Cheap RGB encoder for supergun

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Cheap RGB encoder for supergun

Post by iatneH »

Got some advice from matt a long time ago about hacking Genesis systems as RGB encoders instead of buying an expensive JROK or Neobitz.

I fried 2 Genesis systems and gave up for a while, but I discovered that a similar encoder circuit exists in PS1 systems. I managed to make a working hack today with quite satisfactory video quality, so I just wanted to show off...er...share, since half the cost of building a supergun is the RGB encoder, and this is how to build one for dirt cheap.

The PS1 core unit was given to me as a non-working system for FREE. All I had to buy was a digital controller, a DB-9 male connector, and a DB-9 plastic cover (the AC and A/V cables are the same as a PS2). Altogether this encoder came to about CAD$8. Pretty good compared to USD$78 for the JROK plus another CAD$10 to enclose it nicely with a box and external connectors (not to mention border duties for the JROK).

There are many hardware revisions of PS1, so I can't guarantee the motherboards will look the same. But look for a Sony chip that has a number like CXA1645 or CXA1145 or something. Typically it should be close to A/V out socket. Mine was an early weird model with the chip really far away.
You will need to cut the RGB and sync lines from the PS1 itself and feed in your own lines. Starting from the IC, trace the RGB lines past the first capacitor and cut the lines there. You can cut the sync line right at the IC. This is the hardest part since you might have to trace lines to the other side of the motherboard and the traces are very complicated. Audio was easier since I soldered it to the mobo right at the A/V connector. I didn't even bother cutting the audio from the PS1, since it only makes sound during bootup, and then is silent while it idles at the dashboard.

After soldering in your own lines to where you cut the original ones, you need to connect them to your supergun somehow. I didn't feel like doing any external modification, so I found a way to feed in through the P1 controller port. It costs a controller more than simply using another DB-9 socket, but I HATE having to mount DB connectors. So I just disconnected the controller board ribbon cable and soldered the video and audio lines to the controller board. Chopped the cable off the PS1 controller and stuck a DB-9 on the loose end.

There is also video ground, which I connected straight to ground on the PS1 mobo, and audio ground. Audio ground is a weird one. At first I also connected it to ground but it was causing interference with the video. I disconnected audio ground completely and now both audio and video work fine.

Here are some pictures..

Image
Underside of the mobo. R, G, B, video ground, mono audio, and audio ground (ignore the light green one, I ended up disconnecting it).

Image
Top of the mobo, with composite sync connected straight to the IC. Hacking surface mount ICs is pure Hell.

Image
Mobo and controller ports screwed back in place, and power restored to the mobo from the power supply. The CD drive is completely disconnected.

Image
RGB input through the controller port.

Image
Woot! Looks decent through composite video. Pretty damn good with S-video. The colours are a bit bright though.

So that's all... It's certainly not an elegant or pocket-sized solution like a JROK, but it was only about a tenth of the cost. If anyone's on the fence about going JAMMA but worried about cost, I hope this helps...
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by elvis »

Absolutely brilliant hack! Busted PSX units go on eBay for as little as $10. I'd never even considered using their RGB conversion circuits before! I'll be picking a few up for some home projects soon I think.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

Great idea!!

Wondering doing just that on a PS2 for conponet vedio out. When PS2 becoming dirt cheap.

Geting RGB from the PS2 PCB.
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... 2_rgb_sync

Considering hacking a PSOne right now.

BTW, does it work on CPS2, i.e. 24kHz ?
Or
Board with less than 60fps ?
Last edited by SAM on Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by elvis »

SAM wrote:Wondering doing just that on a PS2 for conponet vedio out. When PS2 becoming dirt cheap.
The PS2's output is controlled by software. ie: you need to set RGB/YCrCb output via the console's software, as they use the same output pins.

You won't be able to use the PS2's guts for the same trick, unless you know how to program the encoder chip via hardware.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

elvis wrote:
SAM wrote:Wondering doing just that on a PS2 for conponet vedio out. When PS2 becoming dirt cheap.
The PS2's output is controlled by software. ie: you need to set RGB/YCrCb output via the console's software, as they use the same output pins.

