R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari

[Steven]

I wonder how the modding scene will go now. Since there's going to be two Generations now, I wonder what will become the better of the two. Seems like a big boost for that scene in general. No doubt there will be higher quality assets and new ones to use.

I would not be surprised if someone put at least some of the new assets in the old game within the first two or three days after launch, and that's being generous; Sonic Origins had music mods within the first few hours of its release.

It would be pretty hilarious if someone recreated all of the new stuff in the original Generations with the new assets. No real need to buy the new one, in that case. I actually expect this is pretty likely.

Oh yeah, today is the 30th anniversary of the release of Sonic 3. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles, just Sonic 3. Yay, happiness! It, when combined with its other half, is still the best Sonic game.

[Lander]

Shadow is the original Coldsteel the 'Edgehog: Ouch I Cut Myself. He's an awful character-a straight rip of Vegeta and the start of a lot of Sanic Team shamelessly stealing from Dragon Ball. Yes, I know Sanic went super saiyan in the classic games after collecting the dragem balls, but even so.

Sonc stories are awful and Shadow appeared in the games when the story took more of a front-seat.

Everything in relativity Vegeta Rip still beats out Strapped Vegeta Rip With Harley, even if only by a small margin in the wider picture.

I think the only good Sonic story I ever encountered was Sonic Battle.

Man, I'd forgotten about that. Can the amnesiac murder machine have a soul? is fairly deep-thinking for Sonic Team.

I remember finding it weird and uncomfortable at the time probably due to following Metropolis (2001), rented from Blockbuster at an altogether too-tender age because the cover looked cool.

Cyber City Starring Captain Shades (feat. Surprise Philosophical Trauma)

[To Far Away Times]

Shadow is the original Coldsteel the 'Edgehog: Ouch I Cut Myself. He's an awful character-a straight rip of Vegeta and the start of a lot of Sanic Team shamelessly stealing from Dragon Ball. Yes, I know Sanic went super saiyan in the classic games after collecting the dragem balls, but even so.

Sonc stories are awful and Shadow appeared in the games when the story took more of a front-seat. I think the only good Sonic story I ever encountered was Sonic Battle.

Shadow is the equivalent of watching pro wrestling as an adult and listening to Limp Bizket.

Adventure 1 was a bad game, but you can tell Sega really gave it their all, it just didn't work out.

Adventure 2 was when Sega doubled down on the bad stuff and didn't fix the stuff that needed fixing and sent series into the toilet. Sega was now committing to making Sonic turds. Shadow will always be directly linked to the downfall of the series, in my mind.

[Steven]

Adventure 1 is actually pretty good for most of the game, especially the Sonic and Tails parts. Gamma is also pretty okay. Knuckles is likely a tossup based on personal preference but better than his SA2 version, so in the end I think he works out fine enough. Big and Amy are not so great, but at least their stories are really short and you don't have to put up with them for too long.

SA1 also at least attempts to have MD physics, unlike every other official 3D Sonic game, but the controls feel clunky and unresponsive when moving slowly and loose and imprecise when moving fast, so I'd understand if someone said they hate how the game controls.

[ryu]

I loved Adventure 2. But I was 14 at the time I got to play it on Gamecube and was just happy to be able to play it at all since my family never had a Dreamcast. A friend also played the game and we spent dozens of hours on the multiplayer, that probably boosted my overall enjoyment of the game. Didn't like Adventure much when its port came out a few years later, but I can somewhat enjoy it for what it is these days (playing the less glitchy original on DC).

Sonic Heroes I thought was fine until I went on to complete it with all teams. Hated having to play basically the same game over and over. Team Dark's hard mode was alright, the rest just unnecessary. Thought the weapons in Shadow's game were stupid but the game itself was surprisingly fun and admittedly I liked the plot at the time.

Then everyone bad-talked Sonic 06 and I wasn't interested in switchting to a HD setup so my next game was Sonic Colors. Eventually I got a PS3 for Generation and also bought Sonic 06 for the lulz. Ironically I thought that the game's actual stages were pretty fun despite its somewhat janky mechanics. I think it would have had a better reception had they omitted the stupid story, the horrible over world and the terrible side quests.

[Sima Tuna]

Sonic 06 had the concept right, if not execution. Its problems have been documented extensively by many. I'll always remember Slowbeef and Diabeetus suffering through that game. As much as Slowbeef sucks balls at video games (he will admit as much,) there were many unforgivable acts the game committed against his sanity.

