I HATE shmups with Infinite continues, you can't turn off...

[Nei First]

I just can't stand it when shmup games or any sort of shoot'em ups have infinite continues, you can't turn off. I hate it when companies do this.

It really ruines my experience, it goes "directly against" the whole fun of "challenge", and challenge is what all good shmups essentially must have, so what's the point then?
Fair enough, some people may not be able to get through the game without them, so why don't they make the damn thing an option?

I know some people say if you don't like it, you should just simply end the game yourself when you feel you've used up enough credit. But that doesn't work for me..... What, I manage to get halfway through a game, and after all that.... You seriously think I'm about to force "myself" to turn off the power and end the game, "myself", and start all over. Knowning full well I could just "easily" continue..... Where's the fun in that?

Seriously I hate infinite continues, but if they're gonna put them in they should at least make it an option, otherwise they shouldn't even bother.

Do you feel me on this one, or do you have another point of view?

[shiftace]

I think you just need more self control.

[Rob]

What a nonissue! You want a challenge, you don't want the credits there, but you use them because you can't help yourself despite the fact that it ruins the fun. I don't get it.

Unlockable credits are just replay value for casual players. I'm glad when freeplay is open from the start, so I can use however many or few as I want. Why would making it an option make a difference? You can stop whenever you want and don't have to toggle an option if you want to play more or less than usual. Self control!

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Self control!!
How hard is it to keep track of one credit anyway!?

[Cthulhu]

I don't mind infinite credits. I don't have enough time or enough patience to practice many shmups to the 1CC point. I love DDP:DOJ, and I just try to improve by beating it on "as few credits as possible." It's a whole lot more fun for me that way.

I think the "start at 3 and work up" credits setup in Shiki 2 and Ikaruga works quite well. It's a nice middle ground between having to practice a lot and being able to play as you like.

[Nei First]

I don't think it's so much self control, and I'm not trying to make a HUGE deal out of it, sorry I didn't mean to give that impression.

Of course it will make a difference to have the option, those people who like to play through with a limited number of credits won't have to worry about counting or trying to continue, the game will just end.

These are arcade games, playing with limited credit is a major point of the fun. It's the reason why you try hard to beat the games in the first place. Imagine playing arcades with unlimited credit?

Or any type of game? You wouldn't try nearly as hard.

[Rob]

those people who like to play through with a limited number of credits won't have to worry about counting or trying to continue, the game will just end.

It's pretty standard practice for games to add a number to the final digit of the score up to 9.

The only reason I could see for limiting credits is to forego lengthy continue countdowns. I do hate having to pound a button 20 times to get on with it. They should really consider replacing the countdowns with "continue: yes - no" since time is no longer an issue.

[alpha5099]

Considering I pretty much universally stop playing once the Continue? screen comes up, I find freeplay a non-issue in shmups. In fact, in the games that do allow you to pick the number of credits, I'll set it to 1 so it's an automatic game over.

I do find infinite credits bothersome in beat 'em ups, though. I don't have a one credit philosopher for beat 'em ups, and I doubt I ever will. Well, maybe if I could get very close to a 1CC, I'd abstain from continueing, but if my game is over by level 2, I'll continue. But yes, I know what you mean, freeplay can kill a game if you do use the credits.

Everyone else is just being sore, it is in fact hard to abstain from continueing when it's just so easier. It's a different matter when money is in question, you have to get the quarter out and what-not, but if it's just a press of a button away, it can be tough to say no.

[Nei First]

those people who like to play through with a limited number of credits won't have to worry about counting or trying to continue, the game will just end.

It's pretty standard practice for games to add a number to the final digit of the score up to 9..

I don't have a problem with that one, adding an extra credit after a score helps anyway. As long as there's a limit. It's when you get infinite continues right off the bat with no way of changing it, that's what I don't like.

The only reason I could see for limiting credits is to forego lengthy continue countdowns. I do hate having to pound a button 20 times to get on with it. They should really consider replacing the countdowns with "continue: yes - no" since time is no longer an issue.

