TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

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trap15
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TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by trap15 »

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Last Resort (SNK, 1992)

The SNK take on an old time classic.

Playing week ends Sunday, 24 December, 2017 at 22:00 GMT

Dynamic scoreboard at http://daifukkat.su/stgt/2017/

Tournament main thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=61125
Score submission thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=61434

RULES

MAME or PCB. MAME set is named lresort.
Autofire is allowed.
1 credit only.

DIP SWITCH/CONFIGURATION SETTINGS
Default settings.

Discuss the game, strategy, and such here, not the score submission thread.
Last edited by trap15 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
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Perikles
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Perikles »

We're not playing two loops of a short game like Bakuretsu Breaker (which would've been a counterbalance for the RNG, no less), yet two loops with checkpoint milking receive your placet? Not sure whether I can ascertain the intention behind that. :mrgreen:

I decidedly approve of a real horizontal, however! It's no BlaZeon, but you take what you can get.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Sumez »

Well, at least I don't have to use MAME this time around.

Was never a fan of the game, but it's a part of my Neo Geo "stack of shame", so there's always that.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by trap15 »

Perikles wrote:Not sure whether I can ascertain the intention behind that. :mrgreen:
There really isn't one, I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh lol.
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<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Shepardus »

I haven't played this before, but from what I've seen and heard it's actually pretty decent.

Does it matter which NeoGeo BIOS we use? I'm currently using "Japan MVS (Ver. 3)".

Edit: Actually never mind that, it's resetting to "Europe MVS (Ver. 2)" every time I launch the game.
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NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by trap15 »

I'll just get rid of the Japanese set rule, there's apparently no changes.
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<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Deadliar »

This is already far cooler than Bakaretsu breaker. Looking forward to it.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Bananamatic »

bakuretsu breaker was better
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Deadliar »

Bananamatic wrote:bakuretsu breaker was better
Fight me in change air blade
Play for fun and win when you can.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Bananamatic »

in tekkaman blade
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by KAI »

This tournament was a trap.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by EmperorIng »

Memorizer week???
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by copy-paster »

Oh look another R-Type wannabe.

If it really is memorizer I can just download and watch a replay.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by CloudyMusic »

This game seems actually fun, unlike Bakuretsu Breaker. :P
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by ED-057 »

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Despatche »

Oh look, here's that R-Type hate I was talking about. It's still there, just hiding.

Even the shmups community clings to that tired meme of "memorizers". Most games are "memorizers", except for specific designs like Geometry Wars.
Shepardus wrote:Edit: Actually never mind that, it's resetting to "Europe MVS (Ver. 2)" every time I launch the game.
Recent MAME (going back some years) does any multi-game hardware in the most backwards way imaginable. To get anything remotely resembling correct behavior, you have to load the hardware's BIOS itself and load any game you want to play into it manually. It's "accurate", except it's a pain in the ass and legitimately unintuitive (a word I usually hate). If you try to load the game itself, then try to change the BIOS afterward, it'll keep looking at the savefile being from another BIOS and God knows what all that does. Can confirm this messes with Strikers Plus at the very least.

Loading the game by itself doesn't even save settings properly, despite pointlessly making save files. For example, whenever I want to play Shienryu (ST-V), I would have to change the autofire setting every single time I open the game in MAME. Doing it correctly doesn't save BIOS either, which is a MAME setting; there's some special way you have to get BIOS setting to actually save, I think? Honestly, I don't think loading something correctly saves settings either. I don't feel like checking right now. I think Neo Geo works better than ST-V about saving settings in any given scenario.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Shepardus »

"Memorizer" isn't the best term for a game like R-Type since other shmups also involve a significant amount of memorization, but there are different types of memorization (i.e. what you're memorizing) and ways to incorporate memorization into the gameplay (i.e. how you're rewarded for remembering something or punished for failing to do so). Not that that's a bad thing for R-Type and this game (which I'm assuming is similar though I haven't played it much yet).

So what's the difference between the red and blue powerups? I see that it changes the color of the orb, but I haven't noticed what difference that makes.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Mero »

No way is this game a hardcore memoriser.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by trap15 »

Blue rebounds off walls, Red rides along them. Basically always use red lol.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Shepardus »

trap15 wrote:Blue rebounds off walls, Red rides along them. Basically always use red lol.
Oh, thanks. Clearly I haven't been using the charge shot enough.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Deadliar »

Most shmups can be classed as memorizers.

The real question is how forgiving the game is if you mess up.

Do you lose some of your score? A life? Is the run ruined?

Generally if memorization makes you win harder as opposed to being a requirement, the shmup shouldn't be called a memorizer.

I don't think Last Resort is too strict in this regard.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Shepardus »

I agree with part of that, but think determining whether memorization is a "requirement" is too subjective - some people are skilled enough to flail their way through Psikyo games or other "memorizers," while others find that so unreliable that they turn to memorization for anything that doesn't have significant RNG. If R-Type had bombs that let you skip challenges you haven't memorized, maybe you could argue it's not a "memorizer" then, but at the same time I think that would miss the spirit of its gameplay (this is why I think "memorizer" isn't a great name).

Also, "messing up" is different from failing to memorize something. If you screw up in arcade Gradius III your run is pretty much over, but that's because its checkpoints are horrific, not because it's a memorizer. Speaking of which, anything with checkpoints and no bombs could be said to be a "memorizer" in some sense since you can't get past a section without having a technique for it.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Zerst »

This game has good music. A shame about the rest of it.
Dimahoo is a fun game.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by mamboFoxtrot »

Oh, I hadn't payed attention to the previous trap tourneys and misread some things, so I thought you guys were gonna be stuck playing Breaker for five weeks :lol:
Last edited by mamboFoxtrot on Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by drauch »

Well, guess I'm going to need to make the Papa Roach joke.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Deadliar »

mamboFoxtrot wrote:Oh, I hadn't payed attention to the previous trap tourneys and misread some things, so I thought you guys were gonna be stuck playing Breaker for five weeks :lol:
Okay but in what world is five weeks of bang buster a sane course of actio
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Sumez »

I'm hoping for more space-JPEGs next week though. I kind of got attached to them.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Perikles »

Plasmo wrote:Any idea where the WR is checkpoint milking?
I'm willing to bet that the highest scores possible are achieved by milking the final checkpoint in the second loop. Destroy the respawning turrets for as long as possible and - ideally - get a double K.O. on the final boss. I haven't had any time to try that out yet, but I'm going to wager that this last part is extremely difficult. Unlike Parodius Da!'s exploit on the final boss where you have a good second to kill yourself after taking out the final boss, you immediately gain invincibility after defeating any given boss if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure at the moment whether you could perform some crash landings on top of a boss to deal damage, but I don't think so.

The checkpoint still might be worth it without the final boss on account of the numerous turrets, I don't have any hard numbers for now, though.
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Icarus »

Thread's cleaned. Also lmao, you have a cruel sense of humor, Trap, picking this game. :lol:
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Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort

Post by Stevens »

And once again the sun shines on the farm.

I didn't clear it, but rather enjoyed my time with Last Resort. Why the hate? Seen as a poor mans R-Type?
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