32GS95UE 1080p/480hz OLED - A compelling option for retrogaming?

[tongshadow]

This monitor has been the talk of the town among PC gamers due to its Dual mode that allows it to run at either 4k/240hz or 1080p/480hz. While this benefits mostly PC gamers, it could also be a very interesting option for using a modern retroscaler such as the Tink4 or Morph.
The 4k/240hz mode is amazing, but in 1080p/480hz it actually scales the signal using interger scaling, effectively making it become a 32" 1080p Monitor. This is great for retrocontent because it doesnt need the extra scaling to 4k, as the monitor itself performs this task. Another benefit is that it allows the use of 240hz BFI (only available in the RetroTink 4k), giving 60hz retro content the same effective pixel blur persistence as 240hz.
Another bonus is that it has decent speakers, LG calls it pixel sound and many reviews state that it's better than your typical gaming monitor.

[Josh128]

Yeah the 4K 120mode would be perfect for Tink 4K use.

[SGGG2]

It looks awesome. Too bad OLED gives me insane migranes

[ZellSF]

The 4k/240hz mode is amazing, but in 1080p/480hz it actually scales the signal using interger scaling, effectively making it become a 32" 1080p Monitor. This is great for retrocontent because it doesnt need the extra scaling to 4k, as the monitor itself performs this task.

Integer scaling isn't for everyone and it certainly does not look like a native 1080p display.

[tongshadow]

The 4k/240hz mode is amazing, but in 1080p/480hz it actually scales the signal using interger scaling, effectively making it become a 32" 1080p Monitor. This is great for retrocontent because it doesnt need the extra scaling to 4k, as the monitor itself performs this task.

Integer scaling isn't for everyone and it certainly does not look like a native 1080p display.

Should look identical for retro/lowres content. Even with interpolation/non-sharp scale 1080p looks really good on my C2, so on this monitor we'll get razor sharp edges comparable to 4k scaling.

[ZellSF]

The 4k/240hz mode is amazing, but in 1080p/480hz it actually scales the signal using interger scaling, effectively making it become a 32" 1080p Monitor. This is great for retrocontent because it doesnt need the extra scaling to 4k, as the monitor itself performs this task.

Integer scaling isn't for everyone and it certainly does not look like a native 1080p display.

Should look identical for retro/lowres content. Even with interpolation/non-sharp scale 1080p looks really good on my C2, so on this monitor we'll get razor sharp edges comparable to 4k scaling.

You won't for 240p/480p/720p.

Think about it. You have a source that's 2 pixels wide. You want to integer scale that to a 3 pixel wide display. Now it's 2/3. You want to integer scale that to a 6 pixel wide display again, now it's 4/6. While if you directly integer scaled the 2 pixel source to a 6 pixel wide display it would be 6/6.

You'll either compromise on aspect ratio or interpolation quality, compared to any 4K scaler.

If you think 1080p native resolution content will look identical on a 1080p screen compared to a 4K screen with integer scaling? Yeah that's just incorrect.

So this 1080p feature only makes sense for people who want really good BFI (with the mentioned trade-off). And I would wait for reviews on that.

[Guspaz]

There aren't any scalers that can do 480 Hz anyway, the 1080p480 mode is not relevant for retro scaling. It's a 4K OLED monitor, which will be great for 4K retro scalers. If you want to do BFI, the monitors typically won't do that, so you can use a 4K retro scaler to send 1440p120.

[fernan1234]

I'd keep an eye on this monitor if only it were not a WOLED.

[Guspaz]

It's a neat trick, and for some people who are into competitive gaming, the higher refresh rate mode may be useful, but 1080p on a 32" monitor that you're sitting a foot away from is quite low resolution and won't be worth the tradeoff for the vast majority of use cases.

There are 32" 4K 240 Hz QD-OLED monitors on the market. The LG will probably have slightly better text clarity (they changed the subpixel order on their WOLED panels to improve text clarity), but from reviewers, these displays have a high enough pixel density that text clarity is fine regardless.

[tongshadow]

There aren't any scalers that can do 480 Hz anyway, the 1080p480 mode is not relevant for retro scaling.

The point is 1080p240hz. Can the Retrotink 4K do 4k@240hz BFI?

