General Gradius thread

[copy-paster]

The thread is brought up again, so here's my comment about PCE Gradius II Professional difficulty :

Professional mode is MAGNIFICENT! The enemy bullets now shoots faster, feels like a love letter for the fans of arcade Gradius I, and the boss parade is more scarier. There's a walkthrough from Seahawk with Type 1 ship if you really want to know, will clear the Professional mode with Type 3/4 ship in the near future.

[Perikles]

Not entirely sure if this is the ideal place to put it, a new thread seems unnecessary to me and the Gradius series plays an eminent role in it, so I might as well share my impression of HG101's The Unofficial Guide To Konami Shooters here. I'm just going to highlight what I see as distinct strengths and weaknesses:


+ It's hard not to be impressed by the thoroughness of this road map through Konami's history. It does live up to its title, indeed. The important series are all covered, of course (Gradius, Parodius, TwinBee), but also all the marginalia and obscure titles. From Falsion to Flak Attack and from Quarth to Hi no Tori, it's all there.

+ It even goes a step further than that: you'll find not only Konami shooters, but also spin-offs and even Gradius clones. The TwinBee series in particular is treated with a lot of scholarship, you'll find entries for the SFC platformer as well as for the PS1 RPG, there's an article about the puzzle game and another one for the seemingly vastly popular merchandise (radio drama, short films etc.). Concise, instructive information on the subject matter, structured in an exemplary manner.

+ There are rich pictures everywhere. It's notably great when a game has received several ports so that you can compare them side by side. Not only the established console ports are mentioned/depicted, the various home computer versions are, too (ranging from the X68000 to the C64). That and the neatly arranged overview of essential data makes for a pleasant flip through if you just want to get a quick glance at several games or a reminder on some crucial information.

+ The author is certainly knowledgeable when it comes to the facts. I spotted some negligible lapses here and there (he claims, for example, that "In The Wind" is the stage 1 theme in Gradius III, it's actually the stage 3 theme) but he even knows about rather esoteric tidbits. He's also passionate about the project which becomes very clear early on, although that's not always a positive (see below).


- It's more so a minor note, yet I was surprised by some of the priorities. The two Otomedius games are covered on no less than seven pages (with comparatively small pictures, those are fairly large treatises) while the Salamander 2 entry is garnished by huge pictures to somehow divert from the small text. More than half of the Quarth article is devoted to the version differences instead of the actual game. A few recensions feel padded as a result, although that is rare.

- Well, it's a HG101 product, alright. Which means that you can expect a lot of whining about inhumane difficulty, a focus on completely subaltern aspects of games and no mention of anything gameplay-related that's above superficial observation. That extends to some amusingly wrong assumptions and fairly annoying misconceptions. I'll quote a few passages so that you can get an idea:

On Gradius II (arcade):
The game's biggest problem is its lack of restraint - it throws so many huge obstacles, and floods the screen with so many enemies, that it eventually grows incredibly difficult.

On Gradius IV:
However, since this was designed for the arcades, it also heralds the return of the high difficulty of the earlier Gradius games. It sits slightly below the madness that is Gradius III, but it's about the same level as Gradius II.

On Salamander 2:
It's a short game, and while it's not as hard as Life Force, it still puts up a challenge.

On TwinBee Yahho!:
On the other hand, it's also way too short, and you'll blaze through all six stages before you know it. Because of this, like Salamander 2, TwinBee Yahho! could be considered a case of style over substance - it clearly lacks the length and variety of the Parodius titles - yet it accomplishes perfectly the creators' goal, to realize the ultimate anime shooter.

On Parodius Da! (arcade):
The difficulty has been lowered to match its lighter tone. While the arcade Gradius games technically offered various levels of difficulty, the easiest ones were still brutally difficult. Not so with Parodius Da!, where the lower levels are approachable for novices, while the higher levels still prove a challenge for experts.


