No interest / demand for a PS2 ODE?

[azmun]

It's a curious case that an ODE for the PCE, SS, PS, DC and GCN have at least one if not two ODE's in existence or currently in development (i.e. FlippyDrive, MODE, etc.). Yet none have developed one for the PS2? Is this a hardware constraint or market driven?

I understand an alternative exists--FreeMCBoot loads ISO's via usb, hdd or memory cards. But the results leave a lot to be desired as compatibility list is a major drawback.

[Taiyaki]

Good question. Also would be interesting to see an Xbox solution too.

[fernan1234]

OPL (which you load through FreeMCBoot) has a less than stellar rep in compatibility because too many people insist on using USB and network loading instead of HDD, since they are more convenient, but also cause more incompatibilities and issues than when loading via HDD. Loading through HDD has gotten significantly easier through the OPL fork that added large disk and drag-and-drop file support, though the fork seems to be abandoned for now.

That all said, an ODE for the PS2 is highly desirable (it would also act as a PS1 ODE, and I guess also a DVD player for disc images). It would be a more authentic and reliable experience (though we have also seen how ODEs can be plagued with bugs and inaccuracies).

[ZellSF]

OPL compatibility with a HDD seems to be at 98+%. And HDD compatible PS2s are cheap.

I'm sure there's a market for a PS2 ODE, but it's not as necessary as for other consoles.

[kamiboy]

The only thing in favour of a potential PS2 ODE at this time would be to increase ease of use, because currently going the HDL route is a giant confusing maze that takes quite the mental work to untangle.

However, that is largely just a software issue which could, in theory, be solved by way of a concerted effort. This effort, however, seems not to be forthcoming. As such the only thing that method would have going for it in face of a potential ODE solution would be lower cost. Other than time, all you need to make OPL setup work is a cheap SATA HDD adapter and a memory card with FreeMacboot installed on it. The HDD adapter can be had for less than 20 Euros, FreeMacboot installation is potentially free. But judging from the average cost of ODE solutions you would most likely be out at least 150-200 Euros for an ODE. Then you would have to content with the fact that the ODE will be on an immature firmware for some period after launch until the bugs are ironed out.

Of course the OPL route has the additional bonus of maintaining the ability to boot off of the DVD drive, if one should desire. One of my pet peeves with most ODE solutions is that they aim to completely supplant the optical drive, even a perfectly functioning one.

[Gunstar]

It was hinted on twitter that one would be coming this year, not sure by who but I think Cybdyn said they might be doing one?


Fixel's Phode webstore page teased something that some speculated to be PS2 support 'mechanism = MechaCon'

[ZellSF]

all you need to make OPL setup work is a cheap SATA HDD adapter and a memory card with FreeMacboot installed on it.

You don't need to buy a memory card with FreeMCBoot installed, FreeDVDBoot and FreeHDBoot are alternatives.

You obviously do need a memory card to save some games though (OPL has memory card emulation, but it doesn't work with all games).

[ASDR]

Always had good luck with OPL + SMB. Some games need an option tweak for video playback etc., but I've been playing all my PS2 games like this including 100h JRPGs and I didn't really have much issues. An ODE would have to be extremely good to compete with the 0-price of FreeMcBoot + OPL.

[tongshadow]

Pointless endeavor, HDDs/SDDs are faster and have more storage potential.
Replacing the PS2's laser is also easy and it's still widely available. With the ODE you would lose the ability to run DVDs and rip games from discs into the HD.
ODEs only make sense for systems that lack internal storage or means to run games from them, like the Dreamcast and Gamecube.

[Lord of Pirates]

The only thing in favour of a potential PS2 ODE at this time would be to increase ease of use, because currently going the HDL route is a giant confusing maze that takes quite the mental work to untangle.

However, that is largely just a software issue which could, in theory, be solved by way of a concerted effort. This effort, however, seems not to be forthcoming. As such the only thing that method would have going for it in face of a potential ODE solution would be lower cost. Other than time, all you need to make OPL setup work is a cheap SATA HDD adapter and a memory card with FreeMacboot installed on it. The HDD adapter can be had for less than 20 Euros, FreeMacboot installation is potentially free. But judging from the average cost of ODE solutions you would most likely be out at least 150-200 Euros for an ODE. Then you would have to content with the fact that the ODE will be on an immature firmware for some period after launch until the bugs are ironed out.

Of course the OPL route has the additional bonus of maintaining the ability to boot off of the DVD drive, if one should desire. One of my pet peeves with most ODE solutions is that they aim to completely supplant the optical drive, even a perfectly functioning one.

What confusion? A fat, network adapter, and HDD and you're done for the most part.

[ASDR]

How much better is the HDD solution these days over SMB? I only have 7000-series slims and really like putting a new game on both with a single network copy. 100Mbit networking should be faster than the DVD drive, so it should in theory work fine?

