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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:23 pm 


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bikingjahuty wrote:
I'm genuinely shocked that me and like two other people have Soukyugurentai in their list. Is this game just not considered good within the shooter community or is it that most people just haven't played/heard of it? It's one of the best shooters i've ever played.

I enjoy Souky a lot too, but I don't think it would be in my top 25. Awesome scope though. EDIT: OR MAYBE IT WILL???????

If you get the chance, post a score in my score-thread! If you do, it will finally motivate me to migrate the rest of the scores from the previous thread.
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Last edited by EmperorIng on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:35 pm 


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bikingjahuty wrote:
I'm genuinely shocked that me and like two other people have Soukyugurentai in their list. Is this game just not considered good within the shooter community or is it that most people just haven't played/heard of it? It's one of the best shooters i've ever played.


Souky has always been pretty well-liked on here, just not to the heights of Garegga/Batrider or the similarly marquee stuff from Cave, Treasure etc. It's on my list every year too. :smile:
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:47 pm 


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Finally voted!

I really wanted to spend enough time with Macross 2 before giving my list, and in the end I did not include it in, for reasons I have explained in an other thread (basically, how it sometimes punishes speedkilling and how its powerup system works).
If I have enough "favorites" to come up with a Top 25 it'll defintely be in it, but for now I'll keep the same 15 games as last year. Only the weighting has changed. I wanted to favor the top 4 (Illvelo, Radirgy, Dangun Feveron and Thunder Dragon 2) even more because I really enjoy their playstyle and come back to them much more than any of the others. Karous has seen the harshest drop because I have come to dislike the scoring system that forces you to use the shot even if it is terrible and because the non levelled-up weapons are not that fun which makes the early game a bit boring in comparison with Illvelo and Radirgy's first stages.

I also thought a lot about replacing one of the games by Raiden 4, but ended up deciding against it. It has a sure place in a future Top 25 though.

Shepardus wrote:
Armed Police Batrider, Dangun Feveron, Batsugun Special, and Battle Bakraid are replaced with TwinBee Yahho, Detana TwinBee, Out Zone, and Gradius III (Arcade).

Funny that all these modern shmups have been replaced by classic-style ones. Is that a global shift in preferences towards older shmups or simple coincidence?
trap15 wrote:
Macross II newly added: After putting serious time into this for my STGT, I realize this game is extremely high quality. I'm not quite ready to put it up above the rest of the games, but I feel I could be convinced with some more time spent in all of them..

What exactly do you enjoy in Macross 2? I am not saying it isn't good, because it is, but from the time I spent with it, I still feel it is very inferior to Thunder Dragon 2 and has some frustrating quirks. I wouldn't mind a contrasting opinion on it.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:51 pm 


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M.Knight wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Armed Police Batrider, Dangun Feveron, Batsugun Special, and Battle Bakraid are replaced with TwinBee Yahho, Detana TwinBee, Out Zone, and Gradius III (Arcade).

Funny that all these modern shmups have been replaced by classic-style ones. Is that a global shift in preferences towards older shmups or simple coincidence?

All my new additions were games I hadn't played much before last year's voting. For what it's worth I still like the games I replaced and would probably include them in a top 25 were I to expand my list from 15. Though it's true that I have been preferring simpler gameplay and scoring systems where it's clear what I should be doing - dropping Batrider and Bakraid in particular reflects this (and I almost dropped Progear instead of Dangun for the same reason).
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:28 pm 


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Shepardus wrote:
Though it's true that I have been preferring KONAMI because they made the best games, folks!

Fixed your slightly imprecise wording, you don't have to thank me. :mrgreen:

Altered a few positions on my list, to wit, Einhänder and R-Type Delta rose even higher up - I love my multi-loop marathons and all, but it is quite formidable to try and get better results within the span of a single loop, particularly when free time is moreso defined as paucity, nay, privation than an ens reale, as it were. It took me several years to fully appreciate the former, the pay-off is all the more succulent as a result.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:56 pm 


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Perikles wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Though it's true that I have been preferring KONAMI because they made the best games, folks!

