Sanwa JLX - replacement to the JLF series

[Gunstar]

This was announced back in February I believe


Something MarkMan heard about this model:


Video impressions here showing the silent model and the adjustable switches:


I assume the silent version shown in the vid above is just one variant, excited to try this!

[bigbadboaz]

I'm curious to see how this is received. I have a feeling it will underperform. The JLF became a standard and sold umpteen copies over decades with basically one form - it just worked for so many people. The many configurations and options on this JLX imply that they couldn't figure out how to actually improve on the legend.

The big question is, why now? Is this when sales finally started to fall off in the face of all the options being offered by competitors? But the JLF - outside of those who just never took to it - seems like a clear case of "not broken". I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out just like when Seimitsu tried to phase out the LS-32 and the JLF ends up soldiering on, stronger than its "replacement".

[bobrocks95]

Silent only the video made it sound like? Or are there two variants?

[emphatic]

Wow, seriously digging the direction they're going with these.

[buttersoft]

looks nice, i'll probably try one if the prices aren't weirdly high.

I'd love a technical diagram for it, showing the dimensions and clearances. I'd assume it's a drop-in replacement for the JLF, as doing anything else would be suicide from a sales perspective. I wonder if the PCB with the new switches would just fit a JLF tho...

[Gunstar]

August 3rd release date

[buttersoft]

Cool, would love more info as it becomes available

[bigbadboaz]

I'm pretty amazed that this major launch has seen pretty much.. crickets.

[Gunstar]

I wonder if it's because leverless is the new hotness? I haven't got one yet so I don't have an opinion on it

I've seen some impressions from a couple of people I follow on twitter, Arileth is a great SF player and Hibachi has had a ton of sticks/mods sticks for a living (I think)


Some reddit impressions:



Teardown (Note: he didn't realise he had a Kowal oversized actuator on)

[emphatic]

I really miss the SRK Tech Talk forums now. :/ They would've had a deep thread on it by now.

[bigbadboaz]

For sure. The fightsticks subreddit has pretty much taken its place, but JLX talk has been very low.

Gunstar, thanks for posting all those impressions. Hadn't seen most of them and that's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like JLX is a no-brainer for those needing a new Sanwa, but not a necessary upgrade if you have enough JLFs stored up. Personally I still have a Kowal + spring combo I have yet to try on the old stick, so that goes in before I think about anything new.

[cfx]

Sounds like JLX is a no-brainer for those needing a new Sanwa, but not a necessary upgrade if you have enough JLFs stored up.

That really depends on what you want out of a stick.

The comment about "close to a Seimitsu feeling" as well as feeling stiffer and with a shorter throw are all exactly the things I don't want.

Hence I feel that I should buy up some spare JLFs while I still can.

[bigbadboaz]

That particular post seems like an outlier from the early feedback that I did see. It really sounds like a smoother JLF overall, and the larger actuator is more subtle than something like a Kowal. I'm still expecting it to feel very much like a Sanwa.

Of course, this is all secondhand from others' impressions.

[cfx]

I hope you're right. Throw distance would presumably be the same as the JLF if you switch to the JLF actuator, as one of the other posts mentions as well, and presumably that part will still be available since it's part of that mod kit.

[Gunstar]

I think the white actuator on the JLX must be the same one used in the silent JLF, the JLF-P-W

0.9mm wider than stock according to the smallcabs website, so a slightly shorter throw makes sense. My current JLF has a stock spring and Kowal oversize actuator so I like the change personally. One thing that seems to be missing from impressions is the adjustable micro switches they showed, I don't know if that's been scrapped or coming out later as an upgrade. The "less gate rattle" also sounds like the change they made on the silent JLF with the one piece gate design, this JLX sounds like a more refined version of that, minus the silent switches although the PR also mentioned tighter tolerances and better material too so perhaps the feel isn't 100% the same

[cfx]

Yes, it's supposed to be the same white actuator.

The current JLX uses the exact same microswitches as the JLF. Supposedly the version with the adjustable switches is still coming, later.

The potential changes in feel from tighter tolerances is what I'm wondering about. In theory of course that's good, and I'm sure most would be happy with that type of change, but I'm not sure I will be.

I know it's some kind of sacrilege, but I really like the old Happ Ultimate joysticks like were used on some US arcade cabinets, but they aren't very practical due to not being very precise. After some experimentation, I realized that the JLF with the bat top handle and the round gate that Sanwa now offers, has a feel and behavior that's sufficiently like those old US Happ sticks, but with much better precision so games such as shooters are much more playable. I suspect whatever looseness as JLF has due to its tolerances is a component of its feel that I like, which may not be replicated in the JLX from what all the impressions appear to be saying.

[Martinov]

I learned to use sticks during the 2000s via the Agetec and JLF (which feel very similiar), so I'm looking forward to buying one of these in the next few months. If the throw, engage and spring are *slightly* tighter then I'm happy.

