TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Last Resort (SNK, 1992)
The SNK take on an old time classic.
Playing week ends Sunday, 24 December, 2017 at 22:00 GMT
Dynamic scoreboard at http://daifukkat.su/stgt/2017/
Tournament main thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=61125
Score submission thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=61434
RULES
MAME or PCB. MAME set is named lresort.
Autofire is allowed.
1 credit only.
DIP SWITCH/CONFIGURATION SETTINGS
Default settings.
Discuss the game, strategy, and such here, not the score submission thread.
Last edited by trap15 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
We're not playing two loops of a short game like Bakuretsu Breaker (which would've been a counterbalance for the RNG, no less), yet two loops with checkpoint milking receive your placet? Not sure whether I can ascertain the intention behind that.
I decidedly approve of a real horizontal, however! It's no BlaZeon, but you take what you can get.
I decidedly approve of a real horizontal, however! It's no BlaZeon, but you take what you can get.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Well, at least I don't have to use MAME this time around.
Was never a fan of the game, but it's a part of my Neo Geo "stack of shame", so there's always that.
Was never a fan of the game, but it's a part of my Neo Geo "stack of shame", so there's always that.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
There really isn't one, I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh lol.Perikles wrote:Not sure whether I can ascertain the intention behind that.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
I haven't played this before, but from what I've seen and heard it's actually pretty decent.
Does it matter which NeoGeo BIOS we use? I'm currently using "Japan MVS (Ver. 3)".
Edit: Actually never mind that, it's resetting to "Europe MVS (Ver. 2)" every time I launch the game.
Does it matter which NeoGeo BIOS we use? I'm currently using "Japan MVS (Ver. 3)".
Edit: Actually never mind that, it's resetting to "Europe MVS (Ver. 2)" every time I launch the game.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
I'll just get rid of the Japanese set rule, there's apparently no changes.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
This is already far cooler than Bakaretsu breaker. Looking forward to it.
Play for fun and win when you can.
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Bananamatic
- Posts: 3530
- Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:21 pm
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
bakuretsu breaker was better
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Fight me in change air bladeBananamatic wrote:bakuretsu breaker was better
Play for fun and win when you can.
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Bananamatic
- Posts: 3530
- Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:21 pm
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
in tekkaman blade
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
This tournament was a trap.
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EmperorIng
- Posts: 5067
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Memorizer week???
DEMON'S TILT [bullet hell pinball] - Music Composer || EC2151 ~ My FM/YM2612 music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality
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copy-paster
- Posts: 1693
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:33 pm
- Location: Indonesia
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Oh look another R-Type wannabe.
If it really is memorizer I can just download and watch a replay.
If it really is memorizer I can just download and watch a replay.
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CloudyMusic
- Posts: 1247
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:22 pm
- Location: AZ, US
- Contact:
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
This game seems actually fun, unlike Bakuretsu Breaker.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Oh look, here's that R-Type hate I was talking about. It's still there, just hiding.
Even the shmups community clings to that tired meme of "memorizers". Most games are "memorizers", except for specific designs like Geometry Wars.
Loading the game by itself doesn't even save settings properly, despite pointlessly making save files. For example, whenever I want to play Shienryu (ST-V), I would have to change the autofire setting every single time I open the game in MAME. Doing it correctly doesn't save BIOS either, which is a MAME setting; there's some special way you have to get BIOS setting to actually save, I think? Honestly, I don't think loading something correctly saves settings either. I don't feel like checking right now. I think Neo Geo works better than ST-V about saving settings in any given scenario.
Even the shmups community clings to that tired meme of "memorizers". Most games are "memorizers", except for specific designs like Geometry Wars.
Recent MAME (going back some years) does any multi-game hardware in the most backwards way imaginable. To get anything remotely resembling correct behavior, you have to load the hardware's BIOS itself and load any game you want to play into it manually. It's "accurate", except it's a pain in the ass and legitimately unintuitive (a word I usually hate). If you try to load the game itself, then try to change the BIOS afterward, it'll keep looking at the savefile being from another BIOS and God knows what all that does. Can confirm this messes with Strikers Plus at the very least.Shepardus wrote:Edit: Actually never mind that, it's resetting to "Europe MVS (Ver. 2)" every time I launch the game.
Loading the game by itself doesn't even save settings properly, despite pointlessly making save files. For example, whenever I want to play Shienryu (ST-V), I would have to change the autofire setting every single time I open the game in MAME. Doing it correctly doesn't save BIOS either, which is a MAME setting; there's some special way you have to get BIOS setting to actually save, I think? Honestly, I don't think loading something correctly saves settings either. I don't feel like checking right now. I think Neo Geo works better than ST-V about saving settings in any given scenario.