If you think 1080p native resolution content will look identical on a 1080p screen compared to a 4K screen with integer scaling? Yeah that's just incorrect.

At the same size, there's a difference due to a native display having larger physical subpixels. But with retro content this difference is negligible, it doesnt need to be identical.
Again, the idea is to send a 1080p240hz signal to the display, so it sharp upscales that to the panel's 2160p resolution.
And because I know that even soft upscaling makes retro content 1080p look good, then with this monitor's sharp/integer it should look even better and comparable to real 4k scaling.

[tacoguy64]

I was originally hyped when i first heard of these monitors, but now i think I might wait and see. The 1080p/480hz is still compelling, and so is 240hz for the QD OLEDs, but I been kinda underwhelmed by their HDR performance or brightness in comparison to OLED TVs. Not sure if the ABL just taking these down a lot but was hoping for a brighter picture. Even though OLED is not known for brightness, these were being hyped as being brighter.

[ZellSF]

At the same size, there's a difference due to a native display having larger physical subpixels. But with retro content this difference is negligible, it doesnt need to be identical.

You replied to my 1080p quote with this? I'm confused. That was talking about 1080p native content, not upscaled 240p content. 1080p native content will look very different.

And because I know that even soft upscaling makes retro content 1080p look good, then with this monitor's sharp/integer it should look even better and comparable to real 4k scaling.

As mentioned you have less control over aspect ratio, or you have to rely on interpolation.

I don't think discarding that as minor differences that don't matter when you're advocating for a 1400$ computer monitor to hook up to a 750$ scaler is valid.

It might not matter to you, but it makes this is less a compelling option for retrogaming and more a niche within a niche within a niche.

[Guspaz]

There aren't any scalers that can do 480 Hz anyway, the 1080p480 mode is not relevant for retro scaling.

The point is 1080p240hz. Can the Retrotink 4K do 4k@240hz BFI?

If you think 1080p native resolution content will look identical on a 1080p screen compared to a 4K screen with integer scaling? Yeah that's just incorrect.

At the same size, there's a difference due to a native display having larger physical subpixels. But with retro content this difference is negligible, it doesnt need to be identical.
Again, the idea is to send a 1080p240hz signal to the display, so it sharp upscales that to the panel's 2160p resolution.
And because I know that even soft upscaling makes retro content 1080p look good, then with this monitor's sharp/integer it should look even better and comparable to real 4k scaling.

Any 4K240 monitor can do 1080p240. Some of them can even do integer scaling. The RT4K can output 1440p120, which the monitor can scale to 240 Hz. No matter what you do with retro content, if you're breaking it up into two scaling steps, you must use a non-integer step. 1080 / 240 = 4.5, 1080 / 480 = 2.25. So yes, you can then do an integer nearest-neighbour scale from 1080p to 2160p, but you've already compromised the image.

At the same time, 1440 / 240 = 6, 1440 / 480 = 3, so you can do a perfect integer nearest-neighbour scale. Then, yes, you must do a non-integer scale from 1440p to 2160p. But that's no different than 1080p, and this is something you can do with an RT4K on any 4K240 monitor.

You will actually get *much* sharper results doing 240 -> 1440 -> 2160 than you will doing 240 -> 1080 -> 2160. So the fact that your monitor can do 1080p240 to 2160p240 with an integer scale is not helpful.

[orange808]

It depends what you want. There's always a trade off.

Particularly with tiled backgrounds on 8 bit systems, the motion clarity of 240Hz BFI is significantly more clear than 120Hz in my setup, but YMMV. The Tink4k at 240Hz is the first time Blazing Lasers and Zanac have ever looked correct away from CRT. I care more about motion clarity than fake scanline filters, but YMMV. When I look at the background scrolling by, I should see the details.

It's so clear, I switched back to my original Burnout 3 disk to restore the software motion blur. I've had to use a hacked version for years because I got the motion blur for free from my display. Now, the unblurred version feels like cheating.

[Guspaz]

Right, but I'm not arguing against 240 Hz, I'm saying that for 240p content (and probably 480p too), you will get better results doing a bilinear upscale (or whatever the monitor does) from 1440p to 2160p than an integer nearest upscale from 1080p to 2160p, and therefore (assuming you're using something like an RT4K) the 1080p -> 2160p integer upscale that this LG monitor can do is not useful for retro gaming. It will produce worse results.