[cfx]

I'm surprised by that comment as I don't feel the Dreamcast stick feels like the JLF at all and I never liked the Dreamcast stick.

I think that just shows that different people notice different aspects of the stick feel more than other aspects.

[Martinov]

Yeah, so true! To me the loose spring, throw and engage distances were so alike that I had no trouble adapting to the JLF. On the other hand, I've seen the Agetec stick compared to the LS-32, which I think is crazy. I had to relearn how to use sticks all over again when I went to use Seimitsu sticks, it felt a little alien at first.

[bigbadboaz]

It's definitely much closer to the JLF than an LS-32, but frankly it's not one of the better clones and easily distinguishable from either IMO -

[Rastan78]

The greatest DC stick IMO was from Ascii and was branded for Capcom vs SNK. The one I had was a blue body with white CP and grey buttons. IIRC it also came in black with yellow buttons. Inside was a precise clone of a Sanwa JLF with "Flash" optical PCB and an octogate. Wish I had held onto that one.

I know it's some kind of sacrilege, but I really like the old Happ Ultimate joysticks like were used on some US arcade cabinets, but they aren't very practical due to not being very precise.

If you ever get a chance to play on an old school Happ Perfect 360 you would love it. Smoother and more precise with the same overall feel. I don't think the originals are easy to come by now tho. Also keep in mind arguably one of the best SF players of all time still uses Happ parts in a MAS stick to this day. I think he just won 2 retro SF side tournaments at Evo 2023 and got second in CVS2. Not a single event was won at Evo this year with a leverless controller btw. All pad or stick.

I wonder if it's because leverless is the new hotness? I haven't got one yet so I don't have an opinion on it

I think a lot of people are silently buying and testing out the JLX. At least one place sold out right away. Maybe the version with the new micros will bring some more hype? Gotta admit the JLX is a little underwhelming as is. It seems almost like they were motivated to change things a bit just to differentiate from all the counterfeiters? Not that it will take the copycats long to adjust their molds to mimic the JLX. Always buy your sanwa parts from a reputable place guys.

[cfx]

The greatest DC stick IMO was from Ascii and was branded for Capcom vs SNK. The one I had was a blue body with white CP and grey buttons. IIRC it also came in black with yellow buttons. Inside was a precise clone of a Sanwa JLF with "Flash" optical PCB and an octogate. Wish I had held onto that one.

I remember those, and considered buying one a few times but it was fairly expensive and I wasn't convinced I'd like it. Was there also a non-branded version? I can't remember anymore but was thinking there might have been.

I know it's some kind of sacrilege, but I really like the old Happ Ultimate joysticks like were used on some US arcade cabinets, but they aren't very practical due to not being very precise.

If you ever get a chance to play on an old school Happ Perfect 360 you would love it. Smoother and more precise with the same overall feel. I don't think the originals are easy to come by now tho. Also keep in mind arguably one of the best SF players of all time still uses Happ parts in a MAS stick to this day. I think he just won 2 retro SF side tournaments at Evo 2023 and got second in CVS2. Not a single event was won at Evo this year with a leverless controller btw. All pad or stick.

I actually had a Perfect 360 "conversion kit" and I think it was the original version. As I remember it, the complete sticks Happ sold were based on the Super Joystick, but that kit worked on either a Super or Ultimate. I never did anything with it, because I was totally clueless on how to wire and power it without potentially destroying any console I tried to use it with. I may still have it as I don't remember getting rid of it but I also haven't seen it in years so if I do it's buried in some box somewhere.

I think a lot of people are silently buying and testing out the JLX. At least one place sold out right away. Maybe the version with the new micros will bring some more hype? Gotta admit the JLX is a little underwhelming as is. It seems almost like they were motivated to change things a bit just to differentiate from all the counterfeiters? Not that it will take the copycats long to adjust their molds to mimic the JLX. Always buy your sanwa parts from a reputable place guys.

I'm preparing to finally make sticks for most of my consoles, so before getting into that, I bought a JLX, since I know the only way I'd know if I like it at all and if I prefer or don't compared to the JLF was to just try one, and if I didn't that I'd need to buy the JLFs I will need while I can still get them.

It turns out that I don't like the JLX, the specific aspects of the feel that Sanwa changed are the aspects that I like of the JLF. I agree with certain comments from those impressions above. First, it does feel stiffer than a JLF, and I don't like that. It shouldn't actually be stiffer since it's the same spring, appears to still be compressed the same amount, and the switches are the same. I even verified that on the switches by putting the switch PCB in the JLF I'm testing to see if it felt different than the JLF original. It did not.

Comparing the two, the JLF "rattles" a bit--that's not the right word but it's all I can come up with, and the JLX does not. I assume this is related to the changes in the pivot. Most probably consider this an improvement, but that slight slop in the JLF feel is a big part of what I like about it, because it's what I think makes it a bit like those old Happ sticks.

The oddest difference I found is the sound, which is why I was initially convinced the switches had changed, even though they're obviously the same model. The pitch of the clicking is lower on the JLX. I guess that also has something to do with the overall rigidity so things resonate wiht that click differently. It's a significantly different sound though.

