Sanwa JLX - replacement to the JLF series

[cfx]

I don't remember where I saw it now so can't provide a link, but what small bit I saw on that was the switches themselves have an adjustment that I guess extends the tab further out so presumably shortens the deadzone and engage distance. But if that is accurate I'm not sure how it's really different than just using a larger actuator. It did mention since it is on each switch, it allows for the possibliity of havning horizontal different than vertical, but I also have no idea why you'd want to do that. Then again they have that gate now that is different horizontally and vertically, so maybe there are people asking for that option; I have no idea.

As you say, we won't really know until it is released. Seems more like a gimmick to me than anything, though.

[Rastan78]

The JLX with adjustable micro leaf switches is out now. Got one ordered from arcade shock. Pics of the inside of the new Sanwa switches show that it's a small leaf switch inside rather than a reed switch like the silent Omrons.

[Basil]

The JLX with adjustable micro leaf switches is out now. Got one ordered from arcade shock. Pics of the inside of the new Sanwa switches show that it's a small leaf switch inside rather than a reed switch like the silent Omrons.

Darn! I just ordered a stock JLX from them last week. Still, I felt it was a substantial improvement over the knock-off that came with my arcade stick. I'd love to hear your impressions on those adjustable switches once you get a hold of it.

[Rastan78]

So I installed the JLX TPML and can post some early impressions. At first I tried it out with the switches in the default position. It feels very smooth and buttery in motion. The leaf switches have no tactile bump like the standard JLF clicky snap action switches as you would expect. Overall it felt like yeah this is a JLF but silent and with a smooth action to it. Very nice indeed but nothing shocking.

Then I put the switches all into the fastest setting. This is where the money's at with this thing. Suddenly it felt so much more responsive. The switches at this setting are on an absolute hair trigger, especially comparing to the previously available Omron silent reed switches (these new ones appear to be produced by Sanwa themselves?). Microtapping playing shmups felt great and inputs seemed instantaneous. At the same time I had zero issues with unintended inputs or the stick hitting opposite directions when slapping back hard to neutral.

One caveat about adjusting the switches on this thing: it's easy to do IF the stick is not installed. It's hard to see and reach the adjustment dials after installation. So my advice would be crank the switches to their most sensitive setting before install. Then roll back from there if you find you get erroneous inputs.

Darn! I just ordered a stock JLX from them last week.

I bet they will eventually offer just the PCB and switches. Could be a long wait though? Haven't seen any concrete info on that.

[Basil]

Good to hear that you like it. I was a bit concerned that those adjustable switches would have just been an adjustment for the sake of marketing, but it sounds like they make a real difference. I imagine that the stiffer base and spring tension over the JLF helps to prevent over correction when it returns to center with the actuation point tightened all the way in. Buttery smoothness sounds nice, but I dunno how I'd feel about giving up the tactile feedback on the stock switches.
At any rate, I appreciate your comments on the TPML. Feels like it's so difficult to find product reviews from real human beings on the internet nowadays.

[Rastan78]

Glad you found the comments useful. Yeah I wouldn't say the adjustable micros are a gimmick. They work as advertised and clearly outperform the Omron silent reed switches. There might even be an argument to be made that they are faster to engage than the classic snappy micros.

https://twitter.com/yukimayucom/status/ ... R1rCw&s=19

In these pics you can zoom in and see how the dial changes the travel of the leaf contacts. Look at just how close the contacts are in the top picture where it's at the most responsive setting.

I imagine that the stiffer base and spring tension over the JLF helps to prevent over correction when it returns to center with the actuation point tightened all the way in.

Yeah another thing I think they got right is the new switches have the right amount of tension. The Omron silents had much less tension in the micro itself than the snap action style ones. So for example on the Seimitsu LSQ-40 (which is essentially a silent LS-40) they compensated by changing to a much higher tension spring on the lever. This works out OK and the stick feels stable and returns to neutral perfectly. The catch is it's fatiguing and slower to operate. You can put an original LS-40 spring on instead, but then it feels loose and sloppy. Then on the silent SEL-70 they stayed with a light spring. It's easy to operate but the return to neutral is janky and inputs in the opposite direction easily.