He also extensively mentions whenever a game allows you to crank up the amount of lives to 9 or 20 (and he has the guts to complain about it sometimes as it makes them "too easy"), whether or not you can save mid-stage, continue as often as you want and all that. You can clearly deduct from the aforementioned screen shots that he always plays with the maximum amount of lives whilst toning down the difficulty to the minimum which makes for a slightly embarrassing sight.

Now, I'm aware of the target audience and HG101's reputation. And I don't expect, well, a veritable hardcore mentality, as ironic as it may be. But some of those above statements are just flat-out wrong or unworthy of any sort of "video-gaming journalism". Seriously, TwinBee Yahho! is nothing but the ultimate anime shooter? What a cringeworthy epithet to bestow. Scoring is never even mentioned for the Parodius and TwinBee series, although it's shockingly present when the Otomedius games are being discussed.

- On top of that, the author is quite opinionated. Axelay, for example, is "not only the best shooter on the SNES, but one of the best of the 16-bit console generation" while the SNES as a whole features a catalogue of titles which "while decent, pales next to the other 16-bit consoles". This is where I got somewhat miffed. I'm a huge proponent of quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi. It's one thing if someone really likes or even glorifies Axelay who has a fundamental understanding of the genre and has actually played some games to back this up. But this guy - passionate, intent on the technical details and overall enthusiastic he may be - has not even a clue about shmup gameplay and I'm willing to bet anything that he hasn't even played a fraction of the 16-bit portfolio. Again, I don't expect an expert, but a little bit of modesty would be appropriate considering that this guy probably has never even finished one shmup on Normal difficulty even with continues, much less without continuing.

- This obviously also affects his preferences. Games with a large roster of characters or multiple endings are eo ipso much better than those boring titles that have only a few selections, and something like Salamander 2 is "ultimately rather insignificant, because nothing about it really stands out". Yeah, that's what happens if you don't actually play those games, you FUCK.


Overall, I'd still recommend it for the presentation and the abundant dissemination of knowledge on countless things. There is even an oversight for all the Konami soundtrack CDs of shmups, for example. Just make sure to ignore almost everything in regards to the actual games, it might get stressful.

[pegboy]

Lol @ Gradius IV "being at about the same difficulty level as II". That's just hilarious.

As bad as those reviews are from a player's perspective it could be a lot worse: http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/08/04/ ... lus-review

[BIL]

Overall, I'd still recommend it for the presentation and the abundant dissemination of knowledge on countless things. There is even an oversight for all the Konami soundtrack CDs of shmups, for example. Just make sure to ignore almost everything in regards to the actual games, it might get stressful.

The HG101 experience, pretty much. I only rag on 'em because they're genuinely useful.

"What games and associated projects are in this obscure series/developer catalogue?" (HG101 provides facts)

"How do they play?" (HG101 provides cringe horror and IGN flashbacks)

To be fair, article quality can vary widely by author. There are some good ones on there that'd pass muster even in dens of curmudgeonry like ours. Just lots of howlers, too. ;3

Animated GIF: Local DJs react to Great Hits of HG101:

Spoiler

[Vludi]

Yeah that site is worthless aside from discovering some cool obscure titles, many of the reviews are just too shallow to say the least.

Here my favorite quote from the Ghouls 'n Ghosts article:
(the Mega Drive port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts) "also has a cheat mode where you can slow down the game, play it in Japanese, make Arthur invulnerable (you will be amazed at how difficult the game is even then), or select which level to begin at. Given that the game is essentially impossible without these cheats, this is easily the best version of the game and arguably the best platformer on the console. "

[BIL]

Arguably the definitive HG101. Credit feeding, sure, absolutely. An invincibility cheat... I guess it's better than not playing at all. Selling that as the definitive experience though...

With a headphones warning, I defer to mustachioed leather-clad 1980s metal nutter Mantas to express my WTF.

[cave hermit]

I recently got my PS2 replaced, so I've been trying to seriously get into Gradius V since I bought a copy for ~$30 a few months back without having seriously played it.

Absolutely fantastic game, nice looking, challenging, great sound design (that announcer is pretty much perfect for the game's tone), and while it isn't quite the same, it does have quite a bit of that Gradius feel to it.