Don't like is a bit strong. If there was no JLF, I'm pretty sure I would adapt to the JLX and still prefer it over a Seimitsu or anything else. But for me it's a step backwards from the JLF.

Initially I tried it as is, but I switched it to the old actuator for a more consistent comparison as well. As far as I can tell, that new actuator shorts the engage distance, but not the total throw to the gate. Since I want to use the Sanwa round gate, that's a real disadvantage because the engage distance is significantly shorter than the distance from engage to gate, for the four cardinal directions.


I would never use a leverless controller. First, I'd totally suck with one; I know this from trying to play PC doujin shooters with the keyboard when I might be trying something and was too lazy to get up and plug in a joystick. Second, a big part of joysticks for me is that there's some kind of logic to them; when playing a shooter it's at least somewhat analgous to actually flying with a flight stick. It's more abstract if it's a platformer or fighter, but there's still some kind of logic to it that makes more sense than just disconnected buttons. I think a lot of the immersive aspects of playing a game go away when the control feels like you aren't really doing anything. It's why I will always play any action game with a joystick when possible, and for most any 2D game it is possible.

That's just my feelings on it, which I know isn't the same for everyone. Mainly I wrote that as some reference that might help explain why I like or don't like certain aspects of different joysticks. Aside from preferences, I also have carpal tunnel syndrome so that affects what I can use and rules out anything that is really stiff, not that I'd prefer that anyway.


Additional note: For testing I got the blue and red Sanwa replacement springs which are linear 1.5 lb. and 2 lb. With the blue 1.5 lb. spring in a JLF, it feels practically identical to the JLX. It may be slightly stiffer, but that bit of rattle that's in the JLF by default disappears where it becomes very similar if not identical to how the JLX feels.

[ACE1CC]

Weird seeing my Reddit post screenshoted here

But yeah I've been daily driving the JLX ever since I got it in early August.

The bottom line is this: it is an incremental improvement to the JLF. If you don't like the JLF, the JLX won't change your mind. But it does address the problems the original JLF had, namely in better parts and a larger actuator to decrease deadzone/quicker engage.

It is very interesting that Sanwa decided to put in a polished nylon pivot, as one of the good things of the JLF was how smooth the pivot actions are and the lack of pivot pop (which is a trait the LS32 has). But yes it is still very smooth, maybe a tad smoother than a JLF.

The real noticeable difference for me is in the larger JLF silent actuator they equipped in the JLX. As I said before, the deadzone has been reduced and the engage is a tad quicker than the stock JLF actuator. Personally I had to readjust some muscle memory from a stock JLF that I was using daily before the JLX, I wasn't used to hitting the switches that soon so I was getting misinputs for awhile. I can understand where @cfx is coming from preferring some deadzone slop, but I think the JLX has just the right amount of deadzone.

But overall I am relieved that the JLX is not a downgrade from the JLF. The changes in parts were long overdue IMO and makes it a better lever, even if changes feel more like an incremental improvment. I'm quite happy with using it for both shmups and fighting games.

[Gunstar]

Thank you both for the impressions/thoughts, cfx and ACE1CC (good to see you here, ACE). Will be grabbing one next time I'm importing things from Japan, I think I'll try and get the model with the adjustable micro switches for that extra customisation

[Bassa-Bassa]

Thanks indeed. Are JLF's gates, actuators and springs compatible with this?

[Rastan78]

Thanks indeed. Are JLF's gates, actuators and springs compatible with this?

According to the Sanwa specs it's only 3 parts of the JLX you want don't want to mess with. The main black body, the large metal washer and the pivot are meant to go together. Other than that you can swap everything out to/from a JLF. The whole pcb switch assembly, shaft, actuator etc.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Sounds good then, thks.

[cfx]

To add a bit to that:

The PCB is dimensionally identical in every way as far as I can tell, with the same switches mounted in the exact same location. I swapped them between the two sticks to see if that had any effect on what I thought of the feel of the two sticks, and it didn't change anything. The color of the PCB is different, and it is claimed to be made of a stiffer material that doesn't flex as much. If that contributes to the feel at all it wasn't something I could notice.

The gates are the exact same parts as the replacements for the JLF that are either sold separately or as part of that upgrade kit. So you have the same extra shapes available but don't have to buy the main gate piece to use them like you do with the JLF since it is already there.

The included spring is the same and the additional ones they introduced can be used though I did not try that since I already thought the JLX was too stiff for my tastes.

The actuator is the same white one that's also sold for the JLF either alone or as part of that upgrade kit. It's also said to be the same one used in the silent version of the JLF as ACE1CC posted above but I've never seen that version of the JLF.

[cfx]

Edit: Somehow I duplicated my post so I deleted the unnecessary text...

[Bassa-Bassa]

The more the info, the better, thks. I'm now curious about that forthcoming PCB with new switches and why they thought that was necessary, to begin with.