Fixed your slightly imprecise wording, you don't have to thank me. :mrgreen:

That too, though you'll notice the lack of Battlantis on my list. :P
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:32 pm 



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Shepardus wrote:
Perikles wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Though it's true that I have been preferring KONAMI because they made the best games, folks!

Fixed your slightly imprecise wording, you don't have to thank me. :mrgreen:

That too, though you'll notice the lack of Battlantis on my list. :P


After reading this I had to double check Perikles' list just to make sure that retched game wasn't listed lol.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:34 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:20 pm 


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Minor tweaks, haven't really sat down to play much for an extended period this year so decided against honourable mentions. Promoted Wing Force and XIIZeal/XIIStag because, whilst far from perfect, on reflection they've been an insane amount of fun.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:02 pm 


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One week remaining reminder. Time to get in there!!
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:37 pm 


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I genuinely hope that most people are just waiting until the last minute to vote. I checked the previous voting threads out and many of them have nearly double the amount of user participation. Is everyone just so busy they don't have time to contribute or is interest just sliding in the genre? I really hope that we can at least get to page three in the voting thread with people's votes since currently we just cracked page two :(


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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:05 am 


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This year is Kaneko bookends, Cyvern on one side and Air Buster on the other. :P
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:35 am 


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Shepardus wrote:
go vote.


I know there's people skimming this thread that are eligible to vote, get on writing up that list before time runs out. There's plenty of you active that are holding out on us, get to work.Image
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:49 am 


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At least if nobody votes then my vote counts more. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:59 pm 


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The final day of voting has started... maybe. If the numbers really fall short I'm most likely going to extend it for another week.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:08 pm 


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No massive changes for me, switched some places and corrected an injustice by adding MM and UD.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:26 pm 


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Looks like voting's picking up a bit. 43 replies, now.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:28 pm 


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Might as well get my vote in before I pass out in front of the idiot box. Image I always vote late but I'm so out of it recently, I actually thought the deadline was Monday. >_>

Main thing for me is where to put Gun.Smoke and Kamui, both of which entered as minor favourites but have become more genuine desert island picks over the years. For singularly murderous AI duelling at perilous proximity, and a particularly fine combination of joyride pacing/high-performance scoring, respectively. Former probably needs to move up, the latter is maybe a bit high, but I enjoy it more than its professional inspirations Rayforce and Soukyugurentai, even if I respect the brutal intensity of RF more.

Highest-placing new entry is another grueling yet finely tactical survival ordeal to accompany Gun.Smoke, Undeadline MD, which Perikles summarised better than I can here.

Gave a couple low spots to Nexzr and Super Star Soldier, whose respective Sugeeze/Hideeze modes are superbly good fusions of console flexibility and harrowing arcade intensity. Two of my recent favourites for no-frills, no-score, foot-to-the-floor survival action.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:23 pm 


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lol at the guy that voted for arbalester. nice meme

M.Knight wrote:
trap15 wrote:
Macross II newly added: After putting serious time into this for my STGT, I realize this game is extremely high quality. I'm not quite ready to put it up above the rest of the games, but I feel I could be convinced with some more time spent in all of them..

What exactly do you enjoy in Macross 2? I am not saying it isn't good, because it is, but from the time I spent with it, I still feel it is very inferior to Thunder Dragon 2 and has some frustrating quirks. I wouldn't mind a contrasting opinion on it.

I like Macross II for most of the same reasons I like Thunder Dragon 2. Great visuals, great music, and (mostly) constant high-intensity action with great stage layouts, and a deep-but-simple "speed-based" scoring system. They're very similar games in lots of ways.

Macross II mostly shines in Expert, with all of the above coming out in full force. The biggest negative I have is that recovery past stage 3 in most routes is basically impossible due to the medal chains resetting on getting hit, and sometimes the game doesn't give power-ups often enough to reach a reasonable strength.

