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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:41 pm 


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I haven't algorithmically double-checked or anything, but from experience the only situation where having the initials reset at A is a good thing is if your initials have the first and last letter be very close to A, and the second letter in the middle of the list of letters (and that's with wrap-around, since not having it is in itself yet another can of worms with even more problems) Every other situation is wasting your time by having to go back from A all the time. So I don't see why you're titlted at other people being able to input their initials faster.

"An old arcade game did it" is also never a good justification for anything, as a game designer you have to think about whether the implementation makes sense in itself or not. Old arcade games forced you to mash like crazy and risk RSI for no damn reason just to shoot at a decent rate, old arcade games did not have ways to select a specific stage or boss to practice it, old arcade games did not have button rebinds, and so on and so forth. Yet all those convenience features are extremely welcome nowadays (if they even shouldn't actually be mandatory).

Speaking of those features, the dev for this game is pretty awesome and added a bunch of useful QoL features in that vein which is very commendable for sure. :)
ATTRACTS wrote:
This really doesn't hold a candle to Truxton/Tatsujin 1 or 2 in any real way. There is no pacing[...]

It is true that Crisis Wing lacks the ground enemies and some other stuff like that, but overall I found it to actually be way better than those two Toaplan games, which are the ones with no pacing.
There still is a bit of padded reptition in CW (and stage 4 is too long for me) but never to the same amount, and the added medal chaining system gives you something else to do as well, which makes some of the reused enemy waves still fun to fight as you have to pay attention to those item spawns.
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:54 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:
I just meant that when you're leveling up, collecting the wrong one will not help you progress your power level upwards.


Yeah, there's some precedent in older shmups for this sort of thing where swapping your weapon doesn't give you a powerup. You have to keep grabbing the same weapon type to get any powerups, which can be tricky in a game that has multiple powerup types or where the powerup icon cycles between different weapons. It's generally more player friendly if the powerup always increases your weapon level, whether or not you switch weapons, but it's not necessarily the kiss of death in a game if it doesn't have that.
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:27 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:
Call me crazy, but I think a shmup should only make me face the exact same pattern once or maybe twice in a game. Iterations on patterns are fine, but the same one with no changes? That's recycling. Crisis Wing is full of it, but so are the games that inspired it. The game is about twice the length I think it should be.

Especially in stage 3 (the last one I've managed to get into within my ~90 minutes of playing) these yellow enemies come in the same (?) pattern way to often.
"... but so are the games that inspired it." : Never played Ou but I cleared this year the MD version of the first Tatsujin and I think, the enemy patterns are very destinct and clever designed and there is also very few repetition. But Tatsujin Ou is ts clearly the main inspiration and not the first one so its possibly ok this way I guess ^^

M.Knight wrote:
ATTRACTS wrote:
This really doesn't hold a candle to Truxton/Tatsujin 1 or 2 in any real way. There is no pacing[...]

It is true that Crisis Wing lacks the ground enemies and some other stuff like that, but overall I found it to actually be way better than those two Toaplan games, which are the ones with no pacing.
There still is a bit of padded reptition in CW (and stage 4 is too long for me) but never to the same amount, and the added medal chaining system gives you something else to do as well, which makes some of the reused enemy waves still fun to fight as you have to pay attention to those item spawns.

What do you mean with pacing? Tatsujin 1 is really well done in terms of its chereography. Even if there are some areas whith not as much to do if you are powered up.

I bought the switch version and had fun with it (after >2h). What I noticed was, that the movement/framerate is sometimes a bit odd. When there are a bit more enemies and I move a bit around, there seems to be some micro slo mos or lags around but I am not quite shure, what it is.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, I think, that the green weapon is the most useful. The red one does low damage on the enemies because even the smallest need some more bullets before they are destroyed, so it doesnt work the way as in most shooters where you can get many small enemies down with a whide spread weapon like this. The blue one needs to do even more damage to come up with its low fire rate. But possibly I will think different after more hours of playing.

But I really like the release date of this game. It helps to pass the time till m2 releases tatsujin Ou for the switch ^^
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:35 pm 



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I think Blue is probably the best at max power (because of the number of missiles spawned and the fact they deal high damage in a game with bullet sponge enemies), but it takes a very long time to power up in Crisis Wing. Power up spawns are not frequent in certain levels. At low levels, Blue fires too infrequently to be worth much. Red at low levels suffers from low damage in a game with bullet sponge enemies. You won't be killing anything with the outer red shots and pretty much have to point blank.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:40 pm 


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Angry Hina wrote:
What do you mean with pacing? Tatsujin 1 is really well done in terms of its chereography. Even if there are some areas whith not as much to do if you are powered up.

