Contra: Operation Galuga

[XoPachi]

I like Shattered Soldier's look but it can be dingy. It makes up for it in the really creative designs and the smart uses of it's more vibrant color choices amidst it's gun metal and muted tones. I think the style also allows some of it's more grotesque creatures to REALLY be utter nightmare fuel which is what I want to see in Contra. It's just above Hard Corps with my favorite uglies in the series. The unbelievably amazing music for the game also complements it's grungy look perfectly and there are moments where the game is still having a lot of fun with itself. The big robot boss on the sea is the kind of goofy shit you come to expect from the series. But it's still got the layer of grit the game was pushing so it's not entirely tonally inconsistent.

I said this months ago in a previous thread but I never knew why it got so much flak when I used to see it talked about many years ago. It isn't without flaws and some complaints I get absolutely. I just still think the game is really good.

[xxx1993]

I think the biggest criticism I have with Shattered Soldier is the Hit Rate system. You can't miss a single enemy, and you can't lose a life either. You have to get an A or S rank to get the best ending.

[Ghegs]

Honestly SS is just damn near perfect with some tweaks here and there: More run and gun segments, brightness and music/SFX slider. I like the fixed 6-weapon mode makes it more tactical ala Irem shmups (certain sections best suited with correct weapon). One of the best feature in any run and gun that's really important: Direction lock will make you aim in one angle while moving freely, very good for boss battles! And sadly many modern run and gun lacks this feature for whatever reason. Games like Cuphead would've been greatly benefited with it IMO, even I don't think this feature would be present in Operation Galuga either (it did appear in Hard Corps Uprising btw).

I always love it when a game lets me use any weapon whenever I want, rather than having to wait for a pick-up. And yeah, direction lock kicks ass. Not sure why it's so often left aside in favor of movement lock.

I think the biggest criticism I have with Shattered Soldier is the Hit Rate system. You can't miss a single enemy, and you can't lose a life either. You have to get an A or S rank to get the best ending.

Not exactly true, since not all enemies count towards Hit Rate. But yeah, that was awesome. Probably my greatest and most favorite gaming accomplishment is my no-death, no-restart, full S-rank run on Shattered Soldier, and it might have been the first video of such posted on Youtube. Back when Youtube had a 10 minute limit on video length so I had to split it into six separate videos...good times.

[BurlyHeart]

They also mention an "upgraded weapon system" in the YouTube description

To be fair this is probably just the AC Super Contra / Operation C / Contra 4 weapon upgrade mechanic; the screenshots on the official site show weapon icons of different colors in a way that indicates something like that is going on. Plus there are weapon-dependent supers / charge shots that seem to require some kind of significant charge time (see the O under the players' health bars). Nothing too offensive, inherently, though depending on how the super's charging works I could see that being problematic.

I'm reasonably optimistic for this. At least it's a sidescroller and doesn't look and sound immediately repellent, even if its visuals are pretty bland.

Hopefully! I guess I'm just worried about a shop-like mechanic, similar to Double Dragon Neon, River City Girls, Dawn of the Monsters etc. We'll see hot it pans out.

[NYN]

I didn't even notice the air dashing here but I see it now. That's another negative for me.

Make that a double 0 nega, since there is also a ground-dash. It's at 0:50 in the vid, performed by the Lance. And a HC slide, performed by one of the babes in the same scene.

That makes it a whole new tool box (heh), certainly no country for old-men gunner.

[Considering HC Uprising mechs and techs: for me there is no middle ground in this one. Players can tumble like a brick in terms of vintage C handling, or speed it up by running like a blue needler. Aesthetics and design aside, that is voiding the experience for me. Music's in heavy hands, though.]

[XoPachi]

I dunno. I just like movement. I don't see dashing taking away anything as long as the difficult compensates for increased mobility. Also, someone mentioned health I think? I can't imagine they wouldn't put in some kind of classic/hard mode with 1 hit deaths.

[xxx1993]

I already 1CC’d both Shattered Soldier and Neo myself. But yeah, the Hit Rate requires a LOT of memorization. As for whether or not Operation Galuga needs a shop system, at least Hard Corps: Uprising did that one well.

[To Far Away Times]

Honestly SS is just damn near perfect with some tweaks here and there: More run and gun segments, brightness and music/SFX slider. I like the fixed 6-weapon mode makes it more tactical ala Irem shmups (certain sections best suited with correct weapon). One of the best feature in any run and gun that's really important: Direction lock will make you aim in one angle while moving freely, very good for boss battles! And sadly many modern run and gun lacks this feature for whatever reason.

This is pretty much my thoughts. Shattered Soldier is my favorite in the series because it is so mechanically sublime.

Eventually I grew to like the set piece heavy game play and the hit rate system too. I got good enough to 1CC it with an A rank. It's a straight up memorization game, but one that is instantly memorable and fair, like the best of 'em.

