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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm 


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I've played some more Rolling Gunner to see if it clicks with me.
The patterns in general involve a lot of micro-dodging and squinting at the screen to slowly fit your tiny ship's tiny hitbox inside the tiny spaces between the tiny bullets, though some of them such as the St5 Boss last attack and the enemy formations coming from all directions in the levels also give you incentives to move all around the screen. Overall, it's a style that feels very CAVE-ish but I am not that enthralled.

I think part of it is also due to the 16:9 horizontal playfield which makes such dense patterns much harder to read than in the vertical games. I don't mind horis at all (heck, I am even making one lol), but most of those I play have lower bullet counts and everything (ship, enemies, bullets) feel bigger proportion-wise compared to the screen size.
The difficulty is also ramping up pretty quickly. I don't know if it isn't also due to me not being used to danmaku horis but from Stage 3 onwards it's much trickier than in something like Akai Katana or DeathSmiles where you can manage to survive even without mastering the level. There is an autobomb that helps but not that much.

Overall, I guess if you like stuff like Progear you'll find a lot to love in there as there are influences in it (early stage...4 IIRC? looks straight out of Progear), but it isn't for me. The multidirectionnal shot mechanic is the one I enjoyed the most as it gives some more dynamism to the levels with enemies coming from every direction but in order to keep the direction locked, you have to stay focused which lowers your speed. That works well with the game's patterns obviously but it's not the kind of movement preferences I have.

Some other comments :
-Some stage backgrounds are...doubleplusungood. Stage 2 looks like a collage of random Google Earth screenshots and Stage 3's color blends in with the bullets. That said, once you are focused on the action, you end up not really paying attention to them. And I still appreciate that they tried to put some effort in the BGs instead of having an empty single colored BG.
-Your hitbox can't actually occupy every single pixel on the screen as there are small invisible walls on the edges to make your entire ship be entirely visible at all times. When you are pushed back on the left side by the boss bullet patterns, it can make the difference between a successful dodge and death/autobomb.
-There seems to be only one type of medal. They don't get any bigger or anything even when you use the Hyper, unless I am missing something.
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:31 pm 


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M.Knight wrote:
I've played some more Rolling Gunner to see if it clicks with me.
The patterns in general involve a lot of micro-dodging and squinting at the screen to slowly fit your tiny ship's tiny hitbox inside the tiny spaces between the tiny bullets, though some of them such as the St5 Boss last attack and the enemy formations coming from all directions in the levels also give you incentives to move all around the screen.

you can actually dodge around a ton of the boss patterns, maybe a good third of them? good example is the st3 midbosses, you can misdirect most of its patterns instead of having to dodge through them
it's not really a micrododging game, the ships are too fast for that

M.Knight wrote:
The difficulty is also ramping up pretty quickly. I don't know if it isn't also due to me not being used to danmaku horis but from Stage 3 onwards it's much trickier than in something like Akai Katana or DeathSmiles where you can manage to survive even without mastering the level. There is an autobomb that helps but not that much.

agreed, was surprised by how small the difference between original and expert was considering how hard expert is

M.Knight wrote:
There seems to be only one type of medal. They don't get any bigger or anything even when you use the Hyper, unless I am missing something.

there's a double break/hyper mechanic, you use the small ones to charge that up and hyper again
then the big ones start dropping, which also increase your rank that also acts as the multiplier


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:00 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
M.Knight wrote:
I've played some more Rolling Gunner to see if it clicks with me.
The patterns in general involve a lot of micro-dodging and squinting at the screen to slowly fit your tiny ship's tiny hitbox inside the tiny spaces between the tiny bullets, though some of them such as the St5 Boss last attack and the enemy formations coming from all directions in the levels also give you incentives to move all around the screen.

you can actually dodge around a ton of the boss patterns, maybe a good third of them? good example is the st3 midbosses, you can misdirect most of its patterns instead of having to dodge through them
it's not really a micrododging game, the ships are too fast for that


Sounds Psikyo-ish, cool! Will hopefully give it a try later this week when I have...5 minutes of spare time or so!
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:15 pm 


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What determines the size of the point items?


