Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

RGC wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:44 am
Currently battling with...
Spoiler
Green Monster of the Swamp/Puppet-Devouring Green Monster
What an a-hole! I'm using the...
Spoiler
Trident of the Covenant
...since it allows me to stagger him if I can spam R2 enough. First phase always goes one of two ways: I either stagger/annihilate him before he has time to do very much, OR he takes my Pulse Cells down to 1-2 before phase 2 even begins. Still trying to get the timing down on avoiding a hit when he crawls up from beneath, since doing so provides the perfect opportunity for spammage. That second phase though...good lord!
That fucker took me three hours on both NG and NG+.

On NG+2 it took me three tries. Finally have his number. You'll figure phase two out.

Are you liking it in general?
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by RGC »

Stevens wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:17 pm Are you liking it in general?
Ask me that 15 minutes ago I'd have said it was a royal pos, but now Swampy is dead and it's back to being the greatest game ever. :lol: Nah, I really dig it! If I had to find flaw I'd say the p-organ system is a little over-engineered for my tastes, but that's because I prefer fewer choices and to not feel like maybe I've hamstrung myself by making poor ones. After totally burning out on ER (to the extent I probably won't go near another open world game for a while), it's refreshing to be back in a world with a more linear design and faster pacing. I can see myself diving straight into NG+ when I finish this run. So yeah, it's definitely ticking some boxes. :)

(Edit: I've made no use whatsoever of...
Spoiler
Gold Coin Fruit
...even though the game seems to emphasise its importance. This aspect does feel a bit tacked on, and like an excuse to include great glowing, shiny trees).

On Swampy...
Spoiler
Once I reached the point where I was taking out his first form fairly consistently without using any pulse cells, I could relax a little for phase two and study his moves a bit. With the trident it was a case of pretty much facing him dead on, and getting in a few p-guards. I lopped off a massive cheesy hunk of his life with a 🔼+🔼 fable art, staggered him once, and finished him with a couple of cells in stock. On the penultimate attempt I'd totally nailed p-guarding his rampant stampede attack (evading just didn't work reliably), but in the final showdown he only executed that pattern once and I effed up the timing. Like most of my fights it was messy as fuck, though this one took way fewer attempts than King of Puppets, and I did get some p-guards in I was proud of. Maybe the combat is beginning to click, or perhaps wailing on bosses with the trident is just a cheap but effective strat. Either way, he's dead I'm not and now I'm faced with a dilemma...

Do I trade Swampy's special Ergo for the Two Dragons Sword (the first A->S Tech weapon I'll have acquired, or the Ghost Walk Amulet? Seriously tough decision! Think I'll sleep on it!
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

RGC wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:54 am
Spoiler
Gold Coin Fruit
...even though the game seems to emphasise its importance. This aspect does feel a bit tacked on, and like an excuse to include great glowing, shiny trees).

On Swampy...
Spoiler
Once I reached the point where I was taking out his first form fairly consistently without using any pulse cells, I could relax a little for phase two and study his moves a bit. With the trident it was a case of pretty much facing him dead on, and getting in a few p-guards. I lopped off a massive cheesy hunk of his life with a 🔼+🔼 fable art, staggered him once, and finished him with a couple of cells in stock. On the penultimate attempt I'd totally nailed p-guarding his rampant stampede attack (evading just didn't work reliably), but in the final showdown he only executed that pattern once and I effed up the timing. Like most of my fights it was messy as fuck, though this one took way fewer attempts than King of Puppets, and I did get some p-guards in I was proud of. Maybe the combat is beginning to click, or perhaps wailing on bosses with the trident is just a cheap but effective strat. Either way, he's dead I'm not and now I'm faced with a dilemma...