[Austin]

I'll be cautiously optimistic. The visuals and sound effects shown in the trailer are pretty awful, even by Xbox Live Arcade 360 standards. I did enjoy Contra 4 pretty heavily though and am already seeing gameplay parallels to that, so we'll see how it turns out.

[Sumez]

Wayforward is behind this one, so I have low hopes.

I dunno, I liked Contra 4 and Spidersaurs kicked ass…

Contra 4 is probably the only really good game WayForward ever made, and to my knowledge the people behind that bolted to make Shovel Knight.

Like BurlyHeart touched on - WayForward are usually great at nailing a really nice presentation, and they know how to make their games feel smooth and control well. It's just that they never use that to make anything great, their games are almost always super boring and forgettable, and usually pushed out to rush a massive quantity of licensed games instead of focusing on quality. That half-genie hero kickstarter was a farce. Such a lazy game.

I think the biggest criticism I have with Shattered Soldier is the Hit Rate system. You can't miss a single enemy, and you can't lose a life either. You have to get an A or S rank to get the best ending.

This is the most fun part of the game.

[XoPachi]

That half-genie hero kickstarter was a farce. Such a lazy game.

I backed that and was so incredibly disappointed.

I can't say I felt swindled. It was a polished, complete game that delivered all its goals/rewards on time. But it was boring, yeah. It was the most by the numbers, pull you by the nose game I had played up to that point and it just didnt even try for a unique approach. It really made me realize that I didnt like WayForward as much as I thought I did.

2 was peak imo. But thats mainly with the buffer of it being pretty good for its limited platform.

I miss their pixel art. l:C

[Sumez]

Yeah, it's a mostly standard Shantae game, and I think the more linear stage approach rather than trying to be a halfway metroidvania probably did it well. And the soundtrack of course is fantastic.

But WayForward already pumps out new Shantae games constantly, and on average they are probably making like five games of this standard a year as it is, without any kind of crowdfunding.
So you'd think that when they make a kickstarter like this, it's because they want to make something special - the game they really want to make, that takes the time it needs rather than trying to meet some kind of corporate budget. But then the game comes out and it's like all their other games - that really feels like a rip-off, just using KS as a marketing ploy.

It honestly feels like WayForward could make better games if they really wanted to, but they just don't really care?

[Steven]

I apparently must be really tired because I somehow read the thread title as Contra: Operation Garbage. I should probably sleep more than I do.

[Lemnear]

I apparently must be really tired because I somehow read the thread title as Contra: Operation Garbage. I should probably sleep more than I do.

Is instead , with lots of probability, a moment of extreme lucidity.

[XoPachi]

So you'd think that when they make a kickstarter like this, it's because they want to make something special - the game they really want to make, that takes the time it needs rather than trying to meet some kind of corporate budget. But then the game comes out and it's like all their other games - that really feels like a rip-off, just using KS as a marketing ploy.

It honestly feels like WayForward could make better games if they really wanted to, but they just don't really care?

Yeah thats a good point.

The thing they were pushing with Shantae 4 in the kickstarter was trying to "modernize" it. They wanted more voicing for it. They wanted smoother animation work (regardless of whether its better animation work). They wanted their voiced opening theme song. And of course they wanted some shiny new AYTCH-DEE visuals! "Wow lookit dem GREFIX!!" The graphics especially were their biggest priority. I've seen a lot of old franchises go back to basics and have much more fulfilling results. You know like Contra 4.

I actually dont really remember them advertising new features of gameplay during the campaign aside from the usual Shantae stuff. Thinking back on it, it just seemed so self conscious. Like they felt Shantae needed to graduate or something. Maybe she did, but it seemed so unfocused.
Part of me wants to think 4 walked so later games could run, but then I look at 5......yeah.

I know it isnt technically new but I hope Shantae Advance is good. Because I'm not trying to just dunk on the series.

And yes, Shantae 4 did have some fire. I still fondly remember Counterfeit Mermaids.

[xxx1993]

You thought the Hit Rate was fun? I didn’t like it one bit.

[XoPachi]

I just find the hit rate to further encourage and reward the mindset you already enter a Contra (or almost any arcade action game) with. You should be trying to kill as much as possible as efficiently as possible while not dying as it is. I think grade scores only make it more apparent to players that there's more to be done in a stage and it just jacks up the replay value as you dive back into levels to see what you can push.

I appreciated it. I see it as a way to get longevity out of the game without turning Contra into something it isn't to "modernize" it.