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:38 pm 


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the type of shot just like deathsmiles
except it's just shot for zako and laser for anything bigger
big medals drop only in double hyper mode with correct shot
bigger medals also seem to drop if you're maxed out on point value but it's probably not worth much


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:31 pm 


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Played it a bit more to test this double break mode.
I didn't notice at first that there are two types of regular medals, given how the big one only seems to be a slightly bigger version of the regular-sized medal, without any additionnal bells and whistles like in a Raizing or Grybanser Fox game where the medal types are easily distinguishable. Having to use the shot to kill small enemies and get bigger medals seems a lot trickier than it should be when those enemies come from behind and you are supposed to use your module shot while dodging bullets and repositionning the module on-the-fly, as the shot mode does not lock its orientation AFAIK.

Once you manage to trigger an hyper and a double break, the big medals are pretty fun to generate. And those are as big and distinctive as they should be. The flow of hypers and double breaks seems pretty fast once you get the hang of it but the double breaks I have triggered lasted very shortly most of the time, like 2 or 3 seconds and I have no idea how I am supposed to make them last longer.

I tried the Stage 3 midbosses misdirection and while it works, I am not sure I can kill them fast enough with this method. I am moving around the four modules and the aimed shots don't hit me, but at the same time I don't damage the midboss that much when doing that and it seems to time out. Maybe I am missing something.
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:41 pm 


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M.Knight wrote:
Once you manage to trigger an hyper and a double break, the big medals are pretty fun to generate. And those are as big and distinctive as they should be. The flow of hypers and double breaks seems pretty fast once you get the hang of it but the double breaks I have triggered lasted very shortly most of the time, like 2 or 3 seconds and I have no idea how I am supposed to make them last longer.

I tried the Stage 3 midbosses misdirection and while it works, I am not sure I can kill them fast enough with this method. I am moving around the four modules and the aimed shots don't hit me, but at the same time I don't damage the midboss that much when doing that and it seems to time out. Maybe I am missing something.

There's a circle around your ship when you activate the first hyper, you fill it up by collecting medals, full circle=max duration
get a big cancel on the activation to immediately get a boost

also the 1st st3 midboss is not worth even hypering so let it time out if you want
the second one goes down regardless when you hyper the final attack the 1st one doesn't have


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:14 pm 


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Ah, so you would want to let enemies spray as many bullets as possible on the screen right before triggering the initial hyper then? Got it!
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I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.

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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:31 pm 


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I think you always want to do that
but in double break the cancel doesn't give you large medals
to be honest idk what's even the optimal strategy but the basics are just get rank to 50 and stay there forever
I think I'm at 7 billion on expert in terms of routing right now but 50 rank is hard as hell


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:52 pm 


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I am kinda getting the hang of filling the double break jauge with the hyper's medals but it's pretty tough nonetheless, especially against bosses since you have to be close to them to get the medals. I am not sure you can get big medals from double breaking them. I could be doing something wrong though.

Speaking of getting close to enemies, this pseudo-proximity mechanic makes the game a lot more about moving all over the place than I thought, since you want to get rather close to the enemies you are killing to grab their medals before they fall off the screen. That's nice, but adds even more difficulty and risks to an already tough game. At least, I am still glad bombing does not reset the bottom left counter (at least on Normal mode, maybe Expert does?).
There are still some patterns (such as the Stage 3 boss final attack) where I don't see how you could get close to the boss or try to misdirect the attacks, but I can see how a good scoring run will play aggressively by point blanking the enemies coming from all sides with the correct shot to grab the medals and then kill as many as possible while in Hyper/Double break.

I suppose the rank maxes out much faster in Expert mode? And the cap is probably higher too. The highest I've gotten it to rise in a two-stage run so far is...2. :lol: Bombing or dying seems to reset it so getting it to the max is no joke.
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I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.

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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:57 pm 


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the st3 boss final is all about the big cancel at the end
on expert I got the rank to 25 at the end of st2, 40 at the end of st3 and maxed it out halfway through st4


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:44 pm 


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I gave it a shot, 2 runs on expert. Was okay.

I think positioning the module feels kind of like icky shit. Normally I'm a fan of IREM style gimmicky weapon systems, but in this kind of positioning intensive danmaku where flailing around can ruin a pattern, it just makes me wish for some type of lock shot or *gasp* mouse / twinstick aiming. Heresy, I know.

Also certainly not a macro game. Feels more rewarding to micro dodge anyway since you'll lose your module positioning and a whole lot of damage along with it if you try to sweep things. I honestly kind of like the Vanillaware guys take on point blanking in Devil Blade a bit better: telegraphed but fast and sparse 90's manic shooter style patterns give you more a sense of freedom and hype as you move in and out to point blank.

