Future STGT Guidelines (STGT '08 Rule Changes?)

[Rob]

It hast also had a pretty active highscore thread in this forum.

A point against, right?

[Davey]

Doujin week would be cool if we all ran Windows on non-ancient PCs, but that's not the reality of the situation. The least common denominator shortlist would probably be lacking in variety and/or quality.

I'd be weary of using Virtual PC for shmups... I haven't used it, but I imagine you'd run into problems with performance and/or compatibility. Maybe one our Macs users here can enlighten us? In any case, it's not free.

[Icarus]

Virtual PC sucks ass. I wouldn't even waste hard drive space with it.

[Edge]

Since not everyone is that excited about the idea of playing doujin shoot'em ups on the STGT and if we have a doujin week we'll risk lower accessibilty I am currently leaning toward the concept of staying MAME-focused. Though I wouldn't rule out doujins entirely. Maybe I should open a voting thread to see how popular/unpopular that idea is and if it's worth the risk. I also wrote Postman a PM, maybe he can help us organize a doujin week?

Anyway I think we could step to the next question for now and later return to the subject.

So:

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Hold posting Individual Results and rankings until a few weeks in?

I say no!
Seeing the results every week is one thing which makes this thing way more entertaining and exciting. Posting the results later or at the end of the STGT kills a lot of the joyful excitement. The struggle about postions are very entertaining and motivating to keep you playing, you also get instant feedback for your performence this week. A big plus for socializing and motivation in my opinion.

[Danny]

I say no to due to all the reasons that Edge has just pointed out in his post.

[Icarus]

Since not everyone is that excited about the idea of playing doujin shoot'em ups on the STGT and if we have a doujin week we'll risk lower accessibilty I am currently leaning toward the concept of staying MAME-focused. Though I wouldn't rule out doujins entirely. Maybe I should open a voting thread to see how popular/unpopular that idea is and if it's worth the risk. I also wrote Postman a PM, maybe he can help us organize a doujin week?

Seconded. Wait until the next STGT before doing a doujin week.
Or perhaps assist someone who wants to run a doujin-only STGT?

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Hold posting Individual Results and rankings until a few weeks in?

I say no!
Seeing the results every week is one thing which makes this thing way more entertaining and exciting. Posting the results later or at the end of the STGT kills a lot of the joyful excitement. The struggle about postions are very entertaining and motivating to keep you playing, you also get instant feedback for your performence this week. A big plus for socializing and motivation in my opinion.

I say no too, for same reasons. Besides, if people know how you calculate your points, they can do the legwork themselves and get an idea of the table structure for the week (see namakoHQ's STGT '06 forum, weeks 4 and beyond ^_-).

[P_HAT]

Or perhaps assist someone who wants to run a doujin-only STGT?

nice idea, btw.

[Pirate1019]

I say post the rankings. There will always be those people with their wrist calculators ready to find any little number you withold from them so you might as well just post it.

[Super Laydock]

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Hold posting Individual Results and rankings until a few weeks in?

I say no!
Seeing the results every week is one thing which makes this thing way more entertaining and exciting. Posting the results later or at the end of the STGT kills a lot of the joyful excitement. The struggle about postions are very entertaining and motivating to keep you playing, you also get instant feedback for your performence this week. A big plus for socializing and motivation in my opinion.

Agreed!
Why would one even consider not posting them until later in the tourney?
I can see absolutely no good reason at all for that and you´ve summed up all the good reasons not to do this.

[DJ Incompetent]

The issue was trying to keep players who weren't placing high on charts right away to not be immediately discouraged enough to bail out early. The idea behind this was to indirectly build participation momentum for all players so it could be reinforced that this is a team event; getting people to stay with it slightly out of habit may reduce the chances of player decline every week like most of last year. There were flaws in this idea up-front, but it was worth exploring.

No

QUESTION

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Should we start a ‘late entry team’  (with restrictions)

I know the registration period is a really long time, but you know people are going to come late anyway. Should we create any further late deadlines or force latecomers to a dedicated "Late Team" or just say no altogether. Is a month+ to register enough?

So far, the known cutoff for latecomers is immediately after the first scoring week starts.


I had notes for this. I'll look for them if this idea shows any positive interest.