I still prefer TD2 (as my top 25 shows) by a big margin, but Macross II is no slouch IMO.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:40 pm 


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I don't think my opinion really matters much, hence why the low post count, but I couldn't resist to participate and share my votes on the few games that matter to me.
I haven't played many shooters compared to most people, but my commitment and passion to the few games I play is genuine.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:07 pm 


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Glad to see you participate - that's a hell of a Border Down score you put up after your already impressive Metal Black exploits. :smile:
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:17 pm 


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trap15 : Thanks for the detailed answer!
The strengths you mentionned are also the reasons I like TD2 and Macross2, but the Macross2 miss penalties are indeed difficult to recover from and that's also what makes Medium Course Stage 3 so tricky. I have played a bit of Expert Course but not nearly enough to have a very solid opinion on it, so maybe I should give that mode more attention and see if it improves my opinion of the whole game.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:00 am 


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BIL wrote:
Highest-placing new entry is another grueling yet finely tactical survival ordeal to accompany Gun.Smoke, Undeadline MD, which Perikles summarised better than I can here.

I'm ebullient with joy to receive such inestimable praise! Whilst reading something else entirely, I also came to another corollary regarding Undeadline, more specifically concerning its grandeur: I cannot think of another game in the genre (and in this instance, I only have the auto-scrolling bearers of this ascription in mind) where seething, teeming masses of uncouth, acrimonious enemies come into play with such vigour. One can certainly think of many games that are much more difficult, unleash more bullets, muster more foes in number, indeed. However, even in a savage game such as Gun.Smoke, there is a baleful logic, a geometry of murder, as it were, in place. As you've described afore, there is a devious AI within the unassuming form of the characteristic sideswiping bandit, every single one of them is a personal, an individual threat. Undeadline is the opposite: yes, each and every enemy is capable of tipping the scale, but as part of a ravenous, rapacious, gluttonous torrent. Where you kill or get killed in Gun.Smoke, you indiscriminately slaughter or get slaughtered in Undeadline. You either exult in gory glory or flinch after most dolorous wounds ere you succumb to them mere seconds later, leaving naught but a soon-to-be devoured corpse behind, following the eternal tenet: the slower the river, the redder it runs. Gods, what an awesome game.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:58 am 


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I need a tab button on android then I could vote.lol. I reallybeanted to show crimson clover and Jamestown so.e.love.
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:09 am 


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It's my first time voting this year. I've been getting back into shmups lately, and in particular I'm trying to branch outside of CAVE and Touhou stuff. Despite qualifying, I still feel like there's giant parts of the genre that I'm not familiar with, and I had a hard time putting together the last few games. At the end of the day EoSD is still my favorite game though :P
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:20 am 


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Spoiler: show
Double Spoiler: It is my favorite game to play for score. Deep and difficult with more variety and smart and yolo approach to the content than any other shmooter that I've played makes it the best and most engaging and most rewarding timesink for me.

Fairy Wasr: It is my 2nd fav game to play for score. The Ice and resource system is the best. The number of routes and difficulties gives it extra replayability.

Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream: It is a very "fun" game to play for score, but moreso than any other shmooter I think it is just a genuine game of pure intensity. This is truly "bullet hell".

Shoot the Bullet: Back when I was working pretty hardcore on this game, I would never have thought that I'd come to prefer Double Spoiler. Shoot the Bullet's gameplay system is just much worse than Double Spoiler's, sadly. But it still earns a high place for being such an innovative and amazing game, however, as a scoring game it is almost obsoleted by DS.

Phantasmagoria of Flower View: VS is pure adrenaline fun but as a single player game I find PoDD significantly better.

Perfect Cherry Blossom: Hands down ZUN's best main game with one of the best scoring mechanics of all time. I love this as a scoring game and it is also a beautiful game with ZUN's best aesthetic together with STB.

Guwange: I think it has my favorite stage design/score mechanics combo, and it has the Cat Spider as well, this makes it my favorite CAVE game.

Armed Police Batrider: This is my favorite game of all time in terms of sheer personality and "fun" feel. Incredible pixel art, soundtrack and it just kicks so much ass. The gameplay has some problems, but it aims so high that I can forgive it.

Dragon Blaze: My favorite Psikyo game because the scoring system is definitely one of the best.

The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil: Has some problems with a boring early game, but the scoring system is great and the bosses are some of my favorites ever, making it enjoyable to use SpoilerAL and practice the most fun attacks like Killing Doll and Meister. Also ZUN's best soundtrack

Dangun Feveron: I admit I haven't played this one much, but it is just so goddamn fun that I don't care if I put it too high.