[Taiyaki]

Who'd be the best people to make an ODE for the system? I'm guessing Terraonion? I have their DC ODE and it's just stellar. Haven't had a single compatibility issue with it. It has to be the most reliable of all the ODE's I've seen. Only downside is the price.

[Lord of Pirates]

How much better is the HDD solution these days over SMB? I only have 7000-series slims and really like putting a new game on both with a single network copy. 100Mbit networking should be faster than the DVD drive, so it should in theory work fine?

I've never played games via SMB but, I get faster speeds transferring games to HDD via ethernet compared to disc reads, it ought to be. I wouldn't worry about it until or unless you encounter problem games.

[ASDR]

How much better is the HDD solution these days over SMB? I only have 7000-series slims and really like putting a new game on both with a single network copy. 100Mbit networking should be faster than the DVD drive, so it should in theory work fine?

I've never played games via SMB but, I get faster speeds transferring games to HDD via ethernet compared to disc reads, it ought to be. I wouldn't worry about it until or unless you encounter problem games.

It's been pretty good so far. I played through Persona 3 FES ~100h and had a single hang during a load, no idea if that was related to OPL. Also triple digit hours with GT4, never crashed or any issues. There are sometimes config options you need to set, I forgot the details, but FMV would stutter otherwise in some games. Loading games from a network share is so convenient, especially if you got multiple PS2s.

[VEGETA]

OPL compatibility is fantastic even fro USB, and now there is the memory card thing too.

however, the only big point for PS2 ODE is running PS1 games natively.

[kamiboy]

The only thing in favour of a potential PS2 ODE at this time would be to increase ease of use, because currently going the HDL route is a giant confusing maze that takes quite the mental work to untangle.

However, that is largely just a software issue which could, in theory, be solved by way of a concerted effort. This effort, however, seems not to be forthcoming. As such the only thing that method would have going for it in face of a potential ODE solution would be lower cost. Other than time, all you need to make OPL setup work is a cheap SATA HDD adapter and a memory card with FreeMacboot installed on it. The HDD adapter can be had for less than 20 Euros, FreeMacboot installation is potentially free. But judging from the average cost of ODE solutions you would most likely be out at least 150-200 Euros for an ODE. Then you would have to content with the fact that the ODE will be on an immature firmware for some period after launch until the bugs are ironed out.

Of course the OPL route has the additional bonus of maintaining the ability to boot off of the DVD drive, if one should desire. One of my pet peeves with most ODE solutions is that they aim to completely supplant the optical drive, even a perfectly functioning one.

What confusion? A fat, network adapter, and HDD and you're done for the most part.

The confusion is on the software setup part. I have been knee deep in forums and videos for over two weeks and still cannot figure out some key things. It really is a mess. Why is it that my old 1.8 FMC memory card works perfectly but for the life of me I cannot get 1.966 to work?

Why does 1.966 require you to find essential tools like uLaunch and FHDB on your own and add them to the install folder?

Why doesn’t any of the guides say what they expect those files to names to be and where they should be put?

Why is the noob package that is supposed to come with everything out of the box so old? Why are so resources explaining the things so out of date and horrendously badly written?

Why can’t I get the newest version of FMC to work, seriously, why? Why do I have to edit configuration files? Why does the latest FHDB with zso file support not work with the lastest FMCB?

Can I somehow install the latest FHDB beta onto the HDD? Doesn’t seem I can.

Not to mention how difficult it is to transfer ISOs to the HDD, especially if you are not a windows user.

It is all a twisted confusing mess compared to an ODE where you just copy your ISOs to an SD card, insert and go. Maybe it is my mistake for trying to roll with the latest version of FMCB and FHDB, as it seems some out of date stuff seem to work, but then, they are out of date and prolly have issues that have since been solved.

If I don’t make any headway in getting this mess to work this week I am inclined to just go for the ODE and be done with it.

[Syntax]

New FMCB is not working for you probably because you have a chipped PS2.
IMO the best method for FatPS2 internal HDD games right now is formatting the drive as eXfat, setting it up just like you would an OPL USB stick and running Grimdoomers eXfat patched OPL. Pretty sure it ups the HDD limit to 16tb so you don't really need to run ZSO.
https://github.com/grimdoomer/Open-PS2-Loader/releases
CSO/ZSO should work fine if you run mode1. Make sure OPL is auto loading BDM, as your internal HDD is now seen as USB.
Downside is you cannot install FHDB to the internal HDD if it is eXfat, or access/edit the HDD in uLaunch until they update. Only PC.
Drop and drag instead of making partitions in APA jail is a blessing tho.

Do not confuse this with the new OPL/FMCB eXfat versions, those are for installing FMCB and other stuff from an eXfat usb device, not playing games.

Here is a little pack I made last year.