Agreed. Truxton is paced fine with memorable bits in every stage. Would want to know what he means by "no pacing" with Truxton 1. Only the second one feels like a drag.

Also, Crisis Wing isn't "twice the length it should be". Not even close. Otherwise it wouldn't be a Toaplan, it would be a Cave or whatever. The game length is fine, and I'm glad he included a final stage cause according to his notes the sixth stage would be the last.

I'm surprised this game doesn't seem well received around here, there isn't even a hi score thread. I enjoyed it a lot, overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:34 pm 



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tbh I kinda went overboard with the stage 4 length :D
Once it was finished I did clock the run and it was approx. 7 minutes and I was a bit like "Oops. this is rather lengthy".
But I decided to keep it as it is since I felt the stage had a lot of character - the heavier music track also emphasizes the different pacing vs. the other levels.

Also stages 6 and 7 were swapped since I did realize the "stage 6" was more demanding than "7" and they got swapped.
The skull was meant to be the last boss so the small hyper aggressive last boss was added after the stage switch-a-roo.

The main menu also had 3 towers instead of the docked giant cruiser. I thought it was cool for to let people to notice that the st7 boss is the thing from the main menu.


Last edited by pieslice on Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:38 pm 



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DenimDemon wrote:

Sometimes... with these kind of "homage" games at the end of the day i wonder why iam not playing the real deal instead? I felt that already quite a few times... But I love Toaplan use of color and this one looks very reminiscent.

I've only played Truxton a little bit and I wonder how I'd perceive Crisis Wing differently otherwise. That kind of thought's crossed my mind before, for example Shadow Gangs is a straight-up Shinobi clone and it's great but I wonder how it looks to somebody who's never played Shinobi before.

Angry Hina wrote:
I bought the switch version and had fun with it (after >2h). What I noticed was, that the movement/framerate is sometimes a bit odd. When there are a bit more enemies and I move a bit around, there seems to be some micro slo mos or lags around but I am not quite shure, what it is.

Same here. Wasn't sure how much was real and how much I was imagining. Does not seem to be there all the time. Anyway, I really like the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 pm 



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Sima Tuna wrote:
I think Blue is probably the best at max power (because of the number of missiles spawned and the fact they deal high damage in a game with bullet sponge enemies), but it takes a very long time to power up in Crisis Wing. Power up spawns are not frequent in certain levels. At low levels, Blue fires too infrequently to be worth much. Red at low levels suffers from low damage in a game with bullet sponge enemies. You won't be killing anything with the outer red shots and pretty much have to point blank.


To level with the weapon data I'll just share this:

• At base level the Green weapon has the highest DPS
• Fully powered up Blue has the highest overall DPS
• Point-blanking power level 2 or 3 Red has more DPS than fully powered Green
• A Blue missile will take down any zako in single hit
• Green has the lowest growth potential vs. any other weapon but it deals the most consistent damage


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:51 pm 


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Thanks for the Info.
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:14 pm 


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Thanks a lot for this info!
It looks like there is some interesting balance in the weapons, and depending on your power level you might want to go with one rather than another. That's cool!

Angry Hina wrote:
What do you mean with pacing? Tatsujin 1 is really well done in terms of its chereography. Even if there are some areas whith not as much to do if you are powered up.

I've explained why I think the game has awful flow and feel here when I first tried it. I'm not seeing any good choreography, just boredom followed by ultra spongy euroshmup midbosses. Even you admit that there's areas with not much to do, which is possibly one of the worst flaws a shmup can have, having nothing interesting happening. Maybe the later stages are slightly better (I doubt it) but even just the opening (which should be designed to make people want to keep playing the game) is incredibly bad : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwiuPUnAsg
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:22 pm 


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To be fair.. there's a decade between those two games. And a rather formative decade at that.
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:10 am 


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Well, this video shows nothing but another presentation of those games video wise. It seems that there is nothing much to do on the right as well. Its just that the player wants to do more. Ok, when playing for score possibly there is a reason for playing this way. In my Tatsujin 1ccs I've done as well a little entertaining game by trying to kill the first enemies as close as possible (as you can see here). And the first two mid sized enemies have the right amount of health for that what they are able to do on screen. In melee range they can stand it just about three seconds each.
I never felt, that some enemies can take to much bullets. Its quite perfectly balanced I guess.

