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 Post subject: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:05 pm 



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Any Neo Geo shmups out there besides the licensed ones and the NG:DEV.TEAM ones?


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:35 pm 


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licensed ones?
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:18 pm 



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Licensed = published with permission from SNK.

edit: corrected SDK to SNK


Last edited by shmupsrocks on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:07 pm 



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shmupsrocks wrote:
Licensed = published with permission from SDK.

SDK / SNK?

Not afaik ... not even a demo/proto/hack.

Unless it's a bootleg clone, the unlicensed game market used to usually target the cheaper/easier/more numerous home market options...


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:16 pm 



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Ok, I figure there's almost 20 shmups on the Neo Geo which is pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _Geo_games


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:04 pm 


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shmupsrocks wrote:
Ok, I figure there's almost 20 shmups on the Neo Geo which is pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _Geo_games


Not really, most are pretty average at best.

Pulstar and Blazing Star (from Aicom/Yumekobo) are generally seen as the best of the bunch, followed by Last Resort (SNK).

Strikers 1945 Plus is a vertizontal version of Strikers 1945, other than those there's nothing of any real note. It's a shame there weren't more shmups for the system but I guess the lack of tate support with MVS killed the platform for many developers. Horis just weren't as popular...
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 pm 



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I'm looking forward to trying Prehistoric Isle 2. Also NG:DEV.TEAM released 4 shmups in recent years which I have high hopes for.


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:56 pm 


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Tarma wrote:
shmupsrocks wrote:
Ok, I figure there's almost 20 shmups on the Neo Geo which is pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _Geo_games


Not really, most are pretty average at best.

Pulstar and Blazing Star (from Aicom/Yumekobo) are generally seen as the best of the bunch, followed by Last Resort (SNK).

Strikers 1945 Plus is a vertizontal version of Strikers 1945, other than those there's nothing of any real note. It's a shame there weren't more shmups for the system but I guess the lack of tate support with MVS killed the platform for many developers. Horis just weren't as popular...


The PSN version of Strikers 1945 Plus is a good, cheap portable version if you have a Vita. Not bad at all for $5.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:28 am 


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shmupsrocks wrote:
I'm looking forward to trying Prehistoric Isle 2.

Coincidentally I just picked up the PS4 version. If you want to try it out that way you'll need to make a Japanese PSN account though (plenty of guides on the net).
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:08 am 


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Tarma wrote:
other than those there's nothing of any real note


Zed Blade/Operation Ragnarok is note-worthy for being an NMK game :V plus, its actually pretty fun, even if it is a silly game.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:11 pm 


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Tarma wrote:
Not really, most are pretty average at best.

Uh, you can make fun of Ghost Pilots I guess, but Andro Dunos, Sonic Wings, Brikin'ger, Viewpoint, those are all pretty good games. The Neo Geo is also the system that has Twinkle Star Sprites as well as Shock Troopers. It's a good system for shooting games.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:11 pm 


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I'd love to see a proper release of Viewpoint on the Switch, with the full soundtrack intact. That would be awesome.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:52 pm 


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I'm not saying they're bad games, but Sonic Wings 2 & 3, Zedblade, Andro Dunos, PI 2 they're all pretty average imo. There's far better shmups out there for the discerning, I'd certainly not buy a Neo system (of any type) for the above.

Ironclad... I really don't understand why people rate this. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it's not a patch on Thunder Force IV, R-Type, Pro Gear, Gate of Thunder or any number of other horis.

Ghost Pilots... meh.

Oh, yes, Viewpoint is a good game, despite its difficulty... I should have mentioned it honourably, but I forgot... apols. 8)

Anyone for Captain Tomaday? :?
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:18 am 


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Alpha Mission 2 / ASO 2 is pretty good too. Old school and needs some dedication for mastering the power up system, but really interesting.

@shmupsrocks : Do you really need someone to tell you what to play ?
Go find a list of MVS shmups, look at articles and videos and choose by yourself !
There is not an universal taste in good STGs.

And it's not like you cannot try all of them before investing in hardware...


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:33 am 


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The Neo-Geo shmup library is pretty decent in my opinion. Even the "worst" of the bunch are still pretty solid in their own right, which is more than can be said for other console shmup libraries (*cough* SNES).
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Last edited by Austin on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:32 pm 


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Tarma wrote:
Ironclad... I really don't understand why people rate this. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it's not a patch on Thunder Force IV, R-Type, Pro Gear, Gate of Thunder or any number of other horis.