EspGaluda: Love the scoring system and stage design. The bosses and mechanics on bosses could be improved.

Gun.Smoke: This is my favorite oldie because it is such intense action. Great level design. Shame that it cannot be scored.

Crimzon Clover World Ignition: I only played Boost, but watching the other modes makes them seem good in a different way. In any case, Boost on its own makes this a fantastic game already. Brilliant stages and mechanics, but sadly overlong boss fights.

Imperishable Night: This is a game I respect more than I enjoy, but the scoring system is absolutely brilliant and the Extra stage has insanely badass grazes. IN seems to have a really solid early game with stage 2 being unusually action packed already but I think the second half of the main game is not that amazing.

Undefined Fantastic Object: The mechanics are very different, sure, but I don't think they worked out quite as well as they could have done. Still, it's a very good game in every way.

ring^-27: I've just had a lot of fun playing around with this game and being quite confused by how it works.

Flame Zapper Kotsujin: A real gem, this one. The medalling system is better than what you find in the Yagawa games. It did real bullet hell as early as 1996 and it has obviously solid level design, cool bosses and one of my favorite soundtracks.

RayForce: I didn't play it much, so it is maybe honorable mention material, but from what little I played I think it is a stunning game, visually in a league of its own, great mechanics and level design. The bosses leave something to be desired.

Sexy Parodius: Yet another stunning game visually with an incredible soundtrack. Great level design, great fun, scoring I both like and dislike (undecided).

Strikers 1999: Pure Psikyo goodness. I just find it very fun.

Battle Bakraid: The scoring system is great. This is a silly game but I honestly just find it really enjoyable, but I could see how this could get old in the long run.

Gemini Wing: An excellent oldie with a spirit of adventure and childhood fantasy which found a place in my heart. Lovely mechanics. Worst final boss ever.

DoDonPachi DOJ: An obviously fantastic game, but I have some reservations, chaining is just not my type of game and I never managed to warm up to the dreary style. I don't enjoy the final boss.

Mountain of Faith: Very solid game with a fantastic drive to it.


Honorables
Gundemonium Recollection: I played it only very little so far, but it was incredibly enjoyable.
Strikers 1945 II: Almost as good as Strikers 1999.
Aero Chimera: Very difficult made it fun for me.
Battle Garegga: Excellent aesthetic, pixel art, soundtrack. The atmosphere in the 2nd half is one of the best. I have mixed opinions about the gameplay.
Mars Matrix: Great mechanics, but I haven't really played this game much.
Twinkle Tale: Fun simple fantasy game. It was fun to speedrun.
Twinkle Star Sprites: I imagine this one would go up if I played it a lot. The single player kinda sucks, but the VS when the meta gets explained it seems insanely cool.
Akuu Gallet: Simple game with lovely art, good fun
Batsugun Special: See Akuu Gallet
Quantized Blaze: An odd game that I got into the flow of playing sometimes making some memorable experiences.

Some honorables I didn't vote for:
Ketsui
Dimahoo
Lilian Fourhand
ChoRenSha
Parsec47
Torus Trooper
Darius Gaiden
Metal Black
Mecha Ritz
Raiden DX
Raiden II
Parodius Da!
Gunbird 2
OutZone


marus wrote:
It's my first time voting this year. I've been getting back into shmups lately, and in particular I'm trying to branch outside of CAVE and Touhou stuff. Despite qualifying, I still feel like there's giant parts of the genre that I'm not familiar with, and I had a hard time putting together the last few games. At the end of the day EoSD is still my favorite game though :P


*thumbsup*
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:12 am 


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Well I finally did vote, but it feels a lot less like a curated list by a genre aficionado than it does an ungainly mish-mash of games on my mind as of late. It's sloppy. :oops:

Some years I've voted with an eye towards "what shooters do I think are the most important which I've played" and others were a "which shooters are my favorite"... This year I took a slightly different approach and tried to list out shootemups according to "which shmups have I had the most fun playing" and see what fits. I guess it kinda turned into my "Desert Island" list. It's not the same as "my favorite shooters ever" list, since personal faves like Gun Frontier and RayCrisis don't always correlate to fun or enjoyment, if that makes sense. A guy can like a shooter for its ideas, too! :mrgreen:

That led to some unexpected (for me lol) picks, like ultra easy (Fantasy Zone - at least on the first loop!), the frustrating - yet exhilarating - Radiant Silvergun and RayStorm, and pure personal preference games like Guardian Force (this game is amazing: go play it), and showing more love for the wonderful Life Force.