EDIT: Here, I simulated it.

Here is a 240p -> 1080p bilinear sharp upscale followed by a 1080p -> 2160p integer nearest-neighbour upscale (what tongshadow is proposing):


Here is a 240p -> 1440p bilinear sharp upscale followed by a 1440p -> 2160p bilinear upscale (what I am proposing):

[orange808]

It depends. I intentionally didn't use line5x on the OSSC, because it made my games look like an emulator. I preferred line triple.

[tongshadow]

As mentioned you have less control over aspect ratio, or you have to rely on interpolation.

I dont believe we're on the same page here. I'm talking about older consoles running into a scaler being upscaled to 1080p, and not native 1080p like modern consoles.
The scaler should have no problem controlling the aspect ratio for perfect 1:1 mapping, like the SNES into the OSSC with optimized timings at 1080p. This monitor would then integer scale 1080p into 4k, producing similar results to a more powerful scaler doing 240p to 4k.

At the same time, 1440 / 240 = 6, 1440 / 480 = 3, so you can do a perfect integer nearest-neighbour scale. Then, yes, you must do a non-integer scale from 1440p to 2160p. But that's no different than 1080p, and this is something you can do with an RT4K on any 4K240 monitor.

You will actually get *much* sharper results doing 240 -> 1440 -> 2160 than you will doing 240 -> 1080 -> 2160. So the fact that your monitor can do 1080p240 to 2160p240 with an integer scale is not helpful.

Everything you said is true, all common low resolution sources dont scale perfectly into 1080p. However, that's only if we use the full extent of 1080p, but what if we underscan 960p inside a 1080p canvas? This would make integer possible all the way to 4k. I dont have the Retrotink 4K, but I'm sure it's more than capable of doing that.

[ZellSF]

As mentioned you have less control over aspect ratio, or you have to rely on interpolation.

I dont believe we're on the same page here. I'm talking about older consoles running into a scaler being upscaled to 1080p, and not native 1080p like modern consoles.
The scaler should have no problem controlling the aspect ratio for perfect 1:1 mapping, like the SNES into the OSSC with optimized timings at 1080p.

It will have. Games use varying pixel aspect ratios and resolutions, and integer scaling options is limited in 1080p compared to 2160p. Take for example you want to run a 4:3 game that runs at 512x240 and want to display the entire image.

For 1080p your options are:

1024 / 960 = 1.066
1536 / 960 = 1.6

That's all you have to work with, the monitor just integer scales that to 4K again, but it can't correct the aspect ratio any more. While a direct 4K scaler offers these options:

2560 / 2160 = 1.16
3072 / 2160 = 1.42

Both the thinner and thicker aspect ratio are significantly closer to the target (1.33) and you get less black bars.

So again, you either compromise on aspect ratio, or interpolation (and Guspaz has explained why this compromise isn't a good idea either). I wouldn't call these similar results at all, especially if I'm paying 2150$ for it.

[Josh128]

Guys, at the end of the day this is a high end 4K screen, and when paired with a 4K scaler is every bit as good as any other high end 4K screen. The 240Hz and OLED is just icing on the cake.

[BONKERS]

Maybe this is the closest I will get to my 1080p OLED pipe dream after my PVM-2551 dies.

[ZellSF]

This will look nothing like any native resolution 1080p display, it's just as inaccurate as any 4K OLED set to 1080p, just in a different way.

Which is fine if that's the look you're going for, of course.

Edit: if you're looking for replicating a 1080p look on a 4K panel, RetroTink4K with LCD filters is probably your best bet.

[strayan]

All they need to do is build 480Hz BFI settings into their firmware when the panels get bright enough.

[Rastan78]

Should look identical for retro/lowres content. Even with interpolation/non-sharp scale 1080p looks really good on my C2, so on this monitor we'll get razor sharp edges comparable to 4k scaling.

Just use PC mode by changing the name of the input. You get razor sharp scaling of 1080p and 720p and no compression artifacts bc PC mode uses 4:4:4 chroma.

[tongshadow]

Not integer scaling.

