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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:53 pm 


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scrilla4rella wrote:
Like, imagine if Joe Destiny-loving-sixpack knew about Cave and arcade STGs from playing Progear no Arashi instead of oh, I don't know, Deathsmiles.

Joe Destiny-loving-sixpack has never heard of Deathsmiles either. If he's seen anything from CAVE at all, it's that "HARDEST VIDEO GAME BOSS EVER" video of Mushihimesama Futari.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:32 am 


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Probably shouldn't keep the off topic tangent going, but here's some sales numbers I found for NTSC-U localized shmups on the Dreamcast:
Cannon Spike: 18,150
Gunbird 2: 14,610
Bangai-O: 14,420
Mars Matrix: 13,393
Giga Wing 2: 8,716
Giga Wing: 8,653
source

I think all of these (except Bangai-O) were published by Capcom (though GB2 probably wasn't published by them in the arcades, but the others were). Pretty interesting statistics, IMO. I guess it makes sense that Cannon Spike would be the most popular since it actually features Capcom characters (though GB2 has Morrigan added to the DC port), and could easily trick someone into not realizing they were essentially playing a 2D shooter. Gunbird 2 kinda makes sense to me given that Psikyo was a pretty dominant shooter dev back then and was therefore probably relatively popular at the time among people who actually played shooters in arcades. Not to mention it came out in arcades in '98 when arcades were more relevant in general. Bangai-O makes sense thanks to Treasure having something of a cult following.

Not sure why Mars Matrix sold so much better than either Giga Wing. Much less accessible, worse graphics than Giga Wing 1 (tho maybe people liked the prerendered look back in 2000. Polygons were all the rage). There was a surprisingly positive review on IGN at the time, so that might be part of it. Maybe the music, too? IDK. It did have a lot of unlocks, I guess. Both cheesy stuff like more lives, shorter GHB charge time, starting with your ship at higher power levels, as well as useful stuff like stage practice, stage demonstration videos, and an arrange mode (I don't think many console ports of shooters had these in 2000).

Either way, those aren't great sales (Even cannon spike is ranked #218 / 250 by sales, and Giga Wing all the way down at #245). In fact, some of them (all of them?) were sold as budget games ($40, I think), and were likely heavily discounted by the time they actually sold in many cases, so that also limits profitability. TBH, I don't know what Capcom was thinking not only porting them but localizing them (wish I could find JP sales numbers).

Additionally, Progear came out in 2001, and the DC was already out of style at that point, so you know... probably wouldn't have been a wise choice. Though to be fair, '01 is also when GW2 port came out. Even weirder that that got ported then, especially considering how lame GW1 sales were. Maybe just for completion sake.

On the other hand, Progear did receive a North American arcade release--according to Wikipedia anyway--so there must have been some kind of a market for shmups even that late. Dimahoo also got released outside of Japan (not sure if EU or US). Also Progear has pretty incredible graphics which may have helped it, but then again, like I said, people were polygon mad at the time, so they probably would have been blinded by that.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:57 pm 



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LordHypnos wrote:
Probably shouldn't keep the off topic tangent going, but here's some sales numbers I found for NTSC-U localized shmups on the Dreamcast:
Cannon Spike: 18,150
Gunbird 2: 14,610
Bangai-O: 14,420
Mars Matrix: 13,393
Giga Wing 2: 8,716
Giga Wing: 8,653
source

I think all of these (except Bangai-O) were published by Capcom (though GB2 probably wasn't published by them in the arcades, but the others were). Pretty interesting statistics, IMO. I guess it makes sense that Cannon Spike would be the most popular since it actually features Capcom characters (though GB2 has Morrigan added to the DC port), and could easily trick someone into not realizing they were essentially playing a 2D shooter. Gunbird 2 kinda makes sense to me given that Psikyo was a pretty dominant shooter dev back then and was therefore probably relatively popular at the time among people who actually played shooters in arcades. Not to mention it came out in arcades in '98 when arcades were more relevant in general. Bangai-O makes sense thanks to Treasure having something of a cult following.

Not sure why Mars Matrix sold so much better than either Giga Wing. Much less accessible, worse graphics than Giga Wing 1 (tho maybe people liked the prerendered look back in 2000. Polygons were all the rage). There was a surprisingly positive review on IGN at the time, so that might be part of it. Maybe the music, too? IDK. It did have a lot of unlocks, I guess. Both cheesy stuff like more lives, shorter GHB charge time, starting with your ship at higher power levels, as well as useful stuff like stage practice, stage demonstration videos, and an arrange mode (I don't think many console ports of shooters had these in 2000).

Either way, those aren't great sales (Even cannon spike is ranked #218 / 250 by sales, and Giga Wing all the way down at #245). In fact, some of them (all of them?) were sold as budget games ($40, I think), and were likely heavily discounted by the time they actually sold in many cases, so that also limits profitability. TBH, I don't know what Capcom was thinking not only porting them but localizing them (wish I could find JP sales numbers).