What 06 did right:

-large scope
-big ideas
-fully 3d
-colorful
-fast

What 06 did wrong:

-collision detection is a joke
-manual saves only -> game over resets to last manual save -> it's possible to lose an entire save file if you game over early
-physics don't work
-spaghetti code
-the concept behind Silver's gameplay is fucking stupid
-Tails' ring bomb having the same models and sound effects as actual rings dropping out of your character is infuriating
-Knuckles and Rouge gameplay are jank as hell with the lack of working physics
-Shadow's vehicles are broken
-snowboarding is broken
-bosses are broken
-Amy's gameplay is shit
-too many playable characters in general (most are bad)
-2/3 of the game is repeated content and forced filler with locked rooms and enemies you are required to kill
-all the fire areas look ugly as sin
-playing 06 "well" seems to be largely a matter of moving from scripted point to point and letting the game play itself... When those very elements aren't breaking and sending you through the floor

Would 06 be a good game if it weren't rushed? I'm still going to say no. Mainly because Silver's gameplay is fucking terrible and both he and Shadow retread Sonic campaign. Best case scenario is Sonic Team would have deleted Shadow and Silver's campaigns to make Sonic's longer. But I don't think they ever intended to do that, even in a world where '06 had infinite time and money. They probably would have fixed most of the collision issues, but not the lack of momentum for characters. I don't think the sheer amount of playable characters in 06 would have worked out regardless. There are too many and most of their special abilities are stupid or jank. To the point I don't know what they were trying to do, in the event they could patch the game to realize its full potential. Tails' ring bombs are just annoying and stupid.

[Steven]

06 is still less bad than Heroes. At least some things sort of semi-function in 06, but almost nothing functions in Heroes, unless Heroes' power to repel people with its badness was a design choice. At least Heroes actually looks like a Sonic game, unlike 06 and Frontiers.

[ryu]

All the broken stuff in 06 just made me want to beat it so much more. It felt like it was taunting me finish it.

[Steven]

I thought 06 was actually kind of boring...

[ryu]

I thought 06 was actually kind of boring...

Isn't that because of everything outside of the actual stages? The bloat slows the pacing down to an awful crawl. Please don't make me remember.

[Steven]

I thought 06 was actually kind of boring...

Isn't that because of everything outside of the actual stages? The bloat slows the pacing down to an awful crawl. Please don't make me remember.

There is that, but the stages aren't that interesting to me. Don't forget about the loading times, though! Even in that case I've played games that have way longer loading times, like some of the earlier builds of the Star Citizen beta.

[ryu]

I thought 06 was actually kind of boring...

Isn't that because of everything outside of the actual stages? The bloat slows the pacing down to an awful crawl. Please don't make me remember.

There is that, but the stages aren't that interesting to me. Don't forget about the loading times, though! Even in that case I've played games that have way longer loading times, like some of the earlier builds of the Star Citizen beta.

You're right, I probably should have mentioned the loading times explicitly. They were inexcusable. I remember each side quest requiring two loading screens. And when you failed you had to go through them all over again. Oh god, the memories are painful.

[Steven]

I remember each side quest requiring two loading screens. And when you failed you had to go through them all over again. Oh god, the memories are painful.

I forgot about this! Lol the double loading times on just about everything... what a funny game.

[ryu]

There was also that one side quest with shadow where you had to drive a jeep or something, and it involved a ton of trial and error because the vehicle "controlled poorly". I think I wasted at least an hour in the loading screens for that quest alone.

[To Far Away Times]

The problems with Sonic 06 are deep and systemic.

You don't end up with a cutscene of a human/hedgehog romance without everything else leading up to that point also being a bad idea.

[null1024]

The problems with Sonic 06 are deep and systemic.

You don't end up with a cutscene of a human/hedgehog romance without everything else leading up to that point also being a bad idea.

Sure you do!
Seriously, Sonic was planned to have a human GF since day one, although it was an idea that got dropped before release. I'm not kidding, look it up.

...but seriously, I don't think I'd ever seen a game from a major developer launch in such a blatantly unfinished state as 06.

Like sure, Shadow and Heroes were unpleasant for a lot of reasons, but 06 is just not a product in a state that should have been sold to consumers.
Compare something that is merely poorly designed to something held together with duct tape [and also poorly designed]. 06 as released feels like it should be a prototype build from 7 months before release, while Shadow and Heroes feel like something that I could see a company putting out the door, even despite the fact that they're kind of shit.

[ryu]

...but seriously, I don't think I'd ever seen a game from a major developer launch in such a blatantly unfinished state as 06.

