PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

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Boxy
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PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Hello,

The brightness on my TV is low in RGB mode. It's hard to see things in many games to the point it's just better to play with composite cable.
The TV does not allow me to change brightness in RGB mode.

Is something wrong with my cable? I purchased some no-name cable, the only I could find in my country.
Initially I was not getting RGB signal because the cable had no 180ohm resistor. After I soldered the resistor, I'm now getting beautiful picture quality, but the low brightness makes it unusable in most games.

The cable came with three 220µF caps, I removed them, as PS2 already includes them.
No change to the picture.

I also severed the red wire that goes to pin 18 from 5 (three pins 17,13,9 are connected to pin 5, and 5 is connected to 18). From 18 goes purple wire, i imagine all this is grounding.
Again no change to picture quality.
I'm out of ideas.

I'm starting to think that this is poorly calibrated TV in RGB mode and that it has nothing to do with the cable.

I know there are two websites that sell high-quality cables, but they are not an option for me.

(Excuse my poor soldering skills).
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kitty666cats
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by kitty666cats »

I wonder if there would be a difference between trying a sync on composite cable versus a sync on luma cable…? That’s the only guess I can think of aside from adjusting the TV itself, hopefully someone else has a concrete answer of what the issue could be!
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Is it possible to easily modify the cable to make it use a sync on luma? I don't really understand these things well, so I wouldn't even know how.

Unfortunately LG locks all picture settings once RGB signal is used.

It's disappointing because the picture quality is really good compared to composite, even games in NTSC look good now.

I'm from PAL region by the way, if it matters.
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Kez
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Kez »

That is certainly a low quality cable. I don't think disconnecting the ground pins is a great idea.. but I also don't think it's causing your problem. It does seem like it could be some weirdness with your TV.

Generally when you have brightness issues it can be one of the following:

- Uniformly weak R/G/B signals (unlikely)
- Some issue with the sync (possible)
- TV configuration problem (most likely)

Personally I would spend the most time investigating the TV angle to start out. Does the TV have a Limited/Full range option? This may also look like "black level" or something along those lines. It's strange if all settings are locked in RGB - perhaps this can be changed by activating the service menu in your TV. Although sometimes you can get a different set of options for RGB vs. Luma/Chroma based signals so make sure you investigate the menu fully.

Another option worth considering is if your TV has component inputs - get a cheap PS2 component cable instead. If your TV has component inputs this will look just as good as RGB and may sidestep whatever issues you are having in the RGB pipeline. Also if your TV supports 480p and above it will work via component whereas RGB likely won't.

If you do want to switch to luma sync, this may be possible if the luma pin is hooked up in your wire, you'll need a multimeter though and it will be fiddly. Here is a PS1/2 AV pinout I found (the C-sync stuff is weird but the pins look correct and that's all we care about):
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You can see pin 6 is composite video and 5 is luma. So, first you need to figure out if the luma pin is available at the other end of the cable... look for any wires that have been cut off near the end of the cable, and check for continuity with pin 5 (it may also be that the cable is already sync on luma, though doubtful, so check your scart pin 20 wire also), check all the other wires for continuity with pin 5 also just in case it's wired in a weird way. If you can locate the luma wire, then you simply disconnect the composite video wire from pin 20 and solder the luma wire in its place. You will likely need to use some wire to extend it if it's been cut off. You could also just chop the end off the wire altogether and rewire the entire SCART head - though I wouldn't recommend this option, especially if you're uncomfortable with soldering.
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Thank you. Unfortunately i can't see your photo and I don't have a multi-meter, so I would have to buy one (I know it's cheap), and I tried opening the other side of the cable but it seems to be completely sealed. At that point i think it's just better to invest in new cable.

The problem is that https://retro-access.com/ does not ship to my country, and I was told to avoid the https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk website as retro-access is apparently better.