Additionally, Progear came out in 2001, and the DC was already out of style at that point, so you know... probably wouldn't have been a wise choice. Though to be fair, '01 is also when GW2 port came out. Even weirder that that got ported then, especially considering how lame GW1 sales were. Maybe just for completion sake.

On the other hand, Progear did receive a North American arcade release--according to Wikipedia anyway--so there must have been some kind of a market for shmups even that late. Dimahoo also got released outside of Japan (not sure if EU or US). Also Progear has pretty incredible graphics which may have helped it, but then again, like I said, people were polygon mad at the time, so they probably would have been blinded by that.



These Capcom ports were $19.99 I was working at Software ETC. when they came out.

Pro Gear came out in the USA limited though. Dimahoo also had a USA release in Arcades. Those Capcom ports came and went quickly. SOLD super fast.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:37 pm 


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Too bad joe destiny-loving-sixpack never went to arcades to play progear easy label, if only they have made a shmup with buzz lightyear instead...
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:29 pm 


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Tokyo-J wrote:


These Capcom ports were $19.99 I was working at Software ETC. when they came out.

Pro Gear came out in the USA limited though. Dimahoo also had a USA release in Arcades. Those Capcom ports came and went quickly. SOLD super fast.

Wow, did not realize they were that cheap. Must have been a pretty sweet time for people who had previously spent a ton of cash importing PS/Saturn shooters. Pretty interesting anecdote, actually.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:04 pm 


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It's also worth noting that even in the late 90s~early 00s, the genre was pretty niche AND the DC had a relatively vibrant import scene (at least for a current console). The limited target audience for these kinds of games were often people who already bought the Japanese version and passed on the NA localized release. Cannon Spike was a notable exception - the NA version actually released roughly a month before the Japanese one, and for a far cheaper price. That's actually the reason I have the NA version of that game, whereas I got the JPN version of almost every other DC shooter at launch.

And greetings, fellow Software Etc. employee from that era! I might be able to take some tiny responsibility for Mars Matrix's relative performance, I pushed the hell out of that game just because it's a bit of a personal favorite :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:09 pm 


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Tokyo-J wrote:
LOL. I knew about Cave and was not even hardcore back in the day. Donpachi and Dodonpachi were released in the States in Arcades. Many people did import the console versions on PSX and Saturn long before Pro Gear was ever released. But I get it. He means a USA proper console release that could of built a cult status earlier.


Thanks for stating it better than I could. I was def playing Mars Matrix before I ever played Dodonpachi.

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scrilla4rella wrote:
Like, imagine if Joe Destiny-loving-sixpack knew about Cave and arcade STGs from playing Progear no Arashi instead of oh, I don't know, Deathsmiles.

Joe Destiny-loving-sixpack has never heard of Deathsmiles either. If he's seen anything from CAVE at all, it's that "HARDEST VIDEO GAME BOSS EVER" video of Mushihimesama Futari.


Maybe it's not be as common nowadays but I know several people who had no real concept of "shmups" as a genre until they got into Deathsmiles. I also remember several Youtubers, who didn't particularly focus on shooters or arcade gaming, suddenly glom onto Deathsmiles. No doubt the loli ascetic went a long way in getting attention.

Next to Mushihime Sama Futari, Deathsmiles has been Cave's biggest successes in garnering (some) mainstream attention. Feel free to disagree.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:31 pm 


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hamfighterx wrote:
It's also worth noting that even in the late 90s~early 00s, the genre was pretty niche AND the DC had a relatively vibrant import scene (at least for a current console). The limited target audience for these kinds of games were often people who already bought the Japanese version and passed on the NA localized release. Cannon Spike was a notable exception - the NA version actually released roughly a month before the Japanese one, and for a far cheaper price. That's actually the reason I have the NA version of that game, whereas I got the JPN version of almost every other DC shooter at launch.

Yeah, that makes sense. I wish there was some way to get numbers on copies imported to add to the North American release sales numbers. Also japan and europe sales numbers would be kind of interesting. Also, anyone know where I'd be able to find out how many copies of Deathsmiles sold in North America? Google seems to be letting me down.

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And greetings, fellow Software Etc. employee from that era! I might be able to take some tiny responsibility for Mars Matrix's relative performance, I pushed the hell out of that game just because it's a bit of a personal favorite :)

Nice! Hyping Mars Matrix back at release time was truly a worthy goal.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:47 pm 


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Tokyo-J wrote:
These Capcom ports were $19.99 I was working at Software ETC. when they came out.


All but Giga Wing 1. It was released at $50 and stayed there for quite a while (at least at FuncoLand where I worked at the time).


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:18 pm 


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OmegaFlareX wrote:
Tokyo-J wrote:
These Capcom ports were $19.99 I was working at Software ETC. when they came out.


All but Giga Wing 1. It was released at $50 and stayed there for quite a while (at least at FuncoLand where I worked at the time).

Haha, Funcoland, now that's a blast from the past!
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:46 pm 



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Edit: Ahh, nevermind. GSK on the previous page did mention it. Oh well. :D

Physical copy of the M2 ShotTriggers port was confirmed a few days ago. I didn't see this posted, so...