I kinda miss the traditional upbeat theming with all the different planets, volcanos, moai stages, etc, although the cloudy subdued battleship raid theming works too.

It's also a little dumb that the more varied weapons have to be unlocked by beating the game first.

In particular, credits seem very lengthy, with long stages, cutscenes, not to mention there's a boss rush starting at the end of stage 2! Not really an issue with gameplay, but kinda makes it less pick up and play friendly since I gotta make a chunk of time to play it.

I also got GSM and tried running Gradius V in both 480p and 1080i. Honestly I can't really tell either apart from 480i, although 1080i seems to have 16:9 letterboxing.

[Blinge]

Here my favorite quote from the Ghouls 'n Ghosts article:
(the Mega Drive port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts) "also has a cheat mode where you can slow down the game, play it in Japanese, make Arthur invulnerable (you will be amazed at how difficult the game is even then), or select which level to begin at. Given that the game is essentially impossible without these cheats, this is easily the best version of the game and arguably the best platformer on the console. "

Whoever wrote that should be taken out and shot.

I kinda miss the traditional upbeat theming with all the different planets, volcanos, moai stages, etc, although the cloudy subdued battleship raid theming works too.

How far have you got so far? Just wait

I always pick type 2 for the free lasers, but that's not the *true* Gradius experience I suppose..

Ha yeah that cutscene is the longest minute and a half of my life, every time.

[cave hermit]

So far I can get through a decent chunk of stage 3, although I haven't yet tried using continues (I keep thinking, "but my score will be reset! What if I got a high score?!!" I never do in any case.)

Probably should start getting into the habit of credit feeding for arcade games in general, maybe I'll start getting somewhere if I do.

I'm also considering ordering the Gradius 3/4 double pack for PS2, but it would probably be for the best if for once in my life I actually stuck with a single game long enough to beat it :p

Still you never know how prices will change with out of print games, so I might still pick it up for later...

I do enjoy both 3 and 4 despite them being brutal gauntlets I've barely scratched the surface of... Fucking bubbles man...

[Ex_Mosquito]

Here's a 1-Life arcade replay + strategy/ audio commentary of the AC Gradius I made a couple of years ago. It may be useful for someone struggling with the first game. Once you have a few basic strategies down the first game is a real pushover.

https://youtu.be/QsiaXiWy6sI

[Perikles]

That's only true for the first loop, though. The first Gradius is the easiest arcade Gradius even when considering high-loop difficulty (it's the easiest main Gradius game beside console ports to be precise) but that doesn't mean it's simple to get past loop 3 and higher without some careful analysis. The last two checkpoints in stage 4 are easily as hard as the worst checkpoints in II which is to say they will utterly destroy runs. I'm eminently sad to say that this is mostly due to an inherent problem: the hit detection against bullets is way too unforgiving. Everyone mocks III for its peculiar if not downright silly design decisions (like those inflatable moai heads that cover absurd amount of space), I find the first game's regular hitbox to be much more offensive. Some of the later checkpoints require luck with suicide bullets since it's virtually impossible to dodge both the regular shots and the directly aimed suicide bullets at the same time. You can perform stunning tricks with the Vic Viper, immersing it halfway into a ceiling without consequences, but a bullet two pixels below the tip of the nose is an instant death. That's one of the small yet superb changes in the PCE port, they fixed that entirely.

[Vludi]

Playing Gradius II with Type 1, getting consistent at 2-4 feels great, also I practiced all the checkpoints in the base except the first which is pretty much impossible for me. That being said, I still find the first stage one of the most annoying on the loop.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm actually embarrassed to admit I've never played any Parodius or sister series Twinbee. What are the best places to start on that front*

*Looking for quality, not the easiest or most forgiving entry point, obviously.

[Mortificator]

My favorites are Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius (32-bit version) for the former, and TwinBee Yahho for the latter.