Why are you okay with Viewpoint but not Brikin'ger? Also, why are you comparing a bunch of wildly different games to each other? Also, you do know Gate of Thunder is way better than any Thunder Force game? Like, not my opinion, actually talking about game design, etc?

Opinions are boring. People can say whatever they want even if it's obvious nonsense, and then say "leave me alone, it's my opinion!". Instead of being taken to task for such an obvious copout, they are allowed to keep peddling their obvious nonsense. There are enough problems with this genre without having to worry about whiny opinions all the time. So:

Tarma wrote:
There's far better shmups out there for the discerning

You have clearly shown that you are no such thing. What if I were to tell you that Andro Dunos is actually one of the best games on the system, again due to clear design reasons? You wouldn't believe me, of course... because you haven't played it. Or any of the games you list, really.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:52 pm 


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This "objectively good/bad, and it's not a matter of opinion" thing is getting pretty tiresome.

You can have your own beliefs about what makes for a good or bad game, even strong beliefs, but acting like one point of view is "objectively correct" because it's "good game design" is just obnoxious. You're still just stating an opinion while trying to mask it as objective truth, no matter how much you may want to believe otherwise.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:07 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
Tarma wrote:
Ironclad... I really don't understand why people rate this. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it's not a patch on Thunder Force IV, R-Type, Pro Gear, Gate of Thunder or any number of other horis.

Why are you okay with Viewpoint but not Brikin'ger? Also, why are you comparing a bunch of wildly different games to each other? Also, you do know Gate of Thunder is way better than any Thunder Force game? Like, not my opinion, actually talking about game design, etc?

Opinions are boring. People can say whatever they want even if it's obvious nonsense, and then say "leave me alone, it's my opinion!". Instead of being taken to task for such an obvious copout, they are allowed to keep peddling their obvious nonsense. There are enough problems with this genre without having to worry about whiny opinions all the time. So:

Tarma wrote:
There's far better shmups out there for the discerning

You have clearly shown that you are no such thing. What if I were to tell you that Andro Dunos is actually one of the best games on the system, again due to clear design reasons? You wouldn't believe me, of course... because you haven't played it. Or any of the games you list, really.


You're a bit of a dick aren't you? In my opinion anyway, but hey that's counts for jack according to you... but is that not your opinion?

Personally, and this is just me speaking here, I don't like Andro Dunos. In fact I think it's shit. I couldn't care less what you think or your indepth critique of its inner structures...

I'm pretty certain, just looking at the annual poll for starters, that most people round these parts don't rate Andro Dunos all that highly... but as a poll is a batch of opinions, it doesn't count does it?

You don't buy a Neo-Geo for its shmup library.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:10 am 


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Despatche wrote:
Opinions are boring. People can say whatever they want even if it's obvious nonsense, and then say "leave me alone, it's my opinion!". Instead of being taken to task for such an obvious copout, they are allowed to keep peddling their obvious nonsense. There are enough problems with this genre without having to worry about whiny opinions all the time.

On the contrary, the opinions are the interesting things that can be discussed, while you've been repeatedly hiding behind the curtain of "objectivity" to shout down anybody who has a different perspective from you, without having to defend anything, because why would you? It's a fact, and facts stand on their own. Even if you're dead-set on this "objective game design" stuff, remember that even the most basic mathematical principles can vary depending on your chosen set of axioms. What are your axioms?

Opinions can be put through discussion, from which people can learn from each other and even update their own views. Of course they don't have to, but that's only a problem if you're entering the discussion with the goal of pushing your ideas onto others.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:28 pm 



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you guys are still doing this flame war toddler shit? It's actually too much to ask for you to be civil about not liking the exact same games. Jfc and then we ask why shmups are so rare nowadays


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:06 am 


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Tarma wrote:
You're a bit of a dick aren't you? In my opinion anyway, but hey that's counts for jack according to you... but is that not your opinion?


Actually, you just stated an objective truth. Don't feel bad.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:57 am 


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GSoft wrote:
you guys are still doing this flame war toddler shit? It's actually too much to ask for you to be civil about not liking the exact same games. Jfc and then we ask why shmups are so rare nowadays


shmups are rare because a sperg rattles off on a forum????

Tarma wrote:
You're a bit of a dick aren't you?


Welcome to despatche, good for keeping scores bad for anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:46 pm 


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CloudyMusic wrote:
This "objectively good/bad, and it's not a matter of opinion" thing is getting pretty tiresome.

You can have your own beliefs about what makes for a good or bad game, even strong beliefs, but acting like one point of view is "objectively correct" because it's "good game design" is just obnoxious. You're still just stating an opinion while trying to mask it as objective truth, no matter how much you may want to believe otherwise.