And yes, I've said, that there is sometimes not so much to do if your powered up. But if you want to be powered up in the lets say fifth stage, you have to deal with the whole game in low power mode, because you have to learn it bit by bit obviously. The most "emptiness" is in stage 4 but if you mess up, this seems to be emptiness turns into a really hard stage with tons of things you have to recognize. And if you haven't learned every little enemy that comes out in a unusual spot or the position of the tanks which can shoot you off the sky superfast, you won't have much time in overpowered mode.

And in the fifth stage, you have to be super aware of everything and its very hard to keep your weapon power beyond all those waves. The players who look like they are bored within some parts are mostly really aware and have memorized in the past the whole stage with low power for being able to recover even on these areas. @Mycophobia has spoken about "chill parts" but these gets only chill if you've played the game very long because if you forget one single enemy if can quickly be over and without the higher firepower most parts in this game are NOT chill.

And in your text you've linked, you only write about the 1st stage and it seems that you have not compared the game with others vertical STGs in the year 89. Its stage design is possibly one of the best in its time and age. And it surely was an inspiration for many later games and companies so this quote is kinda off:
Quote:
Maybe they made some good games afterwards like Outzone or Batsugun but overall I am very happy they went under because such sluggish and badly designed shmups don't deserve any success in the arcades, and also because their bankrupcy gave us CAVE and Raizing whose shmups are for the most part much better paced. Same goes for Takumi and Gazelle's Air Gallet.

And Tatsujin was very successful I guess.

And the other points... I don't know... 5 minutes are to long for a first stage? Its long for a cave style danmaku but many other shooters have 1st stages around this number. Its a positive thing when you see how hard the second stage becomes and how much players will only have fun with the first one :D

Quote:
-Actually, the entire first stage (and maybe the whole game?)'s level design is like that : tons of piss-easy enemies that are sent in extremely repetitive and boring waves and all of a sudden you've got one enemy that is much beefier, can move pretty low on the screen to point blank you, and who spawns with a few pals of his to make you panic and mess up. And then back to boring enemy waves. There is zero logical progression with increasing difficulty like in a well designed shmup. Nothing here makes sense. Besides, some of the midbosses have attacks with two long shots that look like you can get between them but it's impossible given your gigantic hitbox.

Its a but much to say such things if you haven't played much beyond stage 1. Gigantic hitboxes are normal in these days. For my 1cc I had to study these piss easy enemies very well because they are sometimes a larger threat than the midbosses. And its sometimes not much of a difference compared to some modern danmakus where there are nearly harmless popcorn enemies in between to let you keep your score chain.

Quote:
-Right after that, you've got two mid-boss looking enemies with a billion HP. If you don't have a powerful autofire, the fight lasts forever. I was so fed up with them that I ended up bombing them just to make them leave my sight but even that wasn't enough.


nearly all players here play with autofire, right? as mentioned earlier, they do not stand that much bullets, if you know how to fight them. eaching you to use patterns and strategies for even the earlier enemies is a very good thin within a STG.

Quote:
Even the first few waves in the game only consist of a single harmless enemy that spawns on the left, then another one the right, and then another one the left, over and over again like 15 times. Wow, what an impressive way to get fired up for the rest of the game.

Its quite normal to have some more boring minutes in the first stages of many shooters. I can not say its much fun to play it so much till you get a 1cc but this was not much of a difference in other shooters. And this part is like the whole game designed for further loop. In the second loop even this part gets a little bit dangerous. And I hold it here like Mycophobia: its a nearly perfect beginning for someone who's playing this game/a game like this the first time. And even in ths 1st stage the end of it gets much harder and gives you a strong foe at the end of it.

But Tatsujin is surely not a game for everyone so its ok, that you don't like it. In the past I didn't liked it either. But just because of the difficulty after the first stage. Even then I adored it for its stage design (especially after playing Fireshark which lacks in these terms a bit).
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:37 am 


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Didn't know rejoicing Toaplan's death was a thing. Toaplan 4 ever you cowards.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:26 pm 


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M.Knight wrote:
Maybe the later stages are slightly better (I doubt it) but even just the opening (which should be designed to make people want to keep playing the game) is incredibly bad : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwiuPUnAsg


I don't disagree with you that the game-feel on Tatsujin is rather stiff, especially by more modern standards. But yeah, that comparison video is rather facile - you could have sat still on the Dangun side, senselessly bombed and died just like you did on the Tatsujin side.