[Shepardus]

Gokujou Parodius is my personal favorite, but really all the arcade Parodius games (Parodius Da!, Gokujou Parodius, Sexy Parodius) and the Saturn/PSX/PSP version of Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius are great. The MSX Parodius has some neat art and music but its gameplay is painful. I haven't played any of the other ports/versions (unless you count the Saturn/PSX/PSP version of Da!, which is ostensibly like the arcade version but is actually a lot easier). It wouldn't be a bad idea to simply play the games in order (skip the MSX Parodius or maybe watch a video) so you can see the references later games make to their predecessors.

I wouldn't call TwinBee a sister series to Parodius, as the only gameplay similarities are the bell system and various other TwinBee references/cameos. Even the bell powers are different - in TwinBee they serve as your upgrades, while in Parodius they're more along the lines of special powers e.g. bombs and invincibility. But anyway, I like TwinBee Yahho and the PSP remake of TwinBee Da!.

TwinBee Da! (the PSP version at least) is really easy and quite short but also surprisingly fun and manic. It's also very forgiving for a TwinBee game in terms of hitbox, recovery, and bell juggling, making it less frustrating than other TwinBees. It's good, simple fun, without asking too much from the player.

TwinBee Yahho has great presentation and you should definitely check it out. It's got a variety of options and modes to make it a friendlier game than its arcade predecessors, such as a 3-stage "practice" course that also makes bell juggling easier, sort of like Armed Police Batrider and Battle Bakraid's training course. It also has more doable recovery than TwinBee or Detana TwinBee since it gives you several bells after dying. I know you said you're looking for quality rather than low difficulty, but those factors significantly improve the gameplay in my opinion, and the game's also arguably the most fully-realized entry in the series, both in style and gameplay. However, it builds on top of mechanics introduced in Detana TwinBee and the original TwinBee, so the sheer amount of stuff it contains can be overwhelming if it's your first TwinBee. You don't have to understand everything to enjoy the game, but you may want to start with TwinBee Da! or the original TwinBee (also a fun game, at least until you die) to familiarize yourself with bell juggling and other basic mechanics first before diving in.

[Perikles]

I'm having difficulties to forthright recommend arcade Parodius Da! with the 16- and 32-bit ports around; yes, it's a fun game, and it's a somewhat unique entry even among its own series (not nearly as focused on scoring as Gokujou and Sexy but at the same time not as accessible as Jikkyo). But that rank system is really something else. Penalizing players for picking a second speed-up has to be one of the worst ideas Konami has ever implemented: why would you do that in a game where a lot of the fun comes from spacing options and chasing after bells? Why am I condemned to crawl around the screen? I never even gave TwinBee a proper shot in the arcade version since it's so frustrating to cover screen space. On the other hand, acquiring a respectable score on the PS1 with TwinBee was enormously satisfying.

I would avoid all renditions of the MSX Parodius, even the revised PSP port is really awkward. The Famicom port of Parodius Da! is slow as molasses, the PCE port is missing two stages, so I'd stick to the superb SFC port or one of the 32-bit conversions. The 32-bit ports of Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius are arguably superior in every way, although that's not to say the original SFC game is a deficient game, it's quite the reverse - slowdown can be a massive problem, however (which is almost completely absent on SFC Da!).

My personal favourite is the 32-bit Jikkyo, it's not as "hardcore" as Gokujou and Sexy when it comes to the possibilities of scoring, but it does allow for more tricks than the straightforward Da!. Higher loops (which can also effectively be selected via the difficulty setting if I'm not mistaken; e.g. loop 4 on default settings is the same thing as difficulty level 7) get really demanding while the first two-and-a-half loops or so are a fairly relaxing round tour once everything is figured out. As Shepardus said, they're all excellent, though (with the above exceptions; I want to explicitly mention SFC Gokujou Parodius, too, that's a beautiful toned-down version of the arcade version just like Gradius III SFC).


My favourite TwinBee games are Pop'n and PCE Detana!!, with a honourable mention for the first arcade TwinBee, that's somewhat similar to the first Gradius as far as innocent, improvisational action is concerned (although not as good, of course ). The Famicom games are either too easy or too laborious with their bell juggling to be truly enjoyable, arcade Detana!!'s hitboxes are a crime against international law and I just hate Yahhoo!, so that's that. PSP Da! is indeed a pleasure to play, although it's unfortunately a bit short and easy which makes it hard to come back for substantial improvements.