Do I trade Swampy's special Ergo for the Two Dragons Sword (the first A->S Tech weapon I'll have acquired, or the Ghost Walk Amulet? Seriously tough decision! Think I'll sleep on it!
Yeah. The WS is meh unless your summoning. As for weapons -
Spoiler
Trident will easily see you through to the end. I think every weapon can - it's just that lighter weapons (Winter Rapier, Etiquette, knives) give you a smaller margin for error. I think I said it above - the movement upgrades, with under 30% weight, and the ghost walk turns the game into something else. Do you want the stagger damage from the fury perfect guard? Or you want to step behind and get some hits in. I was underwhelmed by the TDS, but I am in the minority. I haven't taken ghost off since I got it. There are furies I'll guard though.
If you're happy with your weapon take the amulet.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by RGC »

I'm generally using the DCS for everything except the bosses, and switching out for the trident for some of the big fights (not all though - beat KoP with DCS).
Last edited by RGC on Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lies of P

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Resorting to covenant trident again for a re-encounter with...
Spoiler
the black rabbit brotherhood.

Not quite beaten them yet, but I found an approach that works very well: Kill the youngest first, then the next two as close as possible together, leaving just resurrected big bro. I'm dealing massive damage with run up R2 attacks, so should be done and dusted in another try or so (when I get a chance to play again).
The game seemed to bug out the first time this fight started, so that...
Spoiler
the younger brother called out taunts but didn't get involved in the fight at all. Weird.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

RGC wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:50 pm Resorting to covenant trident again for a re-encounter with...
Spoiler
the black rabbit brotherhood.

Not quite beaten them yet, but I found an approach that works very well: Kill the youngest first, then the next two as close as possible together, leaving just resurrected big bro. I'm dealing massive damage with run up R2 attacks, so should be done and dusted in another try or so (when I get a chance to play again).
The game seemed to bug out the first time this fight started, so that...
Spoiler
the younger brother called out taunts but didn't get involved in the fight at all. Weird.
That one isn't too bad. Very reminiscent of
Spoiler
Shadows of Yharnam. They even put stuff in the arena to hide behind.
You have the AI figured out in that
Spoiler
the aggressor should be the one who is vocal and imbuing their weapon. The others will aggro if you get close enough though.
NG+2 was pretty quick. I got stuck on
Spoiler
Scrapped Watchman
of all things. His grab would one shot me.

After PDGM I rolled. I finally summoned for
Spoiler
BRB rounds one and two
, only because I decided I was going to when I started. Summoning for that fight feels good.

The TLB I beat on my first try. Going through it again.

I feel at this point I can do a decent spoiler free write up.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

re: the TDS, it has great (and cool) R2 attacks and Arts, but kinda sucky R1 attacks.

After a bunch of playthroughs, my favorite weapon is definitely the Blind Man's Spear. Very aggressive, fast weapon, you do sooo much stagger damage when your attacks are also perfect blocks. The animations are sick too, really puts his whole body into that charge R2.
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

I need to find that. I know the place its in, just always miss it.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I haven't had a chance to pick this up yet but I've seen some footage, and there's definitely some interesting refinements here to the core "souls" system it's based on. Even something as simple as the backstab indicator is a nice touch taking the mystery out of positioning. Looks like a cool game.
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Re: Lies of P

Post by RGC »

Onto NG+ and just beat...
Spoiler
Scrapped Watchman. His ground electricity caused me quite a few deaths! Also, holy hell the fight went on so much longer than NG, even with the mighty trident + multiple fatal attacks (I'm experimenting with other weapons, but you know how it is when you get comfy with a particular move set).
Loved my first run through this game! I heard that some folks beat the first loop blind in ~30 hours, which is pretty surprising as it took me at least double that, ending on level 95. My levelling toward the end became fairly aimless though. Once TEC hit low 40s, I started evenly distributing points between VIT (27 at end), VIG (28), CAP (28). Didn't put anything into the other stats, and no summoning (whatta guy!).

Favourite boss:
Spoiler
Laxasia, though barely scraped the win.
(Black rabbit close second)
Toughest three were probably (in no particular order):
Spoiler
Swamp monster
Romeo
Laxasia

Edit: Nameless Puppet most likely belongs in this list, but I somewhat lucked out in defeating his second form after not too many attempts (certainly way fewer than the others). My run up attempts ended in utter annihilation, then it felt like the pendulum suddenly swang the other way, and I chinned him enough times to cause a stagger, released a volley of cowardly falcon eye missiles, and ended with a jumping attack which could have gone either way!
Looking forward to your write up, Stevens!
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

Just started NG+4. Game is getting easier with every cycle. Just started using the
Spoiler
twin dragon sword
and holy shit it's busted, but not in a bad way.