Agreed, that would make countdowns alot easier.

alpha5099: Yeah, that's how I feel man. If there was an option, I think that would solve all the problems, it's not exactly hard for the developers to implement them in their games.

[CMoon]

I just can't stand it when shmup games or any sort of shoot'em ups have infinite continues, you can't turn off. I hate it when companies do this.

It really ruines my experience, it goes "directly against" the whole fun of "challenge", and challenge is what all good shmups essentially must have, so what's the point then?

Wow! That eliminates every game by Raizing, Cave, Psikyo, Takumi, Seibu, etc. etc. etc.

It itsn't that I don't hear your complaint, but understand what you are asking for is a crutch. The quality of the game should NEVER be impuned because it gives you the option to credit feed. I question more the player who feels they've beaten a game by credit feeding it (haha, mars matrix isn't too hard!)

[Nei First]

I just can't stand it when shmup games or any sort of shoot'em ups have infinite continues, you can't turn off. I hate it when companies do this.

It really ruines my experience, it goes "directly against" the whole fun of "challenge", and challenge is what all good shmups essentially must have, so what's the point then?

Wow! That eliminates every game by Raizing, Cave, Psikyo, Takumi, Seibu, etc. etc. etc.

It itsn't that I don't hear your complaint, but understand what you are asking for is a crutch. The quality of the game should NEVER be impuned because it gives you the option to credit feed. I question more the player who feels they've beaten a game by credit feeding it (haha, mars matrix isn't too hard!)

Giving the "option" to credit feed is exactly what I want. Giving you "no choice" but to credit feed, and asking people like me to force themselves not to play, is the problem.

[Rob]

But, see, you do have a choice.

[matt]

Giving the "option" to credit feed is exactly what I want. Giving you "no choice" but to credit feed, and asking people like me to force themselves not to play, is the problem.

Most of my games have a credit-feeding option. I just choose not to use it. So can you!

Admitting that you have a problem is the first step towards recovery.

[Eltrotraw]

I personally don't see the problem.. Like others mentioned before, it's all about self-control.

I've tried to 1CC Blazing Star before, and I don't see any reason not to continue after dying in Gradius/Pulstar/R-Type especially after a cheap obstacle you did not expect(except for some reason to further challenge yourself even more).

[Shatterhand]

I hate when you can't turn off freeplay only when I play with 2 players, and the 2nd player credit feed too much.

This reminds me once a friend of mine was playing Salamander 2 here at my home, and he was crediting feed like hell. I just begun to tease him "Stop that", and stuff like that.. I was really pissed because he was reaching levels I hadn't seen before, and spoiling my surprise. Then I said "Well, if you keep doing this, you'll end up finishing the game. Then you will feel like you acomplished nothing, and will put the game away, and never play this great game again... you are just wasting your time"

At this point, he quit credit feed.

[cigsthecat]

I really don't see how this could possibly be a serious issue.

It is nice to be able to turn them off on a PCB so I can start over quicker though.

[raiden]

I think the problem originates from the concept of "beating the game with as little credits as possible". By switching to "trying to get as far as possible with one credit" or "playing for score" continues just don´t make any sense anymore. They may be there, but you don´t get tempted to use them because everything you play after a continue doesn´t count anyway. So the question is, why do you want to clear the game so much you´re willing to use continues? Maybe you find it boring only to see the first 3 levels each time you play. But why is it so important which levels you see? If shmups are concerned with challenge, like you said yourself, shouldn´t the progress you´re making be the focus of your concern? You can watch that progress very well by limiting yourself to 1 credit. By playing through the whole game with continues, you don´t learn it as well as by playing from the start.

[neorichieb1971]

The only thing bad about credit feeding is when 2 players want to play by different rules.

Like me and my step son.. He's useless at these types of games but enjoys them. I give up after 1 credit but he's already used 25 up by that time.

Also I cannot, just cannot stand to watch people play shmups that credit feed. Its because they are trying not to die, but dying anyway and just continuing regardless. No skill, no determination and that really kills off any viewing pleasure I get from shmups.