Personally, I don't mind deadline cutoffs as they are, but these ideas were created based on forum complaints a year ago in the effort to raise tournament participation. And so it gets its chance.

[shoe-sama]

If they can put a team together before the compo starts, I have no issues with that. If there's still people floating around without a team a day before the first playweek however, just stick 'em all on the late team.

[Shatterhand]

IMO, as soon as the first playweek starts, no more entries should be accepted. Before the 1st day of competition, any team should be able to join, teams change their rosters or anything. As soon as the competition starts, no more changes may be done, and no one should enter anymore.

That's my view on this

[Pirate1019]

If they can put a team together before the compo starts, I have no issues with that. If there's still people floating around without a team a day before the first playweek however, just stick 'em all on the late team.

[Davey]

Is a month+ to register enough?

Yes.

The difference between this year and last year is that:
1.) This isn't the first time we're doing this
2.) Recruitment threads have already started like 4 months before the competition
3.) We've been discussing the rules for six months (!)

Basically, anybody who casually reads the board has been well aware of this thing for a long time now, it's not like it's sneaking up on anybody. So I agree with Shatterhand.

[Edge]

I also agree with Shatterhand.
Additionally late entry teams could unbalance the playing field. And this rule could also be abused by people to just join their favourite game.

1 month should be enough to sign up. Most players are already aware of the existance of the STGT anyway. And it keeps the organisation simpler.

[Super Laydock]

Can I suggest the shmup made by myself, "Space Disorder" ?

hehe

If you can actually make it work on any pc before even thinking about mac compatibility.... then yes.

I also agree with Shatterhand.
Additionally late entry teams could unbalance the playing field. And this rule could also be abused by people to just join their favourite game.

1 month should be enough to sign up. Most players are already aware of the existance of the STGT anyway. And it keeps the organisation simpler.

Totally agreed.

[Danny]

I agree with Shatterhand as well, it's not like we are hiding this trouney from anybody now is it?

Saying that though people who have literaly joined the forum as the trouney starts might have a little bit of a problem with it but then again there is a much bigger chance of new forum users missing weeks when they start to lose etc.

[Shatterhand]

I agree with Shatterhand as well, it's not like we are hiding this trouney from anybody now is it?

Saying that though people who have literaly joined the forum as the trouney starts might have a little bit of a problem with it but then again there is a much bigger chance of new forum users missing weeks when they start to lose etc.

There's always next year


Laydock, Space Disorder was CREATED in a Pentium 233mhz with 32mb of Ram. It ran on it flawlessly. I guess everyone here who owns a PC has a better setup than this .

I'll put it online somewhere so who doesn't know it can check it out. Though it was made in 2002, it would be perfect for an "old-school week" I guess

[Edge]

In order to not get stuck, so close to the finishing line:

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Somehow arrange a private off-site team forum for every team?
Subquestion: Somebody setup an off-forum site for needed STGT roms and emus?

Nah, I think this is really not neccessary to be set up by the organizers. It would mean a lot of extra work. Every team can create a forum on their own, if they like to. And teams who wish to use such private forums will probably set up or already have their own, anyway. And regarding the emus and roms, probably everyone knows where to get those and also I think the forum administration wouldn't like us to see linking the roms & emus. If someone really can't find a rom, then he can simply pm his teammates or the organizers.




And Sorry, if I am putting up two point at once, but I think they are kinda related. So...

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Try to utilize multi-language software to recruit Japanese, Korean, other Europe parts, other South America parts, etc.

Same as above. It means a lot of extra work and I am not quite sure if it is worth. Asian players probably won't be interested in our little tournament anyway. And other western shoot'em up fans may probably already know about this site and the STGT. If they do not speak ANY English at all, than the language barrier would probably mean to many complications during the tournament anyway.

[Shatterhand]

Last year I recruited one brazilian to our oldschool team... he then begun posting here, but now I think he isn't posting anymore (Though I know he still reads the forum). The language barrier indeed is a serious issue.

There's an orkut community for brazilian shmuppers. We are like... 10 people, heh

[P_HAT]

The language barrier indeed is a serious issue.

Yeah...

May be open "International section"
For all non-english speaking users?

[Icarus]

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Somehow arrange a private off-site team forum for every team?
Subquestion: Somebody setup an off-forum site for needed STGT roms and emus?