The charged r2 parry is insanely good, but it comes with the caveat of having a different parry timing. I've been making the game harder for myself - I no longer use
Spoiler
guard regen
and am only using seven heals.

That said I just spanked
Spoiler
Murphy
and while I took a hit I didn't have to heal at all.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P

Post by Stevens »

I just started NG+4 and have a little over 150 hours. I stand by my initial few posts here - this is the real deal. It just happens to not be made by Fromsoft. Neowiz and Round8 deserve accolades. They studied and they did their homework.

This isn't a great souls like, it's a Souls game.

Here are some thoughts - spoilers marked obviously - but I will try to use as few as possible.

Visually the game is fantastic and incredibly well optimized. I have it maxed out on a 1660 and get 60 fps. It may go higher - my laptop is capped at 60. Long story less long - it looks great and you don't need bleeding edge tech to run it. There are also a shit ton of QOL improvements the team made like elevators that
Spoiler
reset upon death
. There are others, but that's a big one.

The game starts off good, the first two levels are a nice intro. It really picks up in chapter three and especially four. By early mid game the levels really find their stride and get better and better. In my humble opinion the final stage is grand in scale and truly fitting of a final stage. The game's pacing is on point.

You'll hear the word linear used to describe Lies like it's a con, but stealing some stuff from BIL here - the linearity is one of the game's greatest strengths. It is a tight, concise experience. That said the level design is brilliant, especially from mid game on. And there are some seriously amazing moments with the scenery - both indoors and outdoors. The art direction is top notch and I think they are up for an award. No bullshit getting in the way of what the game does best, which brings us to -

Combat is fast and brutal. The weapons (of those I've used) feel good. Everything feels like it should - Technique (dex/skill) weapons are quick and light though some actually pack a punch usually reserved for strength weapons. Motivity (strength) weapons feel massive and weighty. When you act in combat you're doing one of four things: attacking, guarding, parrying, or dodging.

Attacking deals the obvious damage to the enemies life, but also builds stagger ala Sekiro.

You can choose to parry. It is a seemingly tight eight frame window, but once you learn which attacks you are comfortable parrying it starts to click. Parrying also builds the stagger window. When the enemies bar glows white you can stagger them with a charged r2. This will let you do a fatal/visceral. You can also smack them around a bit during the stagger window. This can lead to huge damage once you figure things out.

Guarding will take recoverable damage which you can rally back. Does not build stagger. Dodging. You know what this is: ) Quick step lovers rejoice.

Combat feels best when switching between all options on the fly. Even if it is a five or six hit string - you can parry some, guard some, and dodge at the end. It flows really well.

Enemy design is really good. I don't want to spoil anything. They look and animate wonderfully and are fun to fight - especially elites/bosses. I love the boss encounters in Lies. Each one is designed to test different mechanics and play styles. Without giving anything away in my first and second run I got hung up on the same boss for three hours. 3rd run took him down in three tries and in NG+3 first try. Another boss in NG+ for three hours again I got in one try in +2 and a few tries in +3. They are one of P's highlights. A proper gallery of rogues.

Weapons are plentiful and as you have probably heard can be split to handles and blades and combined to make some interesting things. There are a lot of weapons I haven't touched cause I'm that guy. They're all viable though. Boss-weapons cannot be split. Three of my five favorite weapons are boss weapons. I assure you there is something for everyone here. Boss Ergo (blood echoes) can be traded for either a weapon or an amulet.

Weight does come into play as a stat called capacity. Level capacity.

Ah I knew I was forgetting something - the legion arm. These add a wonderful layer to combat and there are a variety that perform different functions. You have your standard arm - which when leveled hits very hard. Puppet string turns you into a certain Shinobi from a recent game. You also have electric, acid, fire - which cause status ailments. Each enemy type is weak to one. There is also a cannon and one that lays land mines. haven't really used that one. That said they all look pretty cool in addition to their functionality.

Lastly - Lies has some top tier NPC's. Well written and excellently acted. The story is solid and while the main story is explained there is still plenty to lore dive on.