I realize you're taking a piss, but the comparison falls flat regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:08 pm 



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The point is you don't have to move. Dangun Feveron gives you shit to actually do, with the disco guys falling for score. Crisis Wing also gives you shit to do, with the falling point items (though they don't fall as consistently as I would prefer). Both games engage your brain more. Toaplan is like, sit here and shoot, and fall asleep, and then suddenly 10 homing enemies appear and give a hellish bullet spread while chasing you faster than your ship can move, to ensure you die (i'm thinking of a famous blue zako rush checkpoint in tatsujin-ou). So then you die and you have to memo that part of the level to get past it. Then the game goes back to easy patterns for a little while until you fall asleep so it can kill you with a new meme trap.

Just my opinion, but I think a shmup should have gradually-increasing difficulty both overall and per stage. But at least the moment-to-moment gameplay should increase in difficulty within the level, culminating in the boss. Toaplan seems to embody the wild difficulty spikes of certain older arcade games. I realize most arcade games have a difficulty spike at level 3, to get you off the cab. But I'm not talking about that. I mean wild difficulty spikes within the same level.

I also generally hate games where recovery feels like bullshit. Crisis Wing does an ok job with checkpoint recovery, since you can get to level 1 power with a single powerup, and level 1 power is good enough. Although the powerups don't drop as often as I think they should (sometimes they drop a lot and sometimes there are big stretches without any.) But in a lot of toaplan shmups (and also in Raiden,) there are so many power levels that going back to level 0 at a later checkpoint feels like a kiss of death for your run. I guess a point in favor of Raiden would be the laser? Also I think Raiden powerups drop more frequently than Tatsujin-Out powerups, but I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:22 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:
The point is you don't have to move.


I just tested it myself with Dangun, not touching the controls at all and holding down the shot button - made it 40 seconds into the first stage without getting touched. Horrible game, right?

Don't get me wrong, I like Dangun more than Tatsujin, too - that's not what I was trying to say. That video just doesn't demonstrate anything interesting, much less prove a point about the quality of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:37 pm 


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Sima Tuna gets it.

Yeah the point of the video is not that bullets won't hit the player, but that there is barely anything interesting to do no matter what (in Dangun you will miss out on the disco men and won't spawn additional waves as fast, the game will make you know you're missing out, unless you love dissonant piano clangs lol), there is some insane enemy recycling (the same boring popcorn 15 times in a row with no variation whatsoever, very lazy copypaste which is 100% indefensible), and on top of that the bomb damage is incredibly bad. (Yes, that skull bomb everyone loves is just as weak as most other Toaplan bombs, shocker)

I could have put videos of even older games than Tatsujin such as Gradius instead of Feveron, it would be relatively similar. You instantly have to grab power ups and start making decisions as to your loadout of choice. And Crisis Wing here is immediately more engaging thanks to the medal spawns which really complement the rhythm of the waves.

Yeah I only played stage 1 in Tatsujin, and that was enough to deter me from the rest of the game. Trap summed up this stance better than me a bit later in that other thread :
trap15 wrote:
I do feel like Tatsujin gets slightly better after stage 1, but I don't care because I never in my life want to play that first stage ever again.

In comparison my best run in Crisis Wing made it to boss 5. The stage 4 length issue is more something that makes me wary of doing other runs again, I don't even think it felt that annoying while actually playing it the first time around, but I can't remember for sure. Either way, it was way better than my experience with just the first level in Tatsujin.
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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:17 am 


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pieslice wrote:
Also stages 6 and 7 were swapped since I did realize the "stage 6" was more demanding than "7" and they got swapped.
The skull was meant to be the last boss so the small hyper aggressive last boss was added after the stage switch-a-roo.


Glad you added your own Hibachi after the switch-a-roo. He's a lot of fun to fight and is a climatic battle when going for the 1cc. That last pattern which looks BlackheartMKII inspired seems perfect to conquer on the case you have no bombs and no extends left, felt like a rush when I made it out alive. Getting that "Completed" message on the screen in one credit and the 1cc achievement popping up was one of the best sensations I had in a while playing games, lol


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:56 pm 



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I bought your game on ps5 pieslice and I really like it but I can't beat the second boss for some reason... the boss stop shooting after a while and turn invincible.... I can shoot him for 5 minutes and he just never dies.