Self control is a very big part of shmupping.. I mean these games are not easy anymore. Have they ever been easy?

I agree though, developers should have credits to unlock.. if seeing the end is the point of the exercise, you can usually do it in about 25-30 minutes and its not worth the purchase price of $30+.

[IlMrm]

The only reason I could see for limiting credits is to forego lengthy continue countdowns. I do hate having to pound a button 20 times to get on with it.

That gives me time for a profanity-laced tirade.

[Blade]

Jeeze, just let it count to Zero like most normal people...

[iatneH]

There's a self-control thing yes, but it's annoying for something like the PS2 Strikers 1945 pack. When you die, the fire button makes you continue! This is BAD if you die while you're tapping the fire button! Same deal with the Yes/No option. What's the default option going to be if you die while tapping?

For personal play on consoles, I guess it's not that big a deal, but with free play available at the beginning (or even time-released), it really gives the general gaming population the wrong idea about shooters.
Think of all the people on GameFAQs who said Ikaruga is easy because you can beat it after 7 hours and you can sell it on eBay after that. These very people (although unlikely to play the following game) would probably say that DoDonPachi dai-ou-jou is even easier because you can beat it in half an hour. I can only keep saying that they didn't beat the game, but the game beat them as many times as they continued, as in, the game claimed several more times the number of lives from you as the developers deemed necessary to beat the game.
The problem is, any way this issue is handled leads to a bad rep for shooters. Give them infinite continues, they'll misunderstand the whole point of improving the personal high score. Limit their continues, they'll whine and moan about how hard the games are (not to mention... dude wtf it deossnt' even save ur progerss u hav eto start form teh begining every tiem!!!)

[Cthulhu]

Maybe you find it boring only to see the first 3 levels each time you play. But why is it so important which levels you see? If shmups are concerned with challenge, like you said yourself, shouldn´t the progress you´re making be the focus of your concern?

For some games I make a point of "improving." I play from the beginning each time, and slowly (or quickly for a select few games) improve my skills.

But other games I don't really care if I "master." I just like playing through them. Blasting through and seeing how few credits I can beat it on. There's still an element of "personal challenge and improvement" there, but it's not my goal. The goal is just to have fun, not to memorize an entire game. With games like R-Type, Pulstar, Image Fight, Undead Line, and other REALLY difficult games, I'd drop the game almost instantly if I didn't continue. Image Fight is nigh-impossible WITH contiuing.

One thing I really, really like in shmups that a lot of people don't is continue points. Well placed ones only, of course. *EVIL GLARE AT R-TYPE* With those I can continue to my heart's content and I still get a real sense of accomplishment when I make progress.

[iatneH]

Haha, funny you mention Image Fight... the review for the PCE version at GameFAQs pissed me off to no end, the guy who wrote it knows nothing!

... and personally I thought the checkpoints in R-Type were quite well-placed...

[Nei First]

I think the problem originates from the concept of "beating the game with as little credits as possible". By switching to "trying to get as far as possible with one credit" or "playing for score" continues just don´t make any sense anymore. They may be there, but you don´t get tempted to use them because everything you play after a continue doesn´t count anyway. So the question is, why do you want to clear the game so much you´re willing to use continues? Maybe you find it boring only to see the first 3 levels each time you play. But why is it so important which levels you see? If shmups are concerned with challenge, like you said yourself, shouldn´t the progress you´re making be the focus of your concern? You can watch that progress very well by limiting yourself to 1 credit. By playing through the whole game with continues, you don´t learn it as well as by playing from the start.

Well.... Yeah, I guess having unlimited continues doesn't matter, if whatever you do after you continue doesn't count to you. I agree with what iatneH said about continues limited/unlimited, do change some peoples ideas about playing shmups.

Raiden, if you're saying it depends on the reasons why you play in the first place, I think you hit a major point there.

I do play for score but not intially. No I usually take the scoring seriously after I've beaten or nearly beaten the game. My first enjoyment comes from trying to survive through the levels and the challenge of beating the bossess, knowing that if I don't play as best as I can, I'll soon die and have to start all over.