You won't be able to use the PS2's guts for the same trick, unless you know how to program the encoder chip via hardware.
You are right, I forgot about that. GameCube might just be the right choice. Any possibility?
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

Don't forget that component video for GameCube requires an expensive cable.. if you're going to spend money to buy a GameCube and its component cable, you might as well buy a Neobitz encoder with component output.

The point of my hack was to make an encoder with passable video quality for cheapasses :)
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by elvis »

SAM wrote:You are right, I forgot about that. GameCube might just be the right choice. Any possibility?
I have a bad feeling it falls in the same boat as the PS2, but I don't own one so I can't confirm.

Also of note, different region GC's have different outputs on them. From memory, some are missing RGB, and some are missing component. Again, you'll need to research that a bit more, or hope a kind soul who knows more about them answers here.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

Back to your mod PSOne, what PCBs have you tested on it?
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you SAM..

I tested it just now with CPS-2 and ST-V, and all of the screen is still visible with both, as it was with MVS. The colours are still too bright though. I recommend adding some potentiometers to the RGB lines when you do the mod.
There is a very slight horizontal jumpiness with CPS-2, but it's pretty much only noticeable on the bootup screen text.
ST-V looked perfect aside from the bright colours I mentioned.

What's more worrisome is my bootleg Progear, which used to boot up as Japan on my green A board and USA on my blue A board, now boots up as USA on both my A boards :(

But at least my Great mahou daisakusen HASN'T suicided yet.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

iatneH wrote:I tested it just now with CPS-2 and ST-V, and all of the screen is still visible with both, as it was with MVS. The colours are still too bright though. I recommend adding some potentiometers to the RGB lines when you do the mod.
There is a very slight horizontal jumpiness with CPS-2, but it's pretty much only noticeable on the bootup screen text.
ST-V looked perfect aside from the bright colours I mentioned.
GREAT!!! :D I am to to mod a PSOne like that!!! :o

I could then playing Progear on the big TV in the living room and stop playing Flying Shark on my RGB monitor horizontally.
Last edited by SAM on Sun May 28, 2006 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

SAM wrote:More infomation, JROK doesn't work on CPS2 :evil: , at least for Progear. :cry:
That's interesting since I've been using a JROK with my Progear all along. Although it's a bootleg Progear but I don't think that should make a difference.
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by elvis »

SAM wrote:EDIT: More infomation, JROK doesn't work on CPS2 :evil: , at least for Progear. :cry:
Can you expand on "doesn't work"? You aren't getting sync? Sync is there but the picture rolls? No picture at all?
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

I try to connect Progear to TV via JROK S-vedio out. It got a black screen with occstional white lines. :o

Am I suppose to adjust those three knots on the JROK unit? :oops:
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
undamned
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Phoenix

Post by undamned »

elvis wrote:
SAM wrote:Wondering doing just that on a PS2 for conponet vedio out. When PS2 becoming dirt cheap.
The PS2's output is controlled by software. ie: you need to set RGB/YCrCb output via the console's software, as they use the same output pins.

You won't be able to use the PS2's guts for the same trick, unless you know how to program the encoder chip via hardware.
Not true. I'm not saying the hack will work, but about only being able to select RGB/YCrCb output via the console's software is not true. Here's the jumper mod for it:

http://niga.sytes.net/game/ps2rgb.html
people wrote:stuff about gamecube
The cube doesn't output component, the expensive cable does. The plug of the cable actually has electronics in it that do some work on the cubes output signals (probably a digital stream). I would stear clear of that route.
-ud
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by elvis »

undamned wrote: Not true. I'm not saying the hack will work, but about only being able to select RGB/YCrCb output via the console's software is not true. Here's the jumper mod for it:

http://niga.sytes.net/game/ps2rgb.html
Excellent information! Thanks for the link.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

My friend and I are about to do this mod. We have already purchased a 2nd handed PlayStation ($30) for this purposes.