Rage Pro, Rage Fury, Rage MAXX!
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
"Memorizer" isn't the best term for a game like R-Type since other shmups also involve a significant amount of memorization, but there are different types of memorization (i.e. what you're memorizing) and ways to incorporate memorization into the gameplay (i.e. how you're rewarded for remembering something or punished for failing to do so). Not that that's a bad thing for R-Type and this game (which I'm assuming is similar though I haven't played it much yet).
So what's the difference between the red and blue powerups? I see that it changes the color of the orb, but I haven't noticed what difference that makes.
So what's the difference between the red and blue powerups? I see that it changes the color of the orb, but I haven't noticed what difference that makes.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
No way is this game a hardcore memoriser.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Blue rebounds off walls, Red rides along them. Basically always use red lol.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Oh, thanks. Clearly I haven't been using the charge shot enough.trap15 wrote:Blue rebounds off walls, Red rides along them. Basically always use red lol.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Most shmups can be classed as memorizers.
The real question is how forgiving the game is if you mess up.
Do you lose some of your score? A life? Is the run ruined?
Generally if memorization makes you win harder as opposed to being a requirement, the shmup shouldn't be called a memorizer.
I don't think Last Resort is too strict in this regard.
The real question is how forgiving the game is if you mess up.
Do you lose some of your score? A life? Is the run ruined?
Generally if memorization makes you win harder as opposed to being a requirement, the shmup shouldn't be called a memorizer.
I don't think Last Resort is too strict in this regard.
Play for fun and win when you can.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
I agree with part of that, but think determining whether memorization is a "requirement" is too subjective - some people are skilled enough to flail their way through Psikyo games or other "memorizers," while others find that so unreliable that they turn to memorization for anything that doesn't have significant RNG. If R-Type had bombs that let you skip challenges you haven't memorized, maybe you could argue it's not a "memorizer" then, but at the same time I think that would miss the spirit of its gameplay (this is why I think "memorizer" isn't a great name).
Also, "messing up" is different from failing to memorize something. If you screw up in arcade Gradius III your run is pretty much over, but that's because its checkpoints are horrific, not because it's a memorizer. Speaking of which, anything with checkpoints and no bombs could be said to be a "memorizer" in some sense since you can't get past a section without having a technique for it.
Also, "messing up" is different from failing to memorize something. If you screw up in arcade Gradius III your run is pretty much over, but that's because its checkpoints are horrific, not because it's a memorizer. Speaking of which, anything with checkpoints and no bombs could be said to be a "memorizer" in some sense since you can't get past a section without having a technique for it.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
This game has good music. A shame about the rest of it.
Dimahoo is a fun game.
<trap15> C is for Bakraid
<trap15> C is for Bakraid
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mamboFoxtrot
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:44 am
- Location: Florida, Estados Unidos
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Oh, I hadn't payed attention to the previous trap tourneys and misread some things, so I thought you guys were gonna be stuck playing Breaker for five weeks
Last edited by mamboFoxtrot on Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Well, guess I'm going to need to make the Papa Roach joke.
BIL wrote: "Small sack, LOTS OF CUM" - Nikola Tesla
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Okay but in what world is five weeks of bang buster a sane course of actiomamboFoxtrot wrote:Oh, I hadn't payed attention to the previous trap tourneys and misread some things, so I thought you guys were gonna be stuck playing Breaker for five weeks
Play for fun and win when you can.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
I'm hoping for more space-JPEGs next week though. I kind of got attached to them.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
I'm willing to bet that the highest scores possible are achieved by milking the final checkpoint in the second loop. Destroy the respawning turrets for as long as possible and - ideally - get a double K.O. on the final boss. I haven't had any time to try that out yet, but I'm going to wager that this last part is extremely difficult. Unlike Parodius Da!'s exploit on the final boss where you have a good second to kill yourself after taking out the final boss, you immediately gain invincibility after defeating any given boss if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure at the moment whether you could perform some crash landings on top of a boss to deal damage, but I don't think so.Plasmo wrote:Any idea where the WR is checkpoint milking?
The checkpoint still might be worth it without the final boss on account of the numerous turrets, I don't have any hard numbers for now, though.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
Thread's cleaned. Also lmao, you have a cruel sense of humor, Trap, picking this game.
Re: TRP-STGT 2017 Conversation Week 2: Last Resort
And once again the sun shines on the farm.
I didn't clear it, but rather enjoyed my time with Last Resort. Why the hate? Seen as a poor mans R-Type?
I didn't clear it, but rather enjoyed my time with Last Resort. Why the hate? Seen as a poor mans R-Type?
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.