The panic feeling I get when trying to survive a hard boss fight, on my last few credits is really fun for me. It makes the battles feel epic, and I get a sense of accomplishment if I get through it. In this case with having infinite continues, that feeling is gone along with my will, to try my best all the time. I'm like "f**k it why all the effort, If I die so what I'll just comeback, and continue where I left off."

[Ghegs]

The panic feeling I get when trying to survive a hard boss fight, on my last few credits is really fun for me. It makes the battles feel epic, and I get a sense of accomplishment if I get through it. In this case with having infinite continues, that feeling is gone along with my will, to try my best all the time. I'm like "f**k it why all the effort, If I die so what I'll just comeback, and continue where I left off."

Just imagine the epicness of surviving a hard boss on your last life as opposed to still having few credits left.

[SheSaidDutch]

I just can't stand it when shmup games or any sort of shoot'em ups have infinite continues, you can't turn off.

Do you feel me on this one, or do you have another point of view?

I concur 100% on this myself

I posted about this onthe complaints thread afew months back

I'm with you for sure man.

[SFKhoa]

For me, having a credit limit just motivates me to play more and more.

Sure, I don't mind Free Play that much, but the only thing that concerns me is those that take advantage of it and overuse it like there's no tomorrow.

i.e BOMB BOMB *dies* BOMB BOMB *dies* Continue? *presses start* and start the cycle from the beginning repeatedly. (My brother does that a lot, and save states...ESPECIALLY save states.. >_<)

[llabnip]

Anything more than 1 credit is too much.

My only (very minor) gripe is that I'd love for all scrolling shooters to be able to configure continues off so I don't have to wait the 10 count (hitting the fire button often accelerates this). A second credit is taboo.

If you are a scrolling shooter fan, the first credit is your challenge. Credits 2-infinity are for casual players of the game.

No I usually take the scoring seriously after I've beaten or nearly beaten the game

Beating a shooter not only implies 1 credit, it requires it.

[sffan]

I think the problem originates from the concept of "beating the game with as little credits as possible". By switching to "trying to get as far as possible with one credit" or "playing for score" continues just don´t make any sense anymore. They may be there, but you don´t get tempted to use them because everything you play after a continue doesn´t count anyway. So the question is, why do you want to clear the game so much you´re willing to use continues? Maybe you find it boring only to see the first 3 levels each time you play. But why is it so important which levels you see? If shmups are concerned with challenge, like you said yourself, shouldn´t the progress you´re making be the focus of your concern? You can watch that progress very well by limiting yourself to 1 credit. By playing through the whole game with continues, you don´t learn it as well as by playing from the start.

This is exactly my philosophy. Well said.

[Recap]

I think the problem originates from the concept of "beating the game with as little credits as possible". By switching to "trying to get as far as possible with one credit" or "playing for score" continues just don´t make any sense anymore. They may be there, but you don´t get tempted to use them because everything you play after a continue doesn´t count anyway. So the question is, why do you want to clear the game so much you´re willing to use continues? Maybe you find it boring only to see the first 3 levels each time you play. But why is it so important which levels you see? If shmups are concerned with challenge, like you said yourself, shouldn´t the progress you´re making be the focus of your concern? You can watch that progress very well by limiting yourself to 1 credit. By playing through the whole game with continues, you don´t learn it as well as by playing from the start.

This is exactly my philosophy. Well said.

Absolutely. In fact, this discussion is lame. Arcade-style games are not RPG's. Is that simple. The problem is that people use to forget why the several/infinite credits option is there - it's a coin-ops' legacy, a feature to make the player put more money, but not the true way to play an arcade-style game. Any, if you ask me. And self-disciplining is not really hard once you understand it.

But since I'm feeling as if I was repeating again, I'm just going to ask - how many of the people here NEVER use more than one credit per player? I'm curious about all those 1-credit-complete players; does it come only after lots of credit-feed "just-to-learn-that-pattern" plays? 'Cause you know, it's NOT the same...

Indeed, shouldn't we be speaking about two types of 1CC's, the straight 1CC's and the fake ones? Just wondering.