I have done some more research on this and found:

PS1 AV Pinout
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:playstationav

Geting the Sync from the PlayStation 1 Mother Board
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... ion_1_sync

More info about the Sony CXA1645 or CXA2075 chips
http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showt ... #entry1018
http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=180

The key chip of this project could be purchased at the following online seller:
http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/items2 ... e=#K-00018
(RS Electronic Devices doesn't got it in stock. :( )

*********************************************

Currently looking for the CXA1645 datasheet. Any one got it? :o
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

SAM wrote:Currently looking for the CXA1645 datasheet. Any one got it? :o
Found
http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/cxa1645.pdf

EDIT:
By just looking at the Data Sheet, it seems that you only need the CXA1645 / CXA2075 chip, a few caps & resister and +5V power supply to have the vedio encoding job (RGB to Composit Video / S-Video) done. :)
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

SAM wrote:My friend and I are about to do this mod. We have already purchased a 2nd handed PlayStation ($30) for this purposes.

I have done some more research on this and found:

PS1 AV Pinout
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:playstationav

Geting the Sync from the PlayStation 1 Mother Board
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... ion_1_sync

More info about the Sony CXA1645 or CXA2075 chips
http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showt ... #entry1018
http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=180

The key chip of this project could be purchased at the following online seller:
http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/items2 ... e=#K-00018
(RS Electronic Devices doesn't got it in stock. :( )

*********************************************

Currently looking for the CXA1645 datasheet. Any one got it? :o
Wow, I wonder why I never found those pages at gamesx since I use it as a resource all the time...
SAM wrote:
SAM wrote:Currently looking for the CXA1645 datasheet. Any one got it? :o
Found
http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/cxa1645.pdf

EDIT:
By just looking at the Data Sheet, it seems that you only need the CXA1645 / CXA2075 chip, a few caps & resister and +5V power supply to have the vedio encoding job (RGB to Composit Video / S-Video) done. :)
Of course, the caps and resistors are already connected on the motherboard, so you just need to find where they are so that you don't need to use your own. I didn't want things to get too complicated so I left the whole motherboard intact, and also relied on the PS1's own power supply instead of feeding in +5V externally.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

iatneH wrote:Of course, the caps and resistors are already connected on the motherboard, so you just need to find where they are so that you don't need to use your own. I didn't want things to get too complicated so I left the whole motherboard intact, and also relied on the PS1's own power supply instead of feeding in +5V externally.
Using an used PlayStation is definately a cheaper option :) , since just the CXA1645 chip alone costs $10, not to mesion the oscillator circult, power supply, all the caps and resisters AND the trouble to put them all together. :o

For $30 we acquired an used PlayStation, it even comes together with a game pad. :twisted:
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

Did you get one of the big old Playstations? Or is it the small PSOne??
$30 is a lot for a Playstation.... Or is it HKD$30 :D
kemical
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:14 am
Location: Tokyo

Post by kemical »

you can do this on the tiny 3rd generation genesis, I bought one real cheap on ebay a while back and had games running in S-video just by carefully touching the wires to the sony chip (lol), and then the output runs out the genesis video av plug. It needed some 75ohm resistors on the RGB input to look right if I remember correctly. I still have the system, maybe eventually I will convert it permanently, it's also a nice size to have a jamma connector built in with the control ports working etc..
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

iatneH wrote:Did you get one of the big old Playstations? Or is it the small PSOne??
My friend bought it, I have seen it yet, so I don't know. :o
iatneH wrote:$30 is a lot for a Playstation.... Or is it HKD$30 :D
It is 30 USD for a used PlayStation, everything on this island costs more than elsewhere of the world. :(

BTW, it a moded Japanese PlayStation, the only purposes of modding I could think of is to play bootlegs... :roll:

Well, unless the previous owner want to play import games (i.e. US games) on it. :lol:
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

kemical wrote:you can do this on the tiny 3rd generation genesis, I bought one real cheap on ebay a while back and had games running in S-video just by carefully touching the wires to the sony chip (lol), and then the output runs out the genesis video av plug. It needed some 75ohm resistors on the RGB input to look right if I remember correctly.
I know it's also possible to do it on a Genesis 1 (and a Genesis 2 but without S-video). But I did it on a PS1 because they're cheaper and more readily available than Genesis systems. I've never seen a Genesis 3 in my life :\
SAM wrote:It is 30 USD for a used PlayStation, everything on this island costs more than elsewhere of the world. :(
Aww really? I remember going nuts buying all sorts of really cheap game stuff in Sham Shui Po....
User avatar
matt
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:46 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Re: Cheap RGB encoder for supergun

Post by matt »

iatneH wrote:There are many hardware revisions of PS1, so I can't guarantee the motherboards will look the same.
IIRC you need a 3001 or earlier.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

I have soldered wires to the CXA1645 chips, and successfully have the chip convert RGB singels from my MegaDrive and Progear (CPS2). :)

But I failed to disconnect the vedio in from the PlayStation... resulting in a unstable interferancing screen. :?