Take for example you want to run a 4:3 game that runs at 512x240 and want to display the entire image.

For 1080p your options are:

1024 / 960 = 1.066
1536 / 960 = 1.6

That's all you have to work with, the monitor just integer scales that to 4K again, but it can't correct the aspect ratio any more. While a direct 4K scaler offers these options:

2560 / 2160 = 1.16
3072 / 2160 = 1.42

Both the thinner and thicker aspect ratio are significantly closer to the target (1.33) and you get less black bars.

512x240 is an edge case, and you can display the correct AR in 1080p by using horizontal interpolation, I can do that on my RetroGEM. And even if you claim that it would be less ideal due to uneven pixel scaling (even though interporlation does a good job at eliminating shimmering), the fact is that there's no way to reach the correct AR on that resolution using 2160p. Your own post states that it's "closer" but not "perfect".

[Konsolkongen]

Should look identical for retro/lowres content. Even with interpolation/non-sharp scale 1080p looks really good on my C2, so on this monitor we'll get razor sharp edges comparable to 4k scaling.

Just use PC mode by changing the name of the input. You get razor sharp scaling of 1080p and 720p and no compression artifacts bc PC mode uses 4:4:4 chroma.

PC mode doesn’t change the scaling. But I agree nontheless. RGB444 looks noticeably better.

[Rastan78]

It did for me on both LG C1 and C2. There seems to be some sort of smoothing algorithm in place that only goes away in PC mode.

A good game to verify this is virtua racing on Switch. All kinds of colorful 1080p edges with no antialiasing. The stair steps are pin sharp on LG oled in PC mode. Outside of PC mode it looks like ass relativley speaking even with everything turned off.

[ZellSF]

512x240 is an edge case, and you can display the correct AR in 1080p by using horizontal interpolation, I can do that on my RetroGEM.

Retro gaming is full of various weird resolutions, some standard ones that also gives similar problems and even with other standard resolutions you have the 240p vertical problem.

Yeah you can solve it with interpolation, which is why I said almost in my first reply that you're making a bad trade-off either way. You compromise on aspect ratio or interpolation quality.

I'm not saying it's a bad trade-off if it gives better BFI, people should just be aware that it's a trade-off, and one that prospective buyers in this price class are likely to notice.

the fact is that there's no way to reach the correct AR on that resolution using 2160p. Your own post states that it's "closer" but not "perfect".

Significantly closer. Without black bars.

[Konsolkongen]

It did for me on both LG C1 and C2. There seems to be some sort of smoothing algorithm in place that only goes away in PC mode.

A good game to verify this is virtua racing on Switch. All kinds of colorful 1080p edges with no antialiasing. The stair steps are pin sharp on LG oled in PC mode. Outside of PC mode it looks like ass relativley speaking even with everything turned off.

That sound like the chroma subsampling issues when you don't run in PC mode

[Rastan78]

Could be although the entire image looks blurred over consistent with non integer scaling.

One interesting case running outside of PC mode was Kyuukyoku Tiger title screen. It has a solid dark blue background with a large red Taito logo. Aside from pronounced compression artifacts throughout the solid blue color the logo is heavily smeared around the edges to a degree not seen anywhere else on the screen. To me that implies the scaling algorithm interpreted the large blocky logo as macroblocking in a video source and targeted that area with heavy smoothing. And that is with "AI upscaling" or whatever they call it turned off.

Granted they change firmware on these things all the time, but it seems like there is some notable difference in upscaling method with PC mode.

[tongshadow]

It's not integer, maybe it looks that way because it does a better job compared to most TVs. But it's still soft.



https://youtu.be/SMkimgEwWXs?t=811

Retro gaming is full of various weird resolutions, some standard ones that also gives similar problems and even with other standard resolutions you have the 240p vertical problem.

Yeah you can solve it with interpolation, which is why I said almost in my first reply that you're making a bad trade-off either way. You compromise on aspect ratio or interpolation quality.

I'm not saying it's a bad trade-off if it gives better BFI, people should just be aware that it's a trade-off, and one that prospective buyers in this price class are likely to notice.

Sadly, playing retro consoles on flat panels has always been about compromises, but I feel this new monitor offers many more options than your typical display.