In other words you can conclude the tension within the micros themselves is important for good feeling and centering, not just the lever spring. I'm guessing bc these are new switches tuned for use in levers they were able to get that tension just right.

[Rastan78]

So this is my first time trying to accurately measure joystick engage. Without going into great detail, I think I came up with a simple but effective method and pegged the engage of the JLX TPML when set to the fastest adjustment (position 1) at 3mm.

No wonder it feels fast. According to kowal's website the good old standard JLF engages at 5.75mm. So almost double. The gold standard for short engage, Seimitsu LS-56 is 4mm. Still a full 1mm farther than the JLX.

A couple more observations:
Sometimes on sanwa sticks the large metal washer that sits under the main body can pop a bit. In spite of the thicker washer and corresponding slot for it in the base it can still pop after all. Not a huge deal but kind of surprising they didn't fix it in spite of engineering the JLX with that in mind. Some people go so far as to super glue the ring if it really bothers them.

It's easier to just remember that turning the dial on the switches to the right is faster engage and to the left slower. The diagrams they put out are a little confusing and hard to remember later if you just want to test out another setting on the fly. They should include or sell a tiny plastic screwdriver to make it easy. Something like this would work if it's small enough: https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-CMHT65 ... 134&sr=8-3

[bigbadboaz]

So, when the switches are set to sensitive and the engage is that short, how much extra throw is left before you hit the gate? It's this useless, excess travel that really bothers me on the JLF and LS-56. Has the slightly larger actuator included on the X made much of a difference here?

[Rastan78]

There's a good amount of excess travel for sure. I was thinking about getting the red Sanwa actuator and trying that. That would reduce the travel a bit more. You could also try doing an aftermarket shortened shaft to reduce throw further.

https://arcadeshock.com/products/ex-gea ... ose-length

There's one that's nice and short but costs as much as an entire joystick lol. Would probably feel great but then you would have to figure out mounting the stick flush to the panel for it to be comfortable.

[bigbadboaz]

I actually like the length of the JLF shaft. Can't wrap my head around why they would design in so much redundant travel: this is something that would be easily solved with tighter gate design.

[Despatche]

The elephant in the room is that leverless is trying to kill all levers. People primarily bother with arcade sticks because of fighting games. The problem is that you cannot realistically use leverless for anything besides fighting games, and that handful of non-fighting games with up-to-jump. Pretty sure trying to play a shmup with leverless would cause aneurysms. This is not a good future and it is going to be a problem.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Can you use a Seimitsu Nobi Bullet Top setup with the new Sanwa JLX TPML joystick (just to mix things up hardware-wise)?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Rastan78]

Can you use a Seimitsu Nobi Bullet Top setup with the new Sanwa JLX TPML joystick (just to mix things up hardware-wise)?

Yep here's a pic of a Nobi top attached to my JLX TPML. Uses the same thread size as the standard Sanwa and Seimitsu ball tops.

Spoiler

The elephant in the room is that leverless is trying to kill all levers.

Yeah it's kind of surprising how many people are ready to call for the demise of sticks and declare leverless all out superior. Sticks are an archaic holdover from arcades. Only boomers stuck in the past would ever use them etc. I think that will relax over time as people calm down.

Remember a similar thing happened back at the time of SFIV when Madcatz sticks came out and a lot of players started using authentic Japanese levers for the first time. Pad players took a lot of crap in those days and were looked down on as "scrubs" in many cases."Hey pad players adapt or get left behind." Well here we are about 15 years later and pads are still going strong. Probably better than ever.

[Taiyaki]

The JLX seems like an improvement over stock JLF but I somehow expect it probably won't top the feeling I get from a JFL with 1mm Kowal actuator, at least based on some of the negatives I'm hearing.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The JLX seems like an improvement over stock JLF but I somehow expect it probably won't top the feeling I get from a JFL with 1mm Kowal actuator, at least based on some of the negatives I'm hearing.

Which negatives, please?