Quote:
The PlayStation 4 version of Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, first announced as an M2 ShotTriggers title in April 2017, will be released both physically and digitally in Japan, developer M2 announced at Cave Festival 2018 in Akihabara.


https://gematsu.com/2018/04/ketsui-kizu ... -for-japan


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:09 pm 


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For a game I already own, I am strangely excited by this.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:52 pm 


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mrmccormo wrote:
Edit: Ahh, nevermind. GSK on the previous page did mention it. Oh well. :D

Physical copy of the M2 ShotTriggers port was confirmed a few days ago. I didn't see this posted, so...

Quote:
The PlayStation 4 version of Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, first announced as an M2 ShotTriggers title in April 2017, will be released both physically and digitally in Japan, developer M2 announced at Cave Festival 2018 in Akihabara.


https://gematsu.com/2018/04/ketsui-kizu ... -for-japan


Hopefully they follow suit and bring this to the West, like they have with Gattle Garegga and Dangun Feveron, even if just digitally.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:21 pm 



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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:22 pm 



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I've noticed this strange pattern: when I visit this forum regularly there never seems to be any real exciting news, but whenever I don't visit this forum for a while something exciting in the shmup world ALWAYS occurs. It happened in the run-up to Christmas; I didn't realise a physical copy of Battle Garegga had been released until I was casually browsing this forum over the holidays. And now I've been absent recently, a physical release of Ketsui gets announced!

Right. I'm going to avoid coming here for 6 months ... then we'll FINALLY get Ibara Kuro! (physical, of course)


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:40 am 



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hamfighterx wrote:
It's also worth noting that even in the late 90s~early 00s, the genre was pretty niche AND the DC had a relatively vibrant import scene (at least for a current console). The limited target audience for these kinds of games were often people who already bought the Japanese version and passed on the NA localized release. Cannon Spike was a notable exception - the NA version actually released roughly a month before the Japanese one, and for a far cheaper price. That's actually the reason I have the NA version of that game, whereas I got the JPN version of almost every other DC shooter at launch.

And greetings, fellow Software Etc. employee from that era! I might be able to take some tiny responsibility for Mars Matrix's relative performance, I pushed the hell out of that game just because it's a bit of a personal favorite :)


I also worked there at the time.

The things people would say about shmups that now are worth more than any of the titles they were hyping back then...
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:30 am 


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Martinov wrote:
Right. I'm going to avoid coming here for 6 months ... then we'll FINALLY get Ibara Kuro! (physical, of course)

Ya, I'm also praying Ibara is the next Cave game M2 does. But DDP or DOJ are probably more likely for business reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:05 am 


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In their last Twitch stream

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/260070129

Cave played the 2007 festival version of Ketsui--they said it's the first time they've streamed it. This version is going to be in the M2 ShotTriggers release in some fashion; somewhere near the beginning of when their English speaking guy started talking about it, I'm *pretty* sure he said it would be DLC.

In the 2007 version, enemy bullets are much more plentiful, 5's are harder to get, and Doom shows up after you beat the last stage boss on the first run-through (and you can't continue against him).

Also, I think it was in their previous stream from a few weeks earlier (this one, I think: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254942169 ), he mentioned that after Ketsui, they have one more game they're working with M2 on for ShotTriggers--but of course he wouldn't say which game it was. (If his reply to a question about whether they would stream Progear next is any indication (something like "Isn't that the Capcom thing? Oh yeah we probably won't be able to get that set up"), then it probably won't be Progear. : P)


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:11 am 


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It looks like emulation without aspect ratio fix.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:05 am 


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smbhax wrote:
...they have one more game they're working with M2 on for ShotTriggers--but of course he wouldn't say which game it was...


If it's anything other than Batrider, disappointment.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:31 am 



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Batrider isn't a CAVE game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:05 am 


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Disappointment.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:51 pm 


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GSK wrote:
Batrider isn't a CAVE game.

Neither is Mahou Daisakusen
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:03 pm 


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cave said they are working on one more game with m2 not raizing foooo
we may see more raizing but that is not the news
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:36 pm 


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Oh also in that stream from a few weeks ago ( https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254942169 ), the English-speaking Cave guy related a funny little story about how was taking a board across town by train to M2--in retrospect, this was probably the Ketsui 2007 festival board--and he was terrified the whole way that he would drop it and thus--it being the only board for that version--wipe that game from existence. But he made it okay. ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:24 pm 


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will this get a domestic USA release like dangun feveron?
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:33 am 


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If they are working on one more game with CAVE, I would hope it's ESP Ra.de., Ibara, or DoDonPachi. In order of importance.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:21 am 


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Esprade with a Galuda-like arrange mode would be hilarious.
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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:57 pm 


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PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:
will this get a domestic USA release like dangun feveron?

I can't see it not getting one. We might even get a small international release depending on how many physical copies M2 makes.


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 Post subject: Re: Ketsui Coming to PS4 ?!
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:30 pm 



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evil_ash_xero wrote:
If they are working on one more game with CAVE, I would hope it's ESP Ra.de., Ibara, or DoDonPachi. In order of importance.


Esprade desperately needs a port. This would be the perfect choice.
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