Team forums should be organised by teams themselves, if they desire the usage of one. There are a few free forums available, just need to work out which ones are decent enough to use.

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Try to utilize multi-language software to recruit Japanese, Korean, other Europe parts, other South America parts, etc.

Too much work for the time being, but would be something nice to look into for STGT '08 if it happens. A true international STGT would be an awesome thing. (And lots of work for Edge and DJI. ^_-)

[Edge]

Last year I recruited one brazilian to our oldschool team... he then begun posting here, but now I think he isn't posting anymore (Though I know he still reads the forum). The language barrier indeed is a serious issue.

There's an orkut community for brazilian shmuppers. We are like... 10 people, heh

Well, taking part in the STGT with almost no English skills is absolutely possible and encouraged by me too. But the advertising in forums in different languages is a bit too much for the organisation of an online tournament. Though if any of you guys is also active in a shmup forum in a different language it would be cool if you'd try to pull some more people into this thing. For taking part you reallly just have to understand the rules and simply post your scores. And I think no matter what language you speak someone of this is forum may help out if new people wouldn't understand the rules at all (language barrier).

But this is something which is in the hands of all users, nothing the organizers have to ensure. In my opinion at least.

[DJ Incompetent]

No. Every team must provide for themselves.
&
Nothing official. People are encouraged to spread the word of STGT on their own

FINAL QUESTIONS

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Methods to keep the lower-placed people playing (Remixing the Red Lantern Prize)

Aside from the Red Lantern idea, is there any other ideas or gimmicks to suggest that could reduce discouragement to play for non-top players? An option to host a lower tier was already eliminated.

Concerning Red Lantern, I like the idea, but if anybody puts another one up (by all means optional), it should go to the lowest scoring player who has also played all weeks. That be my input..

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Brainstorm any kind of options for team rewards

What is there multiple of that a group of winners would want? Shirts? Beta Testing? Hard Drive? Really Cheap Game? Controllers? Memory Card? Custom-Avatar? Custom-____? Trophy?

[Icarus]

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Methods to keep the lower-placed people playing (Remixing the Red Lantern Prize)

I have nothing to suggest for this, as I feel it is entirely up to whoever offers up the Red Lantern Prize each time. Perhaps if there are multiple generous benefactors, offer up a prize for the lowest three placed players who have played all weeks?

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Brainstorm any kind of options for team rewards

A framed, professionally designed certificate for all team members or something? When I say "professionally designed" I mean nicely designed, with some kind of stamp/watermark for the official look, in a nice frame. Something you'd be happy to have on the wall.

Something like "Team Champions '07" for the top placed team, and "GAME OVER! Why don't you try hard?" for the lowest placed team? ^_-

I personally wouldn't want another game teesh, I have a ton of them already.

[Shatterhand]

if no one minds that I am a bit too lazy to search through 10 pages of topic..

Has the theme of each weeks already deciced? What will they be?

[P_HAT]

if no one minds that I am a bit too lazy to search through 10 pages of topic..

and my English too crap )

Methods to keep the lower-placed people playing (Remixing the Red Lantern Prize) - t-shirts with "I SUCK IN SHMUPS" to 5 last score )))

[DJ Incompetent]

if no one minds that I am a bit too lazy to search through 10 pages of topic..

Has the theme of each weeks already deciced? What will they be?

No themes have been decided. This is only targeting rules that forum members claimed needed disputing at the time. After this is finished, the twin threads of STGT '08 will be opened...one for themes, one for registration.

Everything this thread has ever talked about is summarized on the first post on the first page

[Shatterhand]

oh
great work DJ!

[ayuh]

Being entirely honest here, as a very low-tier shmupper, I might feel enticed to submit crappy scores towards the end to ensure a Red Lantern prize, etc etc etc

Won't this encourage people to submit poor scores? Or is that not even a problem, since it doesn't affect their team (or does it?)

I would say, "Most improved" or "Largest Rank Jump for Week X" or prizes for the 'lower tier' as it was discussed previously might work.

I suppose one boobie prize is okay, but don't make it public for the above mentioned reasons, although that would eliminate the initial idea, i.e. incentive for low tier shmuppers to submit scores every week.