[Shepardus]

I have to admit my relationship with arcade Parodius Da! is somewhat masochistic. The game's plagued with crippling slowdown almost as bad as Gradius III's, and the rank system is strangely fascinated with your speed ups, punishing you with a dramatic rise in the rate of rank increase should you choose to get more than one. But I kind of like getting speed ups and watching the game blow up on me, even if it doesn't help me actually clear the game... To me it's kind of like bumping up the autofire rate in Battle Garegga - it helps in the short term but punishes you in the long term, and you need to be mindful of when you get each speed up. For what it's worth, the 32-bit ports (PSP/PSX/Saturn) get rid of the slowdown and drastically tone down the rank (too much, in my opinion) while retaining the stage layouts, graphics, and music, so you can check those out if you want. If the arcade version's not hard enough for you, you can also overclock the game in MAME to get rid of the slowdown. I've gotten up to stage 7 like that and it's really something.

I initially didn't like Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius but after I figured out that you can turn off the announcer (in the PSX and PSP versions at least) and credit-fed through the game once with checkpoints disabled I ended up liking it much more. It gets off to a slow start on the default difficulty, some parts repeat themselves more than they ought to (looking at you, moai heads in stage 2), and some of the bosses take far too long to kill, but when it picks up it's really enjoyable. I tried difficulty 7 last night and highly recommend that; the first two stages in particular are greatly improved by the added intensity. The game's a bit long for my taste, but your mileage may vary; it could have been a bit shorter if it had cut out some of the repetition but there's also simply a lot of stuff in the game.

[Marc]

Goddamn Vulcan Venture's sixth stage. Been progressing quite nicely, stages 1-4 pretty much down, stage five is an occasional nemesis (see what I did there?), just seem to loose control occasionally. Don't have a solid route and relying more on my shitty reflexes than anything, but still clearing maybe 7 tries out of 10. Stage six.... it's an utter fucker. I hate to have more than one speed up, but this seems almost impossible without at least two, and the fact that it seems it needs to be memorised beginning to end seems a bit of a dick move in a game that has otherwise let me fly by the seat of my pants a little up until now. I'll crack it though.

[Shepardus]

I don't think it's all that reliant on memorization, but yes you definitely want at least two speed ups for that stage. With one speed up you probably do need to memorize a lot more to keep up. I personally prefer having two speed ups anyway so it's not a problem for me. If you really hate having two speed ups you can always commit suicide at the start of stage 7.

[Perikles]

I think the easiest way to handle the high-speed stages in II & III (SFC) would be to just hold the vertical position unless you have to move out of the way. If you preemptively change your vertical position (or constantly fly around, even) you might end up in places you're unfamiliar with or manoeuver yourself into dead ends. But you're definitely going to need a second speed-up, yes. I'm honestly amazed (in a positive sense, mind you!) that anyone can play a Gradius games with just one speed-up, I was having initial difficulties to play with three speed-ups before incorporating that, but I never felt comfortable with one; as I mentioned before, it bothers me to no end in arcade Parodius Da! that you can't have more than one without the game displaying behavioural problems.


Another interesting tidbit I learned from my recent III (SFC) mammoth run: you can definitely suppress suicide bullets in this one. It's enormously helpful in the beginning of stage 1 on high loops (which is the most crucial point of every loop) since you can hug the right side of the screen and shoot down the enemy formations without having to worry about retaliation. You can't just maintain the horizontal position and switch the vertical one once in a while due to other enemy ships that appear as well, but you can make your life a lot easier regardless.

[Kobayashi]

Posting in this topic to give a strength to my favorite classic shmup series. I hope someone smart who works at Konami read this topic and do something in order to convince them to produce the long-awaited Gradius VI, again under the able baton of Treasure that did an excellent job with Gradius V.