[Taiyaki]

The JLX seems like an improvement over stock JLF but I somehow expect it probably won't top the feeling I get from a JFL with 1mm Kowal actuator, at least based on some of the negatives I'm hearing.

Which negatives, please?

Was referring to the comments made by CFX in the first page:

viewtopic.php?p=1534366#p1534366

[bigbadboaz]

Leverless isn't going to make stick disappear. It's a precision alternative for a niche within the niche. But a large portion of us play stick to play stick, not specifically because at an earlier time it was "the best method for fighting games".

Stick to me, and many others, is associated with the glory days of arcades. Leverless has nothing to do with that, and doesn't carry the implied sensation of motion that MOVING a stick in the intended direction does. The controllers are sterile and boring and I quite frankly can't stand the idea, no matter what objective advantages it brings.

Even IF stick were to be phased out.. there's enough supply out there - and these things last long enough - that people like you and me can easily stock up to where it ain't an issue.

[Rastan78]

Looking at the Evo results, leverless controllers did not have a strong showing in 2023. The controllers used by players making it to the top six across all games broke down like this:

Arcade stick: 28
Pad: 21
Leverless: 9

No event was won by a player using leverless.

[digitron]

Excellent review Rastan thank you for sharing. I prefer Seimitsu 32 & 70's but I have to give this silent JLX a try. I didn't care for the switches in the lsq-40 but would like a quiet lever with tight actuation, this might be the ticket.

[Koston]

JLX and JLF are almost indistinguishable.

Try doing a blind play test between brand new units.

[digitron]

Red actuator, one notch down from the fastest setting, super smooth pivot.. It's actually silent unlike the squeaky switches in the lsq-40. Finally a non-optical silent lever that doesn't suck and I've never been a big jlf fan.

[Rastan78]

Totally agree with you there. Put on the red actuator and it feels perfect. I did a bit of a deep dive making measurements and stuff bc I wanted to set the stick up in a way that would play like an LS-32 for shmups, but with the silence, smoothness and general lack of jank that the JLF-TPML has.

TL;DR the setup for what I'll call the "silent Sanwa LS-32" is red Sanwa actuator, yellow Sanwa spring, TPML switches adjusted to one notch slower than default.

First a few measurements of popular stock joysticks for context and comparison. I cross referenced these with measurements from kowal which led me to believe my method was not too far off the mark.

Sanwa JLF: Travel - 8mm, Engage - 5.75mm
Seimitsu LS-32: Travel - 7mm, Engage - 5mm
Seimitsu LS-40: Travel - 7.5mm, Engage - 4mm
Seimitsu LS-56: Travel - 7.5mm, Engage - 4mm

Note: For measurement and comparison I'm using an old LS-32 with the original Panasonic switches rather than the Omron version produced after 2017.

Comparing these, while all of them are great sticks that work perfectly across many genres, I think there is a little bit of secret sauce with the 32 that explains why it has remained the favorite for shmups for decades. That's shortest overall travel at 7mm and only 2mm extra travel after engaging the switch before hitting the gate. It's enough to provide a little cushion from a harsh feeling of bottoming out without adding a feeling of floaty wasted movement.

Both the 40 and 56 have noticably quicker engage which can be nice, but also have more overall travel than the 32 increasing the gap between engage and hitting the gate by a relatively beefy 1.5mm.

Anyway onto the setup.

Actuator: This was straightforward. The red Sanwa actuator reduces the travel to 7mm. Exactly what we're looking for. I liked the idea of sticking with an official Sanwa part as I'd heard mixed reviews about some of the aftermarket ones. Feels great.

Spring: The yellow Sanwa spring is different because it starts out with less tension in neutral and increases as you move further from center. It's a very firm spring that is much shorter so it doesn't start out compressed much at neutral. This is an ideal spring to use IMO.