Code: Select all

FMCB for all fat PS2/Modchipped or not - Internal/External eXfat HDD 16tb/ZSO support.
APPS Cheat Device[PAL/NTSC], PS1 VideoMode Negator and MemCard Annihilator included
plus more APPS for HDD.

Copy to USB and run from OPL or uLaunch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LimuTp ... sp=sharing

[Lamprey]

For the PS2 slim I think an ODE would/could be pretty sweet.

For the PS2 Pat is there a speed difference between the Optical Drive interface vs the HD interface? I can't remember if they are the same on the PS2.

I tend to agree that getting FreeMc Boot / OPL setup isn't entirely straigh forward. I did it and now that it's setup I don't see a need to change. But, a more simplifed ODE solution might make sense for some people.

[VEGETA]

Not to mention how difficult it is to transfer ISOs to the HDD, especially if you are not a windows user.

what?

it is very easy for me in windows to do it. i even made the hdl server thing which uses ethernet cable to transfer from pc without even taking hdd out.

very easy

[Konsolkongen]

Not to mention how difficult it is to transfer ISOs to the HDD, especially if you are not a windows user.

what?

it is very easy for me in windows to do it. i even made the hdl server thing which uses ethernet cable to transfer from pc without even taking hdd out.

very easy

He said he wasn’t using Windows.

I understand Kamiboy, it can be a hassle to get working. Even with Windows there are iso transfer applications that just doesn’t work correctly for some reason. Had to try a handful before I found one that worked reliably.

Network transfer may work fine, but it’s very slow.

[bobrocks95]

The ethernet cable transfer I'd have to set up a laptop and let it run for hours just to transfer a couple games over. Slow as hell.

Now I personally use a mini router plugged in with SMB and a USB drive plugged into it. Just plug the USB drive into my computer and move files. I don't play a lot of PS2 to really know how compatibility is though.

[ASDR]

however, the only big point for PS2 ODE is running PS1 games natively.

Didn't even think about this. I suppose we can give up on them ever finding some magic trick to make this work with OPL?

[ZellSF]

For the PS2 Pat is there a speed difference between the Optical Drive interface vs the HD interface? I can't remember if they are the same on the PS2.

Not sure what you're talking about here. HDD vs Optical drive, HDD is much faster. Much faster loading times, assuming the game accepts it and doesn't need a compatibility mode.

Theoretical comparison between the HDD and optical drive interface if a ODE was made that could read faster than the stock drive? Not sure if that information is available anywhere.

[kamiboy]

New FMCB is not working for you probably because you have a chipped PS2.
IMO the best method for FatPS2 internal HDD games right now is formatting the drive as eXfat, setting it up just like you would an OPL USB stick and running Grimdoomers eXfat patched OPL. Pretty sure it ups the HDD limit to 16tb so you don't really need to run ZSO.
https://github.com/grimdoomer/Open-PS2-Loader/releases
CSO/ZSO should work fine if you run mode1. Make sure OPL is auto loading BDM, as your internal HDD is now seen as USB.
Downside is you cannot install FHDB to the internal HDD if it is eXfat, or access/edit the HDD in uLaunch until they update. Only PC.
Drop and drag instead of making partitions in APA jail is a blessing tho.

Do not confuse this with the new OPL/FMCB eXfat versions, those are for installing FMCB and other stuff from an eXfat usb device, not playing games.

Here is a little pack I made last year.

Code: Select all

FMCB for all fat PS2/Modchipped or not - Internal/External eXfat HDD 16tb/ZSO support.
APPS Cheat Device[PAL/NTSC], PS1 VideoMode Negator and MemCard Annihilator included
plus more APPS for HDD.

Copy to USB and run from OPL or uLaunch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LimuTp ... sp=sharing

Thanks for the summary, however after writing my rant, and before checking back to see this, I sacrificed a few more hours scouring obscure forum threads until I finally saw the modchip thing mentioned in relation to newer FMCB version.

I wasn’t even aware my PS2 had a modchip, as I have no less than 4 Phat models, in addition to two slims, of which I believe only one is modded.

Now I know that one is the unit I at random had grabbed for this project.

For the record I discovered there is a lightweight FMCB alternative that has better compatibility with modchips which after contending with more bad documentation, finally managed to install to the HDD, along with the latest version of OPL with zso support.

Now I just need to transfer some ISOs and I should be set. Though, I am pretty sure in a few weeks I will forget all the details and woe is me if I should ever need to make any changes.

[tongshadow]

For the PS2 Pat is there a speed difference between the Optical Drive interface vs the HD interface? I can't remember if they are the same on the PS2.

Not sure what you're talking about here. HDD vs Optical drive, HDD is much faster. Much faster loading times, assuming the game accepts it and doesn't need a compatibility mode.

Theoretical comparison between the HDD and optical drive interface if a ODE was made that could read faster than the stock drive? Not sure if that information is available anywhere.