[Marc]

I don't think it's all that reliant on memorization, but yes you definitely want at least two speed ups for that stage. With one speed up you probably do need to memorize a lot more to keep up. I personally prefer having two speed ups anyway so it's not a problem for me. If you really hate having two speed ups you can always commit suicide at the start of stage 7.

Suicide? 5his game seems to be designed to be cleared on one life or not at all. Love it though.

[Vludi]

Recovery is doable anywhere in loop 1, except for maybe stage 3 crystals

[Shepardus]

Stage 7 is the boss rush, which starts off by giving you a ton of powerups.

[Kobayashi]

I really enjoy Parodius. The games of this series always contains beautiful graphics, great songs and a level design that pleases me. I think that one of the best features of this series is the variety of ships available, which each with peculiar weapons arrangements, making different the gameplay experience for each choice. The Gradius series doesn't have this variety, although Gradius Gaiden is the episode of the series that is closer to this feature, with some ships with different weapons configurations. By the way, which Parodius's ships you most enjoy to play? Well, my actual avatar already denounced me, but I have a great affection for the ship Pentarou, because I love the entrance tune for this ship and also due the great emotional memory that I cherish by the classic Konami games released for the MSX.

[Perikles]

Time for another exciting round of port archeology! Dabbled a bit with the PCE port of Gradius II today and have to add a few observations/remarks to my original post.

- Loop 2 suicide bullets are already of the delayed kind. No idea how I didn't catch that immediately last time, it's shockingly nasty. You'll see these in the arcade game from loop 3 onwards when an enemy fires more than one suicide bullet; the first one will always come out immediately, the one(s) afterwards might come delayed. In the PCE port on the other hand you'll have to expect a retarding effect even on loop 2.

- Not only are moais allowed to fire from off-screen, volcanoes also have slightly different behaviour from the arcade game in that regard as well. Needless to say it killed my run in loop 3.

- Tetran is much harder to hit which unfortunately drags the fight out.

- I really have to reiterate that the entire Club section needs a completely different approach. I'm not even sure as of yet how you're supposed to do this from loop 3 onwards without getting lucky with the suicide bullets. Playing pacifistically doesn't seem to impress the duckers much and I'm somewhat certain you're forced to use a different route on recoveries since Club moves differently.

- I didn't know at the time, but now I'm wondering if the PCE port is based on Vulcan Venture? I haven't played Vulcan Venture, but I can say that both it and PCE Gradius II share the same extend routine. Might be worth investigating!

- Could be pure speculation on my part, yet I think there's a moreso significant drop in difficulty in Gradius II when you die. I was able to get past loop 2's harder checkpoints (in the new MSX-themed stage as well as inside the fortress) fairly easy which usually doesn't happen when I play the arcade game. Possibly a fluke, I'll report more on it later.



On another note: I thought about adding a poll to the opening post which shall elicit the member's favourite games in the series. I would like to ask you guys two questions before creating that:

- Those polls only allow 10 separate items. I would offer the five canonical entries, Gaiden and ReBirth (more on that later, it's a surprisingly great title with the right expectations) on any account. That leaves three more choices. I could select the two GB games and the GBA game, or some of the MSX games, or a few selected ports of the main games, or a combination out of all of those, or none of them. I would probably go with I (Famicom), II (Famicom) and III (Super Famicom) since those are probably the most well-known/popular games while being distinct entities compared to their source material, but I would like to hear your opinions on that as well.

- How many games should one be able to pick? I want to say that three sounds like a good number in this case, one is not much at all and two neither fish nor fowl.

[Mortificator]

I would say to roll ports and remakes (like the first Game Boy game and Rebirth) together to cover as much as you can. Doing that, and excluding mobile phone releases, there are fourteen distinct games.