Of course it's getting "tiresome", you don't want to hear it. I'm tired of people lying to my face and getting away with it, but noone seems to care about that. I don't know how many times and in how many ways I need to explain to you that, no, modern society is totally wrong with their bullshit about everything worth mattering being "subjective reality" or some crap. You can tell me I'm stating an opinion all you like, but you're wrong, and I could actually explain why if you actually wanted to hear it. That's what separates me from all these "5-year-old flamewar" types who just wanna trash games they've never played; I'm actually willing to be honest about what I'm saying.

Tarma wrote:
Personally, and this is just me speaking here, I don't like Andro Dunos. In fact I think it's shit. I couldn't care less what you think or your indepth critique of its inner structures...

I'm pretty certain, just looking at the annual poll for starters, that most people round these parts don't rate Andro Dunos all that highly... but as a poll is a batch of opinions, it doesn't count does it?

You don't buy a Neo-Geo for its shmup library.

No, it doesn't count! These same people also rate genuine trash like Musha Aleste as one of the best games in the genre, then bitch about random extends in Xexex or whatever as being one of the Worst Game Design Elements Ever, despite having zero idea of how the thing works or how it actually affects gameplay. And remember, when a bunch of people share the same "opinion", regardless of where they're coming from, it becomes a fact! That's not even a recent thing, humankind has always done that.

Go research these games yourself, instead of believing so strongly in your personal tastes. Personal tastes are molded by coin flips, not by "deep introspection" or whatever; most people don't have time for anything else.

You absolutely do buy a Neo Geo for its shmup library, as many people have for the past few decades. There was a point where people were talking about games like Blazing Star, Last Resort, and Strikers Plus all the time around here. Now, people don't talk about anything anymore.

Shepardus wrote:
Opinions can be put through discussion, from which people can learn from each other and even update their own views. Of course they don't have to, but that's only a problem if you're entering the discussion with the goal of pushing your ideas onto others.

But this is exactly what happens. Opinions are never discussed, because all people want to do is trash some game they've never played, and tell people "buzz off, it's my opinion" when they're called out for it. This is how people "conversate" now. Your definition of opinion is the ideal that noone on the internet uses anymore. Human fucking beings do not actually care about what they say that much anymore.

I refuse to do that shit. I trash a game that has actually shown itself to be trash for clear, easily explainable reasons. It's easy to explain why Sine Mora is a bad game. It's easy to explain why Tempest 2000 is a bad game. It's easy to explain why Musha is a bad game, I do it all the fucking time.

People don't play these games, alright? That's not really something to debate, is it? It's one of the biggest problems with this genre going back well before I ever showed up; people outside of Japan don't really play these damned games. So I don't see where people get off trying to act like they care so much, because they don't. And it doesn't even take much effort to care... just play the damned games. Please. Not asking for superplays, not asking for day 1 clears, none of that. Please.

But of course, people who just made accounts a few months ago and happened to see me get angry at ten years of complete bullshit think they can judge me and blame me for this. God, such a fucking sperg, right? Probably think I'm some kind of shmup hipster or something, even though all I have ever wanted is for people to actually make an effort to understand what they're talking about. Fuck y'all.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:44 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Opinions can be put through discussion, from which people can learn from each other and even update their own views. Of course they don't have to, but that's only a problem if you're entering the discussion with the goal of pushing your ideas onto others.

But this is exactly what happens. Opinions are never discussed, because all people want to do is trash some game they've never played, and tell people "buzz off, it's my opinion" when they're called out for it. This is how people "conversate" now. Your definition of opinion is the ideal that noone on the internet uses anymore. Human fucking beings do not actually care about what they say that much anymore.

Fair enough, but calling it an objective fact doesn't do anything to foster discussion.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:10 pm 



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I'm pretty new here but where does this talk about "just play the damned games" come from? People aren't playing games any more?


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:53 am 


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Despatche wrote:
CloudyMusic wrote:
This "objectively good/bad, and it's not a matter of opinion" thing is getting pretty tiresome.

You can have your own beliefs about what makes for a good or bad game, even strong beliefs, but acting like one point of view is "objectively correct" because it's "good game design" is just obnoxious. You're still just stating an opinion while trying to mask it as objective truth, no matter how much you may want to believe otherwise.

Of course it's getting "tiresome", you don't want to hear it. I'm tired of people lying to my face and getting away with it, but noone seems to care about that. I don't know how many times and in how many ways I need to explain to you that, no, modern society is totally wrong with their bullshit about everything worth mattering being "subjective reality" or some crap. You can tell me I'm stating an opinion all you like, but you're wrong, and I could actually explain why if you actually wanted to hear it. That's what separates me from all these "5-year-old flamewar" types who just wanna trash games they've never played; I'm actually willing to be honest about what I'm saying.


