoulder in te arcade, even if u were just looking out window, ur a faker 2)

[Rastan78]

One of my favorite gaming memories in the arcade comes from credit feeding. We usually rode our bikes to our local arcade to play In the Hunt, Street Fighter Rainbow Edition hacked version with all the ridiculous broken moves added in, and Konami's Martial Champions. I came in there one day with my brother and another friend and they had Warriors of Fate on one of those big screen projection cabs. One of Capcom's all time best beat em ups. Of course we had never seen or heard of this game and were floored by it. We had no choice but to credit feed all the way to the end even if it cost 5 bucks. We were playing 2P and swapping out players every credit. Arguing over who had next. It was an epic experience at the time with the enormous screen and the cab volume going full blast.

I think they replaced it with Capcom's Punisher on the same humongous cab, which was possibly even more mindblowing at the time. Both of these games still hold up among the best in their genre. And we had absolutely no idea how to play them properly. Though we were having the time of our lives.

That being said, we were kids at the time being exposed to games that were totally new to us. Also the impact of the graphics and sound of 16 bit games was much bigger at the time being that it was the early 90s and Capcom CPS1 graphics were about as good as it could get. Add to that playing on crisp RGB monitors in brand spanking new cabs at a time when you were playing your SNES at home on an RF cable to an old burned in TV from the 1980s. You probably have an idea how good In the Hunt looked on that pristine arcade cab.

Today would credit feeding Warriors of Fate all the way to the end still be fun for me? Hell no. I would have to dedicate myself to actually learning the game for it to be any fun at all. So I see it as a continuum. You start out credit feeding and not knowing any better. But as this kind of innocent fun wears off if you have a real interest in arcade gaming you will probably move towards actually learning the games. If you can maintain that naive innocence and just have fun blowing stuff up and pumping in credits, more power to you. But over time you will be missing out on a lot that arcade games have to offer.

[Rastan78]

I am disgusted in you all. How can you tolerate FAKE 1CCs

(according to great shumper RECAP, who REAL 1CCd many a rugged game in his day like MAGIC CHASE and TOILET KID, a fake 1cc is one where you continued previously at some point in the past, and yes, if u looked over some1 else's shoulder in te arcade, even if u were just looking out window, ur a faker 2)

The only real 1cc is literally the first credit you have ever played without reading the manual or ever watching another player. If you die once, delete the game, sell the cart or PCB. You are done. Your chance at ever getting a true 1cc is now over for the rest of your life.

[BIL]

Recap <3 Another eternal hit, Akumajou Dracula: CHI NO FLAMEWAR (■｀W´■)

One of my favorite gaming memories in the arcade comes from credit feeding. We usually rode our bikes to our local arcade to play In the Hunt, Street Fighter Rainbow Edition hacked version with all the ridiculous broken moves added in, and Konami's Martial Champions. I came in there one day with my brother and another friend and they had Warriors of Fate on one of those big screen projection cabs. One of Capcom's all time best beat em ups. Of course we had never seen or heard of this game and were floored by it. We had no choice but to credit feed all the way to the end even if it cost 5 bucks. We were playing 2P and swapping out players every credit. Arguing over who had next. It was an epic experience at the time with the enormous screen and the cab volume going full blast.

I think they replaced it with Capcom's Punisher on the same humongous cab, which was possibly even more mindblowing at the time. Both of these games still hold up among the best in their genre. And we had absolutely no idea how to play them properly. Though we were having the time of our lives.

Beautifully put We'd similar experiences with Sunset Riders BITD, that 4P cab was a NES Contra kid's dream (and just like WOF/Punisher, the underlying game is AAA1 rock-solid).

Today would credit feeding Warriors of Fate all the way to the end still be fun for me? Hell no. I would have to dedicate myself to actually learning the game for it to be any fun at all. So I see it as a continuum. You start out credit feeding and not knowing any better. But as this kind of innocent fun wears off if you have a real interest in arcade gaming you will probably move towards actually learning the games.

Nail/head.

Sadly (to go on a tangent), I think this is also why classic arcade gaming will always be niche at most, going forward - what's a hobby to some will be a job of work to most. It's nobody's fault, just the reality in a universe with finite amounts of free time and energy, and vastly more advanced leisure technology than these games' 80s/90s heyday.

This is why I regard archival specialists like M2 and Hamster - not to be confused with nostalgia merchants like Digital Eclipse - so highly. It's not like 99% of us got everything we could out of these games when they were in arcades or even now they're (mostly) in MAME. It's good to have serious professionals keeping them on modern systems for those of us who still want to get to grips with them.

[Rastan78]

I remember how on those 4p cabs one player would get screwed by the enormously awkward button layout. They came up with some interesting ways to shoehorn 4 control sets onto the panel. The guy on 4p would basically be standing in front of the bathroom door looking at the screen out of the corner of his eye. Classic.

At least he could get a good view of the ridiculous Konami cabinet art complete with real actors in costumes.

As far as games becoming too much like work, I remember even Shinobu Yagawa said he thought this would lead to the death of the genre. The interesting thing now is that there are so many popular indie games that have a relatively punishing gameplay style. I enjoyed games like Hollow Knight and Celeste. Although Cuphead I didn't think was all that well designed in spite of the cool aesthetic. Plenty of tough roguelike games today with a ton of players like Dead Cells etc. I don't think many of these types of games center around high scores though.

[Rastan78]

For the love of God, that layout. Maybe Hori will release a limited edition joystick with this exact config. Only problem is the buttons are too close together. I like at least 18 inches between jump and shot. That way I can hold down shot and hit jump with my elbow and/or forehead.

[BIL]

Button/stick placements modelled on spread pattern from an authentic 1880s Winchester fired into a barn door at fifty yards!

[Rastan78]

It doesn't get more authentic than that. You can practically smell the gunpowder.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What the heck is with that cab?? That can't possibly be an official cab layout.