1. Gradius / Nemesis
2. Salamander / Life Force
3. Gradius 2 / Nemesis 2 / Nemesis '90 Kai
4. Salamander MSX
5. Gradius II: Gofer's Ambition / Vulcan Venture
6. Gofer's Ambition Episode II / Nemesis 3: The Eve of Destruction
7. Gradius III: From Myth to Legend
8. Nemesis / Gradius / Gradius Rebirth
9. Nemesis II / Gradius: The Interstellar Assault / Gradius II: The Return of the Hero
10. Salamander 2
11. Gradius Gaiden
12. Gradius IV: Revival
13. Gradius Advance / Gradius Galaxies / Gradius Generation
14. Gradius V

So you'd have to cut four.

[CStarFlare]

Salamander doesn't count and the MSX games are a curiosity to most people. That gives you a bit of space to spin out the especially distinct ports like Rebirth.

[e_tank]

- Those polls only allow 10 separate items. I would offer the five canonical entries, Gaiden and ReBirth (more on that later, it's a surprisingly great title with the right expectations) on any account. That leaves three more choices. I could select the two GB games and the GBA game, or some of the MSX games, or a few selected ports of the main games, or a combination out of all of those, or none of them. I would probably go with I (Famicom), II (Famicom) and III (Super Famicom) since those are probably the most well-known/popular games while being distinct entities compared to their source material, but I would like to hear your opinions on that as well.

my 10 picks would be:
1. gradius (arcade / x68k / psx / saturn / pce / famicom)
2. gradius 2 (arcade / x68k / psx / saturn / pce-cd)
3. gradius 3 (arcade / ps2)
4. gradius 4 (arcade / ps2)
5. gradius 5 (ps2)
6. nemesis '90 kai (x68k)
7. gradius gaiden (psx)
8. gradius rebirth (wii)
9. gradius 2 (famicom)
10. gradius 3 (sfc)

i agree that the nintendo console ports of 2 and 3 are sufficiently different from their arcade counter parts to be considered remixes and given their own spot. however 1 brings nothing new to the table, it's strictly a watered down port, so i think you're better off grouping it with the pce and other ports as just one title and letting ppl pick that entry for whatever version they may prefer.

- How many games should one be able to pick? I want to say that three sounds like a good number in this case, one is not much at all and two neither fish nor fowl.

3 picks sounds good to me

[Perikles]

Thanks for the input, guys!

I do want to restrict it to the core Gradius series, so no Salamander. To really do the series justice you'd have to offer several options anyway (there's no way I would create a poll without a separate entry for the PCE port which is vastly superior to the arcade game in my opinion), it would rather diminish those games to keep them as an appendage to the Gradius series I think.

e_tank definitely makes a valid point about the Famicom Gradius although I personally wouldn't be as strict - the altered scoring (hidden bonus points/lives, 500 points per capsule, skipping stages and gaining rewards for doing so, end-of-loop bonus, some altered values here and there) as well as some other changes turn this into an interesting rendition in its own right, but it's probably not different enough to justify an item on the list.

Nemesis '90 Kai looks fantastic, it is, however, very specific (the X68000 port of an MSX game), so I'm not sure if that would quite fit with the rest. I could use the last option for both GB games, I'm not a huge proponent of lumping different games together, but I'm going to venture the guess they're not going to fare that well against the other games as is so I might as well give them a better chance. The list would look like so then:

Gradius/Nemesis (Arcade/Famicom/PCE/X68000/PS1/SAT/PSP)
Gradius II/Vulcan Venture (Arcade/PCE/X68000/PS1/SAT/PSP)
Gradius II (Famicom)
Gradius III (Arcade/PS2/PSP)
Gradius III (SFC)
Gradius IV (Arcade/PS2/PSP)
Gradius V (PS2)
Nemesis & Nemesis II/Gradius: The Interstellar Assault/Return of the Hero (GB)
Gradius Gaiden (PS1/PSP)
Gradius ReBirth (Wii)

That would leave out all the MSX games (I agree with CStarFlare that most people are probably not too invested in them even in their revised form), Gradius Advance/Galaxies/Generation and Gradius Neo (which is for mobile devices and as such not really interesting). I could add the GBA game to the GB games to round up the "portable Gradius trilogy" despite the fact that it's obviously a completely different game than the first two GB games. What do you say?