A big inclusion for my ballot this year: Blue Revolver! I spent all of last year talking about how Blue Revolver was, in my eyes, the "best shooter released in 2016" so I think after so much time has passed I might as well give it a vote of confidence. The game kept me coming back for hours learning its addicting weapons system, secret boss bonuses, and challenging bullet patterns. The game should be in every shootemup fan's library as far as I am concerned.

trap15 wrote:
I still prefer TD2 (as my top 25 shows) by a big margin, but Macross II is no slouch IMO.


Some of the most fun I've had during this year's tournament was figuring out how to speed kill everything with my little VF-1. TD2 made my honorable mentions just because I think it looked more polished in the audios and visuals, but Macross 2 is a treasure.

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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:08 am 


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Extra week it is then. Can has secondary late rush?
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:55 am 


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Location: Mars Colony, 2309
I decided to type up a little snippet for each game in my list. Hopefully I won't regret it.

Spoiler: show
Mars Matrix:
Just by far my favorite game ever. I could probably go into a lot of detail about all the little touches in each of the stages, but I'll try to bring up the most significant parts. The coolest element is, of course, the mosquito system. Not only can you use your opponents firepower against them, but, unlike other reflectors you actually have an incredible amount of control of the direction that you send the bullets. It certainly take some getting used to, but is well worth it, IMO.

Apart from the control, I really like the way that the gauge functions. You can drain it any amount to pick up bullets, and it will become full again faster depending on how long you use it for (because it refills at a constant speed). This gives you a lot of flexibility. Just need to clear a little space out in the bullet patterns? Just tap shield. Want to get the maximum possible gold out of a boss' bullet spam? use the shield as long as you can without triggering the Gravity Hole Bomb. However, you always need to wait for the gauge to refill all the way (unlike in RefleX, or Samidare). This forces you to plan out your shield use a little bit, especially when you need to go for longer-duration shields. If you hold it down for too long you get the Gravity Hole Bomb which can really screw you up, especially if you're trying to score. This forces you to get a feel for the shield gauge in order to succeed.

Additionally, MM has really excellent pacing. The first couple of stages are easier, but also really short so they never feel like a drag. The total game length is only about 18 minutes. Just about perfect, especially given the intensity of the game. There's probably more things that contribute to the pacing, but it's definitely among the best paced games I've played (up there with Psikyo stuff).

Also, The bullet patterns are really fun. as PCEngine Fan X once said (paraphrasing) "Takumi style scattershot patterns." There's a lot of big clumps of bullets, clumps that spread out as they move across the screen. A lot of walls of bullets. The more micrododgy patterns tend to be sparse spreads of bullets across the entire screen. Stage 3 has enemies shooting out arcs of bullets that form a maze. Choose the fast ship and you'll find yourself actually weaving around them on the screen much of the time. Very intense, and perfectly designed around being able to reflect bullets against enemies to make medals, as well as ships that don't have a focus (I find myself increasingly not really enjoying playing games that have focus mechanics).

Last but not least there's the scoring. Timed medal chaining. Fill in the gaps in the chain by reflecting bullets into medals. This will allow you to build up a multiplier which basically ends up getting cashed in in the final stage where you have lots of high value enemies to mow down. Easy to understand and yet incredibly deep. Mars Matrix is probably the only game I will ever seriously play for score.