I don't think I can add much else without giving anything away.

GO PLAY LIES OF P
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

The landmine arm is unfortunately a bit underwhelming, IMO. It deals comparable damage to the cannon arm, but is more finicky because instead of just shooting them in the face, you need to lead them to step on the mine. All the other arms are great though, my personal fave is the flamethrower.
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by RGC »

Nice one Stevens. A resounding endorsement if ever there was one. It's true what you say about the parry system, and I like that you can pick and choose which attacks to guard, parry, dodge, or simply run away from.

One anecdotal thing I'll note as I reach area VII on NG+ is just how much ergo is thrown your way on loop 2. Superficially, the amount required for the next ascension seems barely more than the last (I haven't actually calculated those numbers); combined with the much increased ergo amount awarded by regular enemy kills means you're constantly able to level up. Obviously, some gradual limits start to kick in after a while, but this still amounts to big gains. For example, since I'm still not touching motivity or advance, my other stats are daft, e.g. teq 50, cap 52 (with vig not far behind).

I'm wondering if they haven't quite got the balance right here (in terms of ergo drop), as I'm absolutely ploughing through bosses on NG+. While I'd love to say it's because I've got the attack patterns down, the reality is the fights are far clumsier than round one. I'm simply faster and more nimble, can take more hits, have more reserve stamina to get away, and stagger enemies more easily.

I could be imagining all of this! I don't remember being able to level so often with NG+ BB.

Edit: Of course, there's also p-organ enhancement to consider here (fnar fnar!), so ease of bosses may not all be about the ergo/levels.

Anyone found any interesting blade-handle combos yet? Initially, I stuck to ~3-4 stock weapons, but now I've started dabbling with custom jobbies I'm really appreciating some of the possibilities. For example, Wintry Rapier blade works wonders with City Longspear handle for lightweight, machine gun-like poke, poke, poke action. For satisfying closer quarter combat, bolt the same blade onto the Blind Man's Double-Sided Spear Handle.
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by Stevens »

Volteccer_Jack wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:46 am The landmine arm is unfortunately a bit underwhelming, IMO. It deals comparable damage to the cannon arm, but is more finicky because instead of just shooting them in the face, you need to lead them to step on the mine. All the other arms are great though, my personal fave is the flamethrower.
I had read as much elsewhere regarding the landmine arm. Needs a damage boost to make it worthwhile.

I always have the OG arm equipped. Love hitting staggered enemies before completing the fatal. The other is either falcon, string, shock, or acid depending on my mood.

RGC - I've been digging
Spoiler
mjolnir head on well any handle with just slash.
Feels good smashing fuckers.

But that one boss weapon - the busted one - man once you learn the parry time...it's seriously one of the most satisfying weapons in a souls title ever. At least against bosses which is where it really shines.

Other weapons I use -
Spoiler
rapier, military shovel, Sword of Uroboros (slept on hard), and the Ripper.
Edit - Just beat
Spoiler
Fallen Archbishop Andreus
in NG+4 with no heals.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by RGC »

Well, I spoke too soon in saying NG+ bosses are breezy compared to NG.
Spoiler
Laxasia
...is bringing the pain with her second phase! It's such a relentless barrage of melee attacks, especially compared to phase one, I always get overwhelmed, panic, and mess up anything timing related. :lol:

I don't know what all the fuss is about with the...
Spoiler
Archbishop's second phase. You just go behind him and repeat the technique for his first phase, pretty much.
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Stevens
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by Stevens »

Glad to see you're still at it RGC.

I think I have hit my limit for now, I just finished NG+4 at 175 hours. I'll come back for sure after a nice break and start a fresh NG cycle. I really enjoyed my time in Krat. I think five rounds is a testament to how streamlined the game is. My last run was maybe 10 hours. I ran through the 2nd half. I could tell fatigue was setting in.

People will be talking about this game for years.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Lander
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Re: Lies of P - Spoiler Free Review Page 3.

Post by Lander »

Joseph Anderson put out a tidy hour-ish critique of P the other day.
Pretty glowing as critical works go, definitely makes me want to experience it for myself!
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