This is pretty easy to verify if you have an Xstation and the PS2 with a HDD. Run Megaman X4 on the PS1, and the collection version on the PS2 from the HDD.
You'll see the Loading times on the PS2 are non existant, while on the PS1 it's roughly equivalent to a laser and disc in good shape. Fast, but not faster than an HDD.

I dont understand the need of wanting every mod for every console. First we had the silly PicoPSUs that are nowhere as good as a properly engineered OEM PSU, and now we want ODEs that take away features from the console and perform worse than solutions that have existed for decades...

[azmun]

I dont understand the need of wanting every mod for every console. First we had the silly PicoPSUs that are nowhere as good as a properly engineered OEM PSU, and now we want ODEs that take away features from the console and perform worse than solutions that have existed for decades...

I agree. Sometimes we get preoccupied or distracted over trivial matters. An extension of the law of diminishing returns is negative utility.

However, a PS2 ODE is not one such undertaking. For some of us (me included) the current options are not acceptable. While having a laser repaired/replaced is a very viable option, they have a shorter lifespan and you still need to find someone with experience to troubleshoot / install. The ease of use and convenience of ODEs (like flash carts) are not to be taken for granted.

I have few pet peeves among your current "solutions." First, I must have been living in a cave if they've been around for "decades." I'm not a huge fan of external devices (looking at slim and not phat variants). The HDD/SDD you mention apply only to specific models of the PS2. The rest will require advanced modifications. I also don't like tinkering with menus, settings, etc. As much as possible, I like my setup to be plug and play. Yes, we will most likely (but not necessarily) lose optical drive functionality (e.g. Satiator, upcoming Flippy Drive, SSDS3, among others) but that is a fair trade-off. While I occasionally watch DVDs using my PS2, it's not the most optimal thing to do.

While I respect your opinion regarding a PS2 ODE and why it doesn't appeal to you, I believe it's something that would serve the community well and that is long overdue.

[kamiboy]

The ease of use and option of having ones PS2 model, whether slim or phat, replace two systems in ones setup (PS1 and PS2), makes the prospect attractive.

PS2 backwards compatibility, though falling short of perfect, is adequate enough to make a standalone PS1 obsolete via an ODE capable of booting ISOs from both platforms. As much as I absolutely adore that PS1 boot sound, if a PS2 ODE came out I would be tempted to switch my phat PS2 and OG PS1 out with a ODE equipped PS2, thereby save lots of space in my cramped setup, and free up a SCART input in the older auto switcher. That in addition to (presumed) ease of use, would make it well worth the price of admission.

[ZellSF]

OPL is dead simple to use. Copy games to storage device. Start OPL. Start game. Maybe switch to a compatibility mode if speed is too fast for the game. An ODE can't really improve much on that.

The installation is a different matter, and that seems to be a gripe a few people have with OPL, and saying an ODE will be so much better at. I sort of doubt that, I'm thinking an ODE will at minimum require disassembly of the PS2, maybe some soldering.

Sure for some people (either good at hardware modding, or bad at using software) it might be easier, but definitely not for everyone.

[ASDR]

OPL is dead simple to use. Copy games to storage device. Start OPL. Start game. Maybe switch to a compatibility mode if speed is too fast for the game. An ODE can't really improve much on that.

That has been my experience for the past 5 years or so.

The installation is a different matter, and that seems to be a gripe a few people have with OPL, and saying an ODE will be so much better at. I sort of doubt that, I'm thinking an ODE will at minimum require disassembly of the PS2, maybe some soldering.

If you have any way of running homebrew on your PS2 (Action Replay SwapMagic etc.) then making your own FMCB memory card is absolutely trivial. After that all I needed to do was setup a SMB share on my Pi and point the PS2 at it. It's pretty straightforward.

[Syntax]

Thanks for the summary, however after writing my rant, and before checking back to see this, I sacrificed a few more hours scouring obscure forum threads until I finally saw the modchip thing mentioned in relation to newer FMCB version.

I wasn’t even aware my PS2 had a modchip, as I have no less than 4 Phat models, in addition to two slims, of which I believe only one is modded.

Now I know that one is the unit I at random had grabbed for this project.

For the record I discovered there is a lightweight FMCB alternative that has better compatibility with modchips which after contending with more bad documentation, finally managed to install to the HDD, along with the latest version of OPL with zso support.

Now I just need to transfer some ISOs and I should be set. Though, I am pretty sure in a few weeks I will forget all the details and woe is me if I should ever need to make any changes.

ZSO support does not exist for internal drives unless you run Grimdoomers OPL.
When you install a ZSO the old APA way it decompress it to ISO full size anyway.
That's why the programs need the original ISO and the ZSO to install.
ZSO can only live on a non playstation formatted drive.

https://github.com/GDX-X/PFS-BatchKit-Manager/issues/36