[Ghegs]

The Hit Rate worked great exactly because it was directly tied to the grades, and therefore to progress. With the total absence of score, they could've gone for speed or accuracy as a measurement of player proficiency, and I'm certainly glad they didn't go for accuracy. Imagine losing % just because your machine gun fire is hitting only air. Speed could've been good too, but I think Hit Rate worked better with the boss-centric gameplay, since it makes you destroy every part of a boss. And while memorization is obviously a key component in the game's mastery, I feel Shattered Soldier is pretty lenient here, since having six weapons available at all times gives you a lot of options to come up with your own personal approach to any given situation.

S-ranking Neo Contra wasn't as fulfilling because the requirement for S-rank wasn't as strict. Though I believe the loosened requirement, and the dodge move, were implemented as a balance/crutch against the camera, which sometimes made it difficult to accurately see exactly where a danger was.

And grades, man, yeah. I love it when games give grades. Gives you clear, concrete goals to aim for, and it feels nice to hit a new grade and know you're making progress.

[copy-paster]

I feel like S-ranking or even getting A rank in all stages in Neo Contra is way harder especially with default loadouts, getting below 95% will give you B rank from what I remember (in contrast to SS you will get a B if your rank is below 85%) and there are some really tricky, one-and-done parts like the turrets on Stage 4A and the worm miniboss from st3 have all of his body as Hit Rate parts.

[Ghegs]

Since it's been over 10 years my memory is admittedly hazy on the details, but I remember I managed a full S-rank clear on Neo much, much faster than in Shattered Soldier. The loadout does play a large factor there as well, another reason why Shattered Soldier is superior.

[Sumez]

I just find the hit rate to further encourage and reward the mindset you already enter a Contra (or almost any arcade action game) with. You should be trying to kill as much as possible as efficiently as possible while not dying as it is. I think grade scores only make it more apparent to players that there's more to be done in a stage and it just jacks up the replay value as you dive back into levels to see what you can push.

Exactly this.
As a "scoring system" it obviously has no depth, but it serves well as a basic skill rating that lets the player know that there is more to go for. I feel the same about the ranking system in Cuphead - "you beat the stage, now do it again, here are the things you could do even better". It's a great enticement to dig into a game for real, and it definitely worked its magic on me back when Shattered Soldier came out.

[xxx1993]

I feel like S-ranking or even getting A rank in all stages in Neo Contra is way harder especially with default loadouts, getting below 95% will give you B rank from what I remember (in contrast to SS you will get a B if your rank is below 85%) and there are some really tricky, one-and-done parts like the turrets on Stage 4A and the worm miniboss from st3 have all of his body as Hit Rate parts.

It's the other way around, usually... Wasn't Neo meant to be easier than SS? Though I sometimes struggle with Mission 4 of Neo because of the part where you have to destroy some turrets.

[To Far Away Times]

If games like Elemental Master, Pocky and Rocky, and Out Zone are shmups... then does that make Neo Contra a shmup?

[xxx1993]

Might as well be. I don't know why the Contra and Metal Slug franchises aren't considered shmups in the first place.

[XoPachi]

Because the platforming elements, player controlled scrolling, and limitations on movement in both fundamentally change how they're played compared to STG's.
They're adjacent to the genre, but they're not the same.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

If games like Elemental Master, Pocky and Rocky, and Out Zone are shmups... then does that make Neo Contra a shmup?

I'd think Elemental Master is just a regular shmup, isn't it? The on-foot player character is just an aesthetic touch; the game autoscrolls like any other traditional shooter and doesn't have any particular elements from other genres. Pocky and Rocky, Outzone, and Neo Contra are all certainly in that gray area though.

-

I'd agree Neo Contra is a lot easier to S-rank than Shattered Soldier, but most of it is because of the more lenient requirements (since you're allowed so many more deaths and missed enemies in Neo). In terms of the stages themselves, though, I don't think Neo Contra is much easier to no-miss / full-kills than Shattered Soldier.

I do have a lot of trouble with the bit where you board the airships and have to shoot all the turrets. I've S-ranked the game a few times and I'm still not sure how to reliably kill them all with the standard weapon sets.

[xxx1993]

In Neo Contra you have at least three chances to get an S-rank. Die three times and kiss that S-rank goodbye.

[evil_ash_xero]

WayForward were much better at sprites and cell shaded games. Their pure polygonal games need work. I wasn't thrilled with their remake of Advance Wars.
It might be fun, though.

Contra 4 was awesome.

[cfx]

Advance Wars does have that kind of "cheap mobile game" look to it doesn't it? I think it lost the character of the original.

But...I don't know if Wayforward is to blame for that since I don't know what Nintendo asked for, what kind of budget they allowed, etc.

[XoPachi]

Yeah, I don't like Reboot Camp's look at all. I'm not a fan of most of the artwork either. Looks like Tumblr fan art and much of it had it's sharp shape language rounded out. Some characters were overly exaggerated like Olaf and some others were just completely drained.

Like...just look at this.



How did you fuck him up so badly?