Might give it a few more shots to experiment with the hypering (Crimzon Clover Break and Double Break this is not, but it might be fun), but overall it strikes me as like Battle Traverse: A very competent, very competitive, very lovingly made game from a style and direction for the genre that I have no interest in and that doesn't speak to me at all.

Still, best of luck to them. I'd encourage others to try it out for sure.
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:21 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
2 runs on expert
Also certainly not a macro game

you don't find ways to get around patterns in 2 runs...

Squire Grooktook wrote:
I think positioning the module feels kind of like icky shit. Normally I'm a fan of IREM style gimmicky weapon systems, but in this kind of positioning intensive danmaku where flailing around can ruin a pattern, it just makes me wish for some type of lock shot or *gasp* mouse / twinstick aiming. Heresy, I know.

it's balanced around knowing what you're doing, not doing random stuff on your second credit
also it's literally the same as deathsmiles familiar control


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:35 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
you don't find ways to get around patterns in 2 runs...


Fair enough, but on some level you can get a feel for what a game is about if it's intuitive, and I don't see this being a particularly manic title.

Bananamatic wrote:
it's balanced around knowing what you're doing, not doing random stuff on your second credit
also it's literally the same as deathsmiles familiar control


I don't mind if it's not improvisation friendly, but on a game feel level it "feels" touchy and unpleasant to me aiming the damn thing. Like trying to micro dodge without a focus. I'd personally rather have more control and then have the difficulty balanced around having more control.

I'm also not a fan of Death Smiles either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Certainly not a deal breaker though, more a minor point.

Regardless it seems like a very high quality, well designed, and polished game regardless.
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:06 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
I don't see this being a particularly manic title.

set rank to 50


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:39 pm 


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Alright, will probably give it a try when I have time.
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:17 pm 


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shit game, worthless controls, waste of time
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:15 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
shit game, worthless controls, waste of time, suck it banana
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:52 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
shit game, worthless controls, waste of time

could you elaborate on that
preferably with a wall of text
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:57 pm 


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gimmicky copypasta gameplay appealing only to cavedrones, that's why doujins are worthless

power to the eXA
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:07 pm 


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you could at least point out the input lag that gets worse with slowdown
makes the tlb harder than it should've been

or really just slowdown in doujins in general
the only reason for slowdown in caveshit was because the hardware sucked
trying to emulate the feeling of hardware shitting itself when you could run the game several times at full speed is weird as hell design


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:15 pm 


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who cares about that if the game uninteresting anyway. how many years did these so-called celeb devs dragged around making that crap already?
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:29 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
gimmicky copypasta gameplay appealing only to cavedrones, that's why doujins are worthless

power to the eXA

So far the shmups that have been announced for the Exa are ports of doujin/indie games, a rerelease of an arcade game, and another CAVE-style game made by former CAVE devs.
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:32 pm 


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you miss the point, eXA is good because banana can't play the games
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:47 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
who cares about that if the game uninteresting anyway. how many years did these so-called celeb devs dragged around making that crap already?

aren't they making it in their spare time on no budget
it's still better than cave's late output with ridiculous deadlines that led to stuff like daifukkatsu 1.0


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:00 pm 


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one little poorjin after so many years, the cringe
you know in all the years you've waited and complained about sdoj you could have bought the pcb and a supergun just randomly begging in the streets holding a "cavedrone needs coin for his obsession" sign

anyway like all poorjins after comiket RG will be pirated and join people's collections or .rar and fall to oblivion. it's the fate of poorjins
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:56 pm 


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it's poojin, get it right


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:16 pm 


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poorjin, as in poor quality, made by devs with no money/time
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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:52 am 


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Xyga wrote:
poorjin, as in poor quality, made by devs with no money/time

how's that different from cave


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 Post subject: Re: Rolling Gunner: Side Scrolling Indie PC shmup 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:31 am 


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depends on the game in their library, lots are higher tier production value-wise and sport a well tailored system still making the flesh of competitive shmupping today, like, the reason why you among so many people got addicted and played the shit out of their games, which we all could see be you would never admit yourself since you're head to toes a funny dishonest contrarian who will only ever mention their screw-ups exclusively to support his useless 'lets systematically bash cave' poseur crap
keep dreaming about sdoj boi, only poorjins for you
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