Normally I find a firmer spring feels better for large movements eliminating that kind of loosey goosey JLF feel. The tradeoff is when you make small micro movements it feels like the spring is kind of trapping you in neutral, slowing you down and leading to fatigue over time. The yellow spring is the best of both worlds. Firm to make large movements feel stable yet easy to lightly flick the stick out of neutral quickly and easily. On top of that it does a fairly good job of reproducing the tactile increased bump in tension you feel with standard clicky switches. Not quite as crisp of course but only just. And way, way more tactile than optical switches with a stock spring for example.

The Sanwa purple spring does the same thing with a lighter tension and also feels excellent. The yellow one gave a tension closer to the LS-32 and a sharper return to neutral. I would highly recommend trying out either though.

Switch adjustment: With the large red actuator turning down the sensitivity one notch gave the desired 5mm engage maybe slightly less. For comparison setting to one faster than default gave 3.5mm engage. So even faster than an LS-56 or 40. There's room to play around there according to preference but probably best to avoid the absolute fastest or slowest settings.

After all the point here was not to slavishly reproduce the LS-32 down to .001mm. Just to provide a reference point based in actual measurements vs feeling alone and suggest something simple, cheap and that will provide good results.

[digitron]

Just wanted to say AWESOME write-up Rastan, thanks for sharing!

[Koston]

Thanks Rastan, indeed excellent information! Just adding/seconding a few points from my recent tests; I'll do a more thorough write-up on levers later.

Pivot popping: Finally got an LS-32, and got to witness the infamous "pivot popping". I deduce this refers to the stick moving up when pressed harder against the gate. LS-32 indeed does moves quite a lot and easily, but almost every lever I have do the same, just differences how much it moves, and how hard it needs to be pressed to do it. Only ones that don't are a Crown Korean lever - which are likely all immune since they don't have a pivot to begin with - and the Sanwa JLX. It's rock steady. For riding the gate hard, this is an improvement over JLF and most/all other Japanese levers.

Squeaky switches: Got to witness this too, and it was absolutely infuriating - so I fixed it. Microswitches can be opened by lifting the cover. Some models additionally require pushing a tiny plastic clip simultaneously, and if they're on a PCB, they'll need to be desoldered first. A bit of work, but very simple. I used a good few drops of bearing oil (identical: gun oil, sewing machine oil, etc), but admittedly did not research beforehand for optimal lubricant. Either way, effect was so positive, I did it for other levers too. It made many microswitches much quieter, lowering the pitch of their click.

Pivot lubing: Seimitsu sticks seem to come stock with a Lot of Shin-Etsu applied in the pivot cup and opposing slider/spring base (not on the spring side!), so I gave it a go for the JLX too. It made the lever movement feel less "snappy" and more softer, buttery. I like it better like this, but I reckon this is a preferential thing. Easy enough to test and revert if you don't like it. Untested extra tip: If you think a very slippery feeling stick might be good, you could also try mechanical keyboard lubricants in the pivot cup, applied invisibly thin layer - but this will likely cause/increase stick deflection as a side effect. Hori Hayabusa is by default this style, minimized pivot friction and deflection problems.

JLX official mods: These are phenomenal. The different actuators don't only change overall throw, but also engage distance. I only have first JLX model, not the one with adjustable microswitches. On it, red actuator gives it shortest engage and throw of all levers I have, significantly shorter than even LS-40. Currently using the blue one, which makes it feel pretty close to an LS-40. I have not previously seen any aftermarket "oversized" actuators that shortened the engage distance like these do.

The different tension springs are also nice and tension selection is well thought. But as Rastan says, the real game changer are the shorter spring models, providing a variable tension akin to Korean sticks but without the mushy/rubbery feeling. Using the yellow spring feels surprisingly natural, and at least in theory it would make very quick/short movements easier, increasing tension helping to stop travel and return to neutral before hitting the gate. Time will tell how well it works in practice, but I do find it odd why this type of springs have not been more widely available.

Overall the different mod kit actuators and springs make the JLX a very versatile lever. I never liked the JLF (or JLX) much, but a JLX with a blue actuator and a yellow spring is seriously forcing me to reconsider.

[mirkvid]

Great write up! I've been slowly adding more sticks to my collection and swapping them out every month or so. I like the JLX and should really try some different springs and actuators to dial it in.