The story goes that the game was planned to be an exclusive for some console. But management changed their mind on that partway through development and Microsoft and Sony's console weren't as similar as they are today. Apparently just porting the game over took them all their remaining resources, leaving them unable to finish polishing it.

[Steven]

Naka also left partway through development. I wonder if he left specifically because it wasn't going the way he wanted, both in terms of the game itself and management forcing ridiculous requirements on the dev team. Management, and their deadline, is likely the primary reason the game released the way it did.

It seems that Senoue is signing stuff at the Sonic Symphony, so I might be able to get some games signed on Sunday. I really wish I had boxed Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, but those are very rare and expensive here, especially S&K. I guess I'll try to get my Dreamcast SA1 and SA2 signed if I can. I got Hiro-shishou to sign my Sonic Frontiers last year along with Space Harrier and After Burner II, so it would be nice to get some more Sonic stuff signed.

[Steven]

KNUCKLES HAS HIS HAT

[XoPachi]

THAT MFER IS CRANKIN' HIS HOG!

[Lander]

SHIT YEAH

TIME FOR 10 HOURS OF SOUTH ISLAND ZONE BGM

[Steven]

Just got back from the Sonic Symphony. It was pretty fucking awesome. If you have an opportunity to go, don't think about it. Just go.

I think about 20% of the setlist was Frontiers. I can't remember everything, but they streamed it on ABEMA and the stream is available until the 18th, so I'll probably watch it again before it goes away and post the setlist.

Still disappointed I didn't go see BUMP today since today is important to them (28 years round) and I checked their setlist and it was almost exactly what I expected it to be, but I'm glad I went to the Sonic Symphony.

edit: hm, I found it on Youtube. Interesting. Here it is, in case anyone wants it. Not sure if this is even supposed to be on Youtube, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpBzZ66W7LA

[ryu]

Just got back from the Sonic Symphony. It was pretty fucking awesome. If you have an opportunity to go, don't think about it. Just go.

I ended up watching through the whole thing instead of having it play in the background. Loved how self conscious everyone on stage was. Definitely feels like I missed out on a fun show.

But who suggested they should all be wearing medallions of Sonic characters? Do they even know where that comes from?

[Steven]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. There are still a few shows left before the tour is over, so anyone who is thinking about going should go if possible. If they do it again and come back here I'll definitely go again.

My PS5 has been collecting dust since I got the Steam Deck, but I turned it on to torture myself with Same! Same! Same! a few days ago I noticed there was another new update for Superstars. I wonder what it and the previous one did. At the same time I don't like the game enough to want to play it again, at least not right now. I have been considering revisiting Frontiers, however, but I'd prefer to use my time to continue training for Same! Same! Same! instead. That game is ridiculously and hilariously difficult, so I need to practice a lot.

[Steven]

Wait WTF I just got an email from Steam saying Penny's Big Breakaway is out. I thought it wouldn't be out for a while! I'll buy it when I get paid in a few days.

[ryu]

Is the game available on consoles too?

Was continuing Superstars with friends last weekend. We played on PS5 this time and the difference was night and day. No slowdown at all anymore. But we triggered a glitch in the desert zone where the effect you get when jumping up sandfalls wouldn't disappear and caused us to move at a snail's pace through half the level....

[XoPachi]

Just like Contra, I'm hearing this is having Switch issues?

[Steven]

Doesn't pretty much everything have issues on Switch at this point?

[ryu]

Just like Contra, I'm hearing this is having Switch issues?

If you're planning to play local multiplayer you're definitely advised not to get the switch version. How well it runs in single player mode I have no idea, but not even the PS4 could handle 3 players simultaneously.

[Steven]

Just like Contra, I'm hearing this is having Switch issues?

not even the PS4 could handle 3 players simultaneously.

For Contra? That's really bad... bad optimization, most likely. Given the not-especially-high quality of the textures and models in that game the PS4 should it run a hell of a lot better than that. I downloaded the PS5 demo earlier but haven't had a chance to try it yet. I didn't know until just now that there is also a PC demo, but I might as well try that too.

For Penny's Big Breakaway, some of the negative Steam reviews make it seem like the game is undercooked in some ways, and I've already seen reports of crashing on Steam Deck. Lol Steam Deck. I love the thing and it's probably the system I've used more than all others combined since I got it, but that Linux + Proton setup just does not work for some games. I will see for myself how the game is, but it is possible it might have benefited from some more development time. I hope they didn't rush it.