The problem with looking at videogames solely "objectively" is you are only looking at part of the picture. Subjectivity is a huge part of a medium like this, where things are experienced and felt, not simply measured and noted on some mental spreadsheet for comparison later.

There are truly objective, measurable traits that hold value to people. For example, to name a few: Framerates (is it a locked 60, or does it fluctuate?), amount of slowdown and how it's implemented (does the game actually slow down, or does it have frame skipping?), load times (long, short, and how seamless?), etc. Does implementing one (or all) of these in a negative way dampen the experience? Well, that'll depend on the player, what they deem is acceptable, and what they openly notice and get irritated by. That's one part of subjectivity.

I have games I absolutely adore that others on the internet trash. Others have games they love that I can't stand, even after gaining much experience with them. All we can do is voice our opinions. Who's actually right? Unfortunately, to an extent, no one is.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:41 am 


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Oh hey. I just got back from Japan, and won't shut up about it.

Barely anyone was playing shmups there outside of HEY.
All rhythm games baby, all rhythm.

This is just what I saw though.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:24 am 


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Austin wrote:
The Neo-Geo shmup library is pretty decent in my opinion. Even the "worst" of the bunch are still pretty solid in their own right, which is more than can be said for other console shmup libraries (*cough* SNES).

Have to disagree there. No one in their right mind is going to defend some of the horrid bestowments the (other) 16-bit systems were "blessed" with, but the Neo Geo also has a few rather anemic games which means - due to the diminutive amount of titles overall - that it has a similar ratio overall. Captain Tomaday in particular is without a doubt one of the worst shmups I've ever played, early SFC shmups like Gradius III or Super R-Type offer a veritably consistent framerate by comparison. And while not as terrible, both Alpha Mission II and Ghost Pilots aren't exactly stellar, either.

Which is not to say that I dislike the Neo Geo, I actually did enjoy some of the games that usually don't garner much appreciation (I think that Andro Dunos is a fine game even if the difficulty is somewhat uneven in places, a bit more tautness in the stages would've helped, too) despite the fact that they occasionally annihilated me at first (Brikin'ger and Viewpoint were rather brutal learning experiences; even though there are some aspects in Brikin'ger I still find questionable, I cannot deny it allows for some creative strategies, it's also refreshing to play an Irem epigone without the pod attached at all times in order to increase the base firepower). However, there is not a single game I would consider to be essential*, which is not the case for every other console library that I hold dear. I'd personally rather have something like the SFC where you have your Dimension Force, Raiden Densetsu and Strike Gunner S.T.G on the one hand and your BioMetal, Choujikuu Yousai Macross and R-Type III in the other than a selection of titles which has almost no remarkable amplitudes at all.

*Excepting Twinkle Star Sprites, which is unfortunately a game I'm not proficient at. Nonetheless a thoroughly excellent game.


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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:35 am 


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Perikles wrote:
And while not as terrible, both Alpha Mission II and Ghost Pilots aren't exactly stellar, either.


Yeah, stuff like Alpha Mission II and Ghost Pilots are bottom of the barrel shmup material on the Neo-Geo for me personally, but I still enjoy them a decent bit. Comparing back to the SNES, to me they are still a big step up from games like D-Force, Imperium, or Blazeon.
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 Post subject: Re: Neo Geo shmups besides licensed & NG:DEV.TEAM
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:57 pm 



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Despatche wrote:
Tarma wrote:
Ironclad... I really don't understand why people rate this. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it's not a patch on Thunder Force IV, R-Type, Pro Gear, Gate of Thunder or any number of other horis.

Why are you okay with Viewpoint but not Brikin'ger? Also, why are you comparing a bunch of wildly different games to each other? Also, you do know Gate of Thunder is way better than any Thunder Force game? Like, not my opinion, actually talking about game design, etc?

Opinions are boring. People can say whatever they want even if it's obvious nonsense, and then say "leave me alone, it's my opinion!". Instead of being taken to task for such an obvious copout, they are allowed to keep peddling their obvious nonsense. There are enough problems with this genre without having to worry about whiny opinions all the time. So:

Tarma wrote:
There's far better shmups out there for the discerning

You have clearly shown that you are no such thing. What if I were to tell you that Andro Dunos is actually one of the best games on the system, again due to clear design reasons? You wouldn't believe me, of course... because you haven't played it. Or any of the games you list, really.
I'm enjoying andro dunos alot

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