Thank you, Special World.
I didn't wanna say anything else, but I came across Silpheed TLP again, and I got frustrated because that game gets trashed by people
much worse than R-Type Final. I kinda wanted to just talk about that game but I don't really have the patience right now. I'm just gonna say that mentioning it in the same breath as Sine Mora is a truly vile thing to do, and everyone who does it needs to eject themselves from this genre because they are a genuinely broken person (who has likely played
neither game, as well).
It's just not really possible to talk about R-Type Final because everyone frames it as a "bad" or "casual" game, largely out of ignorance and inexperience, and even damning it for things they ignore or praise in other games. Any conversation on this game cannot even begin without finally getting people to stop with this bullshit first.
Plasmo wrote:Not even Despatche.
Well, this is kinda the problem, Plasmo, this "not even" stuff. I get the impression that you're not really reading the things that I'm saying, and you're just filing me away as a "contrarian". Why? Because people do that to me all the time, and occasionally they'll even admit to refusing to read the things I say because they "don't care enough", while still trying to tell me it's a problem with my "personality" or whatever.
Here's the thing. People frame basically everything as personal opinion unless it's convenient for them to do otherwise. If people constantly frame everything as an opinion, no real discussion can be had because there's no foundation that everyone can stand on. Everyone keeps their personal definition of everything, and any opinion that gets "believed" by enough people becomes a fact, because a large group of people are saying the same thing. Even if the opinion in question is actually a bunch of lies about something, it can never be challenged in any way because it gets called an opinion over and over again.
If you actually go through the effort to show these to be lies and to prove them wrong, people still ignore you because they think you're "weird" (less than normal, unstable,
invalid) for seemingly caring so much about what they still believe to be an opinion. They don't really care that you're more frustrated about the lying than anything else. I am so tired of opinion because it means nothing. I am so tired of personal definitions of every little word that only mean anything to that specific person, if they actually mean anything at all.
All this ever does is lead to attacking people, not arguments. The definition of the word "argument" changed because of this, because people see arguing as nothing more than bickering over opinion, and not about solving problems and talking about things that are actually fucking
real.
There's a lot more to this that centers around games specifically, especially a lot of the discussions that happen in these forums, but I think this is enough for now. For example, a major topic is on how people don't really separate gameplay from aesthetic nearly as much as they should, and allow aesthetic to justify genuinely bad games while burying genuinely good ones. I am legitimately surprised this forum even took Sine Mora to task.
It doesn't need to be said that I don't really care about that Klabauter person. I don't know who they are and I get the feeling they're just trolling with nonsense. However, they have a point with the PinkSweets comparison, mostly because similar things have been brought up in the past. You gloss over this comparison, and once again put up this exploit you only just discovered that only applies to a very tiny part of the game, as some kind of shield that makes "your" game better. I don't really care which game is supposed to be better because it's not relevant to anything. I care that one is being propped up at the expense of the other, and in a very crude way. It's very disgusting.
Sumez wrote:However, I'd say there's a really good chance it's not by design. It's just an oversight, no reason to dwell on it.
See, you get it. I don't know why there's even this argument about "design" when we're literally talking about something that's probably an error. The timeout was probably only meant to be a few minutes and someone pressed the wrong button. The entire rest of the game, as well as how the exploit actually works, suggests that major exploits (i.e. counterstops) were to be avoided and that the scorekeeping was actually supposed to mean something, just like in Delta.
Friendly reminder that this applies to exactly one route of a game with branching paths, and these branching paths are more meaningful than something like Darius, because there's only so many of them and they are not simply a final stage. Also a friendly reminder that it is so easy to just ban the fucking thing if you really want. No, banning things is unthinkable for some reason, even when it clearly hurts the game. Some part of me is glad that people don't play Final precisely because of this.
Plasmo wrote:I like the more oldschool approach of shmups a lot and the R Type series in general is fantastic! However, Final is on last place in my ranking, even when only played for the clear. Compared to e.g. R Type 3, it just looks very bland to me. Unpopular opinion: I don't like R Type Delta. Shoot me.
III is arguably a bad game outright. You've got stage 1 to deal with every time you want to play the game, and then you have to put up with stages 3 and 4. Scoring is broken, and the choice of Forces is dumb: either play the game in the most boring way possible with the Standard Force, or have fun for a few minutes while you completely trivialize the actual fighting with the other two Forces. Loop the game and you get to do this once more.
Delta isn't nearly as bad with its ship balance, and Final isn't nearly as bad with its ship balance either because it's a long list of constantly improving designs that the player may pick and choose from. Plus, neither game completely sucks to actually play like III.
If you think any of the above is my opinion, or anyone's opinion, then I don't know what else to tell you.
My opinion is that I think III is a potentially cool game, and one day I would like to hack it to make it better. Another opinion is that all three games (III, Delta, and Final) are lacking quality of life features that are key to me. These mean
absolutely nothing and say
absolutely nothing about any game's quality, or about the people who designed them (disparaging people you cannot even begin to know happens
a lot in stupid opinion wars). That's what a personal opinion is
supposed to do.