I've heard about the Limited/Full RGB thing, and that picture can be too dark if it's set to Full RGB, unfortunately I see no such option in settings.
I do have a component cable (purchased it for my flat screen, but the experience on flat screen is terrible so i just sticked to CRT screen), my CRT screen does not support component cable.

How can I activate the service menu? I found nothing in the manual (The manual mentions that picture settings get locked in RGB mode).
https://manualzz.com/doc/49439929/lg-rz ... r-s-manual

By the way, I tried connecting the SCART to AV2 but that one does not support RGB signal, only AV1 does.
And the brightness is normal when the SCART runs through composite signal.
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Kez
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Kez »

A RetroGamingCables one will be fine enough. Sadly Retro-Access is mainly one person and she is going through some stuff right now, not currently selling much so even if they did ship to you it may be many months before you could get it.

Sorry even though the info was right there in the topic I wasn't sure if you were using a CRT - that makes the cable a more likely culprit honestly. Do you have any other RGB SCART devices that look fine? If so then it must be the cable or the PS2 itself. I think it probably is worth investing in an RGC SCART cable honestly - regardless it will be an upgrade over your current cable.
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... z21fb55rx/

I just found this!
This person has same problem as me. Judging by the TV name and its design, it's the same TV as mine, just smaller.

Apparently the person fixed it (sounds more like workaround) by accessing the service menu you mentioned and changing color values! I just have to figure out how to access it. :D

The fact the person had same problem as me sounds like it is TV issue? I will still the consider the better cable though, it might fix the issue altogether.
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Kez
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Kez »

Ah yes, seems pretty clear cut then in that case! It doesn't hurt to have a better quality cable (will reduce image noise, audio buzz, etc) but it definitely seems like your TV is the issue here.

You will need to find a service manual or something similar for your TV to figure out how to access the menu, it's normally a series of remote control commands. If you can find the code from other LG TVs from the era it may be the same. You could also try replying to that reddit post - it's not that old.

Always make sure you document the original settings before messing with stuff in service mode.
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Thank you very much, changing the values indeed increases brightness as well!

I didn't even know that these TVs had something like service menu.
On my TV it's accessed by holding MENU both on the TV and the remote.

I of course took photos of the default service menu values, but there is one problem. While i pressed the arrow to access service menu 1, it was so sensitive that it changed value for CR and now I don't know which value is default for it. It used same button to access the menu and change the value...

CG default is 80
CB is 86

I just know CR was around 80-90 too.

I don't see any option to reset the defaults.
fernan1234
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by fernan1234 »

Boxy wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 2:40 pm I don't see any option to reset the defaults.
And if you find one, don't use it! Many times those global reset toggles will revert back to pre-factory calibration values and potentially really mess up functionality. Some people have basically bricked their CRT TVs that way.

If everything looks normal with CR at that value, just let it be.
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Thanks for the warning!

Yes it looks fine, not much noticeable difference between 80-90.
I imagine it wasn't calibrated for RGB well anyway? Given how dark it was...

Just a bit annoying not knowing the default for it. :P

Thank you everyone for your help! It's time to play some NTSC games with finally good quality. :D
Kez wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:46 am I don't think disconnecting the ground pins is a great idea..
No worries, i re-soldered the red wire.
neorichieb1971
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Don't know about the TV in question, but back in the day me and a friend had 2 different Sony Trinitrons. The PQ was better with SCART but it was dark. In the end we went with Svideo.

If the TV in question uses the Trinitron system of 1 gun 3 colours it might be the reason its dark. In comparison, an older Panasonic gave very vibrant colours with the same cable and console. Obviously Panasonic doesn't use the Trinitron system.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
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Kez
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Kez »

Glad you got it looking good! :)
Boxy
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Re: PS2 | CRT - Low brightness with RGB SCART

Post by Boxy »

Yes, thank you!

In the end I still decided to play most games in PAL. They still look way better than NTSC, at least on my TV. Though I would say they look better now than PAL did with composite cables.

I'm surprised how much the RGB SCART cables increased image even with PAL games, it feels like I increased resolution.
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