I tried restarting from the last checkpoint and it still does the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:37 am 



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kevenz wrote:
I bought your game on ps5 pieslice and I really like it but I can't beat the second boss for some reason... the boss stop shooting after a while and turn invincible.... I can shoot him for 5 minutes and he just never dies.

I tried restarting from the last checkpoint and it still does the same thing.


PS5 uses the PS4 binary. Certain degree of PS5 devices have compatibility issues when cross-playing PS4 binaries. In Crisis Wing they might introduce some weird bugs and soft locks (rare) or introduce some input lag (more common).
Same issues have been reported with other games such has Gleylancer or Gynoug. Also I've experienced Rocket League crashing often (in a worst case after 2 matches) on PS5 (it is PS4 binary as well).

The exact info on what triggers these issues is unknown. Can you give me your specs, eg. tv refresh rate and do you use a 4k TV?
I have a hunch feeling this is a firmware issue in PS5 and if we can gather more info on incompatible configurations we could pass this information forwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:18 pm 



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Pixelated Audio did an episode on the music in Crisis Wing

https://pixelatedaudio.com/crisis-wing


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:57 am 


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I downloaded this game today and have been playing it on my Switch. It’s excellent and I’m getting a lot of enjoyment from it. Great job creating it!


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:42 am 


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My wife got me a PS5 for Christmas. I've already played Crisis Wing on PC, but picked this up as it's one of the few native PS5 shmups. For some reason I don't seem able to collect any of the falling medals? Am I being an idiot? Has anyone else experienced this?


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:09 am 



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banjoted wrote:
My wife got me a PS5 for Christmas. I've already played Crisis Wing on PC, but picked this up as it's one of the few native PS5 shmups. For some reason I don't seem able to collect any of the falling medals? Am I being an idiot? Has anyone else experienced this?


Hi. This seems to be the glitch in the PS5 version. There is some info on this issues couple of messages prior.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:46 am 


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pieslice wrote:
banjoted wrote:
My wife got me a PS5 for Christmas. I've already played Crisis Wing on PC, but picked this up as it's one of the few native PS5 shmups. For some reason I don't seem able to collect any of the falling medals? Am I being an idiot? Has anyone else experienced this?


Hi. This seems to be the glitch in the PS5 version. There is some info on this issues couple of messages prior.


Oh sorry, I missed that. Hopefully a patch will sort it at some stage! Cheers dude.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:16 pm 



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There is a patch for Switch and PS4 versions courtesy of EastAsiasoft.

The patch corrects these issues:
* Fixed incorrect diagonal movement when controlling with Switch analog Joycons.
* Added the Full Stretch/1:1 Pixel aspect option to Video Options
* Rebalanced the Boss Rush difficulty to match the Steam version


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:43 am 


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Game feels smoother on Switch now. Control feels snappier / less stutter. After a few weeks without playing it…fired it up last night and it felt really good. Forgot how nice the game looks tated on the monitor.
Bought it along Razion and surprisingly Crisis was the one that sticked with me. Great game. I know what I’m playing this weekend!


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:29 pm 



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DenimDemon wrote:
Game feels smoother on Switch now. Control feels snappier / less stutter. After a few weeks without playing it…fired it up last night and it felt really good. Forgot how nice the game looks tated on the monitor.
Bought it along Razion and surprisingly Crisis was the one that sticked with me. Great game. I know what I’m playing this weekend!


I'll mirror the info I posted to the Electric Underground discord explaining the control issues w/the switch version.

Code:
They had to rewrite the input system for Switch (afaik Switch has quite peculiar input system compared to other consoles since each console mode has unique input ports etc.) The core problem was that the port programmer tried to implement analog input for the joycons which eventually backfired; for the latest patch they just ditched the analog control and for the joycons they replicated the logic from the steam version (analog input is considered digital after deadzone)
The other console versions just use the same input code as the steam version


The latest version feels very good on the OLED model and is very much arcad... I mean PC perfect now! But sadly it took some time to refine it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:56 pm 



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 477
Yeah, I noticed Crisis Wing received an update on my switch, so I turned it on and played a bit. It controls much better now. Speed is perfect and control overall feels a lot more precise. I would still like to see button mappings, since I prefer my fire/autofire button be set to Y on the switch, but it's not a massive difference for this kind of game (two-button shmups). I mean, B is still bomb so the position of my hand is about the same either way.

Compared to the original launch version of Crisis Wing on switch, the game is 100% improved now.


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 Post subject: Re: Crisis Wing - Out now!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:46 am 


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Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 186
Yeah have been playing quiet a bit as well, really cool game.


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