I would try lifting the connected pins from the PCB tonight. :o
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

I lifted the Red, Green, Blue & Composite Sync pins (Pin 2, 3, 4 & 10), connect wires directly to them. The Red, Green, Blue line are each connected to a 0.1uf capacitor at the end. All the other pins of the CXA1645 is left untouched.

When connecting the lines to MegaDirve via RGB, gives a screen only in Blue color. Every things just turned into blue. :?

The same setup is then connecting to CPS2, it got a heavy blue hue and the screen is got lots of horizontal jumpiness...

I orginally thought the Red and Green is not connected properly. But when I touches the bear metal region of the Red Or Green wire, the screen got fresh of the of the said color. This lead me to believe that the two wire is properly connected to the pins of the chip.
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

SAM wrote:I have soldered wires to the CXA1645 chips, and successfully have the chip convert RGB singels from my MegaDrive and Progear (CPS2). :)

But I failed to disconnect the vedio in from the PlayStation... resulting in a unstable interferancing screen. :?

I would try lifting the connected pins from the PCB tonight. :o
Did you solder your lines directly to the chip? I used a knife to cut the lines on the PCB so that I could use the capacitors that were already on the motherboard, instead of adding my own. But I had to use a very good magnifying glass to make sure I was tracing the correct lines.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

iatneH wrote:Did you solder your lines directly to the chip? I used a knife to cut the lines on the PCB so that I could use the capacitors that were already on the motherboard, instead of adding my own. But I had to use a very good magnifying glass to make sure I was tracing the correct lines.
Yes, I solder my wires directly to the pin of the chip. Since I got difficulty in tracing the lines on the PCB as it run under the chips and then to the other side of the PCB and there is another chip on the other side!!

In stead of risk cutting the wrong lines and breaking the video chip set, I decide to carefull seperate the RGB input pins of the chip from the PCB and directly solder the wires on them.

I the test run last night, I connected the RGB in wires without serperating the pins. The resulting screen is an interferance (showing the MD input screen with a freshing Sony PlayStation Startup logo.) with color.

After seperating the pins from the PCB tonight, I got mono color screen in blue MegaDrive and lots of horizontal jumpiness with CPS2 with benched color.

*****************************

Could that be the quality of the Caps ?

As a secound thought, I might the ground wire of the video in worngly connected, I currently connect it to the ground of the PlayStation PCB (The Ground Pin of the Vedio Out Jack). :?
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
User avatar
iatneH
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by iatneH »

When I did the hack using a Megadrive, I soldered directly to the IC, and used my own capacitors and got a very jumpy and unstable picture. The value of the capacitors was not exactly as stated on the data sheet, which is why for the PS1 hack I opted to use the capacitors that were already on the motherboard.

If you want to cut the lines, use a magnifying glass when tracing.... then check it like 10 times to make sure you have the correct one before cutting it ;)

I cut them one at a time and booted up the PS1 to make sure that I was only losing one colour at a time... I found sync to be the hardest one to trace, but it requires no caps so you can lift it off the PCB.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:27 am
Location: A tiny nameless island in South China Sea

Post by SAM »

iatneH wrote:When I did the hack using a Megadrive, I soldered directly to the IC, and used my own capacitors and got a very jumpy and unstable picture. The value of the capacitors was not exactly as stated on the data sheet, which is why for the PS1 hack I opted to use the capacitors that were already on the motherboard.

....

I cut them one at a time and booted up the PS1 to make sure that I was only losing one colour at a time... I found sync to be the hardest one to trace, but it requires no caps so you can lift it off the PCB.
So in short, there is something with the Capacitors on the RGB-in lines that we don't understand. Thus for our purpose, it would be best to retain the orginal capacitors to ensure success.

I would check and see if I could reconnect those lifed pins to the PCB (I might already have the contacts on the PCB damaged).
*Meow* I am as serious as a cat could possible be. *Meow*
Post Reply