Giga Wing 2:
Only recently started giving this game a fair try, and it's very quickly made its way up to near the top of my list. Similar patterns and pacing to Mars Matrix, but more boss focused (and the bosses are quite fun). I don't like the reflect mechanic quite as much as the MM one, but it's probably a close second. Scoring is based upon getting the immensely viscerally satisfying "volcanons" where, if there's enough medals on stage at once they explode into more medals. Not too much more to say on the matter

Gunbird 2:
This was one of the first shmups I bought when I first got into shmups. I spent many hours grinding trying desperately to figure out how to get through the fourth stage (sky stage, I think they call it), and failing. Alas, it was way above my skill level at the time, and probably still is (especially since I still suck at using smart bombs). I think what I like about it is the breakneck pacing, the melee attack focused gameplay, and the fact that very often it's safer to be near the top of the screen and take out enemies before they are a threat (or in some places seal their bullets). There's probably more to it, but I haven't played it as much since I stopped having an SDTV (It doesn't work with my vga-only PC monitor, and I haven't found a character in the arcade game in MAME who I like quite as much as Morrigan in the DC version)

Zero Gunner 2:
Classic Psikyo pacing and patterns, but a slightly more forgiving difficulty. The actual appeal of this game is largely in the fact that you can rotate your ship around. For whatever reason I find this weird "hold a button to rotate" gameplay a little easier for me to wrap my head around than, for example, a twin stick game. That's about all I can say about it. It's a super well crafted game, and very fun.

Samidare:
This is another reflect 'em up, except it actually isn't. It's like a pseudo-reflect 'em up. Instead of literally reflecting bullets back at the enemy, The reflector absorbs bullets and turns your shot into a more powerful, x16 point shot. The more bullets that you absorb the longer the powerful x16 shot lasts. That pretty much sums up both the gameplay mechanics and the scoring. It's very simple, but actually quite deep from what I've seen in other people's replays (I never got that great of a score). The extra stage seems like it's both harder and deeper, but I haven't spent a lot of time with it. I actually think that this gameplay mechanic is super fun, and interesting, and I assume a little easier to program than a traditional bullet reflect, so props to RebRank on that. Apart from the gameplay mechanics, the game is very boss-focused, has super fast pacing, and is very intense. Really fun bosses as well.

rRootage:
This game is on my list because I would be lying to myself if I didn't say that I've had a lot of fun with it over time. The bite size challenge structure may not be quite as satisfying to complete as a whole 20 minute arcade game, but there are times when I can't get into the idea of practicing a stage or playing a full credit of an arcade game, and just want to react to patterns (often random patterns), and see how long I can survive without bombing or whatever. In addition, the game has 4 modes with different mechanics each with something like 40 stages that can be separated into 10 difficulty levels. one stage in each difficulty of each mode is randomly generated every time you play. It's good stuff.

R-Type:
When I first heard about R-Type, I was like "bullet soaking, that sounds lame," but now that I've actually played it (1-ALL'd it, in fact) I realize it is a tactical shooter of high calibur. The force gives you a lot of interesting options for how to tackle the stages. The stages are well designed, and the boss quick kill and / or safe spot strategies are really fun to pull off. The only downside is that some of the time the power ups are your enemy, and it's not really possible to recover past maybe like the second stage. I will say that there are more frustrating games when it comes to power up dodging, but R-Type is definitely a product of its time in those ways. I really must try II and Delta one of these days.

Dangun Feveron:
I haven't spent that much time with this game, but from what little experience I've had it is incredibly fun. fast, sparse patterns, caravan-style bonus enemies, and discoman chaining (which has got to be one of the better scoring systems ever devised). Possible down sides are that it might be a little long for how difficult it is, and maybe just more difficult than I generally like in a game. The ship is also real twitchy if you want it to be fast enough, but at least the bullet patterns are designed around that.

Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of the Opa Opa:
Best 3DS shmup, probably, though, because I value my thumbs, I usually play it in MAME. This is a game that also seemed pretty unappealing to me when I first heard of it, especially with the shop system, two-directional scrolling, and potentially brutal recovery, but actually, once you introduce autofire and trying to get through the stages fast it turns into a very nicely paced game with pretty reasonable recovery (They make it very easy to get speed and double bombs back, and that's all you need for most of it, even if the fire bomb makes things a lot easier). Light and Dark stages allows for you to play the game at a difficulty that feels more reasonable to you. Also gets pretty intense in later stages even on the light stages, though probably never to memo requiring degrees (though I haven't played the dark versions of most stages). Pretty original and fun boss designs as well.

Tumiki Fighters:
Kenta Cho's only game that plays like a regular shoot 'em up instead of being either bite size challenges, or endless stages, or both. In addition to standard and solid bullet patterns, the enemy catching mechanic is very unique and allows for some interesting and fun strategy. Gets pretty intense when rank gets high.

Under Defeat:
Brutal tactical shooter that is very intense and full of viscerally satisfying explosions. Boss quick kill strategies are quite fun. Planning ahead with where to launch your rockets is what it's all about. Maybe a little bit on the slow paced and long game length side, but overall a very fun game. I promise I'll clear this some day, Stevens!

Eschatos:
Wasn't sure whether I should include Eschatos or Judgment Silversword in my list. JSS is better paced, IMO, but playing with the standard ship it's almost required that you use the button-mashy hybrid shot strategy, which my thumbs really don't appreciate. Both games have pretty interesting weapons systems, with a very cool shield mechanic that is unlike any other that I've seen (though IMO not in the same league as Mars Matrix. Note also that you don't need to wait for the gauge to recharge to use the shield again in these games, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but is something that I really like about the Takumi games. Also there is not bullet reflecting in either of these). I think what I actually like most about Eschatos (and JSS) is the pattern design. Hard to describe it, exactly, but MKai / Qute makes some fun bullet patterns. Another thing that stands out in Eschatos is the rotating stage hazards in stage 3. Those things are cool as fuck.

Triggerheart Exelica:
This game has a weird kind of mystique to me, as I remember hearing about it being released on the Dreamcast many years after the Dreamcast had fallen out of pop culture (maybe a little bit before it came back into the pop culture in a nostalgic way, though I don't really remember that well). At the time I was still playing the DC, though I don't think I was playing many video games in general in 2007, but DC was my only system. I also was probably unaware of all of the other post-mortem DC releases, though I was aware of the homebrew scene as it pertained to emulators, mostly. I certainly knew nothing about the gameplay (not sure why I never looked up video footage of it, though). Anyway, the name stuck in my head, and it was cool to finally be able to get it affordably on XBLA. I only mention this because I don't know if I would like it as much without that mystique.

It is, however, very original in gameplay mechanics, and very fun, especially with autoswing off, which allows you to choose whether to swing or just to use enemies as a shield, even though most of the time you just want to swing, and it can sometimes screw you up to have the manual swing. Being able to anchor onto ground enemies and bosses and shoot a directed attack at them is also a very cool idea. Anchoring onto enemies slows down your movement, too, so focused shot is wrapped into this one cool mechanic. Stage design is very well done for using the anchor, and bullet patterns are generally well done, and sometimes even a little fancy. They're more curtain fire type patterns than most of the games on my list.

Valkyrius:
Valkyrius kinda seems bad in theory with a warp mechanic and ammo-limited powerups, but there are enough patterns that are designed around the warp to make it feel necessary, and not so many as to overwhelm the game. The warp also seems very well implemented with two different distance choices, and a circle drawn around your ship to show you exactly where you'll end up. It's actually pretty fun to use. As for the power ups, I think you're default shot is adequate most of the time, and you can really play the game without worrying about conserving ammo so that is okay. What really shines about this game is actually the patterns, and maybe also the boss fights. Patterns are fun in a similar way to Eschatos patterns to me, and there's a few non-bullet hazards that are cool, e.g. the enemy shockwaves (Gotta warp past those!).

V . V:
Like Dangun Feveron, I haven't really played this game as much as I ought to before voting for it, but I do quite enjoy the bullet pattern style of late Toaplan games (including Cho Ren Sha, even though that isn't a Toaplan game). This one is the one that felt the most enjoyable to me, though, for whatever reason. I also think it did a good job of implementing a Gradius-style power-up system without making recovery impossible. You can always get that one speed up and the default level 1 weapon is decently powerful


Yes, I am aware that it's excessively wordy :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: 15th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Threa
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:02 am 


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Joined: 30 Apr 2015
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Location: Indonesia
Not really a massive change for last year with Futari BL